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Post by vectisfabber on Sept 24, 2009 6:37:44 GMT -5
That would be great! A perfect companion piece to my original b/w AHDN, my AHDN in original 4:3 ratio but with stereo music masters, and my remastered AHDN with original mono sound but widescreen aspect ratio!
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Post by Beatle Bob on Sept 24, 2009 7:57:03 GMT -5
I'm quite happy to watch a colourised King Kong as long as the original is still out there . . . Enjoy the colorized "A Hard Days Night", then. To each his own. Remember on Anthology where Apple colorized the black and white video of "All You Need Is Love"? Damn good job with 90's technology! Imagine with technology 10+ years advanced how good today's colorization can look! It's finally starting to come into it's own now. Look at the recent work done on It's A Wonderful Life. Remarkable work and it was issued on DVD along with the black and white version so the colorizied version would never superceed and replace the original black and white version. Smart move. Regards, Beatle Bob
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 24, 2009 11:37:14 GMT -5
I'd be all for a good colorization of AHDN as long as the original B & W remains available.
I have always wanted to see The Wizard Of Oz inverted where the Kansas scenes are in color and the fantasy scenes in B & W. Spoiler Alert: We don't dream in color do we?
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Post by beatleroadie on Sept 24, 2009 12:50:42 GMT -5
Why color AHDN? That was an artistic choice made in 1964. Obviously it could have been filmed in color if Dick Lester wanted to do that, but he didn't. It's supposed to have a documentary film feel, and most documentaries made in the '60s were B&W.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 24, 2009 12:52:50 GMT -5
Why color AHDN? That was an artistic choice made in 1964. Obviously it could have been filmed in color if Dick Lester wanted to do that, but he didn't. It's supposed to have a documentary film feel, and most documentaries made in the '60s were B&W. Exactly. And it also fits the feeling of Liverpool, England.
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Post by Beatle Bob on Sept 24, 2009 13:12:17 GMT -5
I agree it was an artistic choice and it does reflect the times where black and white was still prevelant as a standard, for tv, newsreels and movies still were made in black and white, though yearly loosing out to color film stock as black and white was becoming more expensive (for the silver nitrate I think?) and the price of color film was now becoming competetive. It's not like there was never color photos or film or video of the Beatles. When you see those, it does seem to make them more modern and less distant. Black and white always seems old and far away. What I do like about colorization is when you take something so old -- where it's story or actors or characters can be enhanced--and where it brings a new generation of fans waiting to discover it -- whom otherwise wouldn't. Colorizing a good movie doesn't ruin the story and for these young kids who can't handle black and white ("it's old") it's a way of getting them to appreciate a film they'd normally avoid. If that's the avenue to bring them in to watching lets say, the Three Stooges or It's A Wonderful Life, then I say....keep it up. More. Regards, Beatle Bob
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 24, 2009 13:52:32 GMT -5
What I do like about colorization is when you take something so old -- where it's story or actors or characters can be enhanced--and where it brings a new generation of fans waiting to discover it -- whom otherwise wouldn't. Colorizing a good movie doesn't ruin the story and for these young kids who can't handle black and white ("it's old") it's a way of getting them to appreciate a film they'd normally avoid. If that's the avenue to bring them in to watching lets say, the Three Stooges or It's A Wonderful Life, then I say....keep it up. More. Bob - as I always say, I'm a big movie fan and the talks about colorization do go both ways all the time on those movie boards... but while I am all for younger people gaining an appreciation for old things, it's always been my opinion that we shouldn't "dumb down" things for them. I think what needs to happen is for kids to become more sophisticated and learn to appreciate black and white films, old music, whatever it may be. Interesting that you named The Three Stooges, though; their short films were colorized a while back but didn't do great business; on the other hand, all of their films are now being released "properly" in their original black and white status on chronological DVD collections, and there are reports from many members about how their children love the Stooges - even in black and white!
