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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Apr 5, 2013 13:15:03 GMT -5
Does Paul have the widest vocal range of any rock singer? The video below suggests that he does. Does that make him the best rock singer? He is in my humble opinion. BTW this first video is much easier to see if you take it to full screen.
This video comes with log of the times and description of each example:
00:00 Some light, easy A4s and a C5 from "Band On The Run" which showcases Macca's distinct natural tenor sound. 00:20 More light, easy A4s and B4s from a studio rehearsal of "Maybe I'm Amazed" from 1974- compare this to the studio version! 00:46 Extremely light and easy A4s and B4s (and a brief C#5) from the intro of "Jet", studio rehearsal 1974 1:12 Complete contrast, very gritty and heavy A4s and B4s from the intro of the same song, live 1976 1:31 Long A4 from "Tomorrow" 1:42 A4s from "Baby's in Black" 1:49 Very smooth, easy A4 on the difficult "oo" syllable, from "My Love" 1:59 Extremely easy A4 from "Wanderlust"; George Martin rated this as Paul's greatest vocal performance. 2:09 Bb4 from "Got To Get You Into My Life" 2:13 A4 followed by a Bb4 from "No More Lonely Nights" 2:21 Short B4 from "I'm Looking Through You" 2:24 Savage B4 from "Helter Skelter" 2:31 Gritty B4s from "Old Siam, Sir" 2:38 The famous B4/C5/C#5 roaring from "Oh! Darling" 3:05 More B4/C5/C#5 roaring from "I've Got A Feeling" 3:15 B4s and short D5s from "Junior's Farm" 3:35 Singing around A4 and C5 from "Birthday" 3:55 Strong C5 from "Hello Goodbye" 4:01 Powerful C5s from "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey" 4:22 C5s from "When The Night" 4:46 A great C5 from "The Pound is Sinking" 5:05 A section of ad-libbing from the One Hand Clapping version of "Nineteen Hundred and Eighty Five", with long C5s and some short Eb5s 5:35 The fantastic C5 from "Live and Let Die", still belted in Paul's concerts to this day 5:52 A live version of the same section from "Live and Let Die", from the James Paul McCartney show; not held for as long but better produced and more powerful 6:07 C#5 from "The End" 6:14 Very powerful D5 from "Maybe I'm Amazed" studio rehearsal 1974. In my opinion one of Paul's best ever notes, shame it's from a moderately obscure clip! 6:21 Clean, bright, brief D5s from "You Know My Name (Look Up The Number)", Anthology version 6:31 Strained D5s from "I'm Down" 6:38 The stunning double coda of "Back Seat of My Car", with an explosive Eb5, a brief falsetto G#5 and another D5 7:07 A series of rising "oh yeah!"s culminating in a great E5, from Soily live 1976 7:21 Eb5 touching on E5 from "Tomorrow" 7:28 A few clips from vocal tour de force "Wild Life", with C5s and Eb5s, with a brief touch on an F5 8:40 A section from "Oh Woman Oh Why", a song which spans A2 to E5 and the majority of which is sung in the fifth octave. One of the E5s touches on an F5 9:22 The classic F5 from Hey Jude- the initial note is falsetto but the "yeah" that McCartney sings afterward is full. 9:33 F5 from "Maybe I'm Amazed" 1970- listen to the timbre compared to the one used at 00:20! 9:40 Ad-libbed F5, which tops briefly at F#5, from "Get On The Right Thing" 9:45 F#5s from "Monkberry Moon Delight" 10:03 Another full F#5 from "Helter Skelter" 10:10 A rehearsal of Hey Jude from 1968 where McCartney sings a section an octave higher, topping at a screamy falsetto G5 10:17 Falsetto A5 scream from "Twist and Shout" 10:21 Falsetto Bb5 scream from "Can't Buy Me Love" 10:23 Falsetto B5 scream, immediately following Lennon's scream, from "Money (That's What I Want)" 10:28 McCartney's highest non-modal note found, an A6 from a studio rehearsal of "Oh Darling" 10:33 The "vocal bass" from "I Will," where Macca overdubs the bass part with his voice, bottoming at F2 10:53 Section from "Don't Let It Bring You Down", with G2s and an F2 11:14 The chorus of "Spirits of Ancient Egypt"; in between those light G4s and A4s Macca can be heard echoing "spain" on an E2 in the backing vocal 11:30 Very strong C#2s from "We All Stand Together" 11:40 C2s in the lower vocal from "Light From Your Lighthouse" 12:22 A B1, then humming up from D2, from "Nothing Too Much Just Out of Sight" 12:36 Low bassy speaking from the beginning of "Listen to What The Man Said", McCartney's impression of Leo Nocentelli; reaches an A1 on "alRIGHT". B4s later in the song! 12:43 And finally, from "The Girl Is Mine", a bright and easy A4, followed by a few A2s and then a shockingly powerful and easy A1!
