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Post by sallyg on Mar 19, 2016 4:16:56 GMT -5
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Mar 19, 2016 13:49:49 GMT -5
This article does not put Yoko's involvement in a good light. Sounds like she did not want to have to be in a situation of sharing ownership of the L&M Catalogue with Paul in 1985, and later made sure she (or her heirs-Sean?) would never have to co-own the catalogue with Paul (or his heirs) by ensuring John's share of the catalogue would remain with Sony. Why? Sounds to me like Yoko wanted to make sure Paul would never have an opportunity in his lifetime to ever alter the credits on the catalogue to read McCartney/Lennon on what he considered songs with primarily his contributions......
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Mar 19, 2016 14:20:20 GMT -5
This article does not put Yoko's involvement in a good light. Sounds like she did not want to have to be in a situation of sharing ownership of the L&M Catalogue with Paul in 1985, and later made sure she (or her heirs-Sean?) would never have to co-own the catalogue with Paul (or his heirs) by ensuring John's share of the catalogue would remain with Sony. Why? Sounds to me like Yoko wanted to make sure Paul would never have an opportunity in his lifetime to ever alter the credits on the catalogue to read McCartney/Lennon on what he considered songs with primarily his contributions...... Notice I said "reportedly" when mentioning the Yoko incident because it's in a book and as far as I know nowhere else. I believe I've heard that before, however.
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 19, 2016 14:59:15 GMT -5
I'd heard the story somewhere too. She was in tight with Michael at the time and apparently thought that she could manipulate him.
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Post by Panther on Mar 19, 2016 21:14:56 GMT -5
Paul thought he could manipulate him, too. They both underestimated the little guy from Gary, Indiana:
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 19, 2016 21:54:00 GMT -5
Good for Yoko if she blocked anything that would allow Paul to legally alter "Lennon/McCartney."
We know from the 2001 ROLLING STONE interview that Paul would like us to forget, he wanted some songs just "McCartney" let alone "McCartney/Lennon." Of course that wouldn't apply to songs that were John's only like "Julia" as Paul would insist joint credits and per his book Many Years From Now, there are no 100% Lennon Beatles songs but hoards of 100% McCartney Beatles songs.
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 19, 2016 22:00:22 GMT -5
Paul thought he could manipulate him, too. They both underestimated the little guy from Gary, Indiana: A quick aside, I too was born in Gary. Indiana and who knows, I may have crossed paths with the Jacksons in The Village, the popular shopping center in Gary back in the 1960's! When Paul got burned by MJ, he started doing that really condescending and frankly racist imitation of MJ, such that even Oprah, a huge Paul fan, was very uncomfortable with it!
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Post by Panther on Mar 20, 2016 5:58:09 GMT -5
A quick aside, I too was born in Gary. Indiana and who knows, I may have crossed paths with the Jacksons in The Village, the popular shopping center in Gary back in the 1960's! Wow, that's cool. It's basically a Chicago commuter town, isn't it? There were so many little Jacksons back then, you must have crossed paths with some. Hope you said 'hi' to Tito. When Paul got burned by MJ, he started doing that really condescending and frankly racist imitation of MJ, such that even Oprah, a huge Paul fan, was very uncomfortable with it! Yes, he did. He did the effeminate MJ voice on Letterman, too, and then tried to avoid offending his fans by following it up with some BS like, "He was an amazing talent, and we all miss him very much!". My ass.
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Post by Panther on Mar 20, 2016 6:16:38 GMT -5
Paul also did this unforgivable photo... on an album, no less!!
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 20, 2016 6:41:43 GMT -5
Paul also did this unforgivable photo... on an album, no less!! That's a bootleg, isn't it? Not Paul's doing. Whatever the way, just grow a thicker skin.
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Post by Panther on Mar 20, 2016 7:15:11 GMT -5
The same photo is in the 'McCartney II' sleeve -- prominently displayed. That's just terrible.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 20, 2016 7:27:31 GMT -5
The same photo is in the 'McCartney II' sleeve -- prominently displayed. That's just terrible. I know it was in the M2 gatefold... I purchased it the first day it got released in 1980. And back then people were not so uptight. The PC vibe today is just terrible. (By the way, look who dredged up the Paul photo again anyway -- You!) .
