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Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 24, 2008 6:02:43 GMT -5
I love TOMORROW NEVER KNOWS. These days it might even be my favorite track to listen to off REVOLVER.
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Post by alltouttt on Nov 24, 2008 14:00:54 GMT -5
Briton sells Beatles' White Album for 24,500 euros
VIENNA (AFP) — An English professor in the Austrian town of Linz has sold a rare copy of the Beatles' White Album on Internet auction site eBay for close to 24,550 euros (31,365 dollars), the Austria Press Agency (APA) reported Monday.
The LP, which changed owners on Sunday, had the series number 0000005 -- the first four copies are allegedly still owned by the living members of the Fab Four or their families.
Briton Andrew Milton, who sold the precious record for 19,201 pounds, said he was still looking to sell other rare albums and Beatles' memorabilia on eBay, including another copy -- number 18 -- of the "White Album," APA added.
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Post by alltouttt on Nov 24, 2008 14:08:41 GMT -5
Why would you, and others, celebrate not hearing something from the Beatle vault? Is it possible you'll think differently after hearing it?
Is your comment about Tomorrow Never Knows related to my post? If it is, I think you missed the point. Or you're helping me make it.
If CofL had any artistic value, it would have seen the *light of day* one way or another in the last 40 years. And there is absolutely no comparison to be made between *Tomorrow Never Knows* and Revolution Number 9...9...9...9...9... whatsoever... Sorry!
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Post by joeyself on Nov 24, 2008 15:57:15 GMT -5
I'm glad CofL did not get released in the Anthologies. It would have been a waste of space. And what would have been left off to make room for it? I wouldn't want to have made that decision. True, but how about as part of the bonus tracks on the CD singles? Put the long "Helter Skelter" on one and "Carnival Of Light" on the other. There was plenty of room, no? JcS
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Post by revolver66 on Nov 24, 2008 21:26:52 GMT -5
I really think the Anthologies should have focused on all Unreleased Tracks instead of so many Alternate Takes(with many not that much different from the released versions or downright inferior). I would think that would be more exciting for the Hardcore Beatles fans who were the target audience. I mean if the Anthologies were meant to be for the general audience why not include all the Hits,Best LP cuts and a few Rare Tracks like most Box Sets do? While there is enough great stuff on the Six Discs I for one would rather have any Tracks I have never heard regardless of quality. Last my first experience with the White Album was in my early Teens(Mid 1970's). It was actually one of the last few LPs by the Fabs I needed(as it cost more). While I quite liked it there was just so much to soak up into my young brain. For the next Year or so it was an Event to sit and listen to the Complete White Album and not skip a Track(which I almost never did with my LPs as you never know when that track that didn't click will)!! Great LP Set for sure!
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Post by jimc on Nov 24, 2008 23:27:37 GMT -5
Why would you, and others, celebrate not hearing something from the Beatle vault? Is it possible you'll think differently after hearing it?
Is your comment about Tomorrow Never Knows related to my post? If it is, I think you missed the point. Or you're helping me make it. If CofL had any artistic value, it would have seen the *light of day* one way or another in the last 40 years. And there is absolutely no comparison to be made between *Tomorrow Never Knows* and Revolution Number 9...9...9...9...9... whatsoever... Sorry! Carnival might be terrible, but I'm damned excited to hear it. No comparison between Tomorrow Never Knows and Revolution 9? You can hate the latter, but take another look. Nine is the end of the string that began with Tomorrow Never Knows and includes Walrus. Lennon was performing, not on stage, but by manipulating the studio to create something new. And Nine is music. Check out this site: www.geocities.com/hammodotcom/beathoven/revhome.htmThis writers offers a detailed analysis of the track that I'm looking forward to digging into. He considers Nine symphonic in structure and writes: "Revolution #9 is a serious piece of music." After listening to it again yesterday, I think Nine stands up to anything the Beatles recorded. It's not pleasant and easy to enjoy or to tap one's foot to, but there is great substance to the track.
