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Post by joeyself on Sept 28, 2009 9:16:58 GMT -5
I don't know about the mono-I think if I had to absolutely choose-stereo is still my preference. I read an interesting review where the reviewer noticed a sort of holier than thou attitude among those who espouse the mono remasters-because it seems cool and it is, they say, rightfully the way the Beatles intended; however, the mono mixes were also intended to be heard on AM radio and teenage record players with one speaker; how much improvement can one truly expect...I was not blown away by the listening experience-whether headphones or rack system speakers---there is more ambience in the stereo remasters-even with the extreme seperation of left and right channels. Like many, I do hope for stereo remixes of these classic albums- i loved Yellow Submarine Songtrack...The mono may offer some slight intereresting variations such as noted in "She's Leaving Home" and portions of the White album; but the mixes still sound flat and even, dare i say, slightly muddy. I cannot tell much difference between the first two albums in mono -both 1987 and remastered versions; but I do hear a vast improvement in the stereo remaster and this is merely my opinion. I am 42 years old and my hearing is not the same as when i was 20.... For me the stereo box is also the complete picture, having all the albums, all the way to Abbey Road & Let IT Be-so it still would be my desert island box set of choice over the mono in almost every way, not to mention cheaper as well. Don't get me wrong, the mono box is a treasure trove for comparison; but it has been more of a chore for me...everytime I listen to mono, I try to get through it so i can listen to the stereo versions i prefer....and enjoy. Well said. I haven't picked up a mono box yet, and have not yet convinced myself that having a mono REVOLVER, PEPPER and White Album are really worth the money; I have most of RUBBER SOUL and before on the Capitol Boxes in mono if I care to hear them (and I frankly don't remember listening to the mono portions of any of those discs). I don't listen through the dashboard speaker of my parent's car anymore, and while I understand "it's what the Beatles' preferred in 1963" argument, I'm not listening with 1963 equipment. And I'd LOVE to have some remixes, lovingly done. The YSS was just such a release. The sonic limitations of 1965 should not impede our listening experiences today. I just know that if anyone undertakes to do it, he or she had better have a thick skin. JcS
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Post by joeyself on Sept 28, 2009 9:22:24 GMT -5
This roadhouse I was at is seedy and rough. There are people there at their wit's end. I went to this bar when my then fiance broke off our engagement and I wanted to soak up the atmosphere of a depressing place. Misery loves company. My boss pointed out to me a couple of months ago that saying isn't exactly true. It should be "Misery enjoys MISERABLE company" because it doesn't like cheerful companions. JcS
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 28, 2009 9:35:51 GMT -5
This roadhouse I was at is seedy and rough. There are people there at their wit's end. I went to this bar when my then fiance broke off our engagement and I wanted to soak up the atmosphere of a depressing place. Misery loves company. My boss pointed out to me a couple of months ago that saying isn't exactly true. It should be "Misery enjoys MISERABLE company" because it doesn't like cheerful companions. JcS True and I found miserable company there. I was a snob though thinking I was an intellectual or something and beyond such a dreary, hard-edged existence and just there soaking up the vibe but I think anyone can quickly fall into such despair whatever one's background. I too like cheerdown's post and I can think of a certain Beatles' fan friend of mine who is going on and on about the monos and trashing the stereo remasters! ;D And the "holier than thou" phrase is kind of funny(if not really true) as to this fellow just because of his occupation! Great post cheerdown67!
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wooltonian
Very Clean
"Football isn't a matter of life and death - it's much more important than that." Bill Shankly.
Posts: 796
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Post by wooltonian on Sept 28, 2009 11:02:04 GMT -5
Does this stereo separation thing get a bit over-played? There are two specific Beatles songs where the over-separation really bugs me - 'Rain' and 'Hey bulldog'. In both, Lennon's vocals come out of one speaker and - regardless of where you position your speakers - are too low down in the mix. (I presume that the remixed 1999 YS fixed this problem in the case of 'Hey Bulldog')
With the exception of those two tracks, I can't think of too many occasions when I've listened to Beatles records on a hi-fi and found the old stereo mixes that objectionable.