Here is another one with good examples:
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Apr 5, 2013 14:44:09 GMT -5
Does Paul have the widest vocal range of any rock singer? The video below suggests that he does. Does that make him the best rock singer? He is in my humble opinion. BTW this first video is much easier to see if you take it to full screen. This video comes with log of the times and description of each example: 00:00 Some light, easy A4s and a C5 from "Band On The Run" which showcases Macca's distinct natural tenor sound. 00:20 More light, easy A4s and B4s from a studio rehearsal of "Maybe I'm Amazed" from 1974- compare this to the studio version! 00:46 Extremely light and easy A4s and B4s (and a brief C#5) from the intro of "Jet", studio rehearsal 1974 1:12 Complete contrast, very gritty and heavy A4s and B4s from the intro of the same song, live 1976 1:31 Long A4 from "Tomorrow" 1:42 A4s from "Baby's in Black" 1:49 Very smooth, easy A4 on the difficult "oo" syllable, from "My Love" 1:59 Extremely easy A4 from "Wanderlust"; George Martin rated this as Paul's greatest vocal performance. 2:09 Bb4 from "Got To Get You Into My Life" 2:13 A4 followed by a Bb4 from "No More Lonely Nights" 2:21 Short B4 from "I'm Looking Through You" 2:24 Savage B4 from "Helter Skelter" 2:31 Gritty B4s from "Old Siam, Sir" 2:38 The famous B4/C5/C#5 roaring from "Oh! Darling" 3:05 More B4/C5/C#5 roaring from "I've Got A Feeling" 3:15 B4s and short D5s from "Junior's Farm" 3:35 Singing around A4 and C5 from "Birthday" 3:55 Strong C5 from "Hello Goodbye" 4:01 Powerful C5s from "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey" 4:22 C5s from "When The Night" 4:46 A great C5 from "The Pound is Sinking" 5:05 A section of ad-libbing from the One Hand Clapping version of "Nineteen Hundred and Eighty Five", with long C5s and some short Eb5s 5:35 The fantastic C5 from "Live and Let Die", still belted in Paul's concerts to this day 5:52 A live version of the same section from "Live and Let Die", from the James Paul McCartney show; not held for as long but better produced and more powerful 6:07 C#5 from "The End" 6:14 Very powerful D5 from "Maybe I'm Amazed" studio rehearsal 1974. In my opinion one of Paul's best ever notes, shame it's from a moderately obscure clip! 6:21 Clean, bright, brief D5s from "You Know My Name (Look Up The Number)", Anthology version 6:31 Strained D5s from "I'm Down" 6:38 The stunning double coda of "Back Seat of My Car", with an explosive Eb5, a brief falsetto G#5 and another D5 7:07 A series of rising "oh yeah!"s culminating in a great E5, from Soily live 1976 7:21 Eb5 touching on E5 from "Tomorrow" 7:28 A few clips from vocal tour de force "Wild Life", with C5s and Eb5s, with a brief touch on an F5 8:40 A section from "Oh Woman Oh Why", a song which spans A2 to E5 and the majority of which is sung in the fifth octave. One of the E5s touches on an F5 9:22 The classic F5 from Hey Jude- the initial note is falsetto but the "yeah" that McCartney sings afterward is full. 9:33 F5 from "Maybe I'm Amazed" 1970- listen to the timbre compared to the one used at 00:20! 9:40 Ad-libbed F5, which tops briefly at F#5, from "Get On The Right Thing" 9:45 F#5s from "Monkberry Moon Delight" 10:03 Another full F#5 from "Helter Skelter" 10:10 A rehearsal of Hey Jude from 1968 where McCartney sings a section an octave higher, topping at a screamy falsetto G5 10:17 Falsetto A5 scream from "Twist and Shout" 10:21 Falsetto Bb5 scream from "Can't Buy Me Love" 10:23 Falsetto B5 scream, immediately following Lennon's scream, from "Money (That's What I Want)" 10:28 McCartney's highest non-modal note found, an A6 from a studio rehearsal of "Oh Darling" 10:33 The "vocal bass" from "I Will," where Macca overdubs the bass part with his voice, bottoming at F2 10:53 Section from "Don't Let It Bring You Down", with G2s and an F2 11:14 The chorus of "Spirits of Ancient Egypt"; in between those light G4s and A4s Macca can be heard echoing "spain" on an E2 in the backing vocal 11:30 Very strong C#2s from "We All Stand Together" 11:40 C2s in the lower vocal from "Light From Your Lighthouse" 12:22 A B1, then humming up from D2, from "Nothing Too Much Just Out of Sight" 12:36 Low bassy speaking from the beginning of "Listen to What The Man Said", McCartney's impression of Leo Nocentelli; reaches an A1 on "alRIGHT". B4s later in the song! 12:43 And finally, from "The Girl Is Mine", a bright and easy A4, followed by a few A2s and then a shockingly powerful and easy A1! Here is another one with good examples: Range has nothing to do with quality of voice or does it indicate greatness in singing. Paul has/had a beautiful high lyric baritone voice that was perfect for his style of melodic ballad-style music he wrote. And it blended well with George and John in backing harmonies as well. As a rocker though, his voice loses that sweet texture; witness on Long Tall Sally, She's A Woman, Helter Skelter. But as a classical singer, I think Jim Morrison of the Doors had one of the most impressive sounding voices for a rock singer. A deep bass-baritone in texture, rich in overtones, and beautifully produced. A shame his drug use took a toll on his voice and body before it finally killed him.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Apr 5, 2013 15:41:36 GMT -5
Morrison was a great singer espeically in that lower register. While the texture of Paul's voice changes in the lower register rock songs, I think its quite a pleasant and suited for those types of songs. I agree range has nothign to do with quality, but in Paul's case he delivers both quite impressively.
