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Post by Panther on Aug 1, 2011 16:41:29 GMT -5
For my 14th or 15th birthday (1991), my best friend bought me All Things Must Pass on CD. This was one of the older CD pressings, with the REAL album cover and the original track-listing. Like most people, I only listened to the 'Apple Jams' once.
Anyway, I was just thinking -- WHY DID GEORGE ISSUE A TRIPLE ALBUM?
Makes no sense. The logical thing would have been to make a double-set, which would have been tighter and more economical and please Apple/EMI more (easier to sell). Obviously, it was an enormous hit so no harm done, but still a strange decision.
Do you think George wanted to "out-do" the White Album by having one further disc? Or, did he think most listeners actually wanted a copy of the Apple Jam? Or, was it some way of hiding his insecurities about his singing or something? Just a strange career move.
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Post by mikev on Aug 1, 2011 17:08:27 GMT -5
For my 14th or 15th birthday (1991), my best friend bought me All Things Must Pass on CD. This was one of the older CD pressings, with the REAL album cover and the original track-listing. Like most people, I only listened to the 'Apple Jams' once. Anyway, I was just thinking -- WHY DID GEORGE ISSUE A TRIPLE ALBUM? Makes no sense. The logical thing would have been to make a double-set, which would have been tighter and more economical and please Apple/EMI more (easier to sell). Obviously, it was an enormous hit so no harm done, but still a strange decision. Do you think George wanted to "out-do" the White Album by having one further disc? Or, did he think most listeners actually wanted a copy of the Apple Jam? Or, was it some way of hiding his insecurities about his singing or something? Just a strange career move. I've said it before-Apple Jam is a waste of musicians. There are various styles, all in the key of C with no chord changes. Blah-at least do your standard blues changes. Easy to jam along with though- just play your C scales over and over.
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Post by sayne on Aug 1, 2011 18:48:04 GMT -5
I bought the album when it first came out and was one of those people who only listened to Apple Jam once and never listened to it again . . . until about 4 years ago. Guess what. I really like the jam.
From my point of view, George's recordings, and songs, have been so slick, so middle of the road, that it was refreshing to hear George rock. Sure he probably was playing rhythm while Clapton and Dave Mason did all the heavy lifting, but still, the thought of George getting down as a REAL rocker pleased me to no end. I now like it as a roots kinda thing. I wish he rocked a lot more during his career.
Elvis Costello, in describing what rock should sound like, said that when you dig up a rock, it's hard, dirty, gnarly. That's what rock music should be like. I agree.
I have always wondered if there are any recordings of his jams with Alvin Lee. I'd like to think the sound they made split your head.
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Post by darkhorse67 on Aug 1, 2011 20:31:12 GMT -5
I agree that a double album with songs would have made more sense; but I remember paying around 12 to 13 dollars for All Things Must Pass in vinyl in Puerto Rico where an LP could run you from 7 to 10 dollars back in the early 80's. It did not seem fair to charge full price for an extra disc.
However, there are many albums that nowadays I would love to hear the jam sessions: as a method of eavesdropping, something a bit more than the FLy on the Wall disc of Let It Be Naked in terms of material, and a bit more like the apple jam audio quality.
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Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Aug 1, 2011 22:15:28 GMT -5
Anyway, I was just thinking -- WHY DID GEORGE ISSUE A TRIPLE ALBUM? Makes no sense. Ah, it makes plenty of sense. George, with his usual consideration for others, put out a large package that came in a box. This made it easy and convenient to roll your - "cigarettes" - over, and the leavings were caught in the lid, and therefore not wasted. To this day, some second-hand ATMP boxes contain tell-tale signs of having been used like this. He was a hippy till the day he died, was ol' George. He knew, y'know? You had to have been there. It was McCabe
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kc
Beatle Freak
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Post by kc on Aug 1, 2011 23:47:37 GMT -5
Anyway, I was just thinking -- WHY DID GEORGE ISSUE A TRIPLE ALBUM? Makes no sense. Ah, it makes plenty of sense. George, with his usual consideration for others, put out a large package that came in a box. This made it easy and convenient to roll your - "cigarettes" - over, and the leavings were caught in the lid, and therefore not wasted. To this day, some second-hand ATMP boxes contain tell-tale signs of having been used like this. He was a hippy till the day he died, was ol' George. He knew, y'know? You had to have been there. It was McCabe There might be something to that argument! I've previously read the same sort of thing regarding the original box set issue of Let It Be. Maybe George's intention was to repeat that attribute of the last Beatles album (nothing really lost to the fans with the Beatles demise!). I'm of the opinion that ATMP should have been a single LP rather than a double. Here is my track list: All Things Must Pass My Sweet Lord Wah Wah What Is Life Apple Scruffs Run Of The Mill Beware Of Darkness Let It Down The Art Of Dying Awaiting On You All Isn't It A Pity I've chosen mainly upbeat songs for this, meaning that some of the other numbers, such as Hear Me Lord, or Ballad Of Sir Frankie Crisp, could have been held over for his next, milder, studio album: Living In The Material World would have been a second masterwork! Back to reality. Was the 3 LP decision something to do with contractural obligations?
