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Post by mikev on Oct 6, 2008 7:42:21 GMT -5
I for one would not go. Clapton?? An orchestra? The nerve of them!
And, they probably would have even had the nerve to record and tape it for video release.
No one would buy it. Cut out section within weeks.
Say what you want about reheating an old souffle'- If the Monkees toured as a quartet in 1997 all venues would have sold out-maybe even some arenas-regardless of critics. A stadium? Probably not.
The reunited Beatles, or even the Threetles for that matter would have sold out stadiums whether they were unplugged, a small unit, or an ensemble. In the end- if the people come-does it really matter what the critics say?
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Post by OldFred on Oct 6, 2008 7:56:52 GMT -5
Say what you want about reheating an old souffle'- If the Monkees toured as a quartet in 1997 all venues would have sold out-maybe even some arenas-regardless of critics. A stadium? Probably not. The reunited Beatles, or even the Threetles for that matter would have sold out stadiums whether they were unplugged, a small unit, or an ensemble. In the end- if the people come-does it really matter what the critics say? I agree with you that if the Monkees had toured the States as a foursome in 1997 the entire tour would have sold-out instantly and they might have had to book some arenas to meet the demand. That's exactly what happened during the 1986 20th Anniversary tour, and there were only three Monkees! One of the shows I saw during the 1986 tour was at the Meadowlands Arena in New Jersey. When fans found out that Nesmith pulled out of the '97 tour, they went to the shows anyway to support the other three guys. There's still a bit of resentment among Monkees fans for what Nesmith did, but the resentment has pretty much died down a bit and they still support him. A Beatles Reunion Tour? Oh, stadiums definitely, though I think John and George may have insisted on some smaller venues for the sake of their sanity.
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Post by mikev on Oct 6, 2008 10:18:30 GMT -5
When John talked about a John-Yoko Double Fantasy tour-I think he talked big stadiums and even performing "I Want to Hold Your Hand".
Would have been interesting watching the crowd switch to a polite silence, when a Beatle monster classic gets followed up by Kiss Kiss Kiss Kiss Me Love-Just One Kiss Kiss Will Do.
I saw the Monkees at the Garden State Art Center in 86 and 89. I also have the 2001 tour on DVD and it is very good. Tork playes most of the classic riffs himself.
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Post by slappyabromowitz on Oct 6, 2008 11:14:11 GMT -5
The only logical period would have been around late 1976- 1977 and they would have made it special. Its crazy to think otherwise- the Anthogy generated one great song and it was a huge success. In addition, Pauls solo tours are incredibly succesful and he was on the top of his game in the mid-seventies. In 1975 Lennon had said to the NME as well as other publications and friends that he was considering it ("I would do the whole damn show"). This was the only time that Lennon showed even partial interest and we know McCartney would have done it as he was keen from 1973 on. I actualy think McCartney's huge tour of 76 as well as Lennons desire to get away from the record business curbed any enthusiasm on his part. If we look at the solo songs from the period if I have my timing right - in 1977 we have three Lennon demos of fairly good quality (Now And Then, Free As A Bird, You Saved My Soul) McCartney had Mull Of Kyntire, I've Had Enough, Good night Tonight, Daytime Nightime Suffering, Winter Rose (very underated song) and countless others and George had Blow Away and Love Comes To Everyone- not masterpieces but in my estimation a good start for a reunion album. The collaboration might have made these tracks all better-its conjecture but I think at the minimum they were proffessionals and the tour would have been magical. To compare them to the Monkees is ludricous.
A fun post
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Post by superhans on Oct 6, 2008 12:27:16 GMT -5
I'm just glad it didn't happen. I would hate the Beatles to have become like the Rolling Stones -- a pale imitation - a parody of themselves, trying to roll back the years. I agree with JSD - there was a window of opportunity around 74/75....it didn't happen. An 80s/90s reunion would have been a total embarrassment. SuperHans. This is me after a heavy night on the Pilsner - and not in a very good mood with Mrs. SuperHans...
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Post by mikev on Oct 6, 2008 13:36:29 GMT -5
I think the point was that even a Monkees reunion generated enough excitement to have sold-out shows.
