Rnd 2, Match 5, LP Side Tourney, AR 2 v. LIB 2

[joeyself]

ABBEY ROAD, Side 2

"Here Comes the Sun" 3:05
"Because" 2:45
"You Never Give Me Your Money" 4:02
"Sun King" 2:26
"Mean Mr. Mustard" 1:06
"Polythene Pam" 1:12
"She Came in Through the Bathroom Window" 1:57
"Golden Slumbers" 1:31
"Carry That Weight" 1:36
"The End" 2:05
"Her Majesty" 0:23



LET IT BE, Side 2

"I've Got a Feeling" 3:38
"One After 909" 2:54
"The Long and Winding Road" 3:38
"For You Blue" 2:32
"Get Back" 3:09

A battle of 1969 recordings, LET IT BE 2 gets to be the sacrificial lamb to what may be the pre-tournament favorite of AR 2.

In case anyone is curious, I start the next match as soon as we get 15 voters in the previous one. That's not to say that I expect ONLY 15, but that tells me it's been seen by the bulk of the players. Those just catching up with us in Round 2 have plenty of time to vote and comment on the prior matches.

JcS

[vectisfabber]

AR2

There is no side I prefer to this one.

[stavros]

A bit of an unfair match up here. 'Abbey Road' plays 11 a side against 5 a side 'Let it Be'.

But even if you give marks out of 10 and then half them in the case of Abbey Road it just oozes quality production and fine craftsmanship from it's opening bars to it's final "omitted" chord at the very end.

Let it Be just gets overpowered despite it's high points.

[Deleted]

LET IT BE, Side 2

"I've Got a Feeling" 3:38
"One After 909" 2:54
"The Long and Winding Road" 3:38
"For You Blue" 2:32
"Get Back" 3:09

A great collection of Beatles songs that sound good even with all the issues that were present when they were recorded.

I don't think they suffer at all with their Spector production....

[John S. Damm]

LET IT BE, Side 2

Unpolished Beatles versus Polished Beatles.

I like the rock and roll of LIB-2. I am glad that we have AR-2 because it is so polished and smooth. It's cool to hear The Beatles sound so slick.

But give me some semi-live tracks with some rock to it.

[Joseph McCabe]

Let It Be, side 2? No, sorry Fabs, but this is a sterile, empty set of songs. No creative drive, no urgency, no commitment. Since they are the Beatles, yes this is a pleasant collection - but merely pleasant. When the Beatles do "pleasant", they are not the great band of better days.

And what to say about Abbey Road, side 2? It's almost untouchable, isn't it? And maybe the "tournament favorite". Let's have a closer look.

Here Comes The Sun. An excellent Harrisong, put first to clear the decks for the upcoming Lennon/McCartney/Martin "masterpiece", the infamous medley.

Because. Wow, great singing, empty cliche-ridden lyrics. Ugh.

You Never Give Me Your Money. This could have been a Macca classic, but peters out into that yellow-lorry and 1234567 stuff. Nice tune, good lyric start, poor meandering end. This song, supposedly the start of the Long Medley, is really a fruit salad itself.

Sun King/Mean Mr Mustard. Recorded as a unit, this is another mini-medley. I wonder how long it took Lennon to compose Sun King? I'll go for five minutes. As for Mustard, er ... John, what did you say about granny music?

Polythene Pam/She Came In Through The Bathroom Window. The third medley within a medley. Pam rocks nicely, but pointlessly. Bathroom Window is just pointless.

But everyone has got the idea now: there are no longer any real songs left, so why don't we just meld together whatever we've got. George Martin is at last coming into his own.

Golden Slumbers/Carry That Weight/The End. The last medley-in-a-medley. Slumbers is nice, but we know Macca can do this stuff - nothing really new there. Carry That Weight reprises the "you never give me your money" plea from before, but it sounds contrived and forced. And The End? Very nicely done, but that cliche homespun philosophy of you get what you give (where have I heard that before?) - let me out of here.

Seriously, Abbey Road is, for me, a record with little real feeling except in little, rare bursts. For such a creative group, this album is not worthy of them.

Neither deserves my vote.

McCabe

[Joseph McCabe]

... but I must continue to play the game (having started, I should finish) so with much hesitation I'll vote for LIB side 2.

