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Post by sayne on Jul 8, 2013 12:57:22 GMT -5
Oh geez i cant believe people are denigrating George's guitar playing (when im drunk this stufff really gets my gander -- when im sober i could care less one way or the other). Go back and listen to Beatlemania era music before they did a lot of overdubs. Its basically John and Paul on rhythm and bass and vocals. And George supplying most of the musical tones to the songs. And classic songs i might add. Don't get me wrong. George was a fine guitarist, played tastefully - with measure. Had his own sound and style. Superb and unique slide guitarist. But, here's the point. George was in a rock band. His choice of music was rock. He was a rock lead guitarist. Many of us wish our guy RAWKED. Is that asking too much? Not even "his" best lead parts were his (Taxman, While My Guitar Gently Weeps). Neil Young's fans get to hear him RAWK, though a lot of his stuff was mellow acoustic stuff. Stephen Stills' fans get to hear him RAWK. Dave Gilmour's fans hear him wail. Mark Knofler's fans get to hear him gun sling. These guys aren't "shredders" in the strictest sense, but they satisfied the rockers. Many of us just wish George would have gone there, too, once in a while. There's a time for everything. Some of us like to sometimes drive with the top down and crank "Born to be Wild." It would have been nice to be able to crank George every so often.
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markc
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Post by markc on Jul 10, 2013 8:39:35 GMT -5
Old Brown Shoe may be one of his best "rawk" solos.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 10, 2013 9:27:57 GMT -5
Old Brown Shoe may be one of his best "rawk" solos. I agree Mark and that song to me is George's best original "Rock and Roll" song! George does a lot of ballads or mid-paced songs but his "rockers" are few and far between. OBS is a rocker with a great lead guitar.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 10, 2013 9:54:08 GMT -5
Old Brown Shoe may be one of his best "rawk" solos. Very true. Forgot about that one (possibly because it's like finding a needle in a haystack).
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Post by sayne on Jul 10, 2013 9:57:02 GMT -5
Old Brown Shoe may be one of his best "rawk" solos. 10 seconds. Wow! I wonder how long it took him to nail that one. Keith Richards said (not as a criticism of George) that George Martin recorded George's guitar too thinly. Compare this version to Leslie West's and you'll see what he means. Leslie's isn't faster, it's a slow blues, but it rocks more than George's: And, here's an example of what irks us about George. Look who's doing the lead here: Why in the heck didn't he do his own lead? He left it up to Andy Fairweather-Low to play it. What's up with that? When Andy plays with Clapton, there is no question WHO is THE guitarist up on stage. Andy supports Slowhand. George IS a lead guitarist who does not play lead guitar. THAT's the frustrating part. I cannot imagine Clapton, Page, Beck, Fogarty, Stills, Young, Gilmore, Knofler, Chapman, May, or any other lead guitarist letting someone else play a signature lead. Remember, I said "every so often," so out of a nearly 40 year career, I'm not interested in hearing 10 seconds here or 10 seconds there from songs years apart as evidence that George RAWKED. He didn't. His skill was someplace else, which is okay, but for those who like to rock, we salute others.
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markc
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Post by markc on Jul 10, 2013 10:16:30 GMT -5
From the early years, I'd have to mention the solos in I Saw Her Standing There, and Long Tall Sally. Also good is George's lead throughout One After 909 on the rooftop. Some missed opportunities to really "shred": Everybody's Got Something to Hide ...and It's All Too Much, both of which have hints of it. Same with Honey Hush from the Get Back sessions. 1968 Not Guilty guitar rocks pretty good too.