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Post by wolfsblood on Oct 3, 2009 15:08:57 GMT -5
Does this stereo separation thing get a bit over-played? There are two specific Beatles songs where the over-separation really bugs me - 'Rain' and 'Hey bulldog'. In both, Lennon's vocals come out of one speaker and - regardless of where you position your speakers - are too low down in the mix. (I presume that the remixed 1999 YS fixed this problem in the case of 'Hey Bulldog') With the exception of those two tracks, I can't think of too many occasions when I've listened to Beatles records on a hi-fi and found the old stereo mixes that objectionable. The only time it bugs me is if I'm at a place like a CD store where you can only hear one stereo speaker. Some of the Beatles stereo mixes sound horrible when heard through only one of the two speakers. It's like dude, get the mono version or play something else.
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Post by Beatle Bob on Oct 3, 2009 15:18:39 GMT -5
Does this stereo separation thing get a bit over-played? There are two specific Beatles songs where the over-separation really bugs me - 'Rain' and 'Hey bulldog'. In both, Lennon's vocals come out of one speaker and - regardless of where you position your speakers - are too low down in the mix. (I presume that the remixed 1999 YS fixed this problem in the case of 'Hey Bulldog') With the exception of those two tracks, I can't think of too many occasions when I've listened to Beatles records on a hi-fi and found the old stereo mixes that objectionable. The only time it bugs me is if I'm at a place like a CD store where you can only hear one stereo speaker. Some of the Beatles stereo mixes sound horrible when heard through only one of the two speakers. It's like dude, get the mono version or play something else. It's happened to me too, in Borders books. They just play the CDs. They have no concept. Regards, Beatle Bob
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Post by cheerdown67 on Oct 3, 2009 19:48:45 GMT -5
Very true if you are in a store and hear it through one speaker; however, my enjoyment of music is always with two stereo speakers-not just for the Beatles but for everything else as well...I'm almost through with listening to the whole stereo box and really do love it-glad the entire discography was released at once instead of over the years as with Harrison & Lennon.
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 5, 2009 11:11:24 GMT -5
Good Lord, I played late last night the 2009 stereo remaster of Past Master, Disc 1 and it is amazing! This may be the most exciting disc of remastered Beatles yet for my money because PM, Disc 1 needed to do a sales' job on me, it needed to convince me that it wasn't boring like PM, Volume I from 1987. I have never liked the 1987 Past Masters Volume 1 but now I know why: the songs sound dead on it. This 2009 version just blew me away. Every song on this comp comes alive, even things that can't be in real stereo like the original single version of "Love Me Do." Whoa, the "From Me To You" sounds awesome and I instantly forgave it for being on 1 while "Please Please Me" was not. "Thank You Girl" has never, and I mean never, sounded better! "She Loves You" and "I Want To Hold Your Hand" have a depth and clarity I have never heard before although I agree that these always sound best out of one speaker on a mono radio. Still, these 2009 versions are forever the new standards. "I'll Get You" is good but not quite as earth-rattling as "Thank You Girl." The real fun starts with "This Boy." Did I just turn to see The Beatles in my family room? Maybe! The two German songs are okay but what is fun about them are listening to the instruments. "Long Tall Sally" and the series of covers here all explode in wild abandon that I haven't ever heard before, not even on 1976's Rock And Roll Music which was pretty good. These are so in your face that I got spit on by John Lennon during "Slow Down!" Hey dude, sing it don't spray it or I'll wear my raincoat next time! "I Call Your Name" was cool, more passion from Lennon than in the dreary 1987 version. But what got me, what made me get down on my knees and what gave me redemption was "I Feel Fine," "She's A Woman," "Yes It Is" and "I'm Down." That Dexter fool is gone on the first two and in stereo these songs are living testaments to Beatles' greatness! I didn't even have my stereo up loud but hearing those four songs tonight on the 2009 stereo remastered PM-1 was like having great sex with that one person you have fantasized about your whole life and when you get your one shot at it, it doesn't disappoint! I am worn out just writing this. I need to smoke and I don't even smoke. Man, I dreaded playing PM, Disc 1 as PM Vol. 1 was always a drag to me. Not tonight, not anymore. Apple hit a grand slam. I feel like I may make a run on early Beatles' for a few days. These stereo remasters have fired me up on the early stuff after years of indifference since we first got those sterile 1987 mono versions. I can't wait to hear PM-Disc 2! Bring on "Hey Jude!" I want the crowd to spill into my living room as I have plenty of beer. If I sound excited it is because I am because I really ignored the old PM, Volume I. To now like something I didn't like before is a big "W" in the win column.
