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Post by debjorgo on Dec 6, 2015 22:47:34 GMT -5
'Meet the Beatles' probably is better than 'With The Beatles', but this is not evidence of Dave Dexter Jr.'s greatness. I'm pretty sure I could give a chimpanzee 40 Beatles' tracks from 1962-64 and it could make as good an album as the ones actually issued. The chimp should not then be praised for describing an generation's entry into adulthood. Is that a veiled reference to the Monkees?
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Post by John S. Damm on Dec 6, 2015 23:19:29 GMT -5
'Meet the Beatles' probably is better than 'With The Beatles', but this is not evidence of Dave Dexter Jr.'s greatness. I'm pretty sure I could give a chimpanzee 40 Beatles' tracks from 1962-64 and it could make as good an album as the ones actually issued. The chimp should not then be praised for describing an generation's entry into adulthood. LOL, I agree! My only nod to Mr. Dexter will be not to make his grave as wet as I could! I bought that American Capitol Box back in early 2014 and that is a dust collector at my place. In fairness to whoever, I like the American albums including the singles but that wasn't relevant to the American Rubber Soul. I can dig American RS when I play it once a decade but I view it as a novelty now. The American Revolver is the Capitol album that upsets me the most, being Lennon Lite.
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andyb
Very Clean
Posts: 878
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Post by andyb on Dec 7, 2015 9:28:36 GMT -5
Rubber Soul without Nowhere Man! That's an absolute conversation stopper. No need to manufacture anymore of those albums or waste electricity playing it. Terrible waste of the world's resources.
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Post by coachbk on Dec 7, 2015 11:33:54 GMT -5
I've said it many times, the best version of RUBBER SOUL is a combination of the US and UK versions. BEST THINGS ABOUT US VERSION: 1. "I've Just Seen A Face" is the perfect opener for the album. 2. "It's Only Love" fits well. 3. The one weak track from the UK ("What Goes On") is not there. BEST THINGS ABOUT THE UK VERSION: 1. "Nowhere Man", "If I Needed Someone" and "Drive My Car" are included. 2. It has 14 songs as opposed to 12 for the US. 3. Two Harrison songs at a time when he was surely worthy of having two songs.
So I prefer my own homemade CD which combines the two!
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Post by Panther on Dec 7, 2015 18:50:14 GMT -5
Rubber Soul without Nowhere Man! That's an absolute conversation stopper. I agree. I like 'I've Just Seen a Face' as an opener (though its absence on Help! craps all over that LP), but 'Nowhere Man' is bloody essential on Rubber Soul. To me, that's the quintessential song on the album.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 8, 2015 6:57:38 GMT -5
'Meet the Beatles' probably is better than 'With The Beatles', but this is not evidence of Dave Dexter Jr.'s greatness. I'm pretty sure I could give a chimpanzee 40 Beatles' tracks from 1962-64 and it could make as good an album as the ones actually issued. The chimp should not then be praised for describing an generation's entry into adulthood. For starters, I would never call Dave Dexter Jr. "great" (where does that word come from, who said it... and isn't that an exaggeration expression for people who enjoy the Capitol LPs?). But for me, it's THE BEATLES' SECOND ALBUM which is more evidence of what Dexter inadvertently brought to the table. It is my favorite Beatles album of all time, and is relentlessly rockin', with a balls-to-the-wall intensity level of tough RNR. I have talked to quite a few people on message boards who share the love for SECOND ALBUM, and of course Dave Marsh even wrote a book praising just that one LP .
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 8, 2015 7:15:35 GMT -5
Regarding the absence of "Nowhere Man" on the US version of RUBBER SOUL -- to me, that makes YESTERDAY...AND TODAY all the more fun! It's got all the songs along with "Nowhere Man" ... like "Drive My Car", "If I Needed Someone", "What Goes On" & "Act Naturally" (that's TWO songs for Ringo!) .. and it makes good usage of the neglected Lennon tracks that were missing from the (admittedly) poor US version of REVOLVER: "And Your Bird Can Sing", "Dr. Robert", "I'm Only Sleeping". As an added bonus, it also contains the great hit single "We Can Work It Out"/"Day Tripper" ... and the classic "Yesterday"..!