OK, here goes

[John S. Damm]

Wow! As I write this, LIB-2 is ahead of AR-2 by 3-2.

As always, McCabe is thought-provoking. He blasts both album sides so I am presuming Joseph would blast both complete albums, the last two The Beatles made(but released out of order).

Did The Beatles' high-water mark as to influencing the music world and the band's own musical progression peak with SPLHCB? Can it be said that after SPLHCB, The Beatles were a very good band, maybe the best, but not musically revolutionary? Did they react instead of being proactive?

Except for Pink Floyd, it seems that by May of 1968 with "Jumpin' Jack Flash," SPLHB's style of psychedelic music was being rejected and bands were going back to the basics with a rock/blues sound. The Beatles by the White Album seem, for the first time, to be musical followers(albeit making among the best of the best).

I am very glad that we have TB, AR and LIB because they are excellent albums with great songs but maybe the writing was already on the wall by 1967 that the band must end soon because it was no longer growing musically.

[winstonoboogie]

AR Side 2, by a very thin margin, if only because it has more songs ( even if most of them are snippets), and because Get Back is cut off. Not much of a reason, I know, but there you are.

[joeyself]

AR 2 for me, and rather easily. "Here Comes The Sun," "Because," and "You Never Give Me Your Money," all fully realized songs, would be enough to make it a contender for my vote. Add to those three the various pieces that fit together so well and the wonderful "The End," and there just nothing about LIB 2 that can stay with it. That's not to say LIB 2 is a BAD listen from start to finish, it just isn't fabulous. AR 2 is.

JcS

[Steve Marinucci]

AR2. No brainer. Probably my favorite album side of all.

[Steve Marinucci]

Jul 17, 2010 18:44:11 GMT -5 Joseph McCabe said:

Let It Be, side 2? No, sorry Fabs, but this is a sterile, empty set of songs. No creative drive, no urgency, no commitment. Since they are the Beatles, yes this is a pleasant collection - but merely pleasant. When the Beatles do "pleasant", they are not the great band of better days.

And what to say about Abbey Road, side 2? It's almost untouchable, isn't it? And maybe the "tournament favorite". Let's have a closer look.

Here Comes The Sun. An excellent Harrisong, put first to clear the decks for the upcoming Lennon/McCartney/Martin "masterpiece", the infamous medley.

Because. Wow, great singing, empty cliche-ridden lyrics. Ugh.

You Never Give Me Your Money. This could have been a Macca classic, but peters out into that yellow-lorry and 1234567 stuff. Nice tune, good lyric start, poor meandering end. This song, supposedly the start of the Long Medley, is really a fruit salad itself.

Sun King/Mean Mr Mustard. Recorded as a unit, this is another mini-medley. I wonder how long it took Lennon to compose Sun King? I'll go for five minutes. As for Mustard, er ... John, what did you say about granny music?

Polythene Pam/She Came In Through The Bathroom Window. The third medley within a medley. Pam rocks nicely, but pointlessly. Bathroom Window is just pointless.

But everyone has got the idea now: there are no longer any real songs left, so why don't we just meld together whatever we've got. George Martin is at last coming into his own.

Golden Slumbers/Carry That Weight/The End. The last medley-in-a-medley. Slumbers is nice, but we know Macca can do this stuff - nothing really new there. Carry That Weight reprises the "you never give me your money" plea from before, but it sounds contrived and forced. And The End? Very nicely done, but that cliche homespun philosophy of you get what you give (where have I heard that before?) - let me out of here.

Seriously, Abbey Road is, for me, a record with little real feeling except in little, rare bursts. For such a creative group, this album is not worthy of them.

Neither deserves my vote.

McCabe

You forgot "Her Majesty."

This isn't the Fabs of 1964. They're all grown up. It's their best and most cohesive album side, IMO. I'm really surprised at what you said.

[Joseph McCabe]

Jul 18, 2010 1:46:14 GMT -5 Steve Marinucci said:

You forgot "Her Majesty."

This isn't the Fabs of 1964. They're all grown up. It's their best and most cohesive album side, IMO. I'm really surprised at what you said.

I guess Her Majesty is forgettable then! ;D

Why are you surprised at what I said? A lot of people consider the cohesiveness that you speak of to be quite illusory. I was reading on another site a few weeks ago where a poster said he found Abbey Road a bit sterile - and others agreed. I've heard people make that sort of comment for years. That doesn't make them or me right, of course - but, really, you shouldn't be surprised.

