|
Post by winstonoboogie on Dec 13, 2009 19:44:24 GMT -5
Thank you for that information, ursa. I am still convinced that John was killed by a mentally disturbed (but not mentally insane for purposes of eluding culpability) fan based on what I have heard or read since December 8, 1980. I am fascinated by this topic and will read any academic source not associated with the internet fringe. My parents' and my first question on December 9, 1980 was how could MDC afford to make the repeated trips he did from Hawaii to NYC on the income of a sporadically employed security guard? It was reported early on that he was found with a lot of cash on him but I have not seen that confirmed in subsequent years. What was the MDC money trail? As to George's attack, how can you of all people, ursa, say that it was "cut and dried?" Sure, there is little doubt on the I.D. of the attacker but what motivated him? Witches? Really. How did this relatively unsophisticated, unemployed man break into the second most secured residence in the UK, second only to Buckingham Palace? No way does that happen by luck. In the least it was an inside job by a disgruntled employee but darker yet it could go to the highest realms within the Clinton/Blair governments who wanted to harm the next most subversive Beatle. George's attack injuries did not immediately kill him but they greatly weakened a man fighting cancer. John turned Western youth onto drugs and radical politics and George turned them onto exotic Eastern religion and philosophy. The good news is that Paul and Ringo are safe as milk as Ringo is, well just Ringo the luckiest man in history, and Paul, as the Prince of candy pop, has nothing to fear from the powers that be. Also with MDC, didn't he buy a gun from Hawaii ? If he did how did he get it into the US ? Did he say to customs "that's not a gun in my pocket, I'm just hapy to see you" and they let him through ?
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Dec 13, 2009 22:43:24 GMT -5
Also with MDC, didn't he buy a gun from Hawaii ? If he did how did he get it into the US ? Did he say to customs "that's not a gun in my pocket, I'm just hapy to see you" and they let him through ? Hawaii is a State within the United States so there would be no customs. This was almost 21 years before 9-11 so screening of luggage wasn't nearly as tight even for inter-state travel. I've read he simply snuck it into New York which had tougher handgun laws than other States. That part is no mystery at all.
|
|
|
Post by ursamajor on Dec 13, 2009 22:59:03 GMT -5
Also with MDC, didn't he buy a gun from Hawaii ? If he did how did he get it into the US ? Did he say to customs "that's not a gun in my pocket, I'm just hapy to see you" and they let him through ? Hawaii is a State within the United States so there would be no customs. This was almost 21 years before 9-11 so screening of luggage wasn't nearly as tight even for inter-state travel. I've read he simply snuck it into New York which had tougher handgun laws than other States. That part is no mystery at all. Ouch !!! I went to the States last year and short of a retina scan and the rubber glove treatment it was the worst experience I've ever had at an airport. This was New York from Montreal and then leaving Detroit to Tokyo. What was strange is that they do it on the way in and on the way out. The best was a beam me up Scotty glass tube and some sort of gases are blown in, I think it's to test for explosives. A definite what is the world coming to moment but I guess if it catches one "pycho killer - run run run away " then it's worth it.
|
|
|
Post by OldFred on Dec 14, 2009 6:08:05 GMT -5
What John D. said is very true. Airport security was much more lax in the pre-9/11 days, and we're talking about 1980. And he's also correct in regard to Hawaii being a state within the United States, so the jerk of all jerks sadly had little trouble bringing in a gun.
|
|
|
Post by ursamajor on Dec 14, 2009 18:39:56 GMT -5
What John D. said is very true. Airport searching was much more lax in the pre-9/11 days, and we're talking about 1980. And he's also correct in regard to Hawaii being a state within the United States, so the jerk of all jerks sadly had little trouble bringing in a gun. Unless he never brought one in. My theory on John's shooting is that it was someone else. Mainly due to the wounds on John and the position that MDC was supposedly standing. It doesn't correlate. The NY Times initial story was changed the following day which is abit suspect , imo. The Catcher In the Rye was used to trigger MDC into believing he shot John. The one person who would know would be the guard at the booth. He's the one who supposedly said there was an altercation between John and MDC, that MDC apparently called out to John. MDC has always denied this and has never been proven insane. Also, if he was insane why not shoot Yoko as well, why just John ? Why wait around for days ? Why didn't he shoot himself afterwards ? That's what these people normally do. Larry King even said himself, one day the truth about John's murder will come out, so I guess the people in high places already know. Looking back the thing that sticks out for me is why John stayed in New York ? His friends were Fred Seaman and Elliot Mintz that look like a bunch of creeps. He pushed away all his rock friends for these dweebs ? I also question why he gave Yoko so much power over his finances. Fred Seaman's book paints John as a depressed and frustrated guy but he later said not all the stuff in his book is true, so I guess we'll never really know the true John during this period.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 15, 2009 15:57:53 GMT -5
Sorry, but this thread is ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Dec 15, 2009 19:52:50 GMT -5
Sorry, but this thread is ridiculous. Joe, I was hoping that you would jump in! Help us "single gunman" believers out! I say the killer was MDC alone who was not all there mentally but certainly still knew what was right and what was wrong.
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Dec 16, 2009 5:49:02 GMT -5
Conspiracy theories are great fun, but sometimes something simply is what it is.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2009 17:27:28 GMT -5
Piffle...yes......but a good thread nonetheless......
keep going with the entertaining prose,i'm enjoying it....
;D
|
|
|
Post by OldFred on Dec 19, 2009 18:25:13 GMT -5
Piffle...yes......but a good thread nonetheless...... keep going with the entertaining prose,i'm enjoying it.... ;D I'm afraid our amature status has been compromised as it appears we've been infiltrated by prose. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Jan 17, 2010 8:40:29 GMT -5
Hold on you're a lawyer yet you are able to accept John's murder without : 1. a trial, testimony or witnesses 2. a police report of little value 3. an autopsy report suppressed from public view 4. MDC has never been declared insane by any government body - federal or local, so this "deranged fan MDC " that you always hear in reports is used to fuel public perception of MDC a a loony There was no trial because MDC pleaded guilty (after all, was it not his goal to be popular through Lennon's murder?) ... he was not insane, he knew precisely what he was doing when he calculated and carefully planned John's murder. For a time he may have considered going with the "insanity defense" but in the end, the killer decided to confront what he had done, and not excuse it or try to get off by "faking insanity". He accepted this fate, chose to pay for his crime, and to this day has said he doesn't think he'll ever get out of prison and really thinks that's where he belongs . You should read the book LET ME TAKE YOU DOWN (by Jack Jones), or watch any of the interviews with MDC, like Larry King or Barbara Walters. It's all obvious that he was the depressed, mixed up, lone killer who sought to murder a big famous person in order "to be somebody". And there was at least one witness -- the doorman. He kicked the gun away and MDC was asked "do you know what you've done?" and he replied "I just shot John Lennon". JSD is so right on the money about John not being political anymore. By 1980 all of that was long over and done with, and Lennon was just a family guy making domestic music. But what happens is, there are always people who love conspiracy theories, like to make something out of nothing, play detective and try to put pieces together and form something else. Happens all the time, it's like a hobby for them.
|
|