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Post by vectisfabber on Aug 2, 2011 3:54:12 GMT -5
The Let It Be box was a completely different design to the ATMP box. ATMP was a two part box - a tray and a lid, hinged along the spine with a paper spine strip. It was quite a sturdy beast: the cardboard was thick and rigid. Let It Be, on the other hand, had a hollow tray with a central recess for the book to sit in, which slipped (together with the album) into an outer sleeve which closed with tabs. The carboard was glosy but very thin, and it wasn't possibly to open it to get at the book and record without bending and creasing the card. The tray was so flimsy that it lost its integrity very quickly. In fact, it was rubbish. The ATMP packaging was far superior.
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Post by vectisfabber on Aug 2, 2011 3:57:25 GMT -5
And, of course, George's initial intentions for ATMP were that it would be a double album - and priced accordingly - with the Apple Jam LP included as a freebie. Sadly, the suits never allowed that to happen.
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Post by beatleroadie on Aug 2, 2011 11:53:02 GMT -5
I would have encouraged George to release ATMP as two separate albums, maybe spaced out by 6 months (with Apple Jam as a stand-alone special low-price release on Zapple or as a bonus LP given away with copies of "Let it Roll").
The first LP would drop in late 1970 and the second would arrivein the summer of 1971.
A double album is just a lot to process. In general, I prefer shorter records of about 10 songs each, especially when the songs have lots of layers of instruments and run 4-5 minutes as is the case here.
Track lists:
ALL THINGS MUST PASS (December 1970)
SIDE A What Is Life My Sweet Lord Run of the Mill If Not For You Behind that Locked Door
SIDE B Wah-Wah I Dig Love Hear Me Lord All Things Must Pass
LET IT ROLL (June 1971)
SIDE A Isn't It a Pity Awaiting on You All Beware of Darkness Let it Down
SIDE B I'd Have You Anytime The Art of Dying Apple Scruffs The Ballad of Sir Frankie Crisp (Let It Roll) Isn't It a Pity (reprise)
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Post by stavros on Aug 2, 2011 15:12:22 GMT -5
Anyway, I was just thinking -- WHY DID GEORGE ISSUE A TRIPLE ALBUM? Makes no sense. Ah, it makes plenty of sense. George, with his usual consideration for others, put out a large package that came in a box. This made it easy and convenient to roll your - "cigarettes" - over, and the leavings were caught in the lid, and therefore not wasted. To this day, some second-hand ATMP boxes contain tell-tale signs of having been used like this. He was a hippy till the day he died, was ol' George. He knew, y'know? You had to have been there. It was McCabe ;D George was even considerate enough to do this with the re-issued CD sets and with the re-mastered Living in the Material World. "Brainwashed" was also in a nice compact box with a lid.
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Post by Panther on Aug 2, 2011 19:24:40 GMT -5
ALL THINGS MUST PASS (December 1970) SIDE A What Is Life My Sweet Lord Run of the Mill If Not For You Behind that Locked Door SIDE B Wah-Wah I Dig Love Hear Me Lord All Things Must Pass LET IT ROLL (June 1971) SIDE A Isn't It a Pity Awaiting on You All Beware of Darkness Let it Down SIDE B I'd Have You Anytime The Art of Dying Apple Scruffs The Ballad of Sir Frankie Crisp (Let It Roll) Isn't It a Pity (reprise) This sounds about perfect to me. Double or triple-albums that "clear the decks" are good, but doing one with your 1st record is just career suicide. George did need another 2.5 years at least to come out with another studio set, and in those days that was like 10 years now.
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Post by darkhorse67 on Aug 3, 2011 10:18:21 GMT -5
Good point about Apple Jam being used as a free give away; much the way sometime Best Buy will do adding a free disc (interview, radio special, etc...) By the way I listened through the bootleg of "Beware of Abcko"; for me personally, that would have been an excellent third disc.
It's very true, back in the day, ATMP would have been an excellent single disc release with tracks held over for Living in the Material World and even subsequent releases further down....
However, now in retrospect and not meaning to turn the subject, the CD re-issue now stands miniscule alongside the new McCartney CD re-issues....