[ursamajor]

AR-2 for me , the one track I don't like is Mean Mr Mustard but the rest is stellar.

LIB -2 can't keep up the pace with AR-2.

[RockoRoll]

ABBEY ROAD, Side 2

Sgt Pepper II, the original Bohemian Rhapsody, and my all time favourite from the fabs (thx to George)
*Here Comes The Sun*, can't beat it.....

[Steve Marinucci]

Jul 18, 2010 2:36:01 GMT -5 Joseph McCabe said:

Jul 18, 2010 1:46:14 GMT -5 Steve Marinucci said:

You forgot "Her Majesty."

This isn't the Fabs of 1964. They're all grown up. It's their best and most cohesive album side, IMO. I'm really surprised at what you said.

I guess Her Majesty is forgettable then! ;D

Why are you surprised at what I said? A lot of people consider the cohesiveness that you speak of to be quite illusory. I was reading on another site a few weeks ago where a poster said he found Abbey Road a bit sterile - and others agreed. I've heard people make that sort of comment for years. That doesn't make them or me right, of course - but, really, you shouldn't be surprised.

Well, I guess I don't recall hearing that before. And I really don't consider the cohesiveness to be illusory. Given that a good chunk of the album is a medley, it's not going to have the same flow as an album of individual songs. The bottom line is the album works and works extremely well. Again, though, this isn't the same Beatles as in 1964. They were a lot more mature as a band. Why suggest, for example, that "Abbey Road" is sterile and "Let It Be" isn't? I think LIB is definitely worse in that regard.

[coachbk]

Easy one here:

ABBEY ROAD side 2, one of the greatest album sides ever!

[wooltonian]

As Roy Carr and Tony Tyler opined in The Beatles - An illustrated record, "Abbey Road's slickness is it's salvation". Although the album contains two or three top-drawer Beatles songs, in large part it is a triumph of style over substance, where some fairly average material is assembled and packaged - by McCartney - with great skill and a degree of technical sophistication unsurpassed on any Beatles album.

My vote goes to LIB-2. Two of its five tracks (nine-o-nine and 'For you blue') are blatant filler material, but the rest is great -- and I'm really into championing 'Let it be' at the moment....the album didn't go according to plan, but it was an honest endeavour and the 'no overdubs' idea was a good one that works brilliantly in places, not least the excellent (and under-rated) 'I've got a feeling'.

[wooltonian]

Jul 17, 2010 20:38:01 GMT -5 John S. Damm said:

Did The Beatles' high-water mark as to influencing the music world and the band's own musical progression peak with SPLHCB? Can it be said that after SPLHCB, The Beatles were a very good band, maybe the best, but not musically revolutionary? Did they react instead of being proactive?

I would agree with this. The Beatles hit an amazing and unparalleled creative high during 65-67, before coming back down to earth in 68-69. They still recorded some excellent material during this latter period, but the quality was more variable and the degree of innovation (and influence) was significantly diminished.

This is reflected in the writings of many top Beatle authors. Ian Macdonald (Revolution in the head) refers to the Beatles recorded output post 'Pepper' under the chapter title 'Coming down'. Carr and Tyler refer to the White Album as an 'odd, patchy collection', are similarly lukewarm about 'Abbey Road' and are downright dismissive about 'Let it be'.

In many ways, the 68-69 period is the most interesting, but creatively I don't think that they ever recaptured the heights of those earlier years.

[Joseph McCabe]

Jul 18, 2010 9:43:31 GMT -5 Steve Marinucci said:

Why suggest, for example, that "Abbey Road" is sterile and "Let It Be" isn't? I think LIB is definitely worse in that regard.

Oh, but I do suggest LIB is sterile: see first post above where I say: "Let It Be, side 2? No, sorry Fabs, but this is a sterile, empty set of songs."

In fact, I don't myself think sterile is the bon mot for Abbey Road; I was referring to someone else's use of sterile applied to Abbey Road.

When I gave my vote to LIB, I was thinking how GOOD Glyn Johns' GET BACK albums were, especially the second-last incarnation. LIB2 is more like Johns' ideas, except of course for what Phil Spector did to Long & Winding Road. That's what was in my mind that tipped me to the LIB side.

