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Post by coachbk on Dec 6, 2014 15:10:01 GMT -5
I was reading an article in the newspaper last weekend about worst Christmas songs ever. The writer called "Wonderful Christmastime" not only the worst Christmas song ever, but the worst song ever. I thought that quite extreme. I mean, it isn't a great song-certainly not one of Paul's best, but it is pleasant and catchy enough. I find myself humming along when it comes on the radio and I never change the station away from it. So that got me to thinking "that guy is not a true Paul McCartney fan!" I've used that statement before concerning others, including posters on this board (panther and debjorgo come to mind). Anyway here's my checklist for letting you know if you are not a true Paul McCartney fan (and I'm just talking music-I'm not getting into personality, politics, ego, etc.) YOU ARE NOT A TRUE PAUL MCCARTNEY FAN IF... 1. You think "Wonderful Christmastime" is one of the worst Christmas songs ever. 2. You think more than one of these hit singles is bad: "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey", "Let Em In", "Silly Love Songs", and "Ebony And Ivory". (these are the hit singles I hear most often unjustly maligned. I like them all) 3. You think more than one of these love songs is bad: "Warm And Beautiful", "I'm Carrying", "One Of These Days", or "Little Willow". (again I like them all) 4. You think BAND ON THE RUN was either Paul's first good solo album or his last good solo album. (BAND ON THE RUN is great, but so are RAM, TUG OF WAR, and FLAMING PIE). 5. You think WILD LIFE has no good songs ("Tomorrow" at the very least is excellent) 6. You don't think Paul has any solo songs as good as his best Beatles songs ("Maybe I'm Amazed", "Calico Skies", "Wanderlust", and "The End Of The End" all easily stack up with Paul's greatest songs) 7. You think the fact that the lyrics to "Jet" don't make any sense make it a "bad song". 8. You find more than one of these songs "embarrassing": "We All Stand Together", "Mull Of Kintyre", "Hope Of Deliverance", "Put It There" "Smile Away" "Mrs. Vanderbilt" or "English Tea". (again I like them all) 9. You don't think any of these songs rock" "Mumbo", "Rock Show", "Junior's Farm", "Get Out Of My Way", "I've Had Enough", "Beware My Love" and "Nod Your Head" (guess what I think they all "rock"!) 10. You haven't heard of at least 80% of the songs I mentioned here! Notice I'm allowing the leeway for individuals to have one song they don't like in number 2,3, and 8 above. What are some criteria you would put on this list?
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Post by stavros on Dec 6, 2014 16:44:13 GMT -5
Hello coach. Well I'll bite.
1. You think "Wonderful Christmastime" is one of the worst Christmas songs ever.
I actually like it's cheesy 70s synth sound and the light mood of the record as that's what Christmases are all about.
2. You think more than one of these hit singles is bad: "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey", "Let Em In", "Silly Love Songs", and "Ebony And Ivory". (these are the hit singles I hear most often unjustly maligned. I like them all)
Uncle Albert is great, the other 3 not so much. "Let Em In" sort of OK, "Silly Love Songs" has a great bassline but both are sort of wimpy pop songs that go nowhere. As for "Ebony and Ivory" well it is another of those antiseptic, "politically correct", pop songs that people who don't normally buy records send to No.1 in the charts.
3. You think more than one of these love songs is bad: "Warm And Beautiful", "I'm Carrying", "One Of These Days", or "Little Willow". (again I like them all)
They are all songs I find quite listenable and I think if they'd appeared on the White Album at least one of them would be considered a hidden Beatles 'gem'.
4. You think BAND ON THE RUN was either Paul's first good solo album or his last good solo album. (BAND ON THE RUN is great, but so are RAM, TUG OF WAR, and FLAMING PIE).
Well I always sort of liked Ram. But I didn't own all of Paul's albums (to date) until the mid-1990s and Tug of War sounds a bit dated to my ears.
5. You think WILD LIFE has no good songs ("Tomorrow" at the very least is excellent)
"Wild Life" is a little rough but the title track is actually pretty cool and "Dear Friend" is a hauntingly charged song with a very open message to a dear friend
6. You don't think Paul has any solo songs as good as his best Beatles songs ("Maybe I'm Amazed", "Calico Skies", "Wanderlust", and "The End Of The End" all easily stack up with Paul's greatest songs)
I could add a lot more. The obvious like "Band on the Run" and "Live and Let Die" or the less so like "London Town" or even "Baby's Request".