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Post by superhans on Nov 25, 2008 3:23:07 GMT -5
I really think the Anthologies should have focused on all Unreleased Tracks instead of so many Alternate Takes(with many not that much different from the released versions or downright inferior). I would think that would be more exciting for the Hardcore Beatles fans who were the target audience. Agree. 'Anthology II' (which would have contained 'Carnival of Light') has a particularly high count of early takes, showing a song 'in the making' - as opposed to interesting alternate versions. Most of this stuff is, IMO, pretty disposable and one or two, in particular, are of marginal interest. They could doubtless have filled out any number of CDs with endless amounts of this stuff. On this basis, they could easily have found a space on that double CD for at least a short section of CoL - and probably the whole track.
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Post by vectisfabber on Nov 25, 2008 4:17:58 GMT -5
I don't think hardcore Beatles fans were the target audience at all. I think the Anthology CDs were always intended to be wide appeal items, with track selections aimed at non-fans, so that alternates of all the well-known songs were there.
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Post by superhans on Nov 25, 2008 4:55:52 GMT -5
I don't think hardcore Beatles fans were the target audience at all. I think the Anthology CDs were always intended to be wide appeal items, with track selections aimed at non-fans, so that alternates of all the well-known songs were there. I've always felt that the Anthology CDs fell between two stools in terms of its approach - good though it is. Being mainly a collection of out-takes and alternate versions, it's really fan-fodder. However, Apple promoted it almost like a greatest hits package and sold it on the back of the reconstituted 'Threetles' singles and the TV series. Even though much of the material on the CDs is really only of interest to the die-hard fan, they still shied away from the Holy Grail fan stuff like the full 27 minute version of 'Helter Skelter' and 'Carnival of Light' - probably for fear of scaring off the casual listener.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 25, 2008 5:57:42 GMT -5
I do like the unreleased songs, but sorry -- I am also a huge fan of alternate takes. My favorite tracks of all on the Anthology Series are things like I'LL BE BACK, EIGHT DAYS A WEEK, NO REPLY, YOU'VE GOT TO HIDE YOUR LOVE AWAY, I'M DOWN, IT'S ONLY LOVE, ONLY A NORTHERN SONG ..... if I ever pull the Anthology CDs out these days, it's to hear the alternate takes.
I guess I would have been more excited about unreleased tracks like THAT MEANS A LOT, LEAVE MY KITTEN ALONE and IF YOU'VE GOT TROUBLE if I'd never heard them at all before; but I'd already had them a dozen times off bootlegs a decade before Anthology was ever released!
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Post by superhans on Nov 25, 2008 7:16:26 GMT -5
I do like the unreleased songs, but sorry -- I am also a huge fan of alternate takes. My favorite tracks of all on the Anthology Series are things like I'LL BE BACK, EIGHT DAYS A WEEK, NO REPLY, YOU'VE GOT TO HIDE YOUR LOVE AWAY, I'M DOWN, IT'S ONLY LOVE, ONLY A NORTHERN SONG ..... if I ever pull the Anthology CDs out these days, it's to hear the alternate takes. I guess I would have been more excited about unreleased tracks like THAT MEANS A LOT, LEAVE MY KITTEN ALONE and IF YOU'VE GOT TROUBLE if I'd never heard them at all before; but I'd already had them a dozen times off bootlegs a decade before Anthology was ever released! I'm going to contradict myself here, but I agree with you -- up to a point. The early material that you have mentioned has a great 'live' feel to it - and I really like that stuff...particularly the tracks you have mentioned. I would add 'You can't do that' to the list as well. I'm less enthused about the examples, especially on 'Antholgy II', where they combine take 11 with take 19 and 'fly in' a solo from take 23. That's the stuff I tend to skip over - and I'm sure one or two of those could have been elbowed to make way for 'Carnival' in part or in full. Just on the narrow point of fitting 'CoL' onto 'Anthology' - from memory, the running time of those CDs is only about an hour or so, so I'm sure disc space would have been available if required.