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 8, 2015 7:23:44 GMT -5
I bought that American Capitol Box back in early 2014 and that is a dust collector at my place. It's a dust collector at my place too - and it should never have been issued, because that 2014 scam of a release is NOT "The Capitol Albums" ... they are the sterile versions from the remasters! Besides, at my place these days I only play Vinyl ... and it's usually the very old original US Capitols! It's very strange when I think back to when I was a teenager and haunted stores like SAM GOODY, RECORD WORLD, and TSS in order to seek out the pristine, almost too-perfect UK and Japanese Import LPs! I'm sure we can all agree that the US REVOLVER is bad because it left off a bunch of Lennon tracks. But as I wrote in another post, that makes YESTERDAY...AND TODAY so much more fun, IMO.
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Post by John S. Damm on Dec 8, 2015 10:36:42 GMT -5
It's a dust collector at my place too - and it should never have been issued, because that 2014 scam of a release is NOT "The Capitol Albums" ... they are the sterile versions from the remasters! Besides, at my place these days I only play Vinyl ... and it's usually the very old original US Capitols! It's very strange when I think back to when I was a teenager and haunted stores like SAM GOODY, RECORD WORLD, and TSS in order to seek out the pristine, almost too-perfect UK and Japanese Import LPs! Is that true Joe? I have forgotten all of 2014 already. So those aren't the Dexterized versions on the applicable albums? Just the 2009 remastered versions slapped into American packaging? I forgot that and if true SHAME on Capitol/Apple! I bitch about Dexter but I bought the box to get the songs as I remembered them as a young teen in case I ever got sentimental. I do have those Volumes I and II boxes, those are the original American mixes, right?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2015 13:49:00 GMT -5
I prefer the UK releases, the albums, EP's and singles that the Beatles and George Martin put together the way they wanted them released.
Those American Beatles albums, the hybrid Beatles albums, take some getting used to, well, i never got used to them.
I do understand for a fair chunk of the Beatles career the Americans were playing catch up. Too bad it was with inferior releases.
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Post by John S. Damm on Dec 8, 2015 16:16:45 GMT -5
I prefer the UK releases, the albums, EP's and singles that the Beatles and George Martin put together the way they wanted them released. Those American Beatles albums, the hybrid Beatles albums, take some getting used to, well, i never got used to them. I do understand for a fair chunk of the Beatles career the Americans were playing catch up. Too bad it was with inferior releases. In the U.S. we couldn't even get the last Beatles' album right: LIB wasn't released as a box over here with a book!
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Dec 8, 2015 17:47:50 GMT -5
Does it matter anymore what songs came out on what albums, be they the UK versions or the USA versions? I grew up with The Beatles as a live band buying each US album as it was released. But now I have the entire Beatles Catalogue on my Ipod simply listed in the general chronological order they were recorded. If I am in the mood for some '64 Beatles, I put on that section of my collection. Or any other year I may so wish to hear. But I really have no interest anymore in playing just the UK Rubber Soul Album or the US Revolver album. The track orders are not that important to me anymore. Just the songs from the particular Beatles era or year I want to hear are.
And kids today who become interested in The Beatles just go on Itunes or whatever and buy and download what they want to hear. Most do not choose their music based on the old albums tracks from an era a half century ago.
If I listen to Sinatra, or any artist for that matter from decades ago, I choose the songs I want to hear, I don't ever order just an old album from the artist's output. Honestly, the only album I now listen to as a collection is CSNY's "Deja Vu". The only one. None of The Beatles albums interest me as a collection anymore. I love the jackets the vinyls came in, but the track order?