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Post by debjorgo on Apr 5, 2013 18:22:23 GMT -5
Range has nothing to do with quality of voice or does it indicate greatness in singing. Paul has/had a beautiful high lyric baritone voice that was perfect for his style of melodic ballad-style music he wrote. And it blended well with George and John in backing harmonies as well. As a rocker though, his voice loses that sweet texture; witness on Long Tall Sally, She's A Woman, Helter Skelter. But as a classical singer, I think Jim Morrison of the Doors had one of the most impressive sounding voices for a rock singer. A deep bass-baritone in texture, rich in overtones, and beautifully produced. A shame his drug use took a toll on his voice and body before it finally killed him. Huh? The Doors best album was there last album, L.A. Women. Unless you've heard him singing after this album.... Using your logic, I guess drug use makes your voice better and will help you do your best work ever.
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Post by sayne on Apr 5, 2013 21:28:42 GMT -5
My wife was surprised once when she asked me if I could sing like any singer who would that be and I said Paul. She was expecting me to name someone with a great voice like Robert Plant or Elvis or Aretha Franklin or Sam Cooke or Smokey Robinson or any of the other arguably great voices of pop/rock. I told her the reason was not so much because he had a great technical voice, but rather because he could sing (authentically) and type of song. Other than John Lennon, I don't think anyone could legitimately sing a range of songs from Ebony and Ivory to Helter Skelter to Mumbo to I Will to Live and Let Die to Yesterday to Cut Me Some Slack to Little Lamb Dragonfly . . .
Not talking about the quality of the songs, but the diversity. I couldn't picture John Denver doing a Metallica song or Metallica doing a John Denver song. But, I could hear Paul doing a country/bluegrass song and a metal song. I don't know about "note range," but I do know about "style range," which Paul trumps all, except John, for John could go from the silly to the sublime, the mellow to the harsh, as well.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Apr 6, 2013 2:52:10 GMT -5
Range has nothing to do with quality of voice or does it indicate greatness in singing. Paul has/had a beautiful high lyric baritone voice that was perfect for his style of melodic ballad-style music he wrote. And it blended well with George and John in backing harmonies as well. As a rocker though, his voice loses that sweet texture; witness on Long Tall Sally, She's A Woman, Helter Skelter. But as a classical singer, I think Jim Morrison of the Doors had one of the most impressive sounding voices for a rock singer. A deep bass-baritone in texture, rich in overtones, and beautifully produced. A shame his drug use took a toll on his voice and body before it finally killed him. Huh? The Doors best album was there last album, L.A. Women. Unless you've heard him singing after this album.... Using your logic, I guess drug use makes your voice better and will help you do your best work ever. LA Woman is listed as #342 on Rolling Stone's Best 500 albums of all time. It was the second best selling album of the group.. The Doors (1st Album ) is listed at #42 on the same Rolling Stone list. It was their best seller. Again, calling LA Woman their "best" album is your choice. And opinion. And for you it is so. However Jim's voice suffered thru his drug use and weight gain. It did not have the shimmer and clarion overtones in 1970-71 that he had in the early days. Drug use does affect your voice. It can be heard on the last album he did (LA Woman). I am not going to compare my choice, Morrison, with say Paul McCartney, and remark that one was "better" than the other. Morrison's voice impressed me for its beautiful timbre and clarion overtones. Paul's voice did not possess the full richness of sound or the shimmer or natural vibrato often associated with truly great vocal prowness that I heard in Morrison's voice. But Paul still had a great sound for his ballad songs. I stand by my opinion that a wide range does not in and of itself indicate a great voice. It is an indication of excellent musicianship. And Paul had a nice high extension on his voice allowing him to cover the wide range of harmonies so often used in Beatles songs. But when he tackled the harder edged rock songs, his voice lost that shimmer and it sounded rough and reedy (thin), lacking overtones. Morrison's voice held on to its richness and fullness even when singing harder on the heavy songs. Elvis had that same quality as Morrison. But his pill and alcohol use in later years also took its toll on his voice as well. After all that; I loved all thee of them above for what they brought to their music. Great artists, every one of them. Never said one was "better" than another.