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Post by alltouttt on Nov 25, 2008 9:04:02 GMT -5
No comparison between Tomorrow Never Knows and Revolution 9? You can hate the latter, but take another look. Nine is the end of the string that began with Tomorrow Never Knows and includes Walrus. Lennon was performing, not on stage, but by manipulating the studio to create something new.
Oh! Hate is such a strong émotion... You can call Revolution 9 music if you want and you won't get that big an argument from me but it sure ain't much of a song which TNK is even with all the fancy studio tinkerings...
*Number 9* was all made from pre-recorded musical(classical)and spoken sources, as well as some real life noises which were processed and mixed together with modifications of speed, running some of the tapes backwards, and a great deal of crosscutting between sources. No narrative and no chords progressions, that's for sure...
It's a nice artistic experiment but one has got to wonder if we would still talk about it if it wasn't a Beatles' track which was slapped on a Pop/Rock Beatles' album...
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Post by superhans on Nov 25, 2008 9:30:55 GMT -5
It's a nice artistic experiment but one has got to wonder if we would still talk about it if it wasn't a Beatles' track which was slapped on a Pop/Rock Beatles' album... Well put. The answer is no one would give a stuff about it - and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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Post by alltouttt on Nov 25, 2008 9:47:26 GMT -5
"Tomorrow Never Knows" is another matter entirely ... Here's what Alan W. Pollack said about it ... "Tomorrow Never Knows" is a veritable kitchen-sink mix of just about every trick in the Beatles' book to-date, including: an Indian drone, modal tune, bluesy instrumental, tape loops, ADT, vocals played through revolving speakers, distortedly close-up miking of instruments, and a psychedelically mystical "outlook." One of the amazing aspects of this song is the extent to which this collage not merely hangs together, but pulls into such a powerfully focused, unified effect."powerfullly focused, unified effect" ... now that's one thing we'll never hear said about "Number 9"...
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Post by revolver66 on Nov 25, 2008 9:55:41 GMT -5
I don't think hardcore Beatles fans were the target audience at all. I think the Anthology CDs were always intended to be wide appeal items, with track selections aimed at non-fans, so that alternates of all the well-known songs were there. What I was trying to say is if the Anthologies were really for a General audience then why not include all the Hits,Great Lps cuts and just a few rare Tracks? That is what most box sets do that want to reach a wide audience. My take on Alternates is if it is quite different than the released version then that's a keeper(such as Eight Days A Week,Got To Get You Into My Life etc). However please explain the merits of the Alt Take of Kansas City,Yes It Is etc or as stated taking a piece of this version and mixing it with another to actually create a take?? Alternates of all the well know tracks weren't there either. No I Want To Hold Your Hand,She Loves You, Paperback Writer, etc..Many are missing. I agree that Apple wanted to pull in as many people as possible. With the TV Special and New Songs they did so. I still feel these sets were for the Hardercore Beatles fan. I can remember seeing so many Anthology Ones in the Used CD Bins and not selling at all(after the Hoopla cleared). That was a first for the Beatles for sure. I also heard that the Second and Third Volumes didn't sell as well as the first.
