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Post by OldFred on Aug 27, 2008 19:31:21 GMT -5
This is in answer to the 'Not Really Off-Topic' thread which referenced Brian Wilson's influence on the Beatles' music. I posted this article on the old board in 2006 and thought it a good idea to revisit it again. For copyright issues, it's under my real name. (And no, I'm not the one who wrote Ringo's song 'Weight Of The World'). Smile Into Chaos: A Observation by Old FredBefore the Beatles came on the scene in America in 1964, the top vocal group in the USA was the Beach Boys. The Beach Boys had a string of number one hits, highlighting their incredible harmonies. Only Frankie Vallee and The Four Seasons were their closest rivals before the Fabs landed on these shores. Once the Beatles arrived and started to conquer America and the World, the Beach Boys’ resident genius, Brian Wilson, felt a natural urge to compete with them. Once the Beatles had thrown down the gauntlet, Brian decided to take up the challenge. ‘The Beach Boys Today’ album was his first major salvo. The album’s second side featured a suite of songs that were loosely connected into a theme, recognized today as a predecessor to Brian’s magnum opus, ‘Pet Sounds’. The Beatles, in particular Paul McCartney, took close notice. Late in 1965, ‘Rubber Soul’ was released, the first major Beatles album to be worthy of notice by serious music critics. Brian Wilson heard it and knew he had to make something better. By this time, he had quit touring with the Beach Boys and was now focused as the band’s producer. Using the best studio musicians in L.A., The Wrecking Crew, and blending in the Beach Boys melodious harmonies, Brian created ‘Pet Sounds’, recognized as one of the greatest rock albums ever. McCartney heard this, especially the track ‘God Only Knows’, and the wheels started to spin for what would soon become one of the most influential records of all time. Brian in the meantime, had already released the incredible ‘Good Vibrations’ single, and then began work on what he considered his masterpiece, ‘Smile’. Prior to the release of ‘Pepper’, the Beatles countered with the one-two punch of the double A-Side single ‘Strawberry Fields Forever’/’Penny Lane’. Unfortunately, drugs, paranoia, apathy from the Beach Boys and financial conflicts with Capitol Records, caused countless delays on the ‘Smile’ project. The Beach Boys' rejection of the work Brian had already done, especially Mike Love’s questioning of Van Dyke Park’s lyrics which caused Parks to leave the project, helped to break Brian’s fragile state of mind. Then, ‘Sgt. Pepper’ came out, changing everything in the music industry. Brian felt he had lost the race he had with the Beatles, and ‘Smile’ was abandoned, existing only as fragments that were spread out over later Beach Boys albums, with most of the tapes languishing in the vaults, bits and pieces leaking out on bootlegs over the years. It would be many years before Brian would be able to stand on his feet again as a creative artist, reemerging with his critically acclaimed ‘Brian Wilson’ album in 1988, and later making a surprising return as a concert performer. By 2003, Brian was artistically motivated enough to reconsider ‘Smile’ and finally finished his masterpiece. The new ‘Smile’ has been widely acclaimed, and even won Brian a Grammy Award for best Instrumental Track’ (‘Mrs. O’Leary’s Cow’). The ‘Smile’ concerts have been sold out events. Opening night in England was attended by Paul McCartney. My thought at the time the new ‘Smile’ came out was: McCartney was inspired to create ‘Sgt. Pepper’ by ‘Pet Sounds’. Would ‘Smile’ inspire him to create some interesting music again? It seems the question was answered by the release of McCartney’s latest album, ‘Chaos and Creation in the Backyard’. ‘Chaos’ has been critically acclaimed as McCartney’s best work in years, rivaling ‘Band on the Run’, ‘Tug of War’ and ‘Flaming Pie’. Using a producer who actually had the effrontery of challenging him, McCartney put out music that was as good as the best of his solo and Beatles work. Some have even commented that some of the tracks could have fit in very easily onto the ‘White Album’. The album was even nominated for a Grammy this year. While it didn’t win, just the nomination alone was recognition enough of some of McCartney’s most important music in years. Into the 21st Century, it looks like Brian Wilson and Paul McCartney are still friendly rivals and competitors. Fred Velez, 2006
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Post by winstonoboogie on Aug 27, 2008 19:35:47 GMT -5
Thanks for (re) posting that, Fred! Tom (aka W. O'B.) P.S. Break a leg!
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Post by theoak on Aug 28, 2008 12:14:29 GMT -5
I would disagree that C & C was "as good as the best of his solo and BEATLES work". Solo? Perhaps (although I believe its weaker than early 70's McCartney). As good as his best Beatles work? Not even close.
