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Post by superhans on Jul 23, 2008 12:57:04 GMT -5
For the first time in absolutely ages yesterday, I played Sergeant Pepper. I wasn't really expecting to like it that much. I keep hearing how it's over-rated; how other Beatles albums are far better; how it's the epitome of over-blown psychedelia, but not much else... ...and d'you know what? Despite all the bad press, I liked it loads more than I expected to. Side One (of the original vinyl) is totally strong. The only track I stand slightly back from is '...leaving home', because it's a bit....well.... cheesy, but it sort of 'fits', so I'm happy to go easy on it. Side two is patchier. It could've done with the inclusion of SFF / PL (those two tracks stand like orphan twins on the execrable 'Magical Mystery Tour' CD.) Having said that, side two is fairily light and breezy and, at worst, inoffensive -- climaxing in one of the greatest tunes of the C.20, 'A day in the life'. So, all in all, a great album then. So why the bad press???Would it have anything to do with its close assocaition with the that progeny of the Devil, the Concept Album? You start with the innocent, unassuming 'Pepper' and you end up several years later with 'Tommy', 'The rise and fall of ZS and the spiders from Mars', 'The lamb lies down on Broadway' (Genesis), 'Tales from Topographic Oceans' (Yes) and 'The Wall'. SPLHCB is damned by association and tainted by its bastard offspring. Hell, it invented 1970s excess and bluster. Any song you may listen to that lasts over seven minutes is directly due to that album. This is a fact. McCartney spent most of the next five years trying to get away from the whole 'Pepper' thing. 'White Album' and the 'Get Back' project is 'Pepper-antithesis'. Don't even start me on 'McCartney' and 'Wild Life' (although I really dig 'Wild Life' - great party music). ...so even Pepper's creator walked away from it. So, I suppose all I'm saying is....just give Sergeant Pepper a fair shake. Actually, song-by-song it's really good. It's up there with 'Revolver' and probably better than the White Ablum and Abbey Road (which is Sgt. Pepper 'lite') What do you think??
Superhans. -- Hamburg.
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Post by superhans on Jul 23, 2008 13:02:56 GMT -5
Entschuldigung....side two of 'Pepper' is "light and breezy" with the obvious exception of 'within you without you' which is, of course, the polar opposite!! WYWY - light and breezy...HUH??
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Post by johnpaulharstar on Jul 23, 2008 14:13:04 GMT -5
I listened to Sgt. Pepper all the way through on my i-pod the other day and was totally blown away. I rate it as the #2 Beatles album behind Revolver. I go back and forth as to whether Abbey Road or Rubber Soul is the next best. I put the White Album after that and can't understand why anyone would rate the Whit Album higher than any of the other four I've listed-it has too much weak material (though it has great stuff too) I have to disagree with the use of execrable to describe Magical Mystery Tour. In addition to Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane (the best two sided single ever) this fine album contains "All You Need Is Love", a world wide anthem for the 60's, "The Fool On The Hill", a great tune that even John in his Paul bashing phase had praise for, The incredibly catchy "Hello Goodbye" (with a great false ending to boot), the underrated "Baby You're A Rich Man", which I recently heard aptly described as being both highly commercial and highly adventurous at the same time, the fun, rocking title track, and the incredible "I Am The Walrus", with its amazing wordplay and original sound. "Flying", "Your Mother Should Know" and "Blue Jay Way" are fairly mediocre by Beatles standards, but still this is a strong LP.