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wooltonian
Very Clean
"Football isn't a matter of life and death - it's much more important than that." Bill Shankly.
Posts: 796
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Post by wooltonian on Oct 5, 2009 12:28:17 GMT -5
Good Lord, I played late last night the 2009 stereo remaster of Past Master, Disc 1 and it is amazing! This may be the most exciting disc of remastered Beatles yet for my money because PM, Disc 1 needed to do a sales' job on me, it needed to convince me that it wasn't boring like PM, Volume I from 1987. Every time I read one of your re-masters reviews I go straight onto the Richer Sounds hi-fi website, drool over their exotic range of mahogany-clad speakers and 24-bit CD players and think - Dare I? ...being in Mrs. Woolie's good books vs. listening to Beatles re-masters in amazing sound semi-inebriated... <...flips coin...>
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 5, 2009 13:23:56 GMT -5
Good Lord, I played late last night the 2009 stereo remaster of Past Master, Disc 1 and it is amazing! This may be the most exciting disc of remastered Beatles yet for my money because PM, Disc 1 needed to do a sales' job on me, it needed to convince me that it wasn't boring like PM, Volume I from 1987. Every time I read one of your re-masters reviews I go straight onto the Richer Sounds hi-fi website, drool over their exotic range of mahogany-clad speakers and 24-bit CD players and think - Dare I? ...being in Mrs. Woolie's good books vs. listening to Beatles re-masters in amazing sound semi-inebriated... <...flips coin...> I know what you mean, Woolie! My wife doesn't know that I have been researching stereo equipment since 09/09/09. I think if I get a new HD TV for us I might be able to pull off the new stereo too. "Well hey honey, we can't spend money on an HD tv without modernizing the sound system we'll be running the audio through!" She wants to spend money on painting, fixing up and furnishing bedrooms no one sleeps in now that the boys are gone? Duh, I don't care if the paint is peeling or the roof slightly leaks over her side of the bed as long as I can listen to Beatles in good sonics. Get your priorities right, woman! ;D I have now listened once to every 2009 stereo remastered Beatles' album except Sgt. Pepper(but I played and loved the mono version) and Past Masters, Disc 2. I'll write later about the stereo White Album, Help! and With The Beatles that I tackled from about 3:00 a.m. to 6:30 a.m. last Sunday morning as I didn't have to get up because the Colts were in Phoenix at 8:30 p.m. later that night. Neither my dogs nor my wife liked me lurking around jamming to Beatles at those hours but a guy must do what he's got to do to get quality stereo time by himself!
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Post by Cosmos on Oct 5, 2009 15:43:09 GMT -5
I am absolutely loving your reviews JSD! I have felt much the same during many of my listening experiences thus far, however I just HAVE to believe that I am still missing some of the nuances due to the fact that I have been listening to "flac" files and not the "real deal" that I am STILL patiently waiting for from Amazon! P.S. I felt that the Stereo version of Sgt. Pepper's was a let-down compared to the prescence & clarity evident in the Mono Re-master, so I hope you don't get your hopes up too high on that one!
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 5, 2009 16:26:02 GMT -5
I am absolutely loving your reviews JSD! I have felt much the same during many of my listening experiences thus far, however I just HAVE to believe that I am still missing some of the nuances due to the fact that I have been listening to "flac" files and not the "real deal" that I am STILL patiently waiting for from Amazon! P.S. I felt that the Stereo version of Sgt. Pepper's was a let-down compared to the prescence & clarity evident in the Mono Re-master, so I hope you don't get your hopes up too high on that one! I was thinking that too about stereo Pepper and maybe that's why I haven't gotten to it yet. That is why I waited to play the stereo Past Masters because I have never really liked Volumes I and II from 1987 although I was obviously knocked out by 2009 remastered stereo Disc 1. Hope you get yours soon and I see you've posted in that Thread about them being sold out so off I go to there....
