|
Post by OldFred on Sept 17, 2008 19:04:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Sept 17, 2008 22:57:36 GMT -5
Yikes! This is a pretty serious story though. I suspect that Paul will be safe when actually in Israel as the security there will be second to none. Hell, the problem is when he is back in London, what with all the homegrown Islamic terrorists right there. The majority of the muslim population in Britain support suicide bombings as being justified. Steve M. links us to the Jay Leno joke on his News Site and it naturally involves Heather. Leno borrowed the punchline right out of the late Sam Kinison's playbook. I have been very stressed out by this news since it broke. At least two so-called "mainstream" Palestinian groups have demanded Paul not play Israel in rather threatening tones(see Steve's News Site). Paul should not play "Live and Let Die" in Israel for several reasons, the lyrics and his historic use of exploding fireworks being two such reasons. Let's keep our fingers crossed. I found it curiously odd that just as Paul is getting ready to play Israel with the Palestinian protests and all, Yoko Ono gives her typically garbled and stilted "Sept. 11th" message where she praises some Western girl who was protesting against Israel on the Gaza Strip and was stupid enough not to move out of the way of an armored bulldozer with very limited vision for the driver and it ran over her. Yoko's pro-Palestinian statement comes right as this peace-loving bunch want to kill Macca. Of course, Yoko basically compares the terrorist attacks on 9/11 to the WWII bombings of Japan by the Allies in a war Japan started(she expressly dismisses Pearl Harbor saying that that happened on a far away island). Anyway, I sure hope Paul is safe when in Israel and elsewhere. Maybe he should play "Freedom" and Bob Dylan's rocking salute to Israel, "Neighborhood Bully," from 1983's Infidels album.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Marinucci on Sept 18, 2008 0:10:03 GMT -5
I borrowed the link for the site. That cartoon made me cringe. Yow.
|
|
|
Post by OldFred on Sept 18, 2008 5:42:36 GMT -5
The cartoon changed for another one. To access the Paul cartoon, on the same page use the function to pull up the date for the cartoon, which is September 17, 2008. www.nypost.com/delonas/delonas.htm
|
|
|
Post by Steve Marinucci on Sept 18, 2008 7:15:58 GMT -5
The cartoon changed for another one. To access the Paul cartoon, on the same page use the function to pull up the date for the cartoon, which is September 17, 2008. www.nypost.com/delonas/delonas.htmThanks, Fred. I fixed the link on the site.
|
|
|
Post by OldFred on Sept 18, 2008 8:05:56 GMT -5
Anyway, I sure hope Paul is safe when in Israel and elsewhere. Maybe he should play "Freedom" and Bob Dylan's rocking salute to Israel, "Neighborhood Bully," from 1983's Infidels album. I'm all for Paul singing 'Freedom', it brings a whole new meaning to the song. The only way to fight a bully is face them down, not back off which only empowers them.
|
|
|
Post by Beatle Bob on Sept 18, 2008 9:23:35 GMT -5
I actually like the cartoon. It's really on target about Heather. Most political cartoons or commentary cartoon don't necessarily make you laugh put they put a point across. This does it perfectly. Regards, Beatle Bob
|
|
|
Post by Steve Marinucci on Sept 18, 2008 10:12:19 GMT -5
I actually like the cartoon. It's really on target about Heather. Most political cartoons or commentary cartoon don't necessarily make you laugh put they put a point across. This does it perfectly. Regards, Beatle Bob I laughed more at Leno's comment. Maybe the cartoon was a bit too close to reality.
|
|
|
Post by Beatle Bob on Sept 18, 2008 10:58:03 GMT -5
I actually like the cartoon. It's really on target about Heather. Most political cartoons or commentary cartoon don't necessarily make you laugh put they put a point across. This does it perfectly. Regards, Beatle Bob I laughed more at Leno's comment. Maybe the cartoon was a bit too close to reality. So did I. Regards, Beatle Bob
|
|
|
Post by ReturnToPepperland on Sept 18, 2008 17:04:13 GMT -5
I found it curiously odd that just as Paul is getting ready to play Israel with the Palestinian protests and all, Yoko Ono gives her typically garbled and stilted "Sept. 11th" message where she praises some Western girl who was protesting against Israel on the Gaza Strip and was stupid enough not to move out of the way of an armored bulldozer with very limited vision for the driver and it ran over her. Yoko's pro-Palestinian statement comes right as this peace-loving bunch want to kill Macca. Of course, Yoko basically compares the terrorist attacks on 9/11 to the WWII bombings of Japan by the Allies in a war Japan started(she expressly dismisses Pearl Harbor saying that that happened on a far away island). That is bizzare timing to show pro-Palestine sentiment for Yoko. I don't think it was by accident.
|
|
|
Post by sexysadie on Sept 19, 2008 5:25:00 GMT -5
This story is all over the place. There were threats, the kids are worried sick and want him to cancel. Then there was no credible evidence of any threats--but Paul will be under the guard of the Israeli authorities/army/secret service, or whatever. It's like real life is imitating art, if one considers "Help!" to be art. Tanks and armed guards on the Salisbury Plain.
Whatever is going on, Paul says the show will go on, although it would be inspiring to see a stronger statement than, "I have friends who support Israel." Well, duh. He married into one Jewish family and is reportedly about to marry into another. Of course he has "friends" who support Israel--one of whom is unconcerned enough about his safety to have encouraged the trip. So if the kids are truly upset and pushing him not to go, they've lost out to the girlfriend. Again.