7. You think the fact that the lyrics to "Jet" don't make any sense make it a "bad song".
The lyric of a song is not the first thing that hits me. Although a great lyric can turn a good song into a great song. So I tend to like "Jet" as much as I do "Come Together" which has equally nonsensical lyrics.
8. You find more than one of these songs "embarrassing": "We All Stand Together", "Mull Of Kintyre", "Hope Of Deliverance", "Put It There" "Smile Away" "Mrs. Vanderbilt" or "English Tea". (again I like them all)
I always wonder why "We All Stand Together" is never equated as one of those fun songs for kids (it was for a Rupert Bear movie wasn't it?) like "Yellow Submarine". But that just shows a sort of snobbery towards the Beatles against their solo stuff and perhaps how cynical we'd become by the 1980s. "Mull of Kintyre" was number one in the UK for a fair proportion of my childhood and so I can tolerate it only occasionally these days. "Hope of Deliverance" is the one track there I least like, perhaps because I just couldn't ever get into "Off the Ground" at any level. Maybe I should try to revise that opinion one day?
9. You don't think any of these songs rock" "Mumbo", "Rock Show", "Junior's Farm", "Get Out Of My Way", "I've Had Enough", "Beware My Love" and "Nod Your Head" (guess what I think they all "rock"!)
"Get Out of My Way" is the one on that list I would say I least liked because of my answer to question 8. although I find "Nod Your Head" second best to the Wings like "Ony Mama Knows" on Memory Almost Full (that album badly needs re-mastering too!).
10. You haven't heard of at least 80% of the songs I mentioned here!
As if!
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Post by coachbk on Dec 6, 2014 17:08:40 GMT -5
Stavros,
Funny to hear someone saying they heard "Mull Of Kintyre" as a #1 hit. I have to this day never heard it on the radio other than on McCartney/Beatles specials. We got the rocker "Girls School" as the single here in the US, which was an OK rocker (Paul rocks again) but not as good as "Mull Of Kintyre".
I also liked your comments on "We All Stand Together". Funny though that you talk about people being too cynical, then are completely cynical yourself about the great "Ebony And Ivory"!
Loved your comments on the ballads and if they had been on THE WHITE ALBUM!
And yes I could add a lot more to #6 including one you mentioned ("Band On The Run"). Others that come to mind immediately are "This One", "1985", "Somedays", "Back Seat Of My Car", and "Tug Of War".
Oh and by the way Stavros I think you did well enough to qualify as a true McCartney fan!
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Post by debjorgo on Dec 6, 2014 18:18:45 GMT -5
YOU ARE NOT A TRUE PAUL MCCARTNEY FAN IF... First of all, your premise of listing me as an example of someone not a true McCartney fan proves this list is meaningless.
1. You think "Wonderful Christmastime" is one of the worst Christmas songs ever. My favorite Christmas song of all time. Other than Elvis' Blue Christmas and Lennon's Happy Christmas, I can do without Christmas music altogether. Especially when it starts the day after Thanksgiving. I look forward to hearing Wonderful Christmastime though.
2. You think more than one of these hit singles is bad: "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey", "Let Em In", "Silly Love Songs", and "Ebony And Ivory". (these are the hit singles I hear most often unjustly maligned. I like them all) I like them all. Let 'em In is the weakest. I remember when Speed of Sound came out, the Classic Rock station played the album before listening to it. Wings were on a high with classic rock after the last too albums. Let 'em In started the album off. I could hear the disappointment in the deejays voices. It was hard for me to recover from that. I was disappointed too. But I've grown to like it okay. I still think it was a bad choice to start the album with.
3. You think more than one of these love songs is bad: "Warm And Beautiful", "I'm Carrying", "One Of These Days", or "Little Willow". (again I like them all) I think Little Willow is as great as any Beatle song. I like One of These Days until the "And I need love, Yeah I need love" line. He reminds me of Beaver Cleaver for some reason. No. I don't like the other too.
4. You think BAND ON THE RUN was either Paul's first good solo album or his last good solo album. (BAND ON THE RUN is great, but so are RAM, TUG OF WAR, and FLAMING PIE). McCartney was Paul's first great album. New is the last. Every album has something I like a lot. The 3 you mention are up there on my list.