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Post by superhans on Jul 23, 2008 15:14:19 GMT -5
I have to disagree with the use of execrable to describe Magical Mystery Tour. In addition to Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane (the best two sided single ever) this fine album contains "All You Need Is Love", a world wide anthem for the 60's, "The Fool On The Hill", a great tune that even John in his Paul bashing phase had praise for, The incredibly catchy "Hello Goodbye" (with a great false ending to boot), the underrated "Baby You're A Rich Man", which I recently heard aptly described as being both highly commercial and highly adventurous at the same time, the fun, rocking title track, and the incredible "I Am The Walrus", with its amazing wordplay and original sound. "Flying", "Your Mother Should Know" and "Blue Jay Way" are fairly mediocre by Beatles standards, but still this is a strong LP. JPH, I totally agree with your take on the realtive merits of Pepper against the White Album and Abbey Road. I suppose why I'm relatively down on MMT is that some of the strong tacks you mention were not from the original English MMT double-EP (and therefore not from MMT per se). 'All you need is Love' and 'Baby you're a rich man' were just an adjacent 45-single thrown onto the album. Although MMT had its moments musically, as an album is it largely sustained by songs that had little or nothing to do with the MMT project... ...not that it matters particularly. It's just that if SFF and PL, belong anywhere, they should really be on 'Pepper'. It's the relative weakness of MMT that wrenches those two songs away from their natural home.
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Post by marcm1441 on Jul 23, 2008 15:31:49 GMT -5
Its a great album....Not my favorite Beatles album but great just the same......and I agree with what John said about it being a concept album....Pepper, With a little help from my friends , and the reprise does not make it a true concept album as there is not a theme that runs all the way through it/
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Post by sayne on Jul 23, 2008 16:04:24 GMT -5
I did the same thing, too, after a study of Pet Sounds, and I couldn't understand how anyone could think that Pet Sounds was better than Pepper. Yes, "Good Vibrations"is one of the BEST songs of ALL-TIME and I absolutely adore "God Only Knows" and there are other good ones, too, but I think that song for song, Pepper tops it, IMHO. So what that Pet Sounds influenced Pepper. Rubber Soul influenced Pet Sounds. I'm NOT slagging Pet Sounds. It's just that, like you, I relistened to Pepper again expecting it to be a bit tired, but instead rediscovered it's greatness. I think it is VERY debatable, and simply a matter of opinion, that it is the best album of the rock era, but I don't think there is ANY question that it is the MOST influential - for good or for bad - than any other record. It is the measure of all other albums. It's the one that albums compare themselves to, not Pet Sounds.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Jul 23, 2008 16:40:35 GMT -5
As the albums stands today, it is the 2nd or 3rd best Beatles album. But just think if they could have replaced Within You Without You with another George number and put out the following single:
When I'm Sixty Four / Within You Without You
So instead the album would be as follows:
Side 1
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band With A Little Help From My Friends Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds Getting Better Fixing A Hole She's Leaving Home Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite
Side2
Its All Too Much Stawberry Fields Forever Penny Lane Lovely Rita Good Morning, Good Morning Sgt. Pepper (Reprise) A Day in the Life
I have to say this just might outdo the White Album and Revolver. This running order is sure to please most anyone and they could still have pulled the single PL/SFF from it if they chose. Its not that When I'm Sixty Four is a bad track. Quite the opposite, its one of the most popular. But it doesn't fit the album as well as PL and SFF. Its too retro sounding to be on such a progressive album. As for Within You, its a good track in small doses like on a b-side. I really like Its All Too Much and it gives the album additional rock flavor which helps. Fourteen tracks and I don't see many flaws.
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Post by pbirdchat on Jul 23, 2008 19:39:34 GMT -5
Sgt Pepper was a birthday gift to me along with MMT in June of 1972. I loved the trippiness of both albums and soon began listening to these two with incense and black lights.
Our grade school music teacher played The Beatles in class every week and I remember how weird Lucy In The Sky and Mr. Kite sounded. There was no back beat and the background was almost that of a oompa band. However, the productions and performance of the vocals were mesmerizing.
Pepper was one of the first "take it as it is" albums that was meant to be listened to in one setting. First to have a gate fold cover and lyrics on the album. Even the silence between track was kept at a minimum.