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Post by superhans on Nov 25, 2008 10:05:55 GMT -5
I don't think hardcore Beatles fans were the target audience at all. I think the Anthology CDs were always intended to be wide appeal items, with track selections aimed at non-fans, so that alternates of all the well-known songs were there. What I was trying to say is if the Anthologies were really for a General audience then why not include all the Hits,Great Lps cuts and just a few rare Tracks? That is what most box sets do that want to reach a wide audience. My take on Alternates is if it is quite different than the released version then that's a keeper(such as Eight Days A Week,Got To Get You Into My Life etc). However please explain the merits of the Alt Take of Kansas City,Yes It Is etc or as stated taking a piece of this version and mixing it with another to actually create a take?? Alternates of all the well know tracks weren't there either. No I Want To Hold Your Hand,She Loves You, Paperback Writer, etc..Many are missing. I agree that Apple wanted to pull in as many people as possible. With the TV Special and New Songs they did so. I still feel these sets were for the Hardercore Beatles fan. I can remember seeing so many Anthology Ones in the Used CD Bins and not selling at all(after the Hoopla cleared). That was a first for the Beatles for sure. I also heard that the Second and Third Volumes didn't sell as well as the first. Totally agree. Couldn't have put it better myself. I think there was a great deal of confusion from Apple as to how to market the 'Anthology' CDs. In the end, the product was really only of interest to dedicated fans, but the marketing was more akin to a Greatest Hits package - and Apple ducked including some of the more esoteric stuff (Carnival / Helter Skelter) for fear of scaring off the casual listener -- casual listeners who weren't interested in the CDs anyway.
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Post by Beatle Bob on Nov 25, 2008 15:48:56 GMT -5
I know I'm late to this thread (damn work!) but wanted to chime in on my overall feelings for the "White Album"--- I’ve always had trouble embracing this album fully. The discord within the band comes thru, especially where John is writing his first big batch of introspective songs, and Paul is writing cute ditties and full-out rockers– and George is starting to let loose with his own song writing abilities. Many say it’s the beginning of the musical identity split and I feel it as I listen to this album. I think they tried hard to have more of a group feel with Let It Be and Abbey Road and those albums come across as more cohesive and tighter. I still love the “White Album” but I do wish George Martin would have been able to pare it down to one album’s worth of the best material, instead of it being a 2 album set (as he had hoped). Regards, Beatle Bob (Bootleg reviewer on the Bootlegzone, 910, Beatleglist, etc)
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Post by winstonoboogie on Nov 25, 2008 19:22:26 GMT -5
I still love the “White Album” but I do wish George Martin would have been able to pare it down to one album’s worth of the best material, instead of it being a 2 album set (as he had hoped). Regards, Beatle Bob (Bootleg reviewer on the Bootlegzone, 910, Beatleglist, etc) ....so what would you have cut?
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Post by winstonoboogie on Nov 25, 2008 19:24:08 GMT -5
I do like the unreleased songs, but sorry -- I am also a huge fan of alternate takes. My favorite tracks of all on the Anthology Series are things like I'LL BE BACK, EIGHT DAYS A WEEK, NO REPLY, YOU'VE GOT TO HIDE YOUR LOVE AWAY, I'M DOWN, IT'S ONLY LOVE, ONLY A NORTHERN SONG ..... if I ever pull the Anthology CDs out these days, it's to hear the alternate takes. I guess I would have been more excited about unreleased tracks like THAT MEANS A LOT, LEAVE MY KITTEN ALONE and IF YOU'VE GOT TROUBLE if I'd never heard them at all before; but I'd already had them a dozen times off bootlegs a decade before Anthology was ever released! I'm going to contradict myself here, but I agree with you -- up to a point. The early material that you have mentioned has a great 'live' feel to it - and I really like that stuff...particularly the tracks you have mentioned. I would add 'You can't do that' to the list as well. I'm less enthused about the examples, especially on 'Antholgy II', where they combine take 11 with take 19 and 'fly in' a solo from take 23. That's the stuff I tend to skip over - and I'm sure one or two of those could have been elbowed to make way for 'Carnival' in part or in full. Just on the narrow point of fitting 'CoL' onto 'Anthology' - from memory, the running time of those CDs is only about an hour or so, so I'm sure disc space would have been available if required. Me, I could have done with more live tracks and not the instrumental tracks for "Eleanor Rigby" and "Within You Without You"....