McCabe

[John S. Damm]

Jul 18, 2010 13:43:44 GMT -5 wooltonian said:

Jul 17, 2010 20:38:01 GMT -5 John S. Damm said:

Did The Beatles' high-water mark as to influencing the music world and the band's own musical progression peak with SPLHCB? Can it be said that after SPLHCB, The Beatles were a very good band, maybe the best, but not musically revolutionary? Did they react instead of being proactive?

I would agree with this. The Beatles hit an amazing and unparalleled creative high during 65-67, before coming back down to earth in 68-69. They still recorded some excellent material during this latter period, but the quality was more variable and the degree of innovation (and influence) was significantly diminished.

This is reflected in the writings of many top Beatle authors. Ian Macdonald (Revolution in the head) refers to the Beatles recorded output post 'Pepper' under the chapter title 'Coming down'. Carr and Tyler refer to the White Album as an 'odd, patchy collection', are similarly lukewarm about 'Abbey Road' and are downright dismissive about 'Let it be'.

In many ways, the 68-69 period is the most interesting, but creatively I don't think that they ever recaptured the heights of those earlier years.

I need to pull both of those books out. Carr & Tyler's was my very first Beatles' book. I like Ian Macdonald's book for brutal analysis even where I disagree with him(i.e., "Across The Universe") but high praise in other parts.

[vectisfabber]

I loved side 2 of Abbey Road when it came out but, even then, I recognised that much of it was a cut-and-paste job - a very good one, but nonetheless, no more than a way of cobbling together half a dozen or more unconnected snippets of unfinished songs.

And then along came the internet and the Anthology and I began to encounter a number of those snippets in raw form. And, at that point, I began to comprehend the creativity which had gone into putting side 2 toegther. This was no "slap-it-together-and-see-how-it-fits" bodge job. This was a job by craftsmen, taking the unused pieces lying around the workshop, and then moulding, sanding, and shaping them to fit together to make a piece of furniture quite unlike anything else.

Excuse my meandering metaphor.

[John S. Damm]

Jul 18, 2010 16:17:37 GMT -5 vectisfabber said:

I loved side 2 of Abbey Road when it came out but, even then, I recognised that much of it was a cut-and-paste job - a very good one, but nonetheless, no more than a way of cobbling together half a dozen or more unconnected snippets of unfinished songs.

And then along came the internet and the Anthology and I began to encounter a number of those snippets in raw form. And, at that point, I began to comprehend the creativity which had gone into putting side 2 toegther. This was no "slap-it-together-and-see-how-it-fits" bodge job. This was a job by craftsmen, taking the unused pieces lying around the workshop, and then moulding, sanding, and shaping them to fit together to make a piece of furniture quite unlike anything else.

Excuse my meandering metaphor.

Well, it is a good metaphor because when you hear the demos and snippets on their own, it is hard to imagine that The Beatles and George Martin could make them a cohesive whole as AR-2 sounds.

[stavros]

Interesting comments from everyone. I do still to this day love "Let it Be" because it didn't need a massive production job to make it what it is. Having heard LIB Naked and the remastered edition it hasn't changed my opinion. But what is apparent after Sergeant Pepper is that the band were pulling in 3 (if not 4) different directions.

To anyone around at the time did you see the end of the band coming circa 1968?

[Joseph McCabe]

Jul 18, 2010 17:53:59 GMT -5 stavros said:

Interesting comments from everyone. I do still to this day love "Let it Be" because it didn't need a massive production job to make it what it is. Having heard LIB Naked and the remastered edition it hasn't changed my opinion. But what is apparent after Sergeant Pepper is that the band were pulling in 3 (if not 4) different directions.

To anyone around at the time did you see the end of the band coming circa 1968?

No definitely not. The White Album was very highly regarded, and the Fabs were on another huge crest, building on the superb Jude/Revolution single with this great double album. Yellow Submarine in late 68 was a nice bonus, especially with four new songs (or only 3, depending on which cut your country showed: but the album delivered all four newies in early 69). No sign of "the end".

The next Beatle hit sent the excitement down a notch: the single Get Back/Don't Let Me Down. It was OK, you know, but it wasn't a major work. Then we heard about the proposed Get Back album, we heard about George's walk-out, how the LP was shelved, but they were recording another album.

