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Post by winstonoboogie on Jan 7, 2012 20:40:29 GMT -5
I think John was just joking when he said that (however, he did apparently exaggerate his Scouse accent in order to appeal to Americans, who liked it). The real 'Scouser' in The Beatles, of course, was George... Anyway, it's very common here in North American to hear people say things like: "That British band doesn't sing with a British accent, but when they talk, they have one!" My older sister used to say this about Duran Duran in the 80s. I wonder if this is, in part, because American pronunciation tends to round out vowels more than British accents do, and when singing, one has no choice but to round out vowels to scan properly. Well, also, to be perfectly honest, I can't think of a singer that "sounds British" (except for Peter Noone on "Mrs. Brown" and "I'm Henry the Eighth I Am", but that's more likely "jokey" on his part).
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Post by scousette on Jan 7, 2012 22:43:16 GMT -5
English is a pretty exciting language actually. It's certainly robust enough to put up with all the irregularities which are thrown at it . . . . . . there is actually no such thing as standard English . . . You both are absolutely correct. There was a fantastic documentary called The History of English. They started the doc with the Angles, a Germanic people, as the basis for the English language (obviously, they could have gone way way way back). It showed how from the beginning, English was very open to change. As they conquered or were conquered, words changed the language. It was interesting that the Norman Conquest did not impose Norman French on the Angles. William the Conqueror let the Angles keep their language as the language of business and culture, unlike other conquerors would have, but the infusion of Norman French into the English language was a game changer. English, to this day, is still bringing in new words, as people from other countries emigrate to the United States and England. As for "standard" English, yes, that is a slippery thing. It's more of a concept, rather than an absolute. It's kinda like rules in a game or laws. We like to think they are standard, but don't they often get interpreted or spun a certain way? In basketball, for example, we recognize a basketball game wherever we are on the planet, but there are international, NBA, and NCAA rules. There is a "standard" English, but it really isn't as standard as the term would imply. Aside from rules of grammar, "pronunciation" and "accents" were addressed. This documentary, however, did assert that for centuries, English pronunciation from England, because of it's empire, was the "standard." This pronunciation became the American New England accent, which became the standard of how American English should sound (think of that clipped accent by Katherine Hepburn and early radio announcers). As Americans moved west, the standard of how American English should sound changed. Again, think of the news readers in the 50s, 60s and 70s. All pretty much with Midwestern accents (think Johnny Carson, Dick Cavett, Tom Brokaw). As the United States became an "empire" throughout the 20th Century, American English pronunciation became somewhat of a standard, thanks to movies, radio, television, and rock and roll, yes, rock. And, as we moved towards the end of the century, it was California English that became the standard of American English. When I was younger, when I met people from other countries, I could tell that they learned English from a person from England, for their accents were a combination of their country's accent and the British accent. Today, I'm finding more and more foreign English speakers who sound American to my ears. Also, remember, people used to ask the Beatles, "Why do you speak British, but sing American?" (I grant the above is an over simplification of a 12 hour documentary, and I have left out a lot of details and exceptions and have made it sound like the changes in English are linear, rather than swirling.) Where English goes from here, who knows? It is quite possible that in as little as 100 years, English speakers will be as misunderstanding of our English as we are of Olde English. Fo shizzle. sayne, is this the documentary? www.imdb.com/title/tt0198245/plotsummaryThat sort of thing is right up my alley. Sounds fascinating.
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Post by sayne on Jan 8, 2012 11:24:02 GMT -5
Yes! You'll love it. I think what makes the documentary so great is that it is so "romantic." It takes the perceived study of linguistics as boring and turns it into an epic story - and story it is. Schools tend to take the drama out of history and turn it into the driest of concepts, but this doc, in a non-Spielbergian way, is like looking at a time-lapse clip of a flower growing. Enjoy. I'm looking forward to your report.
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Post by beatlesattheirbest on Jan 8, 2012 13:43:10 GMT -5
"And only reese we got the blootchy-koo Ooh she does Yes she does"
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Post by winstonoboogie on Jan 8, 2012 15:56:47 GMT -5
"And only reese we got the blootchy-koo Ooh she does Yes she does" Which song is that?
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Post by beatlesattheirbest on Jan 8, 2012 16:48:49 GMT -5
I Got A Feeling (rooftop version)
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Jan 8, 2012 17:20:33 GMT -5
"And only reese we got the blootchy-koo Ooh she does Yes she does" Which song is that? Is it "Don't Let Me Down"? I am amazed that you can tell exactly what John was saying, even if it is gibberish....
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Post by debjorgo on Jan 8, 2012 18:45:02 GMT -5
Which song is that? Is it "Don't Let Me Down"? I am amazed that you can tell exactly what John was saying, even if it is gibberish.... The first version of Don't Let Me Down from the roof top. It sounds more like "And flow dis veechey gobbly bloochey goobley" to me. Of course, I could be wrong.
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Post by winstonoboogie on Jan 8, 2012 19:33:08 GMT -5
Is it "Don't Let Me Down"? I am amazed that you can tell exactly what John was saying, even if it is gibberish.... The first version of Don't Let Me Down from the roof top. It sounds more like "And flow dis veechey gobbly bloochey goobley" to me. Of course, I could be wrong. Ah, yes! ;D
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2012 4:24:39 GMT -5
I Got A Felling (rooftop version) Not good from a rooftop.....
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Post by ursamajor on Jan 9, 2012 6:18:55 GMT -5
They started the doc with the Angles, a Germanic people, as the basis for the English language That's right. 'Angles' = Anglais = English And Agglia = Anglia = England You can thank the Greeks for that !! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_place_names
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wooltonian
Very Clean
"Football isn't a matter of life and death - it's much more important than that." Bill Shankly.
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Post by wooltonian on Jan 9, 2012 11:12:22 GMT -5
And virtually nobody on earth speaks "The Queen's English" anymore (except maybe the Queen), or wants to. Agree. The clipped, upper-class accent, as used by the Queen and various members of the Royal Family has virtually gone out of existence in England in the past fifty years. A good litmus test for this are BBC national newsreaders, who now use a standardised and completely neutral, 'classless' accent. Compare and contrast with this 1930s spoof newsreel, which demonstrates how Brits view how their forbears used to speak!
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Post by Panther on Jan 9, 2012 18:25:42 GMT -5
Wooltonian, that is fantastic!!! (I'm putting that on Facebook now...)
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Post by sayne on Jan 9, 2012 23:07:02 GMT -5
;D You sound like the father in My Big Fat Greek Wedding.
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Post by ursamajor on Jan 10, 2012 5:49:16 GMT -5
;D You sound like the father in My Big Fat Greek Wedding. We're all related
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Post by ursamajor on Jan 10, 2012 5:52:56 GMT -5
Wooltonian, that is fantastic!!! (I'm putting that on Facebook now...) Read the comments as well
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