I do appreciate the article though.
Thanks
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Post by OldFred on Aug 28, 2008 17:02:17 GMT -5
I would disagree that C & C was "as good as the best of his solo and BEATLES work". Solo? Perhaps (although I believe its weaker than early 70's McCartney). As good as his best Beatles work? Not even close. I do appreciate the article though. Thanks Would you at least agree that 'Jenny Wren' is up to the quality of a 'Yesterday' or 'Eleanor Rigby'?
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Post by John S. Damm on Aug 28, 2008 22:54:18 GMT -5
[ (And no, I'm not the one who wrote Ringo's song 'Weight Of The World'). [/i] [/quote] Why are you so bashful about that Oldfred? It is not your fault that Ringo couldn't get a number 1 on such a great song. Right song, wrong artist. For you posters that weren't on the old Board, Google the songwriting credits for "Weight of The World." Do some sleuthing here and find OldFred's real name. Add to that that OldFred is involved in many New York City musical productions and plays, knows Madison Square Garden like the back of his hand and is on a first name basis with all of the original Monkees and then tell me that this is just a coincidence! I would encourage folks to p.m. OldFred asking he procure for them Ringo's autograph! I think that is why OldFred started to disclaim writing that wonderful song: the attempts to use Fred to get to Ringo!
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Joseph McCabe
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A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Aug 29, 2008 1:51:06 GMT -5
Would you at least agree that 'Jenny Wren' is up to the quality of a 'Yesterday' or 'Eleanor Rigby'? Some questions in life are tough: is induction justifiable?, for example. Or, (to pick another example totally at random ), why do some folk believe in a god or gods? Most peculiar. However, and on the other hand, contrariwise, some questions are ludicrously easy to answer. The question as to whether Jenny Wren is up to the standard of Yesterday or E Rigby, the answer is simple and straighforward. It's " No".
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Post by OldFred on Aug 29, 2008 5:41:45 GMT -5
The question was respectfully directed at TheOak.
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Post by theoak on Aug 29, 2008 11:47:38 GMT -5
I would disagree that C & C was "as good as the best of his solo and BEATLES work". Solo? Perhaps (although I believe its weaker than early 70's McCartney). As good as his best Beatles work? Not even close. I do appreciate the article though. Thanks Would you at least agree that 'Jenny Wren' is up to the quality of a 'Yesterday' or 'Eleanor Rigby'? I love Jenny Wren. However, it is a facsimile of the superior Blackbird. It imitates it in style, lyrics, and production. The greatest Beatles material was innovative. Eleanor Rigby and its use of strings. Yesterday with its arrangement of acoustic guitar and strings (copied by so many alt. groups today). Yesterday also has superior lyrics and melody compared to Jenny Wren. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Jenny Wren, and was so glad to hear Paul return to his Beatles roots. But, I think it is a lesser copy of Blackbird, and the only track on that album that can be mentioned in the same breath as Paul's Beatles' material. I did enjoy the article OldFred, and have always enjoyed your contributions here. Paul was light years ahead of his past twenty years with his C & C work, but it did not come near to Beatles' work. imo.
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Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Aug 29, 2008 15:57:02 GMT -5
The question was respectfully directed at TheOak. Yes, but it's a public forum. And the answer is still "no".
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Post by OldFred on Aug 29, 2008 16:03:42 GMT -5
Would you at least agree that 'Jenny Wren' is up to the quality of a 'Yesterday' or 'Eleanor Rigby'? I love Jenny Wren. However, it is a facsimile of the superior Blackbird. It imitates it in style, lyrics, and production. The greatest Beatles material was innovative. Eleanor Rigby and its use of strings. Yesterday with its arrangement of acoustic guitar and strings (copied by so many alt. groups today). Yesterday also has superior lyrics and melody compared to Jenny Wren. Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Jenny Wren, and was so glad to hear Paul return to his Beatles roots. But, I think it is a lesser copy of Blackbird, and the only track on that album that can be mentioned in the same breath as Paul's Beatles' material. I did enjoy the article OldFred, and have always enjoyed your contributions here. Paul was light years ahead of his past twenty years with his C & C work, but it did not come near to Beatles' work. imo. Thank you Oak. I respect your opinion which was very thoughtful and detailed and I thank you for your kind words about my article. I really appreciate that. Cheers, Old Fred
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Post by John S. Damm on Aug 30, 2008 0:16:43 GMT -5
Paul was light years ahead of his past twenty years with his C & C work, but it did not come near to Beatles' work. imo. I view Paul's greatest batch of Beatles' songs to be his contributions to Revolver. Not a weak one in that group. I likewise view Paul's collection of songs on Chaos to be Paul's equivalent to his Revolver tracks but as a 63 year old man(or whatever he was back then) who is a little bit older and a little bit wiser. So yes, I think that Chaos stands up to Paul's best Beatles' work. I am not saying that the Chaos songs would work as Beatles' tracks because Paul was what, 24 in 1966 and 60-something with Chaos.