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Post by debjorgo on Apr 6, 2013 7:18:45 GMT -5
LA Woman is listed as #342 on Rolling Stone's Best 500 albums of all time. It was the second best selling album of the group.. The Doors (1st Album ) is listed at #42 on the same Rolling Stone list. It was their best seller. Again, calling LA Woman their "best" album is your choice. And opinion. And for you it is so. However Jim's voice suffered thru his drug use and weight gain. It did not have the shimmer and clarion overtones in 1970-71 that he had in the early days. Drug use does affect your voice. It can be heard on the last album he did (LA Woman). Which song on L.A. Woman does Jim's voice not sound just like it does on The Doors album? I'm listening to both albums now. (Riders on the Storm sounds great.) The Doors sold better because it had the bigger single on it (Light My FIre). I personally think L.A. Woman is a much better album than The Doors. If anything would effect Jim's voice it would be the whiskey he had a fondness for. But you'd have to be slamming them down pretty good for it to do damge in 4 short years. Off point a little, I have the 40th Anniversary L.A. Woman album with the bonus disc. There's some really great stuff on it.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Apr 6, 2013 13:52:19 GMT -5
LA Woman is listed as #342 on Rolling Stone's Best 500 albums of all time. It was the second best selling album of the group.. The Doors (1st Album ) is listed at #42 on the same Rolling Stone list. It was their best seller. Again, calling LA Woman their "best" album is your choice. And opinion. And for you it is so. However Jim's voice suffered thru his drug use and weight gain. It did not have the shimmer and clarion overtones in 1970-71 that he had in the early days. Drug use does affect your voice. It can be heard on the last album he did (LA Woman). Which song on L.A. Woman does Jim's voice not sound just like it does on The Doors album? I'm listening to both albums now. (Riders on the Storm sounds great.) The Doors sold better because it had the bigger single on it (Light My FIre). I personally think L.A. Woman is a much better album than The Doors. If anything would effect Jim's voice it would be the whiskey he had a fondness for. But you'd have to be slamming them down pretty good for it to do damge in 4 short years. Off point a little, I have the 40th Anniversary L.A. Woman album with the bonus disc. There's some really great stuff on it. I was under the impression Jim was indeed slamming down the alcohol quite a bit in his later years on top of drug use. The timbre of his voice was different to me in the later years. As I said, less shimmer. He still sang pretty damn good on LA Woman. I love Riders on the Storm. The subtle changes I hear are perhaps not as obvious to you. But that's good. Another example of a singer whose voice lost it's shimmer and richness early on was Frank Sinatra. If you listen to his early recordings, during his band years with Tommy Dorsey and Harry James during WWII and up through about 1950, his voice is pristine, rich, deep, clean, much like Jim Morrison's. Then he went through a career crisis. He drank and smoked excessively. His vocal cords hemorrhaged onstage during a performance at The Copacabana in 1950.Once he re-established himself after winning an Oscar for his appearance in "From Here To Eternity" about 1952, he signed with Capitol Records and his recordings from that point on showed a voice with less richness in timbre and more limited in power. He still made some great recordings for the next 40 years, (he had great musical arrangers produce his recordings) but his voice was never what it was in the early years. But I still think the young Jim Morrison of The Doors had one of the best voices in the Rock era. Better than McCartney. IMO.
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Post by debjorgo on Apr 6, 2013 14:20:07 GMT -5
I don't think i've heard any Sinatra pre-'52. All of his hits were (that I know of) after that. High Hopes, A Very Good Year, Strangers in the Night, New York New York, ...etc.
I bet you can tell old Metalica from new Metalica.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Apr 6, 2013 19:00:05 GMT -5
I don't think i've heard any Sinatra pre-'52. All of his hits were (that I know of) after that. High Hopes, A Very Good Year, Strangers in the Night, New York New York, ...etc. I bet you can tell old Metalica from new Metalica. I couldn't tell you one damn thing about Metalica. Never had an interest in that genre of music. Sorry.
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Post by debjorgo on Apr 6, 2013 20:18:48 GMT -5
I don't think i've heard any Sinatra pre-'52. All of his hits were (that I know of) after that. High Hopes, A Very Good Year, Strangers in the Night, New York New York, ...etc. I bet you can tell old Metalica from new Metalica. I couldn't tell you one damn thing about Metalica. Never had an interest in that genre of music. Sorry. Well, That's sorta the joke. There are people so deep into Metalica that they can go on and on about how old Metalica sucks and new Metalica leaves old Metalica in a trail of dust. Or visa-versa. For the life of me, I can't tell the difference. So, I'm admitting that you might hear something I don't. If you are into the slight nuances in vocal timbre or tone, maybe you hear something I don't. I didn't hear the faults in Paul's voice until it kept getting pointed out here. But now, Washington concert '64, "Really great (breath, breath, breath, breath) to see you here in America, Washington, America (breath, breath, breath, breath) and great to be here (breath, breath) in Washington". Or whatever he said. He should had quit then and there. (Cigarettes really took their toll.)
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Apr 6, 2013 23:14:06 GMT -5
I couldn't tell you one damn thing about Metalica. Never had an interest in that genre of music. Sorry. Well, That's sorta the joke. There are people so deep into Metalica that they can go on and on about how old Metalica sucks and new Metalica leaves old Metalica in a trail of dust. Or visa-versa. For the life of me, I can't tell the difference. So, I'm admitting that you might hear something I don't. If you are into the slight nuances in vocal timbre or tone, maybe you hear something I don't. I didn't hear the faults in Paul's voice until it kept getting pointed out here. But now, Washington concert '64, "Really great (breath, breath, breath, breath) to see you here in America, Washington, America (breath, breath, breath, breath) and great to be here (breath, breath) in Washington". Or whatever he said. He should had quit then and there. (Cigarettes really took their toll.) Watch Paul up close in either old videos of Beatles footage or more recently, Wings, and his current band. Paul had a tendency to push his chin out often when he sang. That means his voice just came up out of his throat into his mouth without moving up the back of his head up into his natural head and nasal resonances. So he cut off those upper resonances. That makes the voice sound thinner and cuts off natural overtones which occur in the voice that has full use of all the chest and head resonating cavities. An overtone occurs when a pitch is sung and you hear as well the natural 5th above the pitch sung (or played) and the octave above that as well, as secondary tones. They are very subtle tones, but they are audible to the ear if you are looking for them and they indicate a healthy voice placed well in its natural resonances. If you can't hear them, the voice sounds thinner, more "flat" sounding and doesn't have a ring or shimmer to it. Doesn't matter whether you sing classical music (like I do) without artificial amplifications (microphones) or with amplification, like pop music. Paul's vocal production usually sounded like he rarely placed his voice high in his head resonance, but rather let it slide up out of his throat into his mouth and then outinto the mic. John, on the other hand sent his voice up into his nasal resonances quite often which gave his voice a buzzy quality. Which he often said he hated when he listened to himself. Jim Morrison sang more like a classical singer, using all his resonances, both chest and head, thereby making his voice sound much richer, fuller, and with very clear overtones. Neither singer ever had voice lessons, so they did what they did on pure instinct. There, you've had you're lesson in vocal production for the day for what its worth! PS Frequent alcohol use, smoking, oversinging, singing without proper rest periods in between, and drug use all contribute to causing premature calcification of the larynx, and to premature damage to the vocal apparatus, thru vocal polyps, nodes, and bleeding around the cords. Rock singers are more susceptible to vocal abuse because most of them have no idea what they are doing technically, nor give a shit about taking care of themselves to promote vocal health. Very few of them ever took voice lessons in their lives. Witness Rod Stewart, Mick Jagger, and Joe Cocker as examples of rock singers who have butchered their voices through bad vocal production. Bob Dylan has never had any idea how to sing properly. Even Adele, the new English pop sensation, developed vocal polyps on her cords, and had to stop singing for awhile, and still today, when I hear her, it worries me the way she tends to "shout" her vocal production, which is very unhealthy singing.