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Post by Beatle Bob on Nov 25, 2008 20:16:02 GMT -5
I still love the “White Album” but I do wish George Martin would have been able to pare it down to one album’s worth of the best material, instead of it being a 2 album set (as he had hoped). Regards, Beatle Bob (Bootleg reviewer on the Bootlegzone, 910, Beatleglist, etc) ....so what would you have cut? That's a hard question, but I think I'd get rid of the so-called "solo tracks" and keep the ones that had more Beatles on a track -- offering more of the band's ambience. Even so, my thoughts of what would stay and what would get cut would change from hour to hour -- I'd probably say "keep the tracks that feel like they belong on solo albums", later tonight! Regards, Beatle Bob
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Post by johnpaulharstar on Nov 25, 2008 21:52:21 GMT -5
I had been a Beatles fan since they first arrived in the USA (shortly before my 6th birthday), but I didn't hear The White Album until around 1975. A friend of mine played it for me. It was the only time I ever heard any Beatles songs that I didn't like that were not Ringo songs ("What Goes On" and "Matchbox" were the only ones I hadn't liked up to that point). The songs I disliked were (in order), "Revolution 1", "Wild Honey Pie", "Revolution #9", "Yer Blues", and "Don't Pass Me By". I also didn't particularly care for "Sexy Sadie", "Long Long Long", "Why Don't We Do It In The Road" "Rocky Racoon" or "Savoy Truffle". I didn't like most of "Happiness Is A Warm Gun" and "Dear Prudence" I did not like as much as the cover version by Katfish which was out at the time. The only songs I had heard before were the three from the Blue collection ("Back To USSR", "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", and "Obladi Oblada"). That trio plus "Martha My Dear", "Blackbird", "I Will", "Piggies", "Helter Skelter", "The Continuing Story Of Bungalow Bill", "Julia" and "Birthday" were my favorites. I also liked "I'm So Tired", "Mother Nature's Son", "Good Night", "Everybodys Got Something To Hide Except Me And My Monkey", "Glass Onion", "Cry Baby Cry", and "Honey Pie". So at that time it is obvious I really liked most of Paul's stuff, was split on George's, and didn't think much of a lot of what John had come up with. How do I feel today? I still can't stand "Revolution #1" and "Wild Honey Pie" (did they really think these were better than "Not Guilty"?) and the novelty of "Revolution #9 has worn off (I'd have prefered "What's The New Mary Jane" as a "weird" track). I like the fiddle in "Don't Pass Me By", but not much else. I like the versions of "Yer Blues" on LIVE PEACE IN TORONTO, ROCK AND ROLL CIRCUS and my son's first CD, but just don't like the way the White Album version sounds. The piano is the only part of "Sexy Sadie" I like. There are some interesting musical bits to "Rocky Racoon" "Why Dont' We Do It In The Road", and "Savoy Truffle" too and I like them OK now. "Long Long Long" is just too quiet. It could have been better. All of my original favorites I still like a lot. "Dear Prudence" is now my 2nd favorite White Album song (behind "Back To USSR"). John's vocal is great, the guitar is quite nice, and the bass is fantastic. The mood of the song captures the spirit of meditation quite well. That leaves "Happiness Is A Warm Gun". I think I appreciate this song more than I actually enjoy it. Some parts I love and others still irritate me a bit. As to the album. I always list my favorite as REVOLVER. My next three favorites (and the order can vary) are SGT PEPPER, RUBBER SOUL, and ABBEY ROAD. THE WHITE ALBUM probably comes next, though MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR could challenge for that spot. So I probably don't rate it as highly as most of the other posters on here, but I still like it a lot and it is better than most other performer's best album!
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Post by superhans on Nov 26, 2008 3:39:00 GMT -5
I agree with both Beatle bob and JPH to a large extent. The White Album is an odd, patchy collection with more than its fair share of clunkers - but it also contains much excellent material and, in many ways, is the Beatles' most interesting album.
The frustrating thing for me is that I have always felt that it could have been improved with a few subtle alterations - but, in many ways, that's part of the fascination of the album.
Anyhow, it's the first album that I intend to buy when the re-masters come out. I just believe that there's still a bit more in there that I haven't discovered yet - and the re-masters would be a good time for a re-appraisal.
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