5. You think WILD LIFE has no good songs ("Tomorrow" at the very least is excellent) Wild Life is a great album. I love about half of it. That's good enough for me.
6. You don't think Paul has any solo songs as good as his best Beatles songs ("Maybe I'm Amazed", "Calico Skies", "Wanderlust", and "The End Of The End" all easily stack up with Paul's greatest songs) My list is long for this. The songs you list, sans The End of the End. It never grew on me. I liked That Was Me much better. The idea that the guy on the cover of Meet the Beatles, Sgt Pepper, Let it Be, Ram, Band on the Run, McCartney II, and the guy on stage these days is all the same man, is staggering to me.
7. You think the fact that the lyrics to "Jet" don't make any sense make it a "bad song". One of Paul's best. Like Martha, My Dear, not about a dog, even though he uses the dog's name. Jet's about climbing on the back and taking a ride in the sky. It makes complete sense to me.
8. You find more than one of these songs "embarrassing": "We All Stand Together", "Mull Of Kintyre", "Hope Of Deliverance", "Put It There" "Smile Away" "Mrs. Vanderbilt" or "English Tea". (again I like them all) He has some embarrassing songs but these aren't them. More than half of these are in my top songs.
9. You don't think any of these songs rock" "Mumbo", "Rock Show", "Junior's Farm", "Get Out Of My Way", "I've Had Enough", "Beware My Love" and "Nod Your Head" (guess what I think they all "rock"!) I don't care much for Nod Your Head but the rest are very much in my top songs.
10. You haven't heard of at least 80% of the songs I mentioned here! How would I not know these songs? They are all released.
Paul McCartney is my all time favorite performer. No one else, even Lennon, comes close. I have everything music-wise Paul has put out. (Well, not the classical stuff.)
I'll bet using your list, RTP and you are the only true McCartney fans.
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Post by sayne on Dec 6, 2014 18:29:49 GMT -5
Just checking on the rules. Are we to look at all 10 qualifiers to determine if we're a true fan, or will just one of the 10 determine our true fandom?
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Post by stavros on Dec 6, 2014 18:42:51 GMT -5
I am cynical about "Ebony and Ivory" for a reason as much as I am about "Say,Say,Say". John Lennon, cruelly taken from us, had hogged the limelight even in death with a string of posthumous hits.
Once the grieving was over I think Paul felt the need to assert himself again and produce a mega-hit. But he also felt he needed the help of someone else and came up with, what for me is a fairly insipid song in "Ebony and Ivory". To balance that out I also think the same of "Give Peace a Chance". Both are bland generic slogan songs that nevertheless appeal to people who want to appear to be jumping on the right bandwagon.
Oh and "Mull of Kintyre" was only number one here for about 9 weeks across late 1977 and early 1978 but it felt like a lot longer when you are a young kid. Of course in those days singles tended to rise up the charts and then slowly fade as well.
I do like "Flowers in the Dirt" by the way. The production on that album is second to none. I think Elvis Costello also teased Paul back into writing the type of song we associated him with. Before that Paul seemed to have lost his way for the majority of the 1980s.
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Post by stavros on Dec 6, 2014 18:47:57 GMT -5
3. ........... I like One of These Days until the "And I need love, Yeah I need love" line. He reminds me of Beaver Cleaver for some reason. Those are part of the lyrics to "Waterfalls" not "One of These Days".
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Post by debjorgo on Dec 6, 2014 18:57:01 GMT -5
3. ........... I like One of These Days until the "And I need love, Yeah I need love" line. He reminds me of Beaver Cleaver for some reason. Those are part of the lyrics to "Waterfalls" not "One of These Days". Let's see " One of these days when my feet are on the ground, I'm going to look around and see. See what's mine and see what's there. And breathe fresh air ever after. And I need love, and I need love...." You right. I started to play it before I posted. I wasn't sure it was the right song. I couldn't think of the Waterfalls line. I trusted my memory. One of These Days is marginally better than Waterfalls. I love Nobody Knows from the album and the instrumentals.
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kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
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Post by kc on Dec 7, 2014 0:02:23 GMT -5
I think I am compliant with most of your criteria, coachbk, but I already know I am a "true" Paul McCartney fan. I have followed his career for decades now; bought most of his recorded output, sometimes several times over; looked forward to new releases months ahead of their availability; defended his music against others, etc.