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 20, 2016 7:39:49 GMT -5
When Paul got burned by MJ, he started doing that really condescending and frankly racist imitation of MJ, such that even Oprah, a huge Paul fan, was very uncomfortable with it! Yes, he did. He did the effeminate MJ voice on Letterman, too, and then tried to avoid offending his fans by following it up with some BS like, "He was an amazing talent, and we all miss him very much!". My ass. You guys crack me up. Paul did an accurate voice impression of MJ, so he's a "racist", is he? Paul McCartney -- of all people!? That's just absurd to suggest. If there is one thing the four Beatles weren't/aren't, it's "racist". With all that money she's got, Oprah can afford to let an apt voice impression go. What's wrong with doing a vocal impression of how any individual truly sounds? Well, MJ did sound effeminate -- didn't he? Paul has said he actually thought a female fan had called his home the first time MJ called. Is he supposed to feel bad about that honest mistake? It's not his fault MJ sounded feminine. So what other type of "voice" sound would one do when imitating him? And where is the "racism" in it? If MJ sounds black, then that is how an impression of his voice would sound. If I decide to imitate Paul McCartney saying a phrase, and sound "Liverpudlian" with the voice intonations, am I suddenly "Anti-British" or an "Anglo-phobe" or something?
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 20, 2016 8:06:37 GMT -5
On Oprah, Paul says "I won't do the voice". Oprah says "Do the voice". It's at 7:45.
On SNL last week, Ariana Grande imitated some popular stars, including Whitney Houston. She was spot on. Incredible. It didn't occur to me that it was racist of her because Whitney is black. Now, she's Hispanic. Was she being racist when she imitated Britney Spears.
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Post by stavros on Mar 20, 2016 8:15:41 GMT -5
Hmmm...This correctness thing can be thrown around like confetti. Lest we forget.....Although these were very different times. And Michael Jackson was certainly not whiter than white either (even though he seemed to be getting closer to it as the days passed). He also had a very unhealthy interest in young boys as well. Here's Paul doing an impression of Michael about 1:20 into the video. I don't think it sounds racist at all. Jackson had a high pitched effeminate voice when he spoke. And he was a white guy, the same as Paul after all, wasn't he ? So how can it be racist?
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 20, 2016 8:21:23 GMT -5
I think with racism, you have to look at intent. Is the person being hateful? I think the first picture represents John, with his round glasses. He looks like John's White Album photo. The second picture is Ringo, with the ring of beads. The third is George, representing his eastern influence and interests. Paul is in the background. It's a shout-out to the Beatles. Nothing mean spirited at all. What are those, doves?
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Post by sallyg on Mar 20, 2016 11:44:17 GMT -5
I have never interpreted Paul's vocal imitation of Michael saying that he's going to purchase the Beatles' catalog and the photo in the McCartney II album as being racist. One thing Paul is not is a racist. This PC stuff has gotten crazy.
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 20, 2016 12:02:25 GMT -5
I have never interpreted Paul's vocal imitation of Michael saying that he's going to purchase the Beatles' catalog and the photo in the McCartney II album as being racist. One thing Paul is not is a racist. This PC stuff has gotten crazy. How's that? Where did you see anyone saying Paul's imitation was racist? Certainly not on the youtube Oprah page posted above. The only comments I see, say they love Paul's imitation of Michael. Funny, the only negative comments I see on it are on a Beatle's fan site (here).