I love the album so much that to this day, I only play it sparingly as to not get tired of it. And when I do listen to it....it must be in it's entirety and played loud on great equipment. I thought the Love mixes were fantastic and can't wait till it's remastered. Darren D'Rito
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Post by johnpaulharstar on Jul 23, 2008 20:52:46 GMT -5
As the albums stands today, it is the 2nd or 3rd best Beatles album. But just think if they could have replaced Within You Without You with another George number and put out the following single: When I'm Sixty Four / Within You Without You So instead the album would be as follows: Side 1 Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band With A Little Help From My Friends Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds Getting Better Fixing A Hole She's Leaving Home Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite Side2 Its All Too Much Stawberry Fields Forever Penny Lane Lovely Rita Good Morning, Good Morning Sgt. Pepper (Reprise) A Day in the Life I have to say this just might outdo the White Album and Revolver. This running order is sure to please most anyone and they could still have pulled the single PL/SFF from it if they chose. Its not that When I'm Sixty Four is a bad track. Quite the opposite, its one of the most popular. But it doesn't fit the album as well as PL and SFF. Its too retro sounding to be on such a progressive album. As for Within You, its a good track in small doses like on a b-side. I really like Its All Too Much and it gives the album additional rock flavor which helps. Fourteen tracks and I don't see many flaws. That is really interesting because when I first put all my albums on tape, there was extra space so I added "It's All Too Much", figuring George should have a 2nd song. I also added the Anthology 2 versions of "Straweberry Fields Forever" and "Penny Lane". The fact that George has 3 songs on Revolver and only one on Pepper is actually one of the reasons I rate Revolver higher than Pepper. Throw in "It's Only A Northern Song" (along with the songs mentioned above) and Pepper would rate #1. But then again, for my version of Revolver on tape I added "Paperback Writer" and "Rain" so that might put Revolver back on top! But then again, "All You Need Is Love" and "Baby You're A Rich Man" were the single that came out at the time of Pepper, so maybe that puts Pepper back on top!!! It really is amazing that the Beatles could release fantastic albums at the same time they were releasing great singles that weren't on the albums. In addition to the above mentioned, you have "Day Tripper' and "We Can Work It Out' at the time of Rubber Soul, "Hey Jude" and "Revolution" at the time of the White Album, and "Ballad Of John & Yoko" and "Old Brown Shoe" near the time of Abbey Road.
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Post by revolver66 on Jul 23, 2008 23:48:53 GMT -5
Well years ago it was Pepper that was the Number One LP of all time(Not Revolver not Pet Sounds etc..). Somewhere along the way Pepper began to get slagged on and fell from grace(not a long way but a small bit). Populatity breeds contempt it seems. I think with Pepper and MMT it's a Pyschedelic Thing. If your into Psych then these are the real deal. I love them both but can see why the more average music fan might not. They are much more of there time than most Beatles Music. I lisren to Pepper less than many other Beatles Lps but when I do listen it is always an amazing LP. It is a true Classic that was a bigger influence on what came after than any LP(that includes Revolver & Pet Sounds by the way). I mean from the Gatefold cover with Lyrics,the free goodies,and the LP as a major art form..We have the Fabs to blame!! Also I love MMT. It gets slammed by a lot of you but I listen to it and Let It Be the most. To a post above. Good Vibrations isn't on the Pet Sounds LP.
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JMG
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Post by JMG on Jul 24, 2008 0:59:59 GMT -5
I think 'Sgt. Pepper' gets dissed by some critics for the same reason The Moody Blues 'Nights In White Satin' and Led Zeppelin's 'Stairway To Heaven' get no respect. In their day they were glorified and played to death on FM radio to the point that no one wants to hear them today. They've become taken for granted.
If people would open up their minds and give these wonderful recordings a proper listen to today, they just might come away with a very different opinion.
However, in my younger days I found 'Stairway' extremely hard to dance to. ;D
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jul 24, 2008 2:06:36 GMT -5
Pepper is of course an excellent album. BUT ... by Beatle standards it has rather a lot of weak, second layer tracks in my opinion.