Suddenly Ballad/Old Brown Shoe popped up. Ballad was (among my group of friends) regarded as pretty much "shit" (who cared?), but Shoe we thought good.

Then Abbey Road was released, and I can tell you that we thought oh-oh, this is not good. We regarded the "long medley" as a cop-out. Many of us thought that the Beatles, unless they did something quickly to show they were still creative leaders, were now sliding down the pole. But we didn't think the end was coming.

1970 would tell the whole story. Another medicre album, aa VERY tedious film, then ... CLUNK. Finito.

[coachbk]

I was only 10 in 1968, but I had no thoughts at any point that the Beatles were on the way down. I loved each new single as it came out on the radio. I rarely heard albums (my mom had THE BEATLES 2ND ALBUM and later got HEY JUDE). An older brother of a friend of mine got LET IT BE practically the day it came out and I heard it and thought it was great (especially the title track and "Two Of Us") and liked the little bits of banter (which is why I'm less fond of LIB NAKED). Didn't hear ABBEY ROAD until around 1975 (though I knew the songs from the BLUE 67-70 album) and I thought side 2 was the greatest thing I'd ever heard.

[lowbasso]

Jul 18, 2010 18:32:19 GMT -5 Joseph McCabe said:

Jul 18, 2010 17:53:59 GMT -5 stavros said:

Interesting comments from everyone. I do still to this day love "Let it Be" because it didn't need a massive production job to make it what it is. Having heard LIB Naked and the remastered edition it hasn't changed my opinion. But what is apparent after Sergeant Pepper is that the band were pulling in 3 (if not 4) different directions.

To anyone around at the time did you see the end of the band coming circa 1968?

No definitely not. The White Album was very highly regarded, and the Fabs were on another huge crest, building on the superb Jude/Revolution single with this great double album. Yellow Submarine in late 68 was a nice bonus, especially with four new songs (or only 3, depending on which cut your country showed: but the album delivered all four newies in early 69). No sign of "the end".

The next Beatle hit sent the excitement down a notch: the single Get Back/Don't Let Me Down. It was OK, you know, but it wasn't a major work. Then we heard about the proposed Get Back album, we heard about George's walk-out, how the LP was shelved, but they were recording another album.

Suddenly Ballad/Old Brown Shoe popped up. Ballad was (among my group of friends) regarded as pretty much "shit" (who cared?), but Shoe we thought good.

Then Abbey Road was released, and I can tell you that we thought oh-oh, this is not good. We regarded the "long medley" as a cop-out. Many of us thought that the Beatles, unless they did something quickly to show they were still creative leaders, were now sliding down the pole. But we didn't think the end was coming.

1970 would tell the whole story. Another medicre album, aa VERY tedious film, then ... CLUNK. Finito.

I was 13 years old in 1968. The White Album was received very highly by most if not all fans. Except for Revolution 9. But John was hanging out with the wacko Japanese woman at that point and the naked "Two Virgins" came out right after The White Album, so we were starting to worry that John might be losing his mind. But The Beatles showed no sign of decay with the WA.
In 1969, we read (remember, there was NO INTERNET, CNN, etc.) via newspapers or TV, accounts of the rooftop concert, and Allen Klein coming in to try and run Apple. When John married Yoko, that was not a good sign, but I disagree with McCabe that when Abbey Road came out there was considerable disappointment. I really liked the album, especially the second side, and thought "Oh good, John can still make good music despite his wacky personal life."
When Paul finally announced in April, 1970 he was leaving the band it was kind of a surprise to me because I thought Abbey Road was such a good album. I was a little disbelieving of the news. But when the film Let It Be was released a month later in the US, I went to see it and saw a band in total disaray and couldn't believe these guys had gotten to this point prior to recording Abbey Road. The LIB album was a disappointment as well and I spent a long time hoping they would get it all straightened out and start recording together again.

BTW, The Temptations released a hit Motown single "Ball of Confusion" in the spring of 1970, and in the song are the following lyrics "Fear in the air, tension everywhere, unemployment rising fast, The Beatles' new record's a gas." This showed how much we all waited with great anticipation for every new recording by The Beatles, and that it was always inevitably a hit with everyone. And this was happening at the exact moment Paul was quitting the band.