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Post by sayne on Oct 6, 2008 15:47:38 GMT -5
I'm just glad it didn't happen. I would hate the Beatles to have become like the Rolling Stones -- a pale imitation - a parody of themselves, trying to roll back the years. I, for one, totally reject any sentiment about the Stones being shadows of their former selves. I have seen them every tour since 1969 (yes, I was a wee bit of a lad) and they have NEVER given a bad performance in my neck of the woods. Yes, some shows and tours were better than others, but they always delivered. Maybe you wouldn't want to see YOUR 60+ year old gramps running up and down a stage (even if he could), but Jagger and company carry it off - amazingly! They show that one can get older, but not get old. Will this last forever? I'm a realist, so the answer is no, but to suggest that the Stones' best days were in the 60s and 70s is just plain inaccurate. In fact, when they did the smaller arena, not stadium tour, back in the early 2000s, I think they were as good, if not better than they ever were. It was like seeing masters at work.
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Post by richforman on Oct 6, 2008 16:20:46 GMT -5
I agree, the Stones make their many detractors irrelevant with each sold-out show and tour they do. "Masters" is the perfect word.
richforman
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 6, 2008 16:33:20 GMT -5
I think the point was that even a Monkees reunion generated enough excitement to have sold-out shows. But so did the reunited Eagles so reunions are not always good things! ;D I think Steve started this Thread by noting that he watched a Monkees' reunion concert and was depressed by it or at least disappointed and wouldn't have wanted to feel that way about a Beatles' reunion. I still can't see the four Beatles ever pulling off a decent live reunion concert(as sayne wrote, expectations of live performances grew demanding by the late 60's early 70's) and frankly, The Beatles stopped growing as a live act once the mania hit and they in fact regressed as live performers. These "what ifs" are torture as there may have been magic but there also may have been the cheapening of a great legacy.
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Post by jimc on Oct 6, 2008 20:43:08 GMT -5
I think the point was that even a Monkees reunion generated enough excitement to have sold-out shows. Please. Can we stop comparing the Beatles to the Monkees? Aren't the differences obvious enough? Sold-out shows? The American Idol idiots draw big crowds. So what. Excitement is meaningless. Quality lasts. A Beatles concert is not a truck pull or a Nascar race.
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Post by Panther on Oct 6, 2008 21:27:11 GMT -5
I am strongly against bands reuniting, period. As I see it -- and based on ample historical evidence -- bands must either keep it going indefinitely (The Temptations, Stones, U2), or they must break up while still in their prime and NOT get back together.
For me, that is definitely one of the special things The Beatles legacy has. They had their youth together in The Beatles; they went from innocence to experience, from adolescence to married adulthood, from imitators to emulators to modernists to postmodernists, all in The Beatles. For them to get back together at any time would have made the specialness of the real Beatle era less salient and left a slightly sour taste as a legacy.
The only other huge band I knew that broke up while on top was The Police -- but, sadly, they got back together for a money-making tour last year and I think that has deflated their stature considerably. But in any case, legacies like The Police's don't compare to the frickin' Beatles.'
Be it resolved: they did the right thing to leave well enough alone...
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Post by revolver66 on Oct 6, 2008 22:33:39 GMT -5
A Beatles Reunion tour would have been a Major Success(at least Finacially). How it would fair critically who knows?? That being said If John had lived after Double Fantasy would he have toured by himself? Although I heard there were plans I somehow doubt it. I mean Lennon & Harrison weren't into touring and Ringo took quite sometime to hit the road. If they were to get together a New LP and a One Off Concert would be the way to go.
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Post by mikev on Oct 6, 2008 22:43:43 GMT -5
Somewhere in a parallel universe...young fans stand in line to see the Beatles's 2008 live tour. A jealous Stones fan says the old farts should have called it quits in '68 like the Stones did when Brian Jones died...
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 7, 2008 8:06:33 GMT -5
Somewhere in a parallel universe...young fans stand in line to see the Beatles's 2008 live tour. A jealous Stones fan says the old farts should have called it quits in '68 like the Stones did when Brian Jones died... ;D That's a good one!
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Post by waitrose on Oct 7, 2008 8:10:35 GMT -5
I would like to think that the Beatles would have been able to produce an amazing one-off gig ala Led Zep at the O2 (and Percy has the right idea about a Led Zep full blown tour).
I actually believe that if John had been alive they would have got together for Live Aid (and it probably would have been a rather below par performance ala Led Zep and the Who).