The album starts off very strongly with Pepper/Help From Friends/Lucy, and then sags noticeably with Getting Better. John kind of, sort of rescues it with his "it can't get no worse", but for me it's a nothing song, going nowhere.
It picks up a little with Fixing A Hole (Paul - those lyrics, well done man), then sags again with She's Leaving Home (sags by beatle standards, mind - not ordinary standards!). I don't know what it is about Leaving Home - perhaps it just sounds forced: kind of "here's my compulsory superior ballad", courtesy Paul.
Kite is pretty good (I CAN smell the sawdust). Good way to end Side 1.
I am one of those ultra-fans who REALLY like Within Without. VERY much of its time, and a superb example of raga rock. Now we have the problems: 64 and Rita are nice, sort of interesting, but too lightweight. Good Morning is solid if you pick up on its vibe and meaning (I think most casual fans miss the point of this song: it's VERY nihilistic). Then the great ending.
So , for me FOUR songs need to be dropkicked off Pepper: that's rather a lot. But their replacements? Wow: consider Only A Northern Song (slated for Pepper originally), SFF and Penny Lane. That would do me.
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Post by superhans on Jul 24, 2008 3:12:12 GMT -5
It picks up a little with Fixing A Hole (Paul - those lyrics, well done man), then sags again with She's Leaving Home (sags by beatle standards, mind - not ordinary standards!). I don't know what it is about Leaving Home - perhaps it just sounds forced: kind of "here's my compulsory superior ballad", courtesy Paul. For me, 'She's leaving home' is like a poor man's 'For no one'. It's basically a McCartney domestic ballad, centred around relationship discord. 'For no one' works brilliantly, but 'She's leaving home' comes across a bit contrived and is layered on too thick for my taste. I really like the generally maligned 'Getting Better' and 'Fixing a hole'. They are quintessential album tracks. Although neither particularly stand out, they fit the purpose and theme of Pepper perfectly. Same with 'Rita'. Every album needs its standard-bearers and its foot soldiers!! ...and I like Return to Pepperland's alternative line up. I have often wondered how you would have shoe-horned SFF and PL onto Pepper's track listing (assuming approx. 20 minutes per side), but I'd never considered 'It's all too much' as a possible alternative contribution from George! Interesting. It would fit really well. ......anyway, what I meant to say was that the Concept Album is supposed to be making a modest comeback, according to one or two music mags. Evidence for this is a bit thin on the ground, but the critically-acclaimed 'The week that was' by Field Music and 'Stainless Style' by Super Furry Animals spin-off group Neon Neon (about the life and times of John DeLorean!) have been cited as examples. If this trend gathers momentum, maybe, just maybe, Pepper will experience a revisionist upsurge in its fortunes... I truly hope so. Superhans.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 7:59:33 GMT -5
Everyone has their own tastes,their own thoughts regarding the Beatles best albums,for me personally,i think Let It Be is their best album,i think Pepper is a little overrated because the songs on Pepper are of varying standards and they definitely aren't all quality and it's not really a concept album.
The original concept idea was ruined when Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane were released as a single....
The only real connection between the tracks is the way one track was linked to the other.....
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Post by superhans on Jul 24, 2008 8:43:52 GMT -5
Everyone has their own tastes,their own thoughts regarding the Beatles best albums,for me personally,i think Let It Be is their best album Man, I love 'Let it Be'. The idea of recording 'live' in the studio, without overdubs, was a brilliant one -- and where it works on LIB, it works spectacularly well ('Get Back', 'Don't let me down', 'I've got a Feeling' etc). I don't know why more bands don't try recording albums in that manner.
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Post by revolver66 on Jul 24, 2008 10:11:21 GMT -5
I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my love for the Let It Be LP. It definitely has gotten better with age!!
