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Post by stavros on Oct 5, 2017 17:19:28 GMT -5
I think the controversy that surrounds HDYS continues to this day and perhaps will continue as the Beatles story passes down the generations.
John did later explain it to Andy Peebles in one of his last interviews as using the resentment he had at the time to create a song. Paul also seemed to have put it all behind him long before John said this.
The comment about Ringo protesting comes from Barry Miles - Many Years from Now and quotes Felix Dennis
I will say that there is also a short excerpt on Youtube highlighting the song's creation. It's not pleasant viewing in my opinion. Whilst it does appear that Yoko was feeding John lyrics in the clip Ringo is nowhere to be seen. That of course doesn't mean he wasn't there and I seem to recall Ringo telling that same story somewhere. But I can't find it and Ringo did not play drums on the track.
If anything though it seems the relationship between John and George was never repaired to any great extent. Even if they did see Monty Python at the the Hollywood Bowl together in September of 1980.........
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Post by debjorgo on Oct 5, 2017 18:02:25 GMT -5
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Post by coachbk on Oct 5, 2017 22:23:08 GMT -5
Too Many People is a great song that rocks and has some nice variety to it. It is far superior to How Do You Sleep
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Post by debjorgo on Oct 5, 2017 23:49:53 GMT -5
What's the point then, if the writer's going to be coy about it and dig at his friend secretly without anyone else knowing it? John didn't play games like that - he came right out and said it. Paul should have known this when he tried to mess with John. Most of the great songs work on different levels. They mean different things to different people.
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Post by debjorgo on Oct 6, 2017 0:09:09 GMT -5
John basically says in the song he was in a band for eight years and half the songs weren't any good.
I seem to remember John coming out early saying that it was supposed to be funny. It shouldn't be taken so seriously.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Oct 6, 2017 8:55:24 GMT -5
John basically says in the song he was in a band for eight years and half the songs weren't any good. I seem to remember John coming out early saying that it was supposed to be funny. It shouldn't be taken so seriously. How many times did we see John have to apologize for comments or actions he did? Highlights; 1) Punching out Bob Wooler at Paul's 21st birthday party. 2) Jesus remark in 1966 3) Insulting Paul on HDYS. 4) The remark you refer to above. 5) For banging a girl in the next room the night Nixon was elected while Yoko and their friends all heard the passionate groans thru the walls. John tended to speak (or do) without thinking which often got him into situations where he later had to apologize for offending someone with his remarks. His upbringing had a lot to do with those chips that were always on his shoulder.
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Post by mikev on Oct 6, 2017 9:04:48 GMT -5
I The comment about Ringo protesting comes from Barry Miles - Many Years from Now and quotes Felix Dennis I will say that there is also a short excerpt on Youtube highlighting the song's creation. It's not pleasant viewing in my opinion. Whilst it does appear that Yoko was feeding John lyrics in the clip Ringo is nowhere to be seen. That of course doesn't mean he wasn't there and I seem to recall Ringo telling that same story somewhere. But I can't find it and Ringo did not play drums on the track. No obscene photos from the Lennons of a beetle (bleeping) another beetle? As I expected, no commentary from Ringo himself on this. So much for true authentication. Also looks like this guy has a typical problem with Yoko! Even if Yoko and John WERE laughing like school kids and exchanging funny and hurtful lyrics, I see nothing unnatural in this, given the level of crap they'd received from their "beast friends" during their courtship. (And, of course, given the attack on them on Paul's RAM album). Besides Miles-there are several references on line and I also believe it was even mentioned in the liner booklet on the Lennon Anthology. What might not be true is that his visit was intended to be a drum session
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Oct 6, 2017 11:18:52 GMT -5
Notice too that lowbasso continues to sidestep Paul's RAM photo of a beetle screwing a beetle, which is arguably worse than anything John wrote in HDYS. Also being avoided is the question asked twice already (this here makes #3): If it is provable that Ringo called Paul a "Meathead" and was in fact attacking McCartney with BACK OFF BOOGALOO (1972) .. would lowbasso then take back his "respect" for Ringo's allegedly standing up to John for HDYS in '71 ...? Fun, Fun, Fun! The RAM photo is not a song being played on the radio, so Lowbasso does not really care about that issue. That was not was his post was all about anyway, was it? Lowbasso does not think it is worse than what John wrote and SANG in HDYS. (Hint; This is called "an opinion.") Lowbasso thinks HDYS was THE WORST example of not one, but two Beatles insulting another in a song. (Hint; This is just another opinion). Therefore Lowbasso is one very sad snowflake that he has to hear it played on the radio all these years later. Lowbasso says you'll have to ask Ringo if he called Paul a "meathead" in his song. If he did, then Ringo was a very bad boy.. But Lowbasso STILL thinks HDYS is much worse. Lowbasso will not take back his "respect" for Ringo. He wasn't caustic in his insults like his mate John could be. Lowbasso trusts MikeV as a reliable source on this forum. MikeV isn't a snowflake.... So back to the point of Lowbasso's post; Lowbasso doesn't like HDYS because it directly insults Paul, and denegrates just about all his contributions to the Lennon/McCartney Catalogue. Lowbasso thinks John was a very bad boy to do this. Snowflakes don't like it when people are really mean. But we also think John was a genius musically and admire him greatly for his contributions to The Moptops. He is even this snowflake's favorite Moptop. But he could sure be a SOB when he wanted to be!! (That's John being mean..) Lowbasso, even though he is a Moptop snowflake, has simply posted his opinion on HDYS on this forum and why he isn't happy when he hears it on The Moptop Channel on Sirius XM and no matter what John's best friend Joe says, he isn't going to change his mind about it. Have I just about covered it all now Joe? Fun, Fun, Fun!