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Post by Beatle Bob on Sept 24, 2009 14:14:49 GMT -5
What I do like about colorization is when you take something so old -- where it's story or actors or characters can be enhanced--and where it brings a new generation of fans waiting to discover it -- whom otherwise wouldn't. Colorizing a good movie doesn't ruin the story and for these young kids who can't handle black and white ("it's old") it's a way of getting them to appreciate a film they'd normally avoid. If that's the avenue to bring them in to watching lets say, the Three Stooges or It's A Wonderful Life, then I say....keep it up. More. Bob - as I always say, I'm a big movie fan and the talks about colorization do go both ways all the time on those movie boards... but while I am all for younger people gaining an appreciation for old things, it's always been my opinion that we shouldn't "dumb down" things for them. I think what needs to happen is for kids to become more sophisticated and learn to appreciate black and white films, old music, whatever it may be. Interesting that you named The Three Stooges, though; their short films were colorized a while back but didn't do great business; on the other hand, all of their films are now being released "properly" in their original black and white status on chronological DVD collections, and there are reports from many members about how their children love the Stooges - even in black and white! So far, I have the complete Three Stooges DVD sets put out chronologically by Sony. Kudos for them for doing it right. I always thought of myself as film "purist". I collect old silent and early 30's and 40's comedies on DVD. Though I did buy the newest Stooges colorizations (that they put a few years back) and I was shocked! It impressed me and changed my mind forever that colorization now, can work. The old colorizations done in the 80's were horrid. But the new process was stunning imo. Not perfect, but it reminded me of old movies done in technicolor before remastering for current DVD releases. I don't thing it's dumbing it down for the kids, but it's a perception thing with them. I know my kids do think anything in black and white is old. Even if it's a new movie or photo. If it's in black and white, to them "it's old" (unfortunately). So like I said, if it's the way I can get them to watch an old movie and make it seem more modern and it breaks down their resistance to watching it, then I'm all for it. But never, never delete the original black and white version making the colorized version the standard issue. Regards, Beatle Bob
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 24, 2009 14:36:06 GMT -5
Though I did buy the newest Stooges colorizations (that they put a few years back) and I was shocked! It impressed me and changed my mind forever that colorization now, can work. The old colorizations done in the 80's were horrid. But the new process was stunning imo. Well, I will say I was very impressed by a recent colorized episode of THE MUNSTERS:
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Post by Beatle Bob on Sept 24, 2009 14:41:55 GMT -5
Though I did buy the newest Stooges colorizations (that they put a few years back) and I was shocked! It impressed me and changed my mind forever that colorization now, can work. The old colorizations done in the 80's were horrid. But the new process was stunning imo. Well, I will say I was very impressed by a recent colorized episode of THE MUNSTERS: Wasn't some Bewitched episodes done that got rave reviews too? Regards, Beatle Bob
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Post by beatleroadie on Sept 24, 2009 14:42:15 GMT -5
>>Colorizing a good movie doesn't ruin the story and for these young kids who can't handle black and white ("it's old") it's a way of getting them to appreciate a film they'd normally avoid.<<
But that's the thing Bob, if it's just a small slice of kids/young people who haven't gotten to the point where they appreciate B&W films yet, then why would The Beatles stoop to cater to this demographic?
I'm in my 20s and for a time in high school I would get somewhat "bored" with B&W, but around 20 or 21 I started really appreciating the beauty of the images. I think a lot of people are the same way...not liking B&W to me is a phase (do those same people not look at B&W photos? Are black and/or white objects boring to them? no!) that most people grow out of...So why cater to those who don't while making those who do cringe? Doesn't make sense.
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Post by Beatle Bob on Sept 24, 2009 14:46:18 GMT -5
&So why cater to those who don't while making those who do cringe? Doesn't make sense. That's why (like I said) you don't delete the original black and white version making the colorized the standard issue. Choice ain't bad and it caters to everyone. Oh and I wouldn't be worried about colorization. It's not gonna happen on a mass-scale and has proven not to be very successful in terms of wide-scale acceptance. Regard, Beatle Bob
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 24, 2009 14:57:28 GMT -5
Wasn't some Bewitched episodes done that got rave reviews too? Yeah, some were colorized as well as I DREAM OF JEANNIE. I recall looking at Coming Atractions for these and I didn't even know I was looking at colorized season clips until the end of the commercial. But when I bought my first season of IDOJ, I had a choice of black and white or colorized; I went with the original black & white, being a purist in these sort of things. One of the problems with colorizing for me is that someone has to make an arbitrary "guess" as to what color certain things might have been (even if it's just a tablecloth or some wallpaper). And that's just wrong to me.