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Post by winstonoboogie on Oct 5, 2009 20:32:14 GMT -5
...so we may safely conclude that you liked the remater of PM1 then, Huck?
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 6, 2009 8:42:12 GMT -5
I was much less impressed with Past Masters, Disc 2 for two reasons: (1) I still think "Day Tripper" and to a lesser extent "We Can Work It Out" sound bad. I could tell no difference between the 2009 remastered versions of these two songs and the 1987 versions on Past Masters, Volume 2. To me the vocals, particularly on "Day Tripper," sound hollow or, stated differently, full of echo which is not how I remember them on vinyl or even on the c.d. version of the Red Album.
(2) I think my Disc 2 of PM is defective as I am getting scratchy and/or static noises for "Let It Be" and "You Know My Name(Look Up The Number). How can a c.d. sound scratchy or have static? Vinyl can do that but it seems that a c.d. either skips or won't play. I cleaned the disc with my discwasher kit.
I live in an old house so my electric wiring is old but I wasn't getting this noise on any other song on PM, just the last two songs.
While I am not that big into the technical side of things, Past Masters, Disc 2 might be the longest running of all The Beatles' c.d.'s. I wonder if that has something to do with it? Does Past Masters have a video encoded into it for PC play as the other albums do? I was also thinking that could be the culprit coupled with the longer running time.
I will try it again today but the last two songs were unlistenable as they played last night. When "Let It Be" wasn't emitting that static or scratchy noise, it sounded great but the noise would appear throughout the whole song coming and going. "You Know My Name" didn't sound so hot even when without the static. Bummer, I might have to replace P.M. with a new purchase of that album. I sure as hell am not taking the whole boxset back!
I thought that "Hey Jude" sounded great as well as "The Ballad Of John And Yoko." John's vocal on the latter sounded as crisp as I have ever heard it on a recording which is not among the clearest or cleanest ever recorded by the Fabs. John was really snapping out each word. So PM-2 Stereo 2009 had its highlights for sure but DT and WCWIO kind of brought me back to earth and the possible defect at the end of the disc is sobering too.
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 6, 2009 10:37:44 GMT -5
Amazon lists the 2009 stereo Past Masters as an enhanced disc. I am wondering if that, coupled with the disc's length, is causing me my aforementioned problems.
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 7, 2009 10:25:24 GMT -5
I am absolutely loving your reviews JSD! I have felt much the same during many of my listening experiences thus far, however I just HAVE to believe that I am still missing some of the nuances due to the fact that I have been listening to "flac" files and not the "real deal" that I am STILL patiently waiting for from Amazon! P.S. I felt that the Stereo version of Sgt. Pepper's was a let-down compared to the prescence & clarity evident in the Mono Re-master, so I hope you don't get your hopes up too high on that one! I was thinking that too about stereo Pepper and maybe that's why I haven't gotten to it yet. That is why I waited to play the stereo Past Masters because I have never really liked Volumes I and II from 1987 although I was obviously knocked out by 2009 remastered stereo Disc 1. Hope you get yours soon and I see you've posted in that Thread about them being sold out so off I go to there.... I played the 2009 stereo remastered Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band last night and I was very impressed, enjoyed it greatly. I think this is an album where both the remastered sound and the extra packaging will really impress both the diehards and the newer fans. Everything about this one is cool. I am not taking anything away from the mono mix because that was really superb, the surprise sleeper for this 1970's-era teenager who was listening to music almost exclusively in stereo back then. Still, stereo Pepper is how I remember it and I was thrilled last night. The whole album took me deep into that slightly sinister carnival world that Pepper invokes in me. I really think the new remastering enhances what were considered by many(not all) the "lesser" Pepper songs in the 60' and 70's. Things like "Getting Better," "Fixing A Hole," "Within You Without You," and "Good Morning Good Morning" just come alive to me, these remasters giving them a new life. I think of the stabbing guitars starting "Getting Better" or the almost classical start to "Fixing a Hole" and these now are so crisp and vibrant. I have always felt that the other songs on Pepper needed no help and would sound magical even when played on speakers the size of Necco Candy Wafers! Yet they benefit too and I am really impressed with the stereo remaster. I replayed Past Masters, Disc 2 and enjoyed most of it but "Day Tripper" and "We Can Work it Out" just don't sound right to me, too digital or something. I didn't get the distortion on my first plays of "Let It Be" and "You Know My Name" so I don't think my disc is defective although I got a little on both the second plays last night but not nearly like the night before. I don't know, maybe it is an electrical wiring thing in an old house, the refrigerator kicks on and I get some speaker distortion, who knows? I wasn't getting any on the seven minute long "Hey Jude."