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Aug 8, 2011 18:02:33 GMT -5
George had little if anything to do with the jamming on the third disc. I always considered it a double album and used the (vinyl) third disc as a frisbee.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Aug 8, 2011 18:03:41 GMT -5
I would have encouraged George to release ATMP as two separate albums, maybe spaced out by 6 months (with Apple Jam as a stand-alone special low-price release on Zapple or as a bonus LP given away with copies of "Let it Roll"). The first LP would drop in late 1970 and the second would arrivein the summer of 1971. A double album is just a lot to process. In general, I prefer shorter records of about 10 songs each, especially when the songs have lots of layers of instruments and run 4-5 minutes as is the case here. Track lists: ALL THINGS MUST PASS (December 1970) SIDE A What Is Life My Sweet Lord Run of the Mill If Not For You Behind that Locked Door SIDE B Wah-Wah I Dig Love Hear Me Lord All Things Must Pass LET IT ROLL (June 1971) SIDE A Isn't It a Pity Awaiting on You All Beware of Darkness Let it Down SIDE B I'd Have You Anytime The Art of Dying Apple Scruffs The Ballad of Sir Frankie Crisp (Let It Roll) Isn't It a Pity (reprise) Great idea. But what about I Live For You?
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Aug 8, 2011 18:09:58 GMT -5
Ah, it makes plenty of sense. George, with his usual consideration for others, put out a large package that came in a box. This made it easy and convenient to roll your - "cigarettes" - over, and the leavings were caught in the lid, and therefore not wasted. To this day, some second-hand ATMP boxes contain tell-tale signs of having been used like this. He was a hippy till the day he died, was ol' George. He knew, y'know? You had to have been there. It was McCabe There might be something to that argument! I've previously read the same sort of thing regarding the original box set issue of Let It Be. Maybe George's intention was to repeat that attribute of the last Beatles album (nothing really lost to the fans with the Beatles demise!). I'm of the opinion that ATMP should have been a single LP rather than a double. Here is my track list: All Things Must Pass My Sweet Lord Wah Wah What Is Life Apple Scruffs Run Of The Mill Beware Of Darkness Let It Down The Art Of Dying Awaiting On You All Isn't It A Pity I've chosen mainly upbeat songs for this, meaning that some of the other numbers, such as Hear Me Lord, or Ballad Of Sir Frankie Crisp, could have been held over for his next, milder, studio album: Living In The Material World would have been a second masterwork! Back to reality. Was the 3 LP decision something to do with contractural obligations? No it had nothing to do with contractual obligations. George wanted to make a statement about how many songs he had collected over the years. I agree with you. He should have made it a single album (12 songs maybe) and held the rest over for Living In the Material World which was a big let down. Maybe I shouldn't have expected anything then whatever I got would have been a bonus. Who said that about one of Paul's albums?
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Post by Panther on Aug 8, 2011 19:55:58 GMT -5
He should have made it a single album (12 songs maybe) and held the rest over for Living In the Material World which was a big let down. I personally think Living in the Material World was great the way it was, and is one of the 6 or 7 best Beatle 'solo' LPs. Two ATMP albums in 1970/71 would have been fine, but I don't see those tracks being mixed in with LITMW stuff. Two different sounding albums.
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kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
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Post by kc on Aug 8, 2011 20:26:15 GMT -5
kc's alternate Living In The Material World:
Living In The Material World Sue Me Sue You Blues I Dig Love Give Me Love (Give Me Peace On Earth) If Not For You
Be Here Now Don't Let Me Wait Too Long Ballad Of Sir Frankie Crisp (Let It Roll) Behind That Locked Door Hear Me Lord
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Aug 9, 2011 6:30:20 GMT -5
I'm always puzzled whenever someone questions something that was already a HUGE SUCCESS. In this case, George Harrison's ALL THINGS MUST PASS was and still is a great collection, and is often even singled out as "THE BEST OF ALL SOLO BEATLES ALBUMS". So what's the problem? How can something be considered "wrong-headed", or "What was George thinking??" when it's already a massive grand slam home run....? The same thing relates to The White Album... it did great, it's considered a classic and one of The Beatles' Best. Why try to re-work it? Paul McCartney was so dead-on accurate with his comment: "It's great, it sold, it's the bloody Beatles White Album, shut up!" --
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Aug 9, 2011 6:31:56 GMT -5
I always considered it a double album and used the (vinyl) third disc as a frisbee. Well, subjectively speaking, I do agree with you here.
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Post by sayne on Aug 9, 2011 9:29:12 GMT -5
. . . George wanted to make a statement about how many songs he had collected over the years . . . . . . and I suppose Paul wanted to make a statement on McCartney that he could do an album all by himself. Please. If George only had 5 songs, we would not have had ATMP. If he only had 10 songs, then the album would have had 10 songs. He had a lot of songs that he was proud of and wanted to get them out. Sometimes, you have to clean the closet before you can put new clothes in it. I seriously doubt it had anything to do with making statements about quantity.