So does it really matter which Rubber Soul album is "better". It's the songs that they recorded in 1965 that matter, not which album they wound up on. I am interested in just the songs now. And I would hazard to guess most non hard-core Beatle fans are in that camp. And as we get further and further away from the living fans of the 60's and 70's, eventually the original albums will be just footnotes I think.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 8, 2015 18:58:34 GMT -5
Does it matter anymore what songs came out on what albums, be they the UK versions or the USA versions? I grew up with The Beatles as a live band buying each US album as it was released. But now I have the entire Beatles Catalogue on my Ipod simply listed in the general chronological order they were recorded. If I am in the mood for some '64 Beatles, I put on that section of my collection. Or any other year I may so wish to hear. But I really have no interest anymore in playing just the UK Rubber Soul Album or the US Revolver album. The track orders are not that important to me anymore. Just the songs from the particular Beatles era or year I want to hear are. And kids today who become interested in The Beatles just go on Itunes or whatever and buy and download what they want to hear. Most do not choose their music based on the old albums tracks from an era a half century ago. If I listen to Sinatra, or any artist for that matter from decades ago, I choose the songs I want to hear, I don't ever order just an old album from the artist's output. Honestly, the only album I now listen to as a collection is CSNY's "Deja Vu". The only one. None of The Beatles albums interest me as a collection anymore. I love the jackets the vinyls came in, but the track order? So does it really matter which Rubber Soul album is "better". It's the songs that they recorded in 1965 that matter, not which album they wound up on. I am interested in just the songs now. And I would hazard to guess most non hard-core Beatle fans are in that camp. And as we get further and further away from the living fans of the 60's and 70's, eventually the original albums will be just footnotes I think. I think it still should matter. This business of kids today "choosing to download just the tracks they like" means they don't eve get a chance to hear a lot of The Beatles' album tracks in their entirety, to get familiarized with them as we did. I think it's rather sad. And just one other lousy thing (albeit small) about Today.
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Post by debjorgo on Dec 8, 2015 18:59:19 GMT -5
Does it matter anymore what songs came out on what albums, be they the UK versions or the USA versions? I grew up with The Beatles as a live band buying each US album as it was released. But now I have the entire Beatles Catalogue on my Ipod simply listed in the general chronological order they were recorded. If I am in the mood for some '64 Beatles, I put on that section of my collection. Or any other year I may so wish to hear. ... The Beatles remastered 1 has just become available on iTunes. The Long and Winding Road is the most popular at the moment. Go Let it Be album!
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 8, 2015 19:05:41 GMT -5
I prefer the UK releases, the albums, EP's and singles that the Beatles and George Martin put together the way they wanted them released. Do you play them that way? I mean, just the physical vinyl, and only the 45's and EPs, when you want to hear those songs? I certainly disagree that they were always "inferior releases". MEET THE BEATLES > WITH THE BEATLES, and BEATLES '65 > BEATLES FOR SALE, for instance. As for playing catch up, the song "Bad Boy" was debuted on BEATLES VI, so the Brits had to catch up on that one with their poor "A COLLECTION OF BEATLES OLDIES" album.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 8, 2015 19:08:19 GMT -5
It's a dust collector at my place too - and it should never have been issued, because that 2014 scam of a release is NOT "The Capitol Albums" ... they are the sterile versions from the remasters! Besides, at my place these days I only play Vinyl ... and it's usually the very old original US Capitols! It's very strange when I think back to when I was a teenager and haunted stores like SAM GOODY, RECORD WORLD, and TSS in order to seek out the pristine, almost too-perfect UK and Japanese Import LPs! Is that true Joe? I have forgotten all of 2014 already. So those aren't the Dexterized versions on the applicable albums? Just the 2009 remastered versions slapped into American packaging? I forgot that and if true SHAME on Capitol/Apple! I bitch about Dexter but I bought the box to get the songs as I remembered them as a young teen in case I ever got sentimental. I do have those Volumes I and II boxes, those are the original American mixes, right? Yes, it's true .. the 2014 releases were not the Capitol mixes. I bought the box just for the packaging, and stuck the older Vol 1 and Vol 2 discs in it! (But it's moot anyway, as I generally play the US vinyl albums these days).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2015 20:21:00 GMT -5
I prefer the UK releases, the albums, EP's and singles that the Beatles and George Martin put together the way they wanted them released. Do you play them that way? I mean, just the physical vinyl, and only the 45's and EPs, when you want to hear those songs? I certainly disagree that they were always "inferior releases". MEET THE BEATLES > WITH THE BEATLES, and BEATLES '65 > BEATLES FOR SALE, for instance. As for playing catch up, the song "Bad Boy" was debuted on BEATLES VI, so the Brits had to catch up on that one with their poor "A COLLECTION OF BEATLES OLDIES" album. I don't play vinyl, i don't own a stereo, i'm long over the snap, crackle, pop and jump idiosyncrasies of that outdated medium.Interesting that more and more people want to relive those annoying elements of yesterday, today.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2015 20:23:01 GMT -5
I prefer the UK releases, the albums, EP's and singles that the Beatles and George Martin put together the way they wanted them released. Those American Beatles albums, the hybrid Beatles albums, take some getting used to, well, i never got used to them. I do understand for a fair chunk of the Beatles career the Americans were playing catch up. Too bad it was with inferior releases. In the U.S. we couldn't even get the last Beatles' album right: LIB wasn't released as a box over here with a book! The old adage, Last but not Least, hasn't been applied in this instance.