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Post by OldFred on Aug 30, 2008 5:16:39 GMT -5
Paul was light years ahead of his past twenty years with his C & C work, but it did not come near to Beatles' work. imo. I view Paul's greatest batch of Beatles' songs to be his contributions to Revolver. Not a weak one in that group. I likewise view Paul's collection of songs on Chaos to be Paul's equivalent to his Revolver tracks but as a 63 year old man(or whatever he was back then) who is a little bit older and a little bit wiser. So yes, I think that Chaos stands up to Paul's best Beatles' work. I am not saying that the Chaos songs would work as Beatles' tracks because Paul was what, 24 in 1966 and 60-something with Chaos. Very good observation, John.
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Post by mikev on Aug 30, 2008 7:34:09 GMT -5
I think Paul melodically is as good as he ever was if not better. He arranges some songs with complexities that do bring back memories of Revolver and some even get more intricate.
I do think he gives himself too much creative license in his lyric writing. "This is good enough-just like movement is on your shoulder". "1-2-3-4-5 let's go for a drive".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2008 18:45:24 GMT -5
I still maintain one of the attractions of Chaos was it was a decent album but more than that it was the follow up to Driving Rain,the Turkey of Paul's career.
Just when fans and critics thought Paul had run out of songs and ideas after listening to D.R. he came out with Chaos and redeemed himself somewhat.
It's too bad for Brian Wilson that he ended so drug affected because he was musically gifted enough to keep upping the ante but once he went off the rails that was the end of the rivalry......
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Post by OldFred on Aug 30, 2008 19:28:14 GMT -5
I still maintain one of the attractions of Chaos was it was a decent album but more than that it was the follow up to Driving Rain,the Turkey of Paul's career. Just when fans and critics thought Paul had run out of songs and ideas after listening to D.R. he came out with Chaos and redeemed himself somewhat. It's too bad for Brian Wilson that he ended so drug affected because he was musically gifted enough to keep upping the ante but once he went off the rails that was the end of the rivalry...... Re-read my article. I really believe that Brian's completed 2004 'Smile' album was a key to inspiring Paul to record 'Chaos and Creation in the Backyard' in 2005.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2008 19:47:02 GMT -5
I still maintain one of the attractions of Chaos was it was a decent album but more than that it was the follow up to Driving Rain,the Turkey of Paul's career. Just when fans and critics thought Paul had run out of songs and ideas after listening to D.R. he came out with Chaos and redeemed himself somewhat. It's too bad for Brian Wilson that he ended so drug affected because he was musically gifted enough to keep upping the ante but once he went off the rails that was the end of the rivalry...... Re-read my article. I really believe that Brian's completed 2004 'Smile' album was a key to inspiring Paul to record 'Chaos and Creation in the Backyard' in 2005. Fair point OldFred but i'm referring to Brian's career in total not just his ability to conclude Smile an eon after he first wrote it.I was also hinting that if he hadn't have ended up so pickled way back when he would have been able to continue to create quality music...
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Post by OldFred on Aug 30, 2008 19:59:24 GMT -5
Re-read my article. I really believe that Brian's completed 2004 'Smile' album was a key to inspiring Paul to record 'Chaos and Creation in the Backyard' in 2005. Fair point OldFred but i'm referring to Brian's career in total not just his ability to conclude Smile an eon after he first wrote it.I was also hinting that if he hadn't have ended up so pickled way back when he would have been able to continue to create quality music... Brian has continued as a creative artist. As noted in my article, after he got clean, he came back in 1988 with the self-titled 'Brian Wilson' album and in 1998 with 'Imagination'. In 1995 he reunited with his 'Smile' collaborator Van Dyke Parks for 'Orange Crate Art'. Several live CD's and DVD's were also released, including the live version of 'Pet Sounds'. Before the release of 'Smile' in 2004 he put out 'Getting In Over My Head', which features a duet with Paul McCartney on the song 'A Friend Like You'. Brian's brand new album, 'That Lucky Old Sun', comes out this coming Tuesday, September 2nd. It'll be released in both a regular CD and a limited edition CD/DVD combo. Brian is currently on tour promoting the album. The fact that Brian is still recording and touring is a happy testament to his survival spirit.