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Post by Beatle Bob on Sept 24, 2009 14:58:49 GMT -5
[One of the problems with colorizing for me is that someone has to make an arbitrary "guess" as to what color certain things might have been (even if it's just a tablecloth or some wallpaper). And that's just wrong to me. The good thing is we (the viewer) don't know either ;D Regards, Beatle Bob
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Post by Cosmos on Sept 24, 2009 15:09:47 GMT -5
I'd be all for a good colorization of AHDN as long as the original B & W remains available. I have always wanted to see The Wizard Of Oz inverted where the Kansas scenes are in color and the fantasy scenes in B & W. Spoiler Alert: We don't dream in color do we? Not exactly as radical as what you have in mind, JSD, but there IS a four-disc Blu-Ray "Wizard of Oz" set coming out very soon! I just hope that they use the re-mastered version of "Dark Side of the Moon" for disc four... ;D
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Post by beatleroadie on Sept 24, 2009 20:42:37 GMT -5
Bob, do you honestly think Apple would turn a profit on a colorized AHDN? I don't know how much it would cost to recolor an entire feature length movie, but it can't be cheap, plus add in advertising and marketing costs on top of that, and for what? Who's going to buy it??? Teenagers won't all of a sudden run out and get it, and you'll have plenty of original Beatles fans and film buffs out in force against this thing or even worse making jokes about Apple looking desperate. Someone will interview Dick Lester about it and there's no way he'll say it's a good idea. If you think the pre-backlash for this new 3D CGI Yellow Submarine movie has been bad, just wait till they try to colorize AHDN!
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Sept 24, 2009 21:32:41 GMT -5
Bob - as I always say, I'm a big movie fan and the talks about colorization do go both ways all the time on those movie boards... but while I am all for younger people gaining an appreciation for old things, it's always been my opinion that we shouldn't "dumb down" things for them. I think what needs to happen is for kids to become more sophisticated and learn to appreciate black and white films, old music, whatever it may be. Interesting that you named The Three Stooges, though; their short films were colorized a while back but didn't do great business; on the other hand, all of their films are now being released "properly" in their original black and white status on chronological DVD collections, and there are reports from many members about how their children love the Stooges - even in black and white! So far, I have the complete Three Stooges DVD sets put out chronologically by Sony. Kudos for them for doing it right. I always thought of myself as film "purist". I collect old silent and early 30's and 40's comedies on DVD. Though I did buy the newest Stooges colorizations (that they put a few years back) and I was shocked! It impressed me and changed my mind forever that colorization now, can work. The old colorizations done in the 80's were horrid. But the new process was stunning imo. Not perfect, but it reminded me of old movies done in technicolor before remastering for current DVD releases. I don't thing it's dumbing it down for the kids, but it's a perception thing with them. I know my kids do think anything in black and white is old. Even if it's a new movie or photo. If it's in black and white, to them "it's old" (unfortunately). So like I said, if it's the way I can get them to watch an old movie and make it seem more modern and it breaks down their resistance to watching it, then I'm all for it. But never, never delete the original black and white version making the colorized version the standard issue. Regards, Beatle Bob Bob: Did you get the colorizations of the public domain shorts? ("Disorder in the Court," "Brideless Groom," "Sing a Song of Six Pants," "Malice in the Palace")? They did an excellent job with those. Even better, they had upgrades of the film quality. If you don't have it, that's the one to get.