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Post by stavros on Oct 6, 2017 17:13:03 GMT -5
No obscene photos from the Lennons of a beetle (bleeping) another beetle? As I expected, no commentary from Ringo himself on this. So much for true authentication. Also looks like this guy has a typical problem with Yoko! Even if Yoko and John WERE laughing like school kids and exchanging funny and hurtful lyrics, I see nothing unnatural in this, given the level of crap they'd received from their "beast friends" during their courtship. (And, of course, given the attack on them on Paul's RAM album). I'm fine with your opinion of HDYS Joe. And I hope you don't mind sidetracking for a moment. Historically the whole circus around the song is an interesting, if uncomfortable, point in Beatles history. There was a lot of bad blood flowing at that time. John used it to inspire a particularly biting and spiteful song and then possibly used it as inspiration for a sequel about his total loss of trust in Allan Klein. Klein's appointment was just one of the many schisms in that late Beatles period and the cracks began to grow. But maybe with "Steel & Glass" he was sending a much more concealed message as well? Maybe even saying to Paul "Hey, you were right pal!." Why do I say that? Well John usually wore his heart on his sleeve, said what he thought at the time and would often backtrack when he thought things over. I really think this interview sums up how by 1973 John felt about the end of the Beatles (which I had never seen before but found while looking for Ringo's comments!) Watch his body language and very guarded statements in this interview about Klein. I am certain John was clever enough to realize that he couldn't say exactly how he felt about the deal with Klein due to the legal situation. But he sums up things very thoughtfully and makes some very pertinent points about how the Beatles were first given a recording contract when they were young and naive and how things were still being unravelled years after they'd broken up. Oh! and maybe Ringo never said a word about "How Do You Sleep" I don't know for certain. I stopped looking and got sidetracked. Sorry about that. But I hope you find the interview interesting.
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 6, 2017 17:53:57 GMT -5
I wish the Beatles, in particular John and Paul, had not carried out their fighting in songs so in that respect, I am with lowbasso.
On the other hand, it in fact happened and I like "How Do You Sleep" and "Too Many People" even though I disagree with certain parts of lyrics from both songs but I think both are very passionate and sung with conviction. That's all you can ask from an artist and his music. That the Beatles were just human and could fight among themselves like the rest of do as evidenced in these songs is a good point JoeK.
We will have to agree to disagree.
What is really interesting to me is how intense John's and Paul's fighting was, it was more like lovers than just great friends or even brothers. Add to that BOTH men attempted to replace the other musically with their respective spouses!! That really makes me think that John and Paul had an emotional relationship greater than best friends or even brothers. It almost certainly was unconsummated physically but this was a lifelong emotional love affair between the two men.
Nothing wrong with that but I am sorry it ended the way it ended!
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Oct 6, 2017 19:36:50 GMT -5
Ok, kidding (and insults) aside Joe.
The song doesn't bother you but it bothers me. I don't give a shit about all the other so-called insults in songs and pictures they hurled at each other in those days. I wasn't commenting on those.
I expressed my opinion on HDYS being played on the radio. Its a goddamn opinion. I am not looking for someone to change my mind. You won't.
You like it? Great. Enjoy.
End of discussion.
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Post by mikev on Oct 6, 2017 22:18:41 GMT -5
Well I'm glad no one thinks I'm a snowflake....but I did manage to look at the Anthology (Lennon) booklet and though the song is mentioned there is no Ringo reference...but I did read it somewhere at that time...so it wasn't necessarily an "internet" thing. Chip Madinger is a regular on Hoffman. I may seek him out and ask.
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Post by debjorgo on Oct 6, 2017 22:30:10 GMT -5
Put me down as a snowflake. I can't find any proof on the web, but I remember it being expressed as a unique, one of a kind individual who makes up his own mind about things. Hillary used it at one point, I'd bet at the 12th annual UNICEF Snowflake Ball. Soon after, it was ran into the ground by the internet trolls who changed the meaning of it. That's what I remember, but no wikiproof.