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Post by theoak on Oct 7, 2008 10:24:59 GMT -5
The only logical period would have been around late 1976- 1977 and they would have made it special. Its crazy to think otherwise- the Anthogy generated one great song and it was a huge success. In addition, Pauls solo tours are incredibly succesful and he was on the top of his game in the mid-seventies. In 1975 Lennon had said to the NME as well as other publications and friends that he was considering it ("I would do the whole damn show"). This was the only time that Lennon showed even partial interest and we know McCartney would have done it as he was keen from 1973 on. I actualy think McCartney's huge tour of 76 as well as Lennons desire to get away from the record business curbed any enthusiasm on his part. If we look at the solo songs from the period if I have my timing right - in 1977 we have three Lennon demos of fairly good quality (Now And Then, Free As A Bird, You Saved My Soul) McCartney had Mull Of Kyntire, I've Had Enough, Good night Tonight, Daytime Nightime Suffering, Winter Rose (very underated song) and countless others and George had Blow Away and Love Comes To Everyone- not masterpieces but in my estimation a good start for a reunion album. The collaboration might have made these tracks all better-its conjecture but I think at the minimum they were proffessionals and the tour would have been magical. To compare them to the Monkees is ludricous. A fun post I believe Real Love was available around this time also.
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Post by ChokingSmoker on Oct 7, 2008 16:20:15 GMT -5
Great thread, but with a lot of surprise from yours truly. Almost a landslide against any kind of reunion. What a shame.
The Beatles are the equivalent of gods in the music world. No one did it better, and no one will ever come close. To even suggest that there was any kind of chance that it would not be a success is ludicrous. They were the masters of their art.
If they did reunite for whatever purpose, and gave it their all, there is no doubt in my mind that all four would have made sure that such a reunion would not tarnish their legacy.
What a shame it didn't happen.
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Post by vectisfabber on Oct 8, 2008 2:58:47 GMT -5
Hear hear!
How amazing, a Beatles forum full of non-fans!
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Post by waitrose on Oct 8, 2008 7:44:24 GMT -5
If they did reunite for whatever purpose, and gave it their all, there is no doubt in my mind that all four would have made sure that such a reunion would not tarnish their legacy. What a shame it didn't happen. I totally agree.
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Post by OldFred on Oct 8, 2008 7:56:19 GMT -5
If they did reunite for whatever purpose, and gave it their all, there is no doubt in my mind that all four would have made sure that such a reunion would not tarnish their legacy. What a shame it didn't happen. I totally agree. I too concur. It's of course all speculation, but the Beatles would have done the legacy proud. Just look at the Concert for George, the respect was very evident from everyone on that stage, especially Paul and Ringo. Paul's rendition of 'All Things Must Pass' is done very reverently.
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Post by mikev on Oct 8, 2008 9:04:04 GMT -5
I think at the end of the day on all of this, it would have come down to what they put out.
Artistically-if it sounded like Toot and Snore or Twickenham- it would only see the light of day in bootleg form-because chances are it would have fizzled out before anything was finished.
If it was a concert and it was like Paul’s early Wings shows, George’s ’74 tour, or John’s afternoon One to One Concert-it would have likely been no better than Beatles Live in Japan ’66 except for maybe better amps. People would say they should have let it be (pun fully intended).
If it happened at the Concert for Bangladesh- it would have been fragmented but still historic. The album and film sales would have tripled.
If it followed a slicker format like Wings circa ’76 or ’79- it could have met the standards of other live releases in the 70s.
In the 80s- no lessons learned- we just got a manufactured faux Threetle single (back-up vocals could have been anybody and Ringo already mailed his part in), a missed opportunity at Live Aid, a lost invitation from Carl Perkins to McCartney for a TV special, a one year off appearance at Prince’s Trust (Paul ‘86, George/Ringo ‘87), and a R & R HOF sham which got the wrath of Mike Love (picture replacement Stooge Joe Besser going “oooh I’m scarred!!!!”).
In the 90s, we got a very sterilized-released after the fact-loose Threetles unplugged, and two commercial jingles for the sale of Anthology.
Still, I agree totally with the later half-it is too bad they didn’t do it-if not for anything else-to have a true video capture of them performing their second magnificent act 1966-70 live (another reason to get Let it Be cleaned up).
All we have to listen in on is the solo live stints, and a poignant tribute concert too late, but a necessary closure/void filled, which the Threetles sadly (in my opinion) failed to do in the early 80s.
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Post by johnpaulharstar on Oct 8, 2008 10:46:52 GMT -5
Someone mentioned the Paperback Writer book a couple pages back. I wish the 4 guys in the Beatles could all have gotten back together and joked around like they did in my favorite chapter in that book. Classic stuff like John, seeing George in a white suit telling he looked like a member of "pimps for Jesus" and the endless "kotex jokes" aimed at John. George, Paul, and Ringo got to do that to some extent with Anthology. I wish John could have been there too. I love the two songs they did for Anthology. Surely, with John alive, they easily could have put out more quality new stuff. In our cynical times, there would have been those who would have put it down (much like the posters on here who are putting down "Free As A Bird" and "Real Love"-I feel sorry for them for not being moved by those songs). But the true fans would have loved it and it would have been a great thing for the Beatles themselves to have all four been together one more time. I agree Concert For George was very moving and would have been even better with John there too!