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Post by mikev on Apr 7, 2013 2:01:39 GMT -5
Well, That's sorta the joke. There are people so deep into Metalica that they can go on and on about how old Metalica sucks and new Metalica leaves old Metalica in a trail of dust. Or visa-versa. For the life of me, I can't tell the difference. So, I'm admitting that you might hear something I don't. If you are into the slight nuances in vocal timbre or tone, maybe you hear something I don't. I didn't hear the faults in Paul's voice until it kept getting pointed out here. But now, Washington concert '64, "Really great (breath, breath, breath, breath) to see you here in America, Washington, America (breath, breath, breath, breath) and great to be here (breath, breath) in Washington". Or whatever he said. He should had quit then and there. (Cigarettes really took their toll.) Watch Paul up close in either old videos of Beatles footage or more recently, Wings, and his current band. Paul had a tendency to push his chin out often when he sang. That means his voice just came up out of his throat into his mouth without moving up the back of his head up into his natural head and nasal resonances. So he cut off those upper resonances. That makes the voice sound thinner and cuts off natural overtones which occur in the voice that has full use of all the chest and head resonating cavities. An overtone occurs when a pitch is sung and you hear as well the natural 5th above the pitch sung (or played) and the octave above that as well, as secondary tones. They are very subtle tones, but they are audible to the ear if you are looking for them and they indicate a healthy voice placed well in its natural resonances. If you can't hear them, the voice sounds thinner, more "flat" sounding and doesn't have a ring or shimmer to it. Doesn't matter whether you sing classical music (like I do) without artificial amplifications (microphones) or with amplification, like pop music. Paul's vocal production usually sounded like he rarely placed his voice high in his head resonance, but rather let it slide up out of his throat into his mouth and then outinto the mic. John, on the other hand sent his voice up into his nasal resonances quite often which gave his voice a buzzy quality. Which he often said he hated when he listened to himself. Jim Morrison sang more like a classical singer, using all his resonances, both chest and head, thereby making his voice sound much richer, fuller, and with very clear overtones. Neither singer ever had voice lessons, so they did what they did on pure instinct. There, you've had you're lesson in vocal production for the day for what its worth! PS Frequent alcohol use, smoking, oversinging, singing without proper rest periods in between, and drug use all contribute to causing premature calcification of the larynx, and to premature damage to the vocal apparatus, thru vocal polyps, nodes, and bleeding around the cords. Rock singers are more susceptible to vocal abuse because most of them have no idea what they are doing technically, nor give a shit about taking care of themselves to promote vocal health. Very few of them ever took voice lessons in their lives. Witness Rod Stewart, Mick Jagger, and Joe Cocker as examples of rock singers who have butchered their voices through bad vocal production. Bob Dylan has never had any idea how to sing properly. Even Adele, the new English pop sensation, developed vocal polyps on her cords, and had to stop singing for awhile, and still today, when I hear her, it worries me the way she tends to "shout" her vocal production, which is very unhealthy singing. Or as my vocal coach put it..."to sing through your diaphragm (sp) not your throat". I took about 10 lessons in the mid eighties, then I got a new girlfriend (current wife) and couldn't afford both It still took me a few years to get what she was trying to teach me.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Apr 7, 2013 5:55:15 GMT -5
Or as my vocal coach put it..."to sing through your diaphragm (sp) not your throat". I took about 10 lessons in the mid eighties, then I got a new girlfriend (current wife) and couldn't afford both It still took me a few years to get what she was trying to teach me. My girlfriend the singer always tells me the same thing about using your diaphragm and not the throat. However, I just don't understand this. I don't sing but I have some occasional sore throat issues, and she's always telling me "you shouldn't speak from your throat". I guess I just don't understand how singing or speaking comes from anywhere else, but there you go.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Apr 7, 2013 5:57:39 GMT -5
Does Paul have the widest vocal range of any rock singer? The video below suggests that he does. Does that make him the best rock singer? He is in my humble opinion. You mean in your opinion, you feel Paul is the best rock singer? Wow, I would never have guessed that. (Are you sure you're 'humble' about it?).
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Post by vectisfabber on Apr 7, 2013 7:07:55 GMT -5
I think Paul had by far the most versatile voice (and, perhaps, the widest natural range) but the best voice in rock? Naah. Freddie Mercury, Stevie Marriott, Steve Winwood, Allan Clarke, John Lennon...