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Post by mikev on Aug 31, 2008 5:49:42 GMT -5
I find it amazing how he carries on while Dennis and Carl are gone. It is truly a shame that all of the survivors can't do more than a once every 10 years photo op.
I revisited the Smile DVD. Great stuff. Brian is more animated than other performances.
There is a DVD out there with the whole band from around '80, but that was before Brian was clean.
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Post by OldFred on Aug 31, 2008 6:08:16 GMT -5
I find it amazing how he carries on while Dennis and Carl are gone. It is truly a shame that all of the survivors can't do more than a once every 10 years photo op. I revisited the Smile DVD. Great stuff. Brian is more animated than other performances. There is a DVD out there with the whole band from around '80, but that was before Brian was clean. It is a shame. Carl Wilson was an excellent musician and blessed with one of the most beautiful voices in Pop music. Just listen to his lead vocal on 'God Only Knows' as proof of what a great talent he had. Beach Boys God Only Knows Brian wasn't the only musical genius in the Wilson family either. Dennis Wilson's only solo album, 'Pacific Ocean Blue', has just recently been issued along with a bonus disc of his unreleased second album 'Bambu'. Despite his wild man image in the Beach Boys, these recordings show that he was as musically creative as Brian. Definitely worth checking out.
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Post by mikev on Aug 31, 2008 8:43:58 GMT -5
Few know that Dennis was equally gifted with a voice as well as musicianship.
I may have to check out this CD.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Aug 31, 2008 9:42:02 GMT -5
Few know that Dennis was equally gifted with a voice as well as musicianship. I may have to check out this CD. It's a great CD. I bought the vinyl when it was first released. "River Song" remains one of my all-time favorite Beach Boys-related tracks.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Aug 31, 2008 9:43:48 GMT -5
I have an advance copy of the new Brian Wilson album. I plan to write about it tonight for tomorrow... first impressions ... it's very very good.
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Post by OldFred on Aug 31, 2008 12:35:21 GMT -5
Here's a preview of Brian Wilson's new album, 'That Lucky Old Sun'.
And here's Dennis Wilson singing 'Forever', which he wrote and is considered one of the most beautiful songs the Beach Boys ever recorded. Proof again Brian wasn't the only musical genius in the Beach Boys.
Dennis Wilson - Forever
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Post by OldFred on Sept 1, 2008 20:57:44 GMT -5
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Sept 1, 2008 21:14:47 GMT -5
If you saw, I reviewed it this a.m. ... guess I'll have to get their version, too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 8:31:44 GMT -5
If you saw, I reviewed it this a.m. ... guess I'll have to get their version, too. Where is your review Steve...i'd like to read it...
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Sept 2, 2008 10:37:21 GMT -5
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 2, 2008 22:27:12 GMT -5
I bought Brian Wilson's That Lucky Old Song from Best Buy today(09/02/08) for just $9.99 and it has the three bonus tracks as OldFred mentioned and Steve reported.
It is a delightful album. It is in a suite form like Smile and is a sunny joy. In fact, I wish it was released earlier in the summer. It is a great album for a sunny day or warm summer night.
Brian sounds really good. His band is first rate and as several of us have mentioned from our Brian concert experiences, they envelope and protect(some more cynical would say carry) Brian. They are perfect for him. Brian still handles the majority of lead vocals although Van Dyke Parks handles the couple of narratives and may sing lead in at least one place that is clearly not Brian.
I don't yet say that this is as good as Smile but I know that this will grow on me and become a favorite of mine among Brian's collection. It is overall much stronger than Wilson's earlier Gettin' In Over My Head although even that album had a few really strong tracks.
I think my three friends, Ron Nasty, gottafeelin and ChuckE, who took me to the proverbial woodshed and set me straight on Smile will all be very pleased with this new offering from the genius behind The Beach Boys.
Oh and Brian includes Carl and Dennis in his album's thanks but no Mike, Al or Bruce! Go figure. ;D
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Sept 2, 2008 22:30:26 GMT -5
I agree. It's one great album.
But your post reminds me that Ron Nasty isn't here. I've tried to drag that guy in and he won't come.
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ChuckE
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AlexE & RachelE, May '08
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Post by ChuckE on Sept 3, 2008 11:55:31 GMT -5
I bought That Lucky Old Sun at Best Buy yesterday. But because I bought the "deluxe" version with the DVD, I did not get the 3 bonus tracks. I'll probably look for those online somewhere, rather than shell out another $9.99 just to get them. I haven't watched the DVD yet. Wonder if it's the same show that was on VH-1 Classic last night from 8pm to 8:30pm (EDT)? NP: Aidan Smith, "Happiness Is A Warm Gun," MOJO Presents The White Album Recovered
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