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wooltonian
Very Clean
"Football isn't a matter of life and death - it's much more important than that." Bill Shankly.
Posts: 796
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Post by wooltonian on Oct 7, 2009 12:48:26 GMT -5
I have always felt that the other songs on Pepper needed no help and would sound magical even when played on speakers the size of Necco Candy Wafers! Yet they benefit too and I am really impressed with the stereo remaster. Great review. At the moment, I am living my re-masters experience vicariously though your excellent daily reports! For me, the White Album is the clincher. I'm actually reasonably satisfied with most of my 1987 CD collection (as with your re-mastered PM2, I get strange static on my 1987 copy of SPLHCB, which I had blamed on faulty fridges etc - but it's probably just the CD) but my White Album CD is a real clunker sound-wise... ...if you pronounce the re-mastered WA a success then my purse strings might be loosened. We'll see...
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 21, 2009 8:25:24 GMT -5
I did a second, loud listen to the 2009 stereo remastered Please Please Me and wow! I really enjoyed it, more than the first time. The vocals were clean and crisp but what I enjoyed the most was hearing the guitars better than ever. It makes you feel like you are there. One can clearly hear the little flourishes George added to almost every song. The Mrs. will be gone October 26 overnight as she and her sister travel to see Daughtry, the American Idol contestant who all the suburbanites think is real Rock. That will be my first chance to push the limits of my stereo speakers on Beatles' remasters for an extended period of time. The other option is a wild-ass party at my house where I could get in all kinds of trouble with the Mrs. but you can't play Beatles For Sale at such a party, probably would have to play Daughtry. Hmm, Beatles' remasters it is! ;D
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 27, 2009 19:59:30 GMT -5
I played the Mono White Album yesterday and it totally creeped me out. The mixes are really compressed or filtered and some sped up too much("Don't Pass Me By" for sure). "Yer Blues" just sounded mean to me, like John was screaming the words in pure rage, not the seeming "White man's blues" parody of the stereo mix I am familiar with. It was very creepy to me.
I have found the 2009 Stereo Remastered White Album organic, crisp and crystal clear, really warm and inviting and even the so-called "Manson" numbers just part of the thrilling show.
The 2009 Remastered Mono White Album I am finding compressed, distorted and perhaps evil. A wicked Doll's House indeed!
Today was the 2009 remastered Mono Magical Mystery Tour. The packaging is beautiful. It is a thrill to hold this one in my hands.
1. Magical Mystery Tour: Starts off good; but Whoa, at the .33 second mark when Paul does his solo vocal, he sounds far off, in a cave or compressed!? There is something very cool at the 1:30 point, a little quiet spot and then the pace picks up with the "Ahhhhh the Magical Mystery Tour!" I can hear the strong strumming of acoustic guitars. Pretty good but Paul's lead vocal parts(similar to his lead vocal in the Sgt. Pepper title song) are distant sounding. It does remind me of how I heard this song on WLS-AM in the mid-70's as that was in mono too. Mono might have a fuller sound since the sound out of each speaker is identical.
2. The Fool On The Hill: Good clarity, sharp vocal from Paul. I can't tell too much difference from stereo other than the neat speaker play we get in stereo. This was good in Mono.
3.Flying: Again, crystal clear, a clean sound which I like and demand. A full sound although I really miss the stereo interplay going on with my speakers as found on the stereo version. Okay.
4. Blue Jay Way: Good start with that Captain Nemo organ bit. Strong vocal from George as we get it from both speakers. Compelling listen so far. Not to repeat myself(but I will), I miss the playful interaction in my speakers that we are treated to in stereo. The ending is cool with the organ again.