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Post by debjorgo on Dec 8, 2015 20:34:34 GMT -5
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kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
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Post by kc on Dec 8, 2015 21:49:36 GMT -5
Is that true Joe? I have forgotten all of 2014 already. So those aren't the Dexterized versions on the applicable albums? Just the 2009 remastered versions slapped into American packaging? I forgot that and if true SHAME on Capitol/Apple! I bitch about Dexter but I bought the box to get the songs as I remembered them as a young teen in case I ever got sentimental. I do have those Volumes I and II boxes, those are the original American mixes, right? Yes, it's true .. the 2014 releases were not the Capitol mixes. I bought the box just for the packaging, and stuck the older Vol 1 and Vol 2 discs in it! (But it's moot anyway, as I generally play the US vinyl albums these days). I was thinking about doing the same thing, but didn't eventually bother. The U.S. Albums project should have been so easy to execute, but no, they improved the individual albums' sleeve artwork, included the albums missing from the two Capitol Albums sets and came up with an attractive box to put them all in, but at the same time botched the actual audio.
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Post by debjorgo on Dec 8, 2015 22:02:48 GMT -5
Apple wanted a new big ticket release to commemorate the 1964 American invasion anniversary. Releasing all the American Albums with the newest mixes (no dexterization) seemed like a good idea. That it stepped all over the previous big ticket release, didn't seem to get consideration.
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kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
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Post by kc on Dec 8, 2015 22:42:47 GMT -5
Apple wanted a new big ticket release to commemorate the 1964 American invasion anniversary. Releasing all the American Albums with the newest mixes (no dexterization) seemed like a good idea. That it stepped all over the previous big ticket release, didn't seem to get consideration. I wonder who it seemed a good idea to?
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Post by debjorgo on Dec 8, 2015 22:56:41 GMT -5
Apple wanted a new big ticket release to commemorate the 1964 American invasion anniversary. Releasing all the American Albums with the newest mixes (no dexterization) seemed like a good idea. That it stepped all over the previous big ticket release, didn't seem to get consideration. I wonder who it seemed a good idea to? Good question. Who got Neil Aspinall's old job?
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 9, 2015 12:05:38 GMT -5
I don't play vinyl, i don't own a stereo, i'm long over the snap, crackle, pop and jump idiosyncrasies of that outdated medium.Interesting that more and more people want to relive those annoying elements of yesterday, today. Then something is not consistent. You said you want these releases the way The Beatles and George Martin intended them... and that is on various separate 45's, and EP's, in addition to the LPs. That's the way they were put out and intended. By the way, any serious vinyl collector with a good system who cares for his records will tell you that's a load of nonsense regarding "jumps, snaps, crackles, and pops".
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2015 16:41:43 GMT -5
I don't play vinyl, i don't own a stereo, i'm long over the snap, crackle, pop and jump idiosyncrasies of that outdated medium.Interesting that more and more people want to relive those annoying elements of yesterday, today. Then something is not consistent. You said you want these releases the way The Beatles and George Martin intended them... and that is on various separate 45's, and EP's, in addition to the LPs. That's the way they were put out and intended. By the way, any serious vinyl collector with a good system who cares for his records will tell you that's a load of nonsense regarding "jumps, snaps, crackles, and pops". I grew up in the vinyl era, definitely not nonsense. It may well be nonsense to turn a blind eye to vinyls downside.