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Post by RockoRoll on Apr 7, 2013 7:36:43 GMT -5
I think Paul had by far the most versatile voice (and, perhaps, the widest natural range) but the best voice in rock? Naah. Freddie Mercury, Stevie Marriott, Steve Winwood, Allan Clarke, John Lennon... Come on Vectis, what sort of a Pomy are ya (lol)......You know who has the best Rock voice, and loudest....Johnny Lennon's twin brother Noddy (Holder)....*Laugh* Slade- Cum On Feel The Noize Slade - Mama Weer All Crazee Now (For those who don't who they are.... ..) Slade are a British rock band from Wolverhampton/Walsall. They rose to prominence during the glam rock era of the early 1970s with 17 consecutive top 20 hits and six number ones. The British Hit Singles & Albums names them as the most successful British group of the 1970s based on sales of singles. They were the first act to achieve three singles enter at number one; all six of the band's chart-toppers were penned by Noddy Holder and Jim Lea.....
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Post by vectisfabber on Apr 7, 2013 9:45:02 GMT -5
I wasn't being definitive, rather just starting a list!
To elaborate, there is no-one in pop-rock music whose voice has ever appealed to me more than McCartney's (not the current voice, but the 1960 to 2000-ish one). But I would never put him as the best. Most to my taste, yes, but best - no.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Apr 7, 2013 12:41:09 GMT -5
Or as my vocal coach put it..."to sing through your diaphragm (sp) not your throat". I took about 10 lessons in the mid eighties, then I got a new girlfriend (current wife) and couldn't afford both It still took me a few years to get what she was trying to teach me. My girlfriend the singer always tells me the same thing about using your diaphragm and not the throat. However, I just don't understand this. I don't sing but I have some occasional sore throat issues, and she's always telling me "you shouldn't speak from your throat". I guess I just don't understand how singing or speaking comes from anywhere else, but there you go. The diaphragm is the muscle that contracts and expands under the lungs in order to allow the lungs to fill with air and then pushes the air out of the lungs when you exhale. It has nothing to do with voice placement. When someone says you speak or sing from your throat, it means you are not using your head resonances. Think of John Lennon's voice. It was very nasal. Even when he spoke. John would send his voice up into his nasal resonance when he sang. Try singing thru your nose and you get the same affect. Now, when you feel the "sound" of your voice in your nose try moving the sensation towards the back of your head. But don't let it "fall" into the throat. It takes away some of the nasality, but still you "sense" the voice up high in your head. Your throat remains completely open during this and the voice, though it is produced in the larynx feels like it moves immediately up into your head and you "feel" it there. Your breath support at the same time remains very low, in your loweer abdomen where you sense the diaphragm muscle that works the lungs. Lawyers (if they take Speech classes in college as well) learn to speak with this technique so they can talk for hours on end in courtrooms without getting vocally tired. If you master this in both speaking and singing, your voice does not "feel" like it is in your throat but in your head. This is known as "placing the voice" high in the mask (front of face above the mouth) and head. If you speak and sing with the high placement, your voice does not tire as quickly. If you feel tension in the throat when you speak or sing then that indicates you are not using your natural resonances (Chest, and head) and you will tire vocally quickly and sometimes feel "sore" in the throat because you are using those muscles to support your voice and not the lower abdomen muscles. We have an old axiom we use in classical singing; "Feel" yourself sing, Do NOT LISTEN TO YOURSELF sing. Singing is made up of sensations. None of which are felt in the throat area. Most pop/rock singers never use proper high head resonances, hence they sound often throaty and it sounds like they are shouting when they sing. Feeling hoarse after singing is another sign of bad vocal technique. After I finish singing a 3-4 hour opera, my support muscles are tired, but my voice isn't and I never feel hoarse after singing that long.
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Post by winstonoboogie on Apr 7, 2013 12:55:50 GMT -5
I think Paul had by far the most versatile voice (and, perhaps, the widest natural range) but the best voice in rock? Naah. Freddie Mercury, Stevie Marriott, Steve Winwood, Allan Clarke, John Lennon... Come on Vectis, what sort of a Pomy are ya (lol)......You know who has the best Rock voice, and loudest....Johnny Lennon's twin brother Noddy (Holder)....*Laugh* Slade- Cum On Feel The Noize Slade - Mama Weer All Crazee Now (For those who don't who they are.... ..) Slade are a British rock band from Wolverhampton/Walsall. They rose to prominence during the glam rock era of the early 1970s with 17 consecutive top 20 hits and six number ones. The British Hit Singles & Albums names them as the most successful British group of the 1970s based on sales of singles. They were the first act to achieve three singles enter at number one; all six of the band's chart-toppers were penned by Noddy Holder and Jim Lea..... Wow! I'd heard of Slade, but I didn't know 2 of Quiet Riot's big hits were both Slade covers! Interesting.....did Slade also do "Bang Your Head"?