Has anyone ever determined if it's Geo or EC on P2 Vatican Blues? As a daily reader but infrequent poster, I'd better stop now.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 10, 2013 10:21:47 GMT -5
Keith Richards said (not as a criticism of George) that George Martin recorded George's guitar too thinly. Compare this version to Leslie West's and you'll see what he means. . Why bother? The Beatles are The Most Successful Group, and their recordings produced more hit records than any other band in history. They are the standard by which any other band must bow down to -- not any other way around.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 10, 2013 10:41:26 GMT -5
From the early years, I'd have to mention the solos in I Saw Her Standing There, and Long Tall Sally. Also good is George's lead throughout One After 909 on the rooftop. Some missed opportunities to really "shred": Everybody's Got Something to Hide ...and It's All Too Much, both of which have hints of it. Same with Honey Hush from the Get Back sessions. 1968 Not Guilty guitar rocks pretty good too. Has anyone ever determined if it's Geo or EC on P2 Vatican Blues? As a daily reader but infrequent poster, I'd better stop now. LOL, no keep going Mark as you are a long-time veteran here and the Board before and it is good to hear from you and your insights!
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Post by vectisfabber on Jul 10, 2013 11:18:44 GMT -5
Did George play the Hey Bulldog solo?
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 10, 2013 11:29:01 GMT -5
Did George play the Hey Bulldog solo? I think so and if so that is a great one!
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markc
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Post by markc on Jul 10, 2013 11:47:26 GMT -5
Good point about Hey Bulldog. I always thought it was interesting that it sounded like a 1966 type solo in 1968.
As to why he had Andy Fairweather-Low play the OBS solo live, I wonder if George's years of gardening impaired his finger dexterity, thus the almost total transformation to a slide lead guitarist. Pulling weeds is hell on the hands!
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Post by mikev on Jul 10, 2013 12:19:58 GMT -5
Generally, a lead guitarist does the little riffs and fills throughout a song while the rhythm guitarist strums or plays appregio. George was a master of this secondary role as a lead guitarist, even live.
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Post by heysaboda on Jul 10, 2013 12:55:39 GMT -5
Oh geez i cant believe people are denigrating George's guitar playing (when im drunk this stufff really gets my gander -- when im sober i could care less one way or the other). Go back and listen to Beatlemania era music before they did a lot of overdubs. Its basically John and Paul on rhythm and bass and vocals. And George supplying most of the musical tones to the songs. And classic songs i might add. And lest we forget, George's solo to "And I Love Her" is stunningly gorgeous. His solo really elevates the song.
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Post by sayne on Jul 10, 2013 12:56:33 GMT -5
Generally, a lead guitarist does the little riffs and fills throughout a song while the rhythm guitarist strums or plays appregio. George was a master of this secondary role as a lead guitarist, even live. Eric and Carl rocked more than George. George was traditional and played close to the vest. No snarl, or RAWK, if you will. Elvis Costello once said "rock" was like a real rock - pulled out of the dirt, hard and dirty. I think the last time George was ever really like that was Cry for a Shadow. Yes, George played riffs and arpeggios. It would have been nice to see extended fingering up and down the fretboard. Not even thinking of Van Halen or Malmsteen stuff. It would have been great if the entire The End guitar solos were from him alone. That would have shut me up forever.
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Post by heysaboda on Jul 10, 2013 13:06:20 GMT -5
To me, that is why FAAB did not sound like a "Beatles" song because as perhaps sayne is suggesting or concluding, where did George play slide guitar as a Beatle? Don't get me wrong, that is a smoking hot slide guitar solo in FAAB but that sounds like 1970 on solo George not even the George of Abbey Road where I think he plays among his coolest leads throughout, even if just short fills. I see your point John, but one of the things I like about FAAB is that Paul, George and Ringo made no attempt to "sound like they used to". Their musicianship had improved and matured since 1969, so what we got was what a Beatles song could have sounded like in the mid 90's.
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Post by sayne on Jul 10, 2013 13:07:26 GMT -5
Oh geez i cant believe people are denigrating George's guitar playing (when im drunk this stufff really gets my gander -- when im sober i could care less one way or the other). Go back and listen to Beatlemania era music before they did a lot of overdubs. Its basically John and Paul on rhythm and bass and vocals. And George supplying most of the musical tones to the songs. And classic songs i might add. And lest we forget, George's solo to "And I Love Her" is stunningly gorgeous. His solo really elevates the song. Oh, yeah, that's a real rocker. Why don't we throw in Till There Was You? Again, we're not talking about being clean and tasteful and measured - his wheelhouse. I'm talking about gunslinging.