Snowflakes, we can be cold when we want. Put us together, you get a snowball. Get more of us together you get a fort. I'll be in that group!
I'm not calling anyone who uses the term a troll, I'm just saying, to my recollection, that's how the meaning got shifted.
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 7, 2017 11:43:38 GMT -5
Can we shake hands or better yet join hands or lock arms and stand or kneel in silent protest in relation to our differences on John/Paul or whatever Fab issue we have! Some can stand, some can kneel, but our arms remain locked showing the Rolling Stone and Who fans that we Beatles fans are always unified! JoeK, you must agree that "Little Child," much like "Your Sixteen," is entirely inappropriate in 2017 as a nod to child seduction and possibly molestation? "Little Child" should be banned if any Beatles song should. Wow, asking a little child to come seductively dance for an adult is creepy! The song lyrics go further too!
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Post by debjorgo on Oct 7, 2017 12:35:26 GMT -5
...The song lyrics go further too! Are you talking about where he sings " Baby take a chance with me"?
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 7, 2017 12:59:32 GMT -5
...The song lyrics go further too! Are you talking about where he sings " Baby take a chance with me"? Yes, that's one example where sexual activity with a child is solicited! Little child, little child Little child, won't you dance with me?[Euphemism for sex, dancing.] I'm so sad and lonely Baby take a chance with me{clear child solicitation and seduction] Little child, little child Little child, won't you dance with me? I'm so sad and lonely Baby take a chance with me If you want someone To make you feel so fine{Can it get any more explicit, John and Paul want to sexually turn on a "little child."] Then we'll have some fun{More sex] When you're mine, all mine[Yuck!] So come, come on, come on[telling the child to orgasm, gross!] Little child, little child Little child, won't you dance with me? I'm so sad and lonely Baby take a chance with me When you're by my side You're the only one Don't you run and hide[this is disturbing, the child knows this is wrong and is running and trying to hide but is being stalked!] Just come on, come on So come on, come on, come on Little child, little child Little child, won't you dance with me? I'm so sad and lonely Baby take a chance with me Baby take a chance with me Baby take a chance with me This song needs to be retired as it was naughty in 1963 and much more today!
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Post by joeyself on Oct 8, 2017 21:28:36 GMT -5
Well I'm glad no one thinks I'm a snowflake....but I did manage to look at the Anthology (Lennon) booklet and though the song is mentioned there is no Ringo reference...but I did read it somewhere at that time...so it wasn't necessarily an "internet" thing. Chip Madinger is a regular on Hoffman. I may seek him out and ask. Asking Chip would be a good thing, but I think unnecessary if you read this: www.beatlesbible.com/people/john-lennon/songs/how-do-you-sleep/2/JcS
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Post by mikev on Oct 9, 2017 6:44:58 GMT -5
Well I'm glad no one thinks I'm a snowflake....but I did manage to look at the Anthology (Lennon) booklet and though the song is mentioned there is no Ringo reference...but I did read it somewhere at that time...so it wasn't necessarily an "internet" thing. Chip Madinger is a regular on Hoffman. I may seek him out and ask. Asking Chip would be a good thing, but I think unnecessary if you read this: www.beatlesbible.com/people/john-lennon/songs/how-do-you-sleep/2/JcS That was one of my more recent resources...but I don't think Joe accepts "internet" sources, where we know Chip has done a ton of research on Lennon's recording history.
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Post by joeyself on Oct 9, 2017 8:23:01 GMT -5
That was one of my more recent resources...but I don't think Joe accepts "internet" sources, where we know Chip has done a ton of research on Lennon's recording history. Oh, I trying to satisfy your search; not your problem if someone doesn't accept reputable sites. The excerpt is from MANY YEARS FROM NOW. JcS
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Post by mikev on Oct 9, 2017 9:08:01 GMT -5
That was one of my more recent resources...but I don't think Joe accepts "internet" sources, where we know Chip has done a ton of research on Lennon's recording history. Oh, I trying to satisfy your search; not your problem if someone doesn't accept reputable sites. The excerpt is from MANY YEARS FROM NOW. JcS Even though I've only read excerpts from the book-it is possible that is what I recall. I think there is also a part in the book on how horrific the Clapton Boyd Wedding Party threetle reunion was, but that is a story for another thread...