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 20, 2016 13:27:46 GMT -5
Wow, that's cool. It's basically a Chicago commuter town, isn't it? There were so many little Jacksons back then, you must have crossed paths with some. Hope you said 'hi' to Tito. Yeah, Gary is very close to Chicago so you had that, the people commuting to Chicago, but it was also a huge manufacturing hub for steel, John Cougar Mellencamp refers to it in his song from the album Scarecrow called "Minutes To Memories" when he mentions his bus going by, "the steel mills near Gary." I have to think Katherine Jackson took her children to The Village Shopping Center because that's where the J.C. Penneys, Wards and Woolworth's department stores were! You are right Panther, after reading your use of "effeminate," I should not have said Paul was being racist but just as appallingly he was being homophobic and suggesting things about MJ. I just remember Oprah got really uncomfortable when Paul did that impersonation on her show when he was plugging the Flaming Pie album. Paul could have avoided all the hassle anyway had he just put his money up back then. Some say he was being honorable to include Yoko in this matter(and then blame her for the deal falling apart) but others say he was too cheap and conservative to put just his own money on the line. In other words, he didn't have faith in his "babies" and wanted to share the risk with Yoko!
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 20, 2016 13:48:17 GMT -5
Watching the Oprah clip, yeah she was watching Paul carefully to see how he would treat MJ. Paul's the one who baited her and the crowd, "Oh I won't do the voice" and the crowd wants Paul to and Oprah tells him to go ahead and do it. She was happy to move on from MJ. I am reminded how Paul took credit for seemingly all of Michael's career especially MJ's revolutionary videos! And what does Paul mean that Michael was "starting to get" popular with Off The Wall? Michael had been popular since his first hits with the Jackson 5! Christ, like The Beatles they had their own Saturday morning cartoon! I think Paul's imitations of MJ were disgraceful.
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 20, 2016 14:41:32 GMT -5
Watching the Oprah clip, yeah she was watching Paul carefully to see how he would treat MJ. Paul's the one who baited her and the crowd, "Oh I won't do the voice" and the crowd wants Paul to and Oprah tells him to go ahead and do it. She was happy to move on from MJ. I am reminded how Paul took credit for seemingly all of Michael's career especially MJ's revolutionary videos! And what does Paul mean that Michael was "starting to get" popular with Off The Wall? Michael had been popular since his first hits with the Jackson 5! Christ, like The Beatles they had their own Saturday morning cartoon! I think Paul's imitations of MJ were disgraceful. Sounds just like Michael, doesn't it. You two enlightened guys are the ones saying he sounds effeminate or gay. I would think Paul was thinking, as we were at the time, that he still sounded like a little boy. I remember at the time Billie Jean came out, everyone was saying that Michael had finally grown up. Then he started doing interviews and the thought was "I guess not". Nobody I know was saying he sounded gay or effeminate. The rumor was that he had taken hormones to keep puberty from deepening his voice.
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Post by stavros on Mar 20, 2016 14:53:31 GMT -5
I think the song writing credits could be reversed on Beatles records if Yoko ever gave the nod. It can't have anything to do with who owns the publishing rights.
Why?
Paul has already 'reversed' the credits on Wings Over America (to which I don't think John ever said a word about) and his live albums in the 21st century. Personally I find this petty and can't see Yoko ever saying 'yes'. So I would agree with her stance on the matter. But we should not forget her removal of McCartney's credit from Give Peace a Chance on the Lennon Anthology.
As for Michael Jackson. Well, if he was a homosexual, then I'm still not sure impersonating his squeaky voice could be described as homophobic.
If that's the case Will I.Am is being both racist (against the famous 'white' guy** Jacko) and homophobic as well. Check 1min in to this video.
Paul never seemed to have a problem with Brain Epstein did he?
So I think people are getting far too worked up and seeing and hearing things they want to to fire bullets at Paul. **A man with Alzheimer's.