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Post by Panther on Aug 9, 2011 11:07:59 GMT -5
I'm always puzzled whenever someone questions something that was already a HUGE SUCCESS. In this case, George Harrison's ALL THINGS MUST PASS was and still is a great collection, and is often even singled out as "THE BEST OF ALL SOLO BEATLES ALBUMS". So what's the problem? As I said off the top, it was obviously a huge hit so no harm done. I'm just wondering -- literally -- what was he thinking? Like, why did he want to put out a triple album? (I mean, no one had ever done that, so hardly the obvious way to kick off a solo career.)
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Post by beatleroadie on Aug 9, 2011 13:57:34 GMT -5
There must be some 1970 interviews in which George opens up and explains why he recorded so many songs in one go. Even a double album for a working band with multiple songwriters is a lot. A triple LP from a solo artist is almost unheard of. Maybe he was so enthralled with the Spector sound and the collection of friends he had on board to record that once Phil signed on George decided to record as much as he could in case he never got this chance with these musicians and that producer all together again?
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Post by Jason I on Aug 9, 2011 14:04:41 GMT -5
He said in an interview around the time that after the Beatles ended he just got together with Spector and recorded, recorded, recorded. There was no set deadline for an album.
"Then one day a record label man came downstairs" and said it was time to put an album out. He couldn't figure out where to begin with which songs to release, so he decided to just put it all out.
Although this story doesn't tie in to the fact that much later on we'd get 'I Live For You' and 'You' from the sessions.
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Post by mikev on Aug 9, 2011 14:33:35 GMT -5
He said in an interview around the time that after the Beatles ended he just got together with Spector and recorded, recorded, recorded. There was no set deadline for an album. "Then one day a record label man came downstairs" and said it was time to put an album out. He couldn't figure out where to begin with which songs to release, so he decided to just put it all out. Although this story doesn't tie in to the fact that much later on we'd get 'I Live For You' and 'You' from the sessions. What about Dehra Dune, Golders Green and the other Indian song?
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Post by Jason I on Aug 9, 2011 15:56:17 GMT -5
He said in an interview around the time that after the Beatles ended he just got together with Spector and recorded, recorded, recorded. There was no set deadline for an album. "Then one day a record label man came downstairs" and said it was time to put an album out. He couldn't figure out where to begin with which songs to release, so he decided to just put it all out. Although this story doesn't tie in to the fact that much later on we'd get 'I Live For You' and 'You' from the sessions. What about Dehra Dune, Golders Green and the other Indian song? I could be wrong but I think both of those (and things like the strange version of Get Back etc) were outtakes from the Doris Troy album that George produced.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Aug 9, 2011 16:43:58 GMT -5
. . . George wanted to make a statement about how many songs he had collected over the years . . . . . . and I suppose Paul wanted to make a statement on McCartney that he could do an album all by himself. Please. If George only had 5 songs, we would not have had ATMP. If he only had 10 songs, then the album would have had 10 songs. He had a lot of songs that he was proud of and wanted to get them out. Sometimes, you have to clean the closet before you can put new clothes in it. I seriously doubt it had anything to do with making statements about quantity. You said He had a lot of songs that he was proud of and wanted to get them out and I agree. The album was about quality and quantity. The question that was asked had to do with quantity.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Aug 9, 2011 16:56:35 GMT -5
I'm always puzzled whenever someone questions something that was already a HUGE SUCCESS. In this case, George Harrison's ALL THINGS MUST PASS was and still is a great collection, and is often even singled out as "THE BEST OF ALL SOLO BEATLES ALBUMS". So what's the problem? As I said off the top, it was obviously a huge hit so no harm done. I'm just wondering -- literally -- what was he thinking? Like, why did he want to put out a triple album? (I mean, no one had ever done that, so hardly the obvious way to kick off a solo career.) OK, I gotcha.
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Post by sayne on Aug 10, 2011 0:01:55 GMT -5
The album was about quality and quantity. The question that was asked had to do with quantity. You stated flatly that he wanted to make a statement about how many songs he had collected. Do you really think he thought, "Gee, I want the world to see that I have a lot of songs that were not recorded while I was a Beatle"? Do you think Paul thought, "I want to show the world that I have a bunch of unfinished songs"? Of course not. No one releases anything to show how many they have. That's just nutty thinking. And, the question was about why the third disk - the jam, not about quantity. I don't think anyone really sees those jams as songs to add to any real "total," anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2011 5:26:21 GMT -5
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Post by vectisfabber on Aug 10, 2011 5:49:48 GMT -5
And the answer to the third disk, as previously stated, is that George saw it as a giveaway freebie to go with his double album.
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