5. Your Mother Should Know: Good start. No stereo interplay I have come to like. At about 1:00 the sonic quality drops off considerably! WTF!? At the 1:50 mark Paul's vocal is terrible!! Muffled, compressed, far off. I don't remember that drop in quality on the stereo version. Boo!
6. I Am The Walrus: I have heard this on a.m. radio(mono) so I am prepared for it. Good start so far. Little surprise to me at about the 1:15 mark with a "I'm crying." Something slightly ajar there from what I know. The song is okay in Mono. It is "I Am The Walrus" after all! It would sound good underwater.
7. Hellp Goodbye: This one is sonically boring in Mono. Again, I have heard this on A.M. radio and I have the single so hearing it in Mono is not new. It is not really crystal clear either so that takes away points. I would never, ever seek out this Mono version of HG to play.
8. Strawberry Fields Forever: I owned the reissued Apple 45 of this so Mono is again not new for me. Good start. Clean and clear(as much as SFF can be!). The Mono of SFF is not bad. As I said of Walrus, it would be hard to supress this song. A bizarre quiet spot at about 2:42 where the volume decreased in the song? Okay.
9. Penny Lane: Good start. Another WLS staple in mono and I have the Apple reissued single. Good clear and crisp sound. This reminds me of hearing this when I was 12 and 13. A pleasant walk down memory lane.....er Penny Lane!
10. Baby You're A Rich Man: Wow! This may sound more powerful in Mono! I love the stereo version but often wonder if John's vocal is stretched too thin in stereo. I am really digging this Mono version! This one song could be worth the cost of this album. Very nice.
11. All You Need Is Love: Great start! Another winner in Mono! Sounds somehow different, even down to George's guitar solo. I absolutely love how John's lead vocal is sounding on this. Again, maybe this gets stretched too thin in stereo?
The Mono MMT is okay but something really bad has befallen "Your Mother Should Know" here! "Hello Goodbye" was pretty dead too. And something was compressed on Paul's lead vocal bits on the title song MMT.
It is basically the same MMT album as the stereo which I can't say for Sgt. Pepper or The White Album. The Mono White Album is evil(not bad, but evil) and should have been left buried to all but the bootleggers and those with the rare mono vinyl records. The Mono Sgt. Pepper is friendly and fun.
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Post by sayne on Nov 11, 2009 2:13:07 GMT -5
I finally have both the mono and the stereo remasters. I'm not going to give a song by song or even album by album assessment, for many of you have come up with really good viewpoints and critiques. Here's my two cents:
I think I do prefer the early recordings in mono. The wide separation of instruments (left) and vocals (right) bugs me. Having said that, has anyone here approached the listening in this way? First, I listen with only the left channel. This has allowed me to hear interesting chord changes, passing chords, bass and drum patterns. Many times it's like hearing a totally different song. Sometimes the chords do not augur what the melody (unheard) is doing. Fascinating. Then, I will listen just to the right side (mostly vocals). This has allowed me to hear the breathing, the throaty rock growls, the warbles, the click of drumsticks, the bongos, and the great, but not in sync harmonies. Then, I listen a third time with both sides balanced. I've discovered so many things that I never knew was there. The deconstructive listening, followed by the reconstructed playing has been revelatory.
Another thing struck me. Many times I found myself listening to a song, hearing tons of stuff going on, hooks following hooks, twists and turns in arrangement and performance, and then marveling that all that came in 1:40 or so. I found myself thinking I was listening to a song for 3 minutes only to find it over in less than 2 minutes. I was reminded that so many of their early songs were so short, but they didn't seem short because there was so much going on. The songs REALLY were like mini-symphonies, in the production sense. They had a lot of little things which helped made up a big whole. Kinda like earthquakes. Individual waves which come quickly. Before you know it, it's over - then you look around and see the impact. Their songs were like punches. Short, but packing a wallop. Beatles songs floated like "butterflies, but stung like bees". Extraordinary!