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Post by sayne on Jul 10, 2013 13:09:07 GMT -5
To me, that is why FAAB did not sound like a "Beatles" song because as perhaps sayne is suggesting or concluding, where did George play slide guitar as a Beatle? Don't get me wrong, that is a smoking hot slide guitar solo in FAAB but that sounds like 1970 on solo George not even the George of Abbey Road where I think he plays among his coolest leads throughout, even if just short fills. I see your point John, but one of the things I like about FAAB is that Paul, George and Ringo made no attempt to "sound like they used to". Their musicianship had improved and matured since 1969, so what we got was what a Beatles song could have sounded like in the mid 90's. That's why a real Beatles reunion would not have worked because George would have put slide on everything and Paul would not have been okay with that.
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Post by sayne on Jul 10, 2013 13:13:51 GMT -5
Did George play the Hey Bulldog solo? If he did, again, too short and measured. I'm sure Townsend and Richards would have toughened that up quite a bit.
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Post by sayne on Jul 10, 2013 13:22:19 GMT -5
Again, just so people don't misunderstand. I think George was a fine guitarist. Here's a great interview with Alice Cooper that makes my and, I'm sure, all of your arguments when we defend George to others. The whole interview is good, but for the George part you should go to the 2:10 mark: linkIf George had only taken this style and gone off, too. Clapton played with taste AND got down, when needed. Mark Knofler? You bet. Even someone like Vince Gill.
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Post by mikev on Jul 10, 2013 14:37:28 GMT -5
Generally, a lead guitarist does the little riffs and fills throughout a song while the rhythm guitarist strums or plays appregio. George was a master of this secondary role as a lead guitarist, even live. Eric and Carl rocked more than George. George was traditional and played close to the vest. No snarl, or RAWK, if you will. Elvis Costello once said "rock" was like a real rock - pulled out of the dirt, hard and dirty. I think the last time George was ever really like that was Cry for a Shadow. Yes, George played riffs and arpeggios. It would have been nice to see extended fingering up and down the fretboard. Not even thinking of Van Halen or Malmsteen stuff. It would have been great if the entire The End guitar solos were from him alone. That would have shut me up forever. I said this somewhere before- between the ages of 29 to now is when I self taught myself to really play lead guitar, and that is with raising kids and working full time. I can't really shred, but I can play tasty riffs and continue to tutor myself on youtube videos. George had all the time in the world to continue to learn and improve his craft. He could buy any guitar or amp he wanted and get anyone to play with him. He simply chose not to.
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markc
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Post by markc on Jul 10, 2013 14:50:28 GMT -5
George really honed his craft on slide. His melodic sense and tone control is most comparable to Jeff Beck's than anyone else's. And then he went on to concentrate on the uke.
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Post by sayne on Jul 10, 2013 14:51:58 GMT -5
George had all the time in the world to continue to learn and improve his craft. He could buy any guitar or amp he wanted and get anyone to play with him. He simply chose not to. That's not very laudable, is it? There is always something new to learn - a new scale, a new chord, a new progression, a new rhyming pattern, a new combination of instruments, etc. I know he enjoyed jamming with Alvin Lee and being on stage with Deep Purple. I wish he would have taken that same attitude to his records. That's what I really disliked about Traveling Wilbury's Volume 3. They got Gary Moore to play that tough lead She's My Baby. That shoulda been George.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 10, 2013 15:53:19 GMT -5
To me, that is why FAAB did not sound like a "Beatles" song because as perhaps sayne is suggesting or concluding, where did George play slide guitar as a Beatle? Don't get me wrong, that is a smoking hot slide guitar solo in FAAB but that sounds like 1970 on solo George not even the George of Abbey Road where I think he plays among his coolest leads throughout, even if just short fills. I see your point John, but one of the things I like about FAAB is that Paul, George and Ringo made no attempt to "sound like they used to". Their musicianship had improved and matured since 1969, so what we got was what a Beatles song could have sounded like in the mid 90's. Very true and a good point! Why look backwards, they rarely did as a group in the 1960's! One place they did sound just like on Abbey Road was Paul's and George's back-up vocals! That was thrilling and for me justified FAAB alone, to hear those two straddle up to a mic once more. I do agree with sayne that while Paul probably enjoys a good slide guitar solo like the next guy, Paul does love his guitar shredders and reminds us how he loved Jimi H in the 1960's and admired Clapton's Cream work. In short, Paul would enjoy a periodic slide guitar solo from his lead guitarist but would also want his lead guitarist to also be able to shred a blazing solo when Paul thought the song called for it. I will again plug Simon Leng's book which made me really appreciate George's guitar playing, limitations and all as to "shredding."