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Post by mikev on Oct 8, 2008 11:21:16 GMT -5
I was as excited as anyone else to hear both songs-but they were in fact, promos for the collection. Look at the first video.
Free As a Bird is a cool ditty, but John sounds like he's singing from beyond (which he was) and Real Love sounds like John was singing with helium filled lungs. Alvin threatened a lawsuit. The demo at the correct speed was great.
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Post by OldFred on Oct 8, 2008 17:56:38 GMT -5
OK, let's just enjoy this and imagine what could have been. Free As A Bird - Live Real Love - Live
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Post by jimc on Oct 8, 2008 21:06:30 GMT -5
I too concur. It's of course all speculation, but the Beatles would have done the legacy proud. Just look at the Concert for George, the respect was very evident from everyone on that stage, especially Paul and Ringo. Paul's rendition of 'All Things Must Pass' is done very reverently. Maybe. But the Concert for George is not relevant to an imagined Beatle reunion (all four) in the 1970s or whenever. Paul and Ringo were mourning a brother and celebrating his life and music -- very different from a true reunion. I don't doubt the feelings of Paul or Ringo for a second, but remember... "Everybody loves you...when you're six feet in the ground."
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Oct 8, 2008 21:58:16 GMT -5
"The Beatles were about youth, energy, vigour, colour -- pushing the musical envelope, not a crumbly semi-geriatric nostalgia trip." Superhans
The Beatles were about youth, energy, vigour, colour because they broke up before anybody was even 30 years old. A reunion would have been "A crumbly, semi-geriatric nostalgia trip"?? I don't think a reunion in the 90's (had John not been killed) would have been that at all. They would have only been in their early to mid-fifties, and they would not have just played their old hits. Is Springsteen (now pushing 60) a crumbly, semi-geriatric? The Stones are certainly as relevant today as they ever were. Just watch Martin Scorcese's recent film of their New York performances, and tell me they look crumbly, or semi-geriatric. John and Paul & George would have written some pretty impressive material for a Beatles re-union album had they chosen to do so in the mid-nineties around the Anthology project. But as I wrote, once George began his battle w/cancer, the Beatle magic would have again ended once more, this time for good. But I'll lay odds John & Paul would have written something unique to honor their mate at the Concert For George in 2002. Then they would have put the legacy to rest along with George.
"Paul's rendition of 'All Things Must Pass' is done very reverently. " Old Fred is right about that. It is ironic that George wanted that song on the White Album in 1968, but apparently John and Paul were not so inclined to agree. 34 years later, Paul's rendition of the song at the Concert For George was in my opinion, a classic. He should put that song in his next concert tour, and drop his ukelele version of "Something", Sinatra's favorite "Lennon-McCartney" song.
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Post by mikev on Oct 9, 2008 0:26:02 GMT -5
The Stones do " look crumbly, or semi-geriatric" and have since the late 70s- but they play greater than ever live.
Paul did perform All Things Must Pass a few more times before taking it out of his set list. At least now he finishes Something with the original arrangement after the tired old story that was poignant the first 119 times he told it.
What I would like to hear is the Paul soundcheck of What is Life.
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Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Oct 9, 2008 1:05:01 GMT -5
Free As A Bird - Live Real Love - Live Well! What do you say? I say: corny, tasteless, low-class. Maybe whoever did this had "good" motives, but how unrealistic it is. Remember folks, the dream IS over. PS No insult intended to Old Fred: he's just the messenger!
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Post by OldFred on Oct 9, 2008 5:57:29 GMT -5
The videos posted were a fantasy imagining of what a supposed 1994 reunion of The Beatles might have looked liked. The persons who put the videos together were very clever in their editing. It almost looks like the Fabs are really playing and singing on those songs.
The posting of the videos were meant to add a fun and somewhat wistful element to what has developed into an interesting thread and were intended for the enjoyment of the group.
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Post by mikev on Oct 9, 2008 6:50:21 GMT -5
I'd rather have it than not have it: both the songs and the faux videos. Someone did this will home equipment
I still think the Faux Beatles You Tube Now and Then is also fantastic.
Now there are dozens-some very good, some downright awful-most fake except Come Together and Two of Us from the official Beatles.com
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