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Post by Beatle Bob on Sept 24, 2009 21:36:27 GMT -5
Bob, do you honestly think Apple would turn a profit on a colorized AHDN? I don't know how much it would cost to recolor an entire feature length movie, but it can't be cheap, plus add in advertising and marketing costs on top of that, and for what? Who's going to buy it??? Teenagers won't all of a sudden run out and get it, and you'll have plenty of original Beatles fans and film buffs out in force against this thing or even worse making jokes about Apple looking desperate. Someone will interview Dick Lester about it and there's no way he'll say it's a good idea. If you think the pre-backlash for this new 3D CGI Yellow Submarine movie has been bad, just wait till they try to colorize AHDN! If you read my post I wasn't necessarily talking about AHDN, but older films that could benefit from it. Even if AHDN was colorized I NEVER said anything about them conceivably making a profit. I said " It's not gonna happen on a mass-scale and has proven not to be very successful in terms of wide-scale acceptance". Regards, Beatle Bob
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Post by Beatle Bob on Sept 24, 2009 21:38:26 GMT -5
So far, I have the complete Three Stooges DVD sets put out chronologically by Sony. Kudos for them for doing it right. I always thought of myself as film "purist". I collect old silent and early 30's and 40's comedies on DVD. Though I did buy the newest Stooges colorizations (that they put a few years back) and I was shocked! It impressed me and changed my mind forever that colorization now, can work. The old colorizations done in the 80's were horrid. But the new process was stunning imo. Not perfect, but it reminded me of old movies done in technicolor before remastering for current DVD releases. I don't thing it's dumbing it down for the kids, but it's a perception thing with them. I know my kids do think anything in black and white is old. Even if it's a new movie or photo. If it's in black and white, to them "it's old" (unfortunately). So like I said, if it's the way I can get them to watch an old movie and make it seem more modern and it breaks down their resistance to watching it, then I'm all for it. But never, never delete the original black and white version making the colorized version the standard issue. Regards, Beatle Bob Bob: Did you get the colorizations of the public domain shorts? ("Disorder in the Court," "Brideless Groom," "Sing a Song of Six Pants," "Malice in the Palace")? They did an excellent job with those. Even better, they had upgrades of the film quality. If you don't have it, that's the one to get. Steve I have those and they're good. But what Sony did was even better. You can still find the Sony colorized shorts and you'll see how much better they are from them, than the PD colorized shorts (yet those weren't bad!). Plus the Sony discs let you toggle between the colorized and b&w shorts while watching the short! All the best! Regards, Beatle Bob
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Post by mikev on Sept 25, 2009 0:08:10 GMT -5
Bob, do you honestly think Apple would turn a profit on a colorized AHDN? I don't know how much it would cost to recolor an entire feature length movie, but it can't be cheap, plus add in advertising and marketing costs on top of that, and for what? Who's going to buy it??? Teenagers won't all of a sudden run out and get it, and you'll have plenty of original Beatles fans and film buffs out in force against this thing or even worse making jokes about Apple looking desperate. Someone will interview Dick Lester about it and there's no way he'll say it's a good idea. If you think the pre-backlash for this new 3D CGI Yellow Submarine movie has been bad, just wait till they try to colorize AHDN! If you read my post I wasn't necessarily talking about AHDN, but older films that could benefit from it. Even if AHDN was colorized I NEVER said anything about them conceivably making a profit. I said " It's not gonna happen on a mass-scale and has proven not to be very successful in terms of wide-scale acceptance". Regards, Beatle Bob At this point-I would settle for a B & W version of Let it Be... ;D
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Post by sayne on Sept 25, 2009 0:13:05 GMT -5
I'd be all for a good colorization of AHDN as long as the original B & W remains available. I have always wanted to see The Wizard Of Oz inverted where the Kansas scenes are in color and the fantasy scenes in B & W. Spoiler Alert: We don't dream in color do we? Why don't you just take some acid, instead? ;D
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Post by Beatle Bob on Sept 25, 2009 7:17:08 GMT -5
If you read my post I wasn't necessarily talking about AHDN, but older films that could benefit from it. Even if AHDN was colorized I NEVER said anything about them conceivably making a profit. I said " It's not gonna happen on a mass-scale and has proven not to be very successful in terms of wide-scale acceptance". Regards, Beatle Bob At this point-I would settle for a B & W version of Let it Be... ;D Ba da dum! (Rimshot) "Touche"! Regards, Beatle Bob
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Post by mikev on Sept 25, 2009 11:24:24 GMT -5
At this point-I would settle for a B & W version of Let it Be... ;D Ba da dum! (Rimshot) "Touche"! Regards, Beatle Bob even though I was "quoting" your post- my sarcasm was in general aimed at the whole thread. BTW-I do own an official VHS copy of the movie (Let it Be), with all of its grainyness and poor edits intact. It might as well be in B & W.