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markc
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Post by markc on Jul 10, 2013 16:00:59 GMT -5
As often as John, Paul and George said they didn't need each other in the solo years, John and Paul often had people play George like slide solos in their songs. John especially had Jesse Ed Davis play a lot of slide. Think #9 Dream, I Know I Know. Paul in No Words.
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 10, 2013 16:27:18 GMT -5
Oh geez i cant believe people are denigrating George's guitar playing (when im drunk this stufff really gets my gander -- when im sober i could care less one way or the other). Go back and listen to Beatlemania era music before they did a lot of overdubs. Its basically John and Paul on rhythm and bass and vocals. And George supplying most of the musical tones to the songs. And classic songs i might add. Don't get me wrong. George was a fine guitarist, played tastefully - with measure. Had his own sound and style. Superb and unique slide guitarist. But, here's the point. George was in a rock band. His choice of music was rock. He was a rock lead guitarist. Many of us wish our guy RAWKED. Is that asking too much? Not even "his" best lead parts were his (Taxman, While My Guitar Gently Weeps). Neil Young's fans get to hear him RAWK, though a lot of his stuff was mellow acoustic stuff. Stephen Stills' fans get to hear him RAWK. Dave Gilmour's fans hear him wail. Mark Knofler's fans get to hear him gun sling. These guys aren't "shredders" in the strictest sense, but they satisfied the rockers. Many of us just wish George would have gone there, too, once in a while. There's a time for everything. Some of us like to sometimes drive with the top down and crank "Born to be Wild." It would have been nice to be able to crank George every so often. I understand what you're saying. George never did cut loose in that way. I think that part of him got stifled by playing in the Beatles. I mean, a jam band guitarist wouldn't have worked in that context. You had those immaculately constructed songs and George would only have a few bars to cram in a melody that had to work within the structure of the song.
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 10, 2013 16:35:44 GMT -5
Those of you complaining that it "took George a long time to get his guitar parts," as if thats a sign of a lack of natural talent . . . I've heard four or five different takes of "And Your Bird Can Sing" and in every take George refines and improves his guitar part. The point is, the guitar in the first take was quite passable. And most guitarists would have been happy to come up with something of that quality. But George kept working on it until it was perfect.
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 10, 2013 16:43:17 GMT -5
Another favorite George lick.
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 10, 2013 16:54:30 GMT -5
According to this guy, George plays a little slide on "Baby You Can Drive My Car."
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Post by debjorgo on Jul 10, 2013 18:29:30 GMT -5
The guitar on Wa Wa is pretty rawkin', albeit a slide guitar.
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Post by mikev on Jul 10, 2013 20:17:21 GMT -5
As often as John, Paul and George said they didn't need each other in the solo years, John and Paul often had people play George like slide solos in their songs. John especially had Jesse Ed Davis play a lot of slide. Think #9 Dream, I Know I Know. Paul in No Words. I still think that is George's slide on Paul's Warm and Beautiful. How about Bring on the Lucie? (Dave Spinozza).
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