** This is a joke for those unsure about it. Lighten up everyone
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 21, 2016 5:33:49 GMT -5
You are right Panther, after reading your use of "effeminate," I should not have said Paul was being racist but just as appallingly he was being homophobic and suggesting things about MJ. That is ridiculous. Throwing around the word "homophobic" so liberally (do you REALLY think Paul has "an irrational phobia/fear of gay people" -- even having been so close with Brian Epstein?) -- is as disgraceful as throwing around the word "racist" at the drop of a hat. Paul imitated Michael's voice the way he did because that's the way MJ's voice sounded - that's all. And I have heard Paul in interviews say that when MJ first called his house, Paul did think at first that it was a female fan who got his home phone number. So if anything, Paul was imitating an effeminate-sounding voice. But that is truly the way MJ's voice was, so that is the way such an impression would naturally sound. If someone did an impression of me they might use a Brooklen-ese type of 'accent'. I guess I should feel offended that they're suffering from some kind of irrational "NY-phobia"... So what? Who cares? If so, that's HER problem, not Paul's. And that's a huge problem plaguing us in America today-- PC run amuck, with people getting all uptight over nothing. As for Oprah's getting "really uncomfortable", where do you even get that from as seen in the TV show clip? Oprah doesn't appear uncomfortable to me. I think you often tend to see all sorts of hidden agendas and scandalous things going on, JSD. Come on, own up! Also -- check out the black man behind Paul in the audience who is smiling happily all the while Paul is discussing and imitating MJ. Doesn't seem to be any kind of discomfort from him.
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 21, 2016 5:58:38 GMT -5
I posted the interview with Oprah above. I did not see one hint of Oprah being uncomfortable with Paul when he was talking about Michael. She maybe moved on after Paul finished his story instead of asking him more about working with Michael. She was a friend of Michaels and probably would have been leery to bring his name up with anyone. He'd already been charged with the first account of child molestation by then.
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 21, 2016 11:48:59 GMT -5
Read Howard Sounes book FAB about how Paul talks about and treats gay folks in private and how he talks about and treats gay folks when the cameras are rolling or he and Nancy are on some red carpet with their Hollywood friends.
Paul's got a lot of old Jim McCartney in him!
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 21, 2016 15:32:43 GMT -5
Read Howard Sounes book FAB about how Paul talks about and treats gay folks in private and how he talks about and treats gay folks when the cameras are rolling or he and Nancy are on some red carpet with their Hollywood friends. Paul's got a lot of old Jim McCartney in him! Why don't you just concede that Paul simply did an impression of MJ that .... sounds kinda like MJ.
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 21, 2016 17:44:15 GMT -5
Read Howard Sounes book FAB about how Paul talks about and treats gay folks in private and how he talks about and treats gay folks when the cameras are rolling or he and Nancy are on some red carpet with their Hollywood friends. Paul's got a lot of old Jim McCartney in him! I'm surprised you put a lot of faith in Sounde's FAB book. He says a lot of negative things about Heather Mills McCartney too, even implying she is a gold-digger and a bitch. Sweet little Heather Mills McCartney!?! You know he is as full of it as a constipated horse.
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Post by sayne on Mar 21, 2016 18:09:36 GMT -5
What does it mean to sound "black"? I can understand sound Canadian or Irish or Mexican or French or Samoan or Russia, but "sound Black"? Does it mean sound like Colin Powell, President Obama, Oprah or Ben Carson? I know what it sounds like when someone is under-educated. I know what it sounds like if someone has a very good vocabulary. I know what it sounds like when an immigrant is learning to speak English. If one does believe that one can "sound Black," then I guess one can "sound White," too. I think you would lose in a game of "Black, not Black."
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 21, 2016 19:11:58 GMT -5
What does it mean to sound "black"? I can understand sound Canadian or Irish or Mexican or French or Samoan or Russia, but "sound Black"? Does it mean sound like Colin Powell, President Obama, Oprah or Ben Carson? I know what it sounds like when someone is under-educated. I know what it sounds like if someone has a very good vocabulary. I know what it sounds like when an immigrant is learning to speak English. If one does believe that one can "sound Black," then I guess one can "sound White," too. I think you would lose in a game of "Black, not Black." Sounds Canadian? You mean he speaks French? People in the Upper Western area of the US, North Dakota, Minnesota..., all speak with the stereotypical Canadian accent.
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nine
Very Clean
Posts: 840
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Post by nine on Mar 21, 2016 21:05:24 GMT -5
Not being Canadian or from the US, I can't tell the difference between the two accents.
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