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Post by winstonoboogie on Apr 7, 2013 13:00:19 GMT -5
But yes, lowbasso, thanks for the singing insights! I remember being in district chorus and the director advising us to sing through the nose and not the mouth - he described a famous Italian opera star at the time whom he did not name but who sang through the throat and whom he predicted would hance have a shortened career (likely referring to Luciano Pavarotti) as opposed to a Spanish opera star who sang through the nose who he predicted would have a nice long career (Placido Domingo). I always remember that.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Apr 8, 2013 15:01:12 GMT -5
I don't know what this talk is about Paul's rock and roll voice. To me Paul had the perfect voice for rock and roll--strong and melodic (Helelujah I Love Her So, Hippy Hippy Shake, I Saw Her Standing There, All My Loving, Can't Buy Me Love, She's A Woman, Long Tall Sally, Kansas City, Day Tripper, Paperback Writer, Got To Get You Into My Life, Sgt. Pepper, Helter Skelter, Lady Madonna, Back In the USSR, Oh! Darling, Golden Slumbers Medley, Maybe I'm Amazed, Too Many People, Oh Woman Oh Why, Get On The Right Thing, Mumbo, Big Barn Bed, 1900 & 85, Let Me Roll It, Rock Show, Soily, Junior's Farm, Beware My Love, Getting Closer, Old Siam Sir, Daytime Nighttime Suffering, So Glad To See You Here, Spin It On, Coming Up (Live), Shake A Hand, What It Is, She Said Yeah, Party and into the present Nothing Too Much Just Out Of Sight and Cut Me Some Slack among many others.
I don't know about ever live performance, but on these recordings his voice is anything but thin and weak--its amazing. I defy you to name anyone who could sing those songs better--maintaining the great melodic subtleties and still delivering a blustering and strong vocal. Who cares if he sings from the throat. Its that throat tearing style that is appealing for those songs. You don't get that when you sing way down in your diaphragm. That is more for Let It Be or Yesterday which he does quite well with too.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Apr 12, 2013 12:58:11 GMT -5
I regret I did not name another rock/pop singer whom I felt had an excellent singing voice along with Jim Morrison of The Doors.
That would have been Harry Nilsson whose beautiful tenor voice had the ability to cross over from such hits as "Without You", and "Everybody's Talkin" to such classics as "Nevertheless I'm In Love With You" and probably the best version of "Over The Rainbow" since Judy Garland sang it in 1939 in Wizard Of Oz. If you've never heard it, check it out. Of course Harry Nilsson was one of The Beatles biggest fans; he recorded a tribute song about them entitled "You Can't Do That" which is a medley of Beatle classics. He was very close to both John and Ringo, especially after the breakup. Wasn't it Harry who provided the opportunity for Paul and John to briefly get back together in LA in the 1970's, jamming in the recording studio, but failing to produce anything new or worthy of preserving? Sadly, his escapades with John in Los Angeles during John's "Lost Weekend" period led to heavy drinking, drugs, and John producing Harry's album "Pussycats", in which Harry ruptured a vocal cord through careless screaming in the recording sessions. Harry's pristine voice was never the same after that episode. It was The Beatles who once proclaimed Harry was one of their favorite American "groups".
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Post by sallyg on Apr 22, 2013 7:14:40 GMT -5
Does Paul have the widest vocal range of any rock singer? The video below suggests that he does. Does that make him the best rock singer? He is in my humble opinion. BTW this first video is much easier to see if you take it to full screen. This video comes with log of the times and description of each example: 00:00 Some light, easy A4s and a C5 from "Band On The Run" which showcases Macca's distinct natural tenor sound. 00:20 More light, easy A4s and B4s from a studio rehearsal of "Maybe I'm Amazed" from 1974- compare this to the studio version! 00:46 Extremely light and easy A4s and B4s (and a brief C#5) from the intro of "Jet", studio rehearsal 1974 1:12 Complete contrast, very gritty and heavy A4s and B4s from the intro of the same song, live 1976 1:31 Long A4 from "Tomorrow" 1:42 A4s from "Baby's in Black" 1:49 Very smooth, easy A4 on the difficult "oo" syllable, from "My Love" 1:59 Extremely easy A4 from "Wanderlust"; George Martin rated this as Paul's greatest vocal performance. 2:09 Bb4 from "Got To Get You Into My Life" 2:13 A4 followed by a Bb4 from "No More Lonely Nights" 2:21 Short B4 from "I'm Looking Through You" 2:24 Savage B4 from "Helter Skelter" 2:31 Gritty B4s from "Old Siam, Sir" 2:38 The famous B4/C5/C#5 roaring from "Oh! Darling" 3:05 More B4/C5/C#5 roaring from "I've Got A Feeling" 3:15 B4s and short D5s from "Junior's Farm" 3:35 Singing around A4 and C5 from "Birthday" 3:55 Strong C5 from "Hello Goodbye" 4:01 Powerful C5s from "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey" 4:22 C5s from "When The Night" 4:46 A great C5 from "The Pound is Sinking" 5:05 A section of ad-libbing from the One Hand Clapping version of "Nineteen Hundred and Eighty Five", with long C5s and some short Eb5s 5:35 The fantastic C5 from "Live and Let Die", still belted in Paul's concerts to this day 5:52 A live version of the same section from "Live and Let Die", from the James Paul McCartney show; not held for as long but better produced and more powerful 6:07 C#5 from "The End" 6:14 Very powerful D5 from "Maybe I'm Amazed" studio rehearsal 1974. In my opinion one of Paul's best ever notes, shame it's from a moderately obscure clip! 6:21 Clean, bright, brief D5s from "You Know My Name (Look Up The Number)", Anthology version 6:31 Strained D5s from "I'm Down" 6:38 The stunning double coda of "Back Seat of My Car", with an explosive Eb5, a brief falsetto G#5 and another D5 7:07 A series of rising "oh yeah!"s culminating in a great E5, from Soily live 1976 7:21 Eb5 touching on E5 from "Tomorrow" 7:28 A few clips from vocal tour de force "Wild Life", with C5s and Eb5s, with a brief touch on an F5 8:40 A section from "Oh Woman Oh Why", a song which spans A2 to E5 and the majority of which is sung in the fifth octave. One of the E5s touches on an F5 9:22 The classic F5 from Hey Jude- the initial note is falsetto but the "yeah" that McCartney sings afterward is full. 9:33 F5 from "Maybe I'm Amazed" 1970- listen to the timbre compared to the one used at 00:20! 