On the other hand, there is plenty of his work I either don't particularly like, or think could have been made better somehow. I don't think that actually matters. Overall, I have highly enjoyed what he has presented us with over the years. I am a fan.
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Post by John S. Damm on Dec 7, 2014 0:54:21 GMT -5
I am very careful, and actually avoid, questioning anyone's fanship of Paul. As the author of The JSD Postulate, I have been early on ignored, mocked, excluded and even spit upon, and by Macca Mad Hatters no less! How dare I love and praise Paul's first four solo albums when Conventional Wisdom decrees that Paul wasn't worth a shit until Band On The Run. I love, cherish and defend Paul's first four solo albums more than even RTP yet I was called a heretic, "not a real Paul fan." Of course, The Postulate is now widely accepted and those Macca Mad Hatters extend their hands to me and I am a good sport. It is better to win them over than stick out my tongue and say, "I told you so!" So I don't know man, it is a fun list Coach but I don't want to diss any fan out there who happens to fit into all of those categories yet still considers himself/herself a Paul fan.
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Post by vectisfabber on Dec 7, 2014 6:16:35 GMT -5
Oh, you are definitely a true Paul McCartney fan. But that Postulate thing, man.....
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 6:40:42 GMT -5
I agree, Paul's solo career didn't really fire a shot until Band On The Run. Great album that one, a lot more consistent than any of the Postoilet group of albums that came before it, maybe he just missed John in the Postoilet era...
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Post by coachbk on Dec 7, 2014 21:14:10 GMT -5
[quote author=" debjorgo" I'll bet using your list, RTP and you are the only true McCartney fans. [/quote] LOL Realize this list is pretty arbitrary and it is meant (as is most all I post) to be taken lightheartedly and as a means to get a good discussion going (which is has). Now I wonder what an RTP list of criteria would look like!
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Post by debjorgo on Dec 7, 2014 22:35:39 GMT -5
I'll bet using your list, RTP and you are the only true McCartney fans. LOL Realize this list is pretty arbitrary and it is meant (as is most all I post) to be taken lightheartedly and as a means to get a good discussion going (which is has). Now I wonder what an RTP list of criteria would look like! I think pepper would get a passing grade on anyone's list. (Where is he anyway?) There should be a point system attached to this. I'd make up a lot for the points I lose on the Young and Beautiful part of the list.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 8, 2014 8:10:55 GMT -5
I pass all 10 tests.
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cosmo
Very Clean
Posts: 264
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Post by cosmo on Dec 8, 2014 17:57:27 GMT -5
I am a Paul fan but I will admit to pretty much HATING Wonderful Christmastime - for the lyrics (the melody is ok and catchy). To wit : "the choir of children sing their song/ they've practiced all year long/Ding dong Ding dong" Really? It took them one whole YEAR to practice singing "Ding dong"?? Please, someone, tell me that all these years I've been hearing the words wrong. My husband tells me "Ding dong" is not their song, but I think he's a dingdong, and it is. I can't get past that line, no matter how acceptable the rest of the song may be.
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kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
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Post by kc on Dec 8, 2014 19:24:27 GMT -5
Really? It took them one whole YEAR to practice singing "Ding dong"?? Please, sometime, tell me that all these years I've been hearing the words wrong. My husband tells me "Ding dong" is not their song, but I think he's a dingdong, and it is.
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Post by coachbk on Dec 8, 2014 21:27:44 GMT -5
I am a Paul fan but I will admit to pretty much HATING Wonderful Christmastime - for the lyrics (the melody is ok and catchy). To wit : "the choir of children sing their song/ they've practiced all year long/Ding dong Ding dong" Really? It took them one whole YEAR to practice singing "Ding dong"?? Please, someone, tell me that all these years I've been hearing the words wrong. My husband tells me "Ding dong" is not their song, but I think he's a dingdong, and it is. I can't get past that line, no matter how acceptable the rest of the song may be. Or is that Paul's tribute to George's hit "Ding Dong Ding Dong"?