When Paul released the single Uncle Albert in 1971, I heard it on the radio first and thought it sounded like all the Beatles were playing on it and figured they were back recording again.
But by the end of 1968 I don't think anyone thought the band was in decline and a breakup was iminent.

[Joseph McCabe]

Jul 18, 2010 20:08:04 GMT -5 lowbasso said:

-------------------- but I disagree with McCabe that when Abbey Road came out there was considerable disappointment.

Just to be very clear on this: It was only my group of friends that were mostly lukewarm about Abbey Road. There is no doubt at all that it was extremely well received generally. My girlfriend at the time thought it was really good - heh, tension in the relationship there. But she was a Paulie-girl, so that means a lot. She even thought that John Lennon's contributions to side 2 were embarrassing (quote: Mean Mr Mustard - that's not Lennon!).

[lowbasso]

Jul 18, 2010 16:17:37 GMT -5 vectisfabber said:

I loved side 2 of Abbey Road when it came out but, even then, I recognised that much of it was a cut-and-paste job - a very good one, but nonetheless, no more than a way of cobbling together half a dozen or more unconnected snippets of unfinished songs.

And then along came the internet and the Anthology and I began to encounter a number of those snippets in raw form. And, at that point, I began to comprehend the creativity which had gone into putting side 2 toegther. This was no "slap-it-together-and-see-how-it-fits" bodge job. This was a job by craftsmen, taking the unused pieces lying around the workshop, and then moulding, sanding, and shaping them to fit together to make a piece of furniture quite unlike anything else.

Excuse my meandering metaphor.

Excellent post on Side 2 of Abbey Road. I couldn't agree more. I loved the medley from the first time I heard it in 1969. I thought it was so cool to join together all those songs. I thought wow, Lennon & McCartney score another big hit! (Didn't know at the time it was McCartney's idea and John was pretty cool towards the medley).

[lowbasso]

Jul 18, 2010 1:46:14 GMT -5 Steve Marinucci said:

Jul 17, 2010 18:44:11 GMT -5 Joseph McCabe said:

Let It Be, side 2? No, sorry Fabs, but this is a sterile, empty set of songs. No creative drive, no urgency, no commitment. Since they are the Beatles, yes this is a pleasant collection - but merely pleasant. When the Beatles do "pleasant", they are not the great band of better days.

And what to say about Abbey Road, side 2? It's almost untouchable, isn't it? And maybe the "tournament favorite". Let's have a closer look.

Here Comes The Sun. An excellent Harrisong, put first to clear the decks for the upcoming Lennon/McCartney/Martin "masterpiece", the infamous medley.

Because. Wow, great singing, empty cliche-ridden lyrics. Ugh.

You Never Give Me Your Money. This could have been a Macca classic, but peters out into that yellow-lorry and 1234567 stuff. Nice tune, good lyric start, poor meandering end. This song, supposedly the start of the Long Medley, is really a fruit salad itself.

Sun King/Mean Mr Mustard. Recorded as a unit, this is another mini-medley. I wonder how long it took Lennon to compose Sun King? I'll go for five minutes. As for Mustard, er ... John, what did you say about granny music?

Polythene Pam/She Came In Through The Bathroom Window. The third medley within a medley. Pam rocks nicely, but pointlessly. Bathroom Window is just pointless.

But everyone has got the idea now: there are no longer any real songs left, so why don't we just meld together whatever we've got. George Martin is at last coming into his own.

Golden Slumbers/Carry That Weight/The End. The last medley-in-a-medley. Slumbers is nice, but we know Macca can do this stuff - nothing really new there. Carry That Weight reprises the "you never give me your money" plea from before, but it sounds contrived and forced. And The End? Very nicely done, but that cliche homespun philosophy of you get what you give (where have I heard that before?) - let me out of here.

Seriously, Abbey Road is, for me, a record with little real feeling except in little, rare bursts. For such a creative group, this album is not worthy of them.

Neither deserves my vote.

McCabe

You forgot "Her Majesty."

This isn't the Fabs of 1964. They're all grown up. It's their best and most cohesive album side, IMO. I'm really surprised at what you said.

McCabe; The review you give of AR Side 2 is clearly from your 2010 perspective. I believe you are old enough to have heard the album when it was originally released in 1969. I am curious how your review of the album from that perspective would have gone....