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Post by stavros on Dec 9, 2015 17:38:24 GMT -5
I am late joining this debate and it seems to have morphed from a just a discussion about 'solely' Rubber Soul.
Being a Brit and not being around when "Rubber Soul" was originally released as two different albums on either side of the Atlantic I am very familiar with the album as the Beatles (and George Martin) intended it to be.
However taking the original US release as totally a standalone project I think it works rather well. Whether that was by design or complete fluke I don't know. But it holds together well with Dexter's track selection giving it a warm acoustic, folksy feeling about the album in general.
Of course the omission of the brilliant "Nowhere Man" and impact on the other Beatles US albums brings something else into the debate. But I suppose we could also argue whether Paperback Writer and Rain should have been on there in place of other tracks. I've always felt "Run For Your Life" was a bit of a filler and not a show stopper to end the album on. But there it is winding up both versions of the album.
I also finally got the "Hey Jude" album earlier this year and have grown rather fond of it. Even though it's basically a mish-mash of leftovers and each track follows chronologically. But I like every track on that album. Not only that it really looks like it fits in with the Beatles Album box set as well because of that cool cover. Much more so than the Past Masters CD. But it was never intended for the British market. (Despite it being very easily available like MMT).
Are we too serious about the programming of 'albums' in this day and age where we can do this ourselves with ease?
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kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
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Post by kc on Dec 9, 2015 18:31:20 GMT -5
I am late joining this debate and it seems to have morphed from a just a discussion about 'solely' Rubber Soul. Being a Brit and not being around when "Rubber Soul" was originally released as two different albums on either side of the Atlantic I am very familiar with the album as the Beatles (and George Martin) intended it to be. However taking the original US release as totally a standalone project I think it works rather well. Whether that was by design or complete fluke I don't know. But it holds together well with Dexter's track selection giving it a warm acoustic, folksy feeling about the album in general. Of course the omission of the brilliant "Nowhere Man" and impact on the other Beatles US albums brings something else into the debate. But I suppose we could also argue whether Paperback Writer and Rain should have been on there in place of other tracks. I've always felt "Run For Your Life" was a bit of a filler and not a show stopper to end the album on. But there it is winding up both versions of the album. I also finally got the "Hey Jude" album earlier this year and have grown rather fond of it. Even though it's basically a mish-mash of leftovers and each track follows chronologically. But I like every track on that album. Not only that it really looks like it fits in with the Beatles Album box set as well because of that cool cover. Much more so than the Past Masters CD. But it was never intended for the British market. (Despite it being very easily available like MMT). Are we too serious about the programming of 'albums' in this day and age where we can do this ourselves with ease? I wonder why the powers that be have never bothered to come up with a better front cover for the Past Masters set? A child could have done as good as what we have. You would have thought the 2009 remasters series was the perfect opportunity.
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Post by debjorgo on Dec 9, 2015 18:43:06 GMT -5
I wonder why the powers that be have never bothered to come up with a better front cover for the Past Masters set? A child could have done as good as what we have. You would have thought the 2009 remasters series was the perfect opportunity. They could have probably gotten that chimp that panther was talking about earlier to do it.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 9, 2015 18:56:35 GMT -5
Then something is not consistent. You said you want these releases the way The Beatles and George Martin intended them... and that is on various separate 45's, and EP's, in addition to the LPs. That's the way they were put out and intended. By the way, any serious vinyl collector with a good system who cares for his records will tell you that's a load of nonsense regarding "jumps, snaps, crackles, and pops". I grew up in the vinyl era, definitely not nonsense. It may well be nonsense to turn a blind eye to vinyls downside. I guess you grew up not caring for your records and playing them on mediocre equipment, then. I also grew up in the vinyl era, and I had no problems when I got older and stopped playing records on a toy phonograph. By the way, I see you have twice now avoided the basic point: that you claim it should be "as The Beatles and George Martin intended", and yet you really don't subscribe to that...
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Post by debjorgo on Dec 9, 2015 20:20:28 GMT -5
I know you can get an attachment to send a radio signal from your iPod to your car stereo. Can you get one to send a signal from you turn table to a transistor radio?
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