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 11, 2009 11:10:12 GMT -5
I finally have both the mono and the stereo remasters. I'm not going to give a song by song or even album by album assessment, for many of you have come up with really good viewpoints and critiques. Here's my two cents: I think I do prefer the early recordings in mono. The wide separation of instruments (left) and vocals (right) bugs me. Having said that, has anyone here approached the listening in this way? First, I listen with only the left channel. This has allowed me to hear interesting chord changes, passing chords, bass and drum patterns. Many times it's like hearing a totally different song. Sometimes the chords do not augur what the melody (unheard) is doing. Fascinating. Then, I will listen just to the right side (mostly vocals). This has allowed me to hear the breathing, the throaty rock growls, the warbles, the click of drumsticks, the bongos, and the great, but not in sync harmonies. Then, I listen a third time with both sides balanced. I've discovered so many things that I never knew was there. The deconstructive listening, followed by the reconstructed playing has been revelatory. Another thing struck me. Many times I found myself listening to a song, hearing tons of stuff going on, hooks following hooks, twists and turns in arrangement and performance, and then marveling that all that came in 1:40 or so. I found myself thinking I was listening to a song for 3 minutes only to find it over in less than 2 minutes. I was reminded that so many of their early songs were so short, but they didn't seem short because there was so much going on. The songs REALLY were like mini-symphonies, in the production sense. They had a lot of little things which helped made up a big whole. Kinda like earthquakes. Individual waves which come quickly. Before you know it, it's over - then you look around and see the impact. Their songs were like punches. Short, but packing a wallop. Beatles songs floated like "butterflies, but stung like bees". Extraordinary! I did the separation experiment some years ago on the 1987 c.d.'s that were in stereo( Help! on up) and it is revealing for the reasons you said although for me, a non-musician, the most fun was in the vocal parts for the breathing, pauses, etc. Yet another JSD equipment complaint but my mediocre new Sony stereo receiver(which replaced my wonderful but 20 year old NAD "Power Envelope") doesn't let you completely shut off the other speaker even when you go, for instance, to +10 Left(0 is perfect balance) as there is some sound still coming out of the right. I guess the wonks at Sony can't imagine folks wanting to just listen out of one speaker for stereo recordings. Hell, us Beatles' fans would welcome c.d. players that played the discs backwards! ;D As to the packing a lot of adventure into a two minute song, you have perfectly described what makes "Please Please Me" so perfect right at a mere two minutes. So much going on in so little time. Glenn Gass at Indiana University's School of Music gave his best lecture of our Beatles' course on the merits of "Please Please Me" by using the record(hey, it was 1985!) and a piano located in the classroom(which looked like a studio and was suited for recording music). Professor Gass said one would be hard-pressed to find in all of rock and roll two minutes with as much going on and still just plain explosive as in "Please Please Me." He did say that Wings Wild Life was the only objective evidence supporting the "Paul Is Dead" theory so my favorite Prof wasn't always right! ;D Just kidding Glenn if you are reading this although I do love WWL.
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 16, 2009 13:23:56 GMT -5
Last week I bought a separate copy of Past Masters(I have a copy from the stereo box) because Let It Be distorts on my home stereo; I am getting crackling in my speakers on it and sometimes on "You Know My Name(Look Up The Number). Weird but it is happening and it drives me crazy! I haven't played the back-up yet but I mean to get to it soon. If that plays weird I don't know what I will do.
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Post by sayne on Nov 25, 2009 1:07:16 GMT -5
I'm going to continue my thoughts from The Remasters - Vectisfabber's verdict over to here because it seems to make more sense.
Since 1968, I always wondered where the piano went on Martha My Dear. It starts out in the song, then disappears. At least to my ears. I found them. They never left. Listening to the new stereo remasters on the left speaker only enabled me to hear the piano throughout the song. They still get a little lost when heard with both speakers, but I know now that they never left.
One more for now. Listening to the left speaker only showed that there are actually dual guitar leads going on on While My Guitar Gently Weeps. Clapton's famous one and another one I'm assuming is being played by George. I had never heard the second one until I isolated the left speaker. And, once again it is "lost" when listen to both speakers.
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wooltonian
Very Clean
"Football isn't a matter of life and death - it's much more important than that." Bill Shankly.