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 25, 2009 12:00:05 GMT -5
I'd be all for a good colorization of AHDN as long as the original B & W remains available. I have always wanted to see The Wizard Of Oz inverted where the Kansas scenes are in color and the fantasy scenes in B & W. Spoiler Alert: We don't dream in color do we? Why don't you just take some acid, instead? ;D Only if it is pharmaceutical grade quality!
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Post by Blackguard on Apr 18, 2011 15:50:01 GMT -5
Sometimes on a subject like this people get caught up in the minutia of it all. What may be a prime concern to them may or may not be corrected in the next release, and then the inconsolable will will be heard.
On September 9. 2009 I bought my first three copies of the remasters. I started with The White Album, Past Masters and Magical Mystery Tour. The first track I played was Revolution 9, because I wanted to hear "Number 9, Number 9, Number 9" on 9/9/09. No significance to it, it was very amusing to me to start listening to them with that opening.
To be honest I haven't played the remasters next to the original CDs. I'd rather listen to the music over the mix. Granted a good mix enhances the song, but at first I listen to the music. After that then maybe I'll listen to what instrument is placed where and how loud or soft it is. If you spend to much time examining the song you spend less time enjoying it.
Sometimes a ragged mix is the best mix. Ok, now that you're done scratching your head over that, I'll have to explain the logic behind the statement. Several years back I ran to the store to get a copy of the newly released Head First by Badfinger. being a huge Badfinger fan I needed that CD to round out the collection. I put in on after getting back home and walked out of the room to make a sandwich. Hearing to the CD outside of the listening environment gave me the impression Badfinger was playing live in the next room. The rawness of the mix and unfinished production on Head First adds a texture to it that is very appealing. Kind of like Let It Be...Naked with a little less polish.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Apr 18, 2011 19:08:12 GMT -5
Sometimes on a subject like this people get caught up in the minutia of it all. What may be a prime concern to them may or may not be corrected in the next release, and then the inconsolable will will be heard. On September 9. 2009 I bought my first three copies of the remasters. I started with The White Album, Past Masters and Magical Mystery Tour. The first track I played was Revolution 9, because I wanted to hear "Number 9, Number 9, Number 9" on 9/9/09. No significance to it, it was very amusing to me to start listening to them with that opening. To be honest I haven't played the remasters next to the original CDs. I'd rather listen to the music over the mix. Granted a good mix enhances the song, but at first I listen to the music. After that then maybe I'll listen to what instrument is placed where and how loud or soft it is. If you spend to much time examining the song you spend less time enjoying it. Sometimes a ragged mix is the best mix. Ok, now that you're done scratching your head over that, I'll have to explain the logic behind the statement. Several years back I ran to the store to get a copy of the newly released Head First by Badfinger. being a huge Badfinger fan I needed that CD to round out the collection. I put in on after getting back home and walked out of the room to make a sandwich. Hearing to the CD outside of the listening environment gave me the impression Badfinger was playing live in the next room. The rawness of the mix and unfinished production on Head First adds a texture to it that is very appealing. Kind of like Let It Be...Naked with a little less polish. The re-mastered '09 White Album CD is miles better than the original CD released in 1987. In fact, I would dare say it was the most improved album of them all sound-wise when released in '09. The '87 White Album mix was IMO the worst Beatles CD ever released. It was so bad I went back to listening to the vinyl I bought in '68 until the remaster came out in '09.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 19:57:02 GMT -5
The funny irony is, that, at the end of history (after all these remasters and -now- *REMIXES*): the CAPITOL copies will probably come full circle and wind-up being the only proliferate-enough examples to have actually been made in the '60s ! As for AHDN "in color": there was no way a $400,000 teeny-bop movie (full of unknowns...when the deal was made in late 1963 between: UA/Walter Shenson/Lester/Epstein) would've been produced in color. It sure got attention obviously(!),though, when it started steamrolling and racked-up nearly $2-million in a year and nearly $10-million by the end of just 1966.
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