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Post by sayne on Jul 24, 2008 10:33:08 GMT -5
To a post above. Good Vibrations isn't on the Pet Sounds LP. Thanks. You're right. I misspoke. I was getting Smile and Pet Sounds confused. Smile also gets described as an album that would have blown away Pepper and everything else in the universe.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 24, 2008 18:52:03 GMT -5
I view SPLHCB as a magical timewarp: it may be dated around the edges but it retains its mystery, color and allure even now. It transports the listener to somewhere else without leaving the room.
I can only liken the emotions the album conjures up to those scenes in the Harry Potter series where the kids cross over from modern London into Diagon Alley, the throwback magical, trippy economic hub of the Magic World.
Like Diagon Alley, SPLHCB is mostly wonderful and happy but there are some darker and slightly sinister corners or undercurrents within it. Those areas are about but they never intrude.
I play SPLHCB maybe twice a year but I pull out all the stops when I do. I can't listen to it casually but must get in the right frame of mind.
From a more worldly aspect, SPLHCB is very well recorded and it is apparent that a lot of effort went into it. I truly lament that "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Penny Lane" got separated from SPLHCB. Yet I wouldn't want anything else cut to make room for them(this is one example where the c.d. format would have been handy in 1967, there'd been plenty of room for all on a c.d.).
SPLHCB is not really a "concept album" but it is a beautiful timepiece that is pure magic; something to be savored and admired.
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Post by johnpaulharstar on Jul 24, 2008 21:39:19 GMT -5
I think "Lovely Rita" is a fantastic track and I've always thought "When I'm 64" is a great way to bring things "back to earth" after the far out "Within You Without You" (which I also think is fantastic, though a little long-a problem George had at this time-think "Blue Jay Way"). I think there are no weak (or even mediocre) tracks on Pepper.
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ImBigK
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Post by ImBigK on Jul 24, 2008 23:26:54 GMT -5
I think 'Sgt. Pepper' gets dissed by some critics for the same reason The Moody Blues 'Nights In White Satin' and Led Zeppelin's 'Stairway To Heaven' get no respect. In their day they were glorified and played to death on FM radio to the point that no one wants to hear them today. They've become taken for granted. If people would open up their minds and give these wonderful recordings a proper listen to today, they just might come away with a very different opinion. However, in my younger days I found 'Stairway' extremely hard to dance to. ;D I think that's a pretty valid theory. The overexposure (and, in fairness, overindulgences) of some of the 60's/70's 'dinosaurs' was a big factor in the development of punk/new wave as well. The new wave crowd soon developed their own clichés as well, which is the usual cycle. As for "Stairway," you could always seek out an obscure cover of it by 'Far Corporation.' They redid it as a 10 minute dance single! The singer sounds a lot like Robert Plant, but the overall effect is pretty horrible IMO. Still, you CAN dance to it.... -Big K
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ImBigK
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Post by ImBigK on Jul 24, 2008 23:35:01 GMT -5
I view SPLHCB as a magical timewarp: it may be dated around the edges but it retains its mystery, color and allure even now. It transports the listener to somewhere else without leaving the room. I can only liken the emotions the album conjures up to those scenes in the Harry Potter series where the kids cross over from modern London into Diagon Alley, the throwback magical, trippy economic hub of the Magic World. Like Diagon Alley, SPLHCB is mostly wonderful and happy but there are some darker and slightly sinister corners or undercurrents within it. Those areas are about but they never intrude. <snip> SPLHCB is not really a "concept album" but it is a beautiful timepiece that is pure magic; something to be savored and admired. That's one of the best descriptions I've ever heard of Sgt. Pepper's appeal. It may not be a true 'concept album' per se, but there's a sort of unity of purpose that permeates the album nevertheless. I also would not want to drop any of the songs from the album. It's like the movie THE WIZARD OF OZ... it wasn't put together with all of the elements originally intended (ie no SFF/PL etc.) but it's perfect just as it is. -Big K
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Post by vectisfabber on Jul 25, 2008 3:33:38 GMT -5
Not that we all agree about Getting Better being a second rate track....