9:40 Ad-libbed F5, which tops briefly at F#5, from "Get On The Right Thing" 9:45 F#5s from "Monkberry Moon Delight" 10:03 Another full F#5 from "Helter Skelter" 10:10 A rehearsal of Hey Jude from 1968 where McCartney sings a section an octave higher, topping at a screamy falsetto G5 10:17 Falsetto A5 scream from "Twist and Shout" 10:21 Falsetto Bb5 scream from "Can't Buy Me Love" 10:23 Falsetto B5 scream, immediately following Lennon's scream, from "Money (That's What I Want)" 10:28 McCartney's highest non-modal note found, an A6 from a studio rehearsal of "Oh Darling" 10:33 The "vocal bass" from "I Will," where Macca overdubs the bass part with his voice, bottoming at F2 10:53 Section from "Don't Let It Bring You Down", with G2s and an F2 11:14 The chorus of "Spirits of Ancient Egypt"; in between those light G4s and A4s Macca can be heard echoing "spain" on an E2 in the backing vocal 11:30 Very strong C#2s from "We All Stand Together" 11:40 C2s in the lower vocal from "Light From Your Lighthouse" 12:22 A B1, then humming up from D2, from "Nothing Too Much Just Out of Sight" 12:36 Low bassy speaking from the beginning of "Listen to What The Man Said", McCartney's impression of Leo Nocentelli; reaches an A1 on "alRIGHT". B4s later in the song! 12:43 And finally, from "The Girl Is Mine", a bright and easy A4, followed by a few A2s and then a shockingly powerful and easy A1! Here is another one with good examples: Yes, Paul's vocal range is amazing. Another song which shows his vocal range especially in the lower register is Mr. Bellamy
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Post by Panther on Apr 23, 2013 7:17:27 GMT -5
I would certainly agree that Paul at his peak (maybe 1965 to 1975 as a vocalist) was one of the great rock/pop singers I've heard. As others have mentioned, his ability to sing any genre -- seemingly effortlessly -- was nearly unbelievable. Some good examples have been mentioned, but as another, remember that Paul sang both "Yesterday" and "I'm Down" in the same session, within an hour or so of one another!
I like both his softer, purer voice and his growling 'rocking' voice. And there are all sorts of shades in between -- he doesn't have only 2 gears. Lennon was much the same in that he could just rip through anything that came up, vocally. Paul certainly had a larger range than John, but I think I (slightly) prefer John's voice in the 'rocker' mode. A bit more soulful.
An interesting mention above of both Jim Morrison and Frank Sinatra -- interesting, in that those two have actually merited comparison before. Morrison reportedly learned a lot of his style from listening to Sinatra, and Sinatra allegedly said something like, "Bastard stole my style" when he heard 'Light My Fire' on the radio. Of course, Jim could scream like nobody else and could do ballsy rock vocals, which Sinatra (probably) couldn't. Morrison had a fairly pathetic range, but he was very good at what he did, within his vocal comfort zone.
(Just to chip in, I don't like L.A. Woman at all, aside from the two or three famous tunes. I agree that his voice sounds totally shot on that record.)
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Post by mikev on Apr 23, 2013 8:12:02 GMT -5
I would certainly agree that Paul at his peak (maybe 1965 to 1975 as a vocalist) was one of the great rock/pop singers I've heard. As others have mentioned, his ability to sing any genre -- seemingly effortlessly -- was nearly unbelievable. Some good examples have been mentioned, but as another, remember that Paul sang both "Yesterday" and "I'm Down" in the same session, within an hour or so of one another! I like both his softer, purer voice and his growling 'rocking' voice. And there are all sorts of shades in between -- he doesn't have only 2 gears. Lennon was much the same in that he could just rip through anything that came up, vocally. Paul certainly had a larger range than John, but I think I (slightly) prefer John's voice in the 'rocker' mode. A bit more soulful. An interesting mention above of both Jim Morrison and Frank Sinatra -- interesting, in that those two have actually merited comparison before. Morrison reportedly learned a lot of his style from listening to Sinatra, and Sinatra allegedly said something like, "Bastard stole my style" when he heard 'Light My Fire' on the radio. Of course, Jim could scream like nobody else and could do ballsy rock vocals, which Sinatra (probably) couldn't. Morrison had a fairly pathetic range, but he was very good at what he did, within his vocal comfort zone. (Just to chip in, I don't like L.A. Woman at all, aside from the two or three famous tunes. I agree that his voice sounds totally shot on that record.) On another web board many years ago, we had a long running thread if the Beatles broke up in 1963, the British Invasion was tempered by the likes of Gerry and the Pacemakers, and where Jim Morrison became the youngest member of the Rat Pack, and crooned on Sullivan!! Jagger also became an Englebird Whatshisdink crooner!
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