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 9, 2014 7:37:35 GMT -5
I am a Paul fan but I will admit to pretty much HATING Wonderful Christmastime - for the lyrics (the melody is ok and catchy). To wit : "the choir of children sing their song/ they've practiced all year long/Ding dong Ding dong" Really? It took them one whole YEAR to practice singing "Ding dong"?? Please, someone, tell me that all these years I've been hearing the words wrong. My husband tells me "Ding dong" is not their song, but I think he's a dingdong, and it is. I can't get past that line, no matter how acceptable the rest of the song may be. I have never thought the kids were literally singing "Ding Dong, Ding Dong" as their actual song. The "ding donging" always struck me as sort of a metaphor indicating ANY Christmas song... not that this is literally their song. Or, if you prefer, perhaps it's only PART of their song. This is certainly a preferable way to approach this song this year and in the future... unless, of course, you WANT to go on hating it.
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Post by vectisfabber on Dec 9, 2014 9:42:44 GMT -5
1. You think "Wonderful Christmastime" is one of the worst Christmas songs ever. It's fine. 2. You think more than one of these hit singles is bad: "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey", "Let Em In", "Silly Love Songs", and "Ebony And Ivory". (these are the hit singles I hear most often unjustly maligned. I like them all)They are fine. I don't much care for Let 'Em In, personally. 3. You think more than one of these love songs is bad: "Warm And Beautiful", "I'm Carrying", "One Of These Days", or "Little Willow". (again I like them all)They are fine. Little Willow is a classic. 4. You think BAND ON THE RUN was either Paul's first good solo album or his last good solo album. (BAND ON THE RUN is great, but so are RAM, TUG OF WAR, and FLAMING PIE). I think it was his first really good solo album. 5. You think WILD LIFE has no good songs ("Tomorrow" at the very least is excellent)It has some good songs, very badly performed and recorded. 6. You don't think Paul has any solo songs as good as his best Beatles songs ("Maybe I'm Amazed", "Calico Skies", "Wanderlust", and "The End Of The End" all easily stack up with Paul's greatest songs)His best solo songs are as good as his best Beatles songs. 7. You think the fact that the lyrics to "Jet" don't make any sense make it a "bad song". It's fine. 8. You find more than one of these songs "embarrassing": "We All Stand Together", "Mull Of Kintyre", "Hope Of Deliverance", "Put It There" "Smile Away" "Mrs. Vanderbilt" or "English Tea". (again I like them all) They're fine. 9. You don't think any of these songs rock" "Mumbo", "Rock Show", "Junior's Farm", "Get Out Of My Way", "I've Had Enough", "Beware My Love" and "Nod Your Head" (guess what I think they all "rock"!) I don't care that much for the rock end of the spectrum. Mumbo and Nod Your Head are shite. 10. You haven't heard of at least 80% of the songs I mentioned here! I've not only heard of 100% of the songs mentioned here, I've heard 100% of the songs mentioned here!
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Post by John S. Damm on Dec 9, 2014 11:42:46 GMT -5
Hey, has it been mentioned here yet that "Wonderful Xastime" is being used this holiday season in Best Buy commercials? It is a cover but that is high profile.
"Wonderful Xmastime" has grown on me but it does sound more like a commercial jingle than a X-mas classic.
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Post by debjorgo on Dec 9, 2014 18:44:21 GMT -5
I am a Paul fan but I will admit to pretty much HATING Wonderful Christmastime - for the lyrics (the melody is ok and catchy). To wit : "the choir of children sing their song/ they've practiced all year long/Ding dong Ding dong" Really? It took them one whole YEAR to practice singing "Ding dong"?? Please, someone, tell me that all these years I've been hearing the words wrong. My husband tells me "Ding dong" is not their song, but I think he's a dingdong, and it is. I can't get past that line, no matter how acceptable the rest of the song may be. And what about that Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer song? One minute it's like "...so bright, you could even say it glowed". It didn't really glow but you could almost say it did. And then on a foggy Christmas Eve, he's guiding the sleigh with it? Come on! Really?! Who wrote that crap?
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cosmo
Very Clean
Posts: 264
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Post by cosmo on Dec 10, 2014 0:33:21 GMT -5
Haha! Ok, I get y'all's point, but just because there are OTHER songs with crappy lyrics, it doesn't mean I give Paul a pass on this one. And it's not like I WANT to hate it, iI's just that I have a visceral reaction whenever it comes on. My ears protest. I heard the cover in Bed, Bath, and Beyond the other day. For a cover of a song that I don't like, I thought it was pretty good! And I AM a Paul fan because I think "Monkberry Moon Delight" is a great song!
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Post by vectisfabber on Dec 10, 2014 4:34:02 GMT -5
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