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Post by revolver66 on Jul 25, 2008 8:10:35 GMT -5
Not that we all agree about Getting Better being a second rate track.... Getting Better is actually one of my favorites from the LP!
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Post by gripweed on Jul 25, 2008 8:47:30 GMT -5
I can't believe people are dissing "Getting Better". It's a great track. Paul and John's question and response wordplay. George doing his thing on the tambura.
I think a lot of the disrespect for Pepper was because John said he thought it was the "biggest load of shit we ever recorded". Did he retract that later? John was trying to bring Paul back down to earth but the White Album was John's anti pepper album.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Jul 25, 2008 10:26:04 GMT -5
I can't believe people are dissing "Getting Better". It's a great track. Paul and John's question and response wordplay. George doing his thing on the tambura. Paul's bass playing on "Getting Better" has always been my favorite bass work of his on any Beatle song.
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JMG
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Post by JMG on Jul 25, 2008 14:36:50 GMT -5
For me, John Lennon was a genius in a musical sense but an emotionally screwed up individual with a lot of personal problems and a very bitter man. Who knows? If he had lived out a normal life span he might have come around to seeing how great a life he had. I always took whatever John said about the Beatles with a grain of salt.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Jul 25, 2008 15:33:21 GMT -5
I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my love for the Let It Be LP. It definitely has gotten better with age!! Let It Be is one of my favorite albums too. It is very underated not in small part because John said it was a load of $#!%. It really because his songs weren't the best on the album that was originally released. But what if they had completed the songs they rehearsed or demoed around that time that later became solo songs or were given away: 1. Two Of Us 2. All Things Must Pass 3. Child of Nature 4. Get Back 5. Isn't It A Pity 6. Let It Be 7. Across the Universe 8. Sour Milk Sea 9. Gimmie Some Truth 10. Junk 11. Don't Let Me Down 12. I've Got A Feeling 13 .One After 909 14. The Long and Winding Road This is an even better lineup.
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JMG
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Post by JMG on Jul 25, 2008 19:00:37 GMT -5
I'm glad to see I'm not alone in my love for the Let It Be LP. It definitely has gotten better with age!! Let It Be is one of my favorite albums too. It is very underated not in small part because John said it was a load of $#!%. It really because his songs weren't the best on the album that was originally released. But what if they had completed the songs they rehearsed or demoed around that time that later became solo songs or were given away: 1. Two Of Us 2. All Things Must Pass 3. Child of Nature 4. Get Back 5. Isn't It A Pity 6. Let It Be 7. Across the Universe 8. Sour Milk Sea 9. Gimmie Some Truth 10. Junk 11. Don't Let Me Down 12. I've Got A Feeling 13 .One After 909 14. The Long and Winding Road This is an even better lineup. I like your list Pepperland but...no love for 'Maybe I'm Amazed' IMO one of Paul's best songs ever?
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Post by ChokingSmoker on Jul 25, 2008 19:54:42 GMT -5
For me, John Lennon was a genius in a musical sense but an emotionally screwed up individual with a lot of personal problems and a very bitter man. Who knows? If he had lived out a normal life span he might have come around to seeing how great a life he had. I always took whatever John said about the Beatles with a grain of salt. How very harsh. Being that John was the Beatles, I suspect that you have not even reached the equivalent of a "normal life span" as of yet. When you do, please return with more credible remarks. As for Sgt. Pepper, I listen to it at least three or four times a month. Have been for years. It is still the single most creative and brilliant music work of all time that cannot be dismissed to gaining dust on the shelf. JMHO
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ImBigK
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Post by ImBigK on Jul 25, 2008 19:59:00 GMT -5
To my ears, there's no one person who "WAS" the Beatles. They are the ultimate musical example of the whole being greater than the (already considerable) sum of its parts.
My two cents.
-Big K
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