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Post by joeyself on Oct 9, 2017 13:50:02 GMT -5
Oh, I trying to satisfy your search; not your problem if someone doesn't accept reputable sites. The excerpt is from MANY YEARS FROM NOW. JcS Even though I've only read excerpts from the book-it is possible that is what I recall. I think there is also a part in the book on how horrific the Clapton Boyd Wedding Party threetle reunion was, but that is a story for another thread... It is also in John Blaney's LISTEN TO THIS BOOK. The page is on Google Books. Of course, that means it is also on-line... books.google.com/books?id=ZuCZR7MiDA0C&q=how+do+you+sleep#v=snippet&q=how%20do%20you%20sleep&f=falseI've not been able to find a refutation by Starr. Perhaps he was never asked the question. And it could be there is one source that is being repeated, and that one could be wrong. But it's not some Internet rumor. JcS
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 10, 2017 11:34:18 GMT -5
At 8:12 a.m. this morning DJ Chris Carter played "How Do You Sleep?" and said it was requested by "Beatle Larry."
He also played "Yesterday" which, Carter pointed out, is referenced HDYS.
That might be my first time hearing it there but I am not sure after all of our firefights over it!
Mark that off. I still haven't heard "Mumbo" yet, damn-it!
P.S. I know it is not, but the drumming on "How Do You Sleep?" sure sounds like Ringo's! It sounds right from the POB Sessions.
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Post by joeyself on Oct 14, 2017 13:52:23 GMT -5
Well I'm glad no one thinks I'm a snowflake....but I did manage to look at the Anthology (Lennon) booklet and though the song is mentioned there is no Ringo reference...but I did read it somewhere at that time...so it wasn't necessarily an "internet" thing. Chip Madinger is a regular on Hoffman. I may seek him out and ask. Did you think to ask Chip? I forgot he and I are friends on Facebook--want me to ask him? JcS
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Post by mikev on Oct 16, 2017 10:43:58 GMT -5
Well I'm glad no one thinks I'm a snowflake....but I did manage to look at the Anthology (Lennon) booklet and though the song is mentioned there is no Ringo reference...but I did read it somewhere at that time...so it wasn't necessarily an "internet" thing. Chip Madinger is a regular on Hoffman. I may seek him out and ask. Did you think to ask Chip? I forgot he and I are friends on Facebook--want me to ask him? JcS sure, I haven't been back on Hoffman for a few days.
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Post by joeyself on Oct 20, 2017 21:16:22 GMT -5
I sent Chip a private message on Facebook: JS: True or false: Ringo was in the studio during the recording of "How Do You Sleep" and told John "That's enough." CM: No, Ringo was not present during the session for HDYS. The "that's enough" story was told by Felix Dennis of Oz Magazine, and if true, would have taken place at the first session for 'God Save Oz' (which Ringo did play on). I didn't even think to look at Chip's site lennonology.com/--it was just so easy to ask him. And I view Chip as an authority on this subject, so I'm satisfied Ringo didn't say that. JcS
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Post by mikev on Oct 22, 2017 21:13:58 GMT -5
I sent Chip a private message on Facebook: JS: True or false: Ringo was in the studio during the recording of "How Do You Sleep" and told John "That's enough." CM: No, Ringo was not present during the session for HDYS. The "that's enough" story was told by Felix Dennis of Oz Magazine, and if true, would have taken place at the first session for 'God Save Oz' (which Ringo did play on). I didn't even think to look at Chip's site www.lennonology.com--it was just so easy to ask him. And I view Chip as an authority on this subject, so I'm satisfied Ringo didn't say that. JcS Interesting...and I agree-definitely an authority on the subject. Thanks for checking!
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markc
Very Clean
Posts: 447
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Post by markc on Nov 22, 2017 9:09:49 GMT -5
Two observations from recent listening to the Beatles channel or Sirius XM:
A Dose of Rock N Roll is a great song! I've heard it three times in the last week.
The BBC sessions are a treasure trove and show the Beatles as a great live band. I wonder if there are any more songs left unissued.
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Post by joeyself on Nov 22, 2017 17:20:33 GMT -5
Two observations from recent listening to the Beatles channel or Sirius XM: A Dose of Rock N Roll is a great song! I've heard it three times in the last week. The BBC sessions are a treasure trove and show the Beatles as a great live band. I wonder if there are any more songs left unissued. Songs? Not to my knowledge. Performances? I have the 9 CD box set that has a lot that haven't come out yet. My recollection, though, is there isn't a lot of variation in the performances. There were only so many ways they could play those early songs. JcS
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 23, 2017 2:54:09 GMT -5
Two observations from recent listening to the Beatles channel or Sirius XM: A Dose of Rock N Roll is a great song! I've heard it three times in the last week. The BBC sessions are a treasure trove and show the Beatles as a great live band. I wonder if there are any more songs left unissued. I have said from Day 1 of The Beatles Channel that Ringo is the biggest benefactor thus far from that station as his Solo stuff is getting played a lot, much of it for the first time. And it has been a happy home for Give More Love, Ringo's smash hit new album!
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Post by coachbk on Nov 25, 2017 21:41:19 GMT -5
Hey JSD,
Thought of you when I heard that one of Mick Fleetwood's "My Fab Four" songs was "Maxwell's Silver Hammer"!
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