Posts: 796
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Post by wooltonian on Nov 25, 2009 3:24:48 GMT -5
I'm going to continue my thoughts from The Remasters - Vectisfabber's verdict over to here because it seems to make more sense. Since 1968, I always wondered where the piano went on Martha My Dear. It starts out in the song, then disappears. At least to my ears. I found them. They never left. Listening to the new stereo remasters on the left speaker only enabled me to hear the piano throughout the song. They still get a little lost when heard with both speakers, but I know now that they never left. One more for now. Listening to the left speaker only showed that there are actually dual guitar leads going on on While My Guitar Gently Weeps. Clapton's famous one and another one I'm assuming is being played by George. I had never heard the second one until I isolated the left speaker. And, once again it is "lost" when listen to both speakers. Serious question. Do you actually need a re-mastered copy to hear all this? Surely if you start listening to whole tracks / albums just one speaker at a time you're going to start hearing things lower down in the mix that you hadn't noticed before. Do the 1987 copies not reveal what you are describing when you separate the two stereo channels?
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 25, 2009 12:16:18 GMT -5
Wow, you are right sayne about that jaunty piano opening seeming to disappear on "Martha My Dear!" The song then goes into horns, maybe strings, and some stabbing electric guitar(s) in spots?
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Nov 26, 2009 21:40:08 GMT -5
I'm going to continue my thoughts from The Remasters - Vectisfabber's verdict over to here because it seems to make more sense. Since 1968, I always wondered where the piano went on Martha My Dear. It starts out in the song, then disappears. At least to my ears. I found them. They never left. Listening to the new stereo remasters on the left speaker only enabled me to hear the piano throughout the song. They still get a little lost when heard with both speakers, but I know now that they never left. One more for now. Listening to the left speaker only showed that there are actually dual guitar leads going on on While My Guitar Gently Weeps. Clapton's famous one and another one I'm assuming is being played by George. I had never heard the second one until I isolated the left speaker. And, once again it is "lost" when listen to both speakers. The piano part in "Martha My Dear" is buried in the orchestral accompaniment, but comes back clearly in the lighter middle instumental section, and again clearly when Paul does a repeat of the A section verse towards the end of the song. In "While My Guitar", according to Lewisohn, George only played an accoustic guitar (and some organ notes) on the final version. Besides Clapton's solo, there is a prominent fuzz bass guitar line done by Paul which dances around Clapton's, and a lead guitar part supposedly laid down by Lennon a few days before Clapton came into the studio(though I cannot discern it). I listened both to just the left channel and both channels, and I just hear the Clapton solo and the fuzz bass line as the only prominent guitar lines in the work. I don't hear any second guitar lead.
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Post by sayne on Nov 27, 2009 20:14:23 GMT -5
Serious question. Do you actually need a re-mastered copy to hear all this? Surely if you start listening to whole tracks / albums just one speaker at a time you're going to start hearing things lower down in the mix that you hadn't noticed before. Do the 1987 copies not reveal what you are describing when you separate the two stereo channels? Thanks a lot. I wish I had asked those questions BEFORE I mortgaged the house to buy the sets. But, I'll go back and listen to the '87s.
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Post by sayne on Nov 28, 2009 22:43:30 GMT -5
Serious question. Do you actually need a re-mastered copy to hear all this? Surely if you start listening to whole tracks / albums just one speaker at a time you're going to start hearing things lower down in the mix that you hadn't noticed before. Do the 1987 copies not reveal what you are describing when you separate the two stereo channels? You're basically right. I'm not trying to imply that the remasters are significantly different than previous CDs. I know we will have to wait for remixes for that to happen. But, things like the piano in "Martha My Dear" do seem to be more noticeable to my ears in the remasters than before. Not way up in the mix, mind you, but less hidden, if slightly.
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Post by sayne on Nov 28, 2009 22:58:16 GMT -5
. . . a lead guitar part supposedly laid down by Lennon a few days before Clapton came into the studio(though I cannot discern it) . . . I don't hear any second guitar lead. I hear it, ever so in the background and short, but I hear it. Maybe in the mixing it was on a track with something else, and they could not remove it without taking something else out that they DID want to keep. Maybe they added something else to try to mask it a bit, but I don't think it's my imagination. Or, maybe I've heard George jam with Eric so much in other recordings that I'm hearing a phantom lead. Now, THAT's an interesting theory!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 6:31:37 GMT -5
My ears were surprised at how little difference remastering makes.
It's one of the music industries few remaining money making ploys....
Whats next for us eager Beatle aficionado's
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