While he's to be commended for giving fans in that part of the world a chance to see him perform (although it would have been even more commendable to pare down his prices so that people could actually afford tickets), a rousing chorus of AYNIL or "Give Peace A Chance" isn't going to turn around centuries of hate in the Middle East. It's just plain silly for him to be saying his "message of peace and love" can influence the audience. It's two hours of entertainment, and that's all it is. Paul doesn't "do" politics, at least not well, and there's no better proof of that than "Freedom." There was only one politically savvy, and politically courageous, Beatle. And, to society's extreme misfortune, he's no longer with us.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Marinucci on Sept 19, 2008 8:09:39 GMT -5
This story is all over the place. There were threats, the kids are worried sick and want him to cancel. Then there was no credible evidence of any threats--but Paul will be under the guard of the Israeli authorities/army/secret service, or whatever. It's like real life is imitating art, if one considers "Help!" to be art. Tanks and armed guards on the Salisbury Plain. Whatever is going on, Paul says the show will go on, although it would be inspiring to see a stronger statement than, "I have friends who support Israel." Well, duh. He married into one Jewish family and is reportedly about to marry into another. Of course he has "friends" who support Israel--one of whom is unconcerned enough about his safety to have encouraged the trip. So if the kids are truly upset and pushing him not to go, they've lost out to the girlfriend. Again. While he's to be commended for giving fans in that part of the world a chance to see him perform (although it would have been even more commendable to pare down his prices so that people could actually afford tickets), a rousing chorus of AYNIL or "Give Peace A Chance" isn't going to turn around centuries of hate in the Middle East. It's just plain silly for him to be saying his "message of peace and love" can influence the audience. It's two hours of entertainment, and that's all it is. Paul doesn't "do" politics, at least not well, and there's no better proof of that than "Freedom." There was only one politically savvy, and politically courageous, Beatle. And, to society's extreme misfortune, he's no longer with us. +1
|
|
|
Post by superhans on Sept 19, 2008 8:16:55 GMT -5
The majority of the muslim population in Britain support suicide bombings as being justified. Really?! Do you have any evidence for this?
|
|
|
Post by melody on Sept 19, 2008 8:52:00 GMT -5
Nah.. John didn't do politics well either. John mattered first and foremost because of the music he made with the Beatles, and perhaps his first apolitical solo record, and I miss him for that reason. Soceity misses him for that reason. His politics were naive and clownish at best and hardly courageous. Jumping on the anti-Vietnam war movement bandwagon, sitting in bed's spouting peace slogans in Amersterdam or Montreal (hardly dangerous war zones) and his half-hearted faux radicalism of STINYC was more embarassing than politically savvy. The thrown-together on the spot 'Give Peace a Chance' is hardly better than "Freedom' and 'Power to the People" is the worst of the lot, IMO. Lennon was better off and more interesting musically when he writing things like Walrus, Hey Bulldog, or I'm a Loser than when he started to take himself too seriously.
|
|
|
Post by richforman on Sept 19, 2008 10:22:34 GMT -5
> Of course he has "friends" who support Israel--one of whom is unconcerned enough about > his safety to have encouraged the trip. So if the kids are truly upset and pushing him not to > go, they've lost out to the girlfriend. Again.
(First of all, you made up the premise about his kids not wanting to do the concert, out of whole cloth, right? Covered yourself by adding "if" but didn't mention that no one has said anything like that.) But this just sounds like more knee-jerk anti-Paulism (and anti-Nancyism) at work here. You would find it more commendable or better somehow if he cowered in fear at these threats and in response canceled the performance? (Or if his girfriend had encouraged him to take this course rather than ignore/defy the terrorists posing the threats?) That's incredible to me.
Also everything Paul has said about this and his other performances, seems to indicate to me that he totally realizes and agrees with what you're saying, which is that is nothing more than entertainment, his statements about this and all his shows are usually to the effect, we're gonna rock the house, have a good time, put on a good show for the people. He hasn't made *any* statements that indicate remotely that he thinks that putting on this performance will "going to turn around centuries of hate in the Middle East." Of course, some of us believe that music can subtly change the world, it certainly can't hurt to bring together a few hundred thousand people to be singing together about love and peace for a couple hours, but if anything Paul always, consistently, plays down any loftier claim for his concerts. He doesn't try to come off as political and is not doing so in this case.
richforman
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Sept 19, 2008 11:59:44 GMT -5
The majority of the muslim population in Britain support suicide bombings as being justified. Really?! Do you have any evidence for this? I have read that but I can't find the exact article to cite here. The issue addressed was support of suicide bombings to defend Islam from perceived smears or attacks; it was not about the July 7 London bombings Here is an article link with a chart from a Pew survey of muslims finding that 30% of British muslims either think suicide bombings to defend Islam is either sometimes justified, rarely justified or don't know (which seems like a "maybe" response to a question where the answer "never justified" seems like a no brainer): michellemalkin.com/2006/10/15/19-million-muslims-for-jihadand-thats-just-in-indonesia/Hell, as Mark Steyn writes: "36 percent of Muslims between the ages of 16 and 24 believe that those who convert to another religion should be punished by death. That’s not 36 percent of young Muslims in Waziristan or Yemen or Sudan, but 36 percent of young Muslims in the United Kingdom." www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2008&month=08The context of my remark was that if this Israel concert gets Paul McCartney killed as his kids are reportedly worried about, it would more likely occur in Great Britain or Europe than in Israel. 30% of British Muslims who either support suicide bombings or can't decide if it is clearly wrong is not an insubstantial percentage. And we have time and time again seen the Palestinian issue corrupted and used by Islamist extremists to support violence elsewhere. Paul McCartney is a huge symbol of Western culture. This concert appearance by Paul could very well pose a new security risk for him for years to come, a threat from zealots that have a very long memory. I am proud that Paul is playing Israel, the only true democracy in that region, and refusing to be bullied by thugs and terrorists. Paul cannot stop wars but he can give a large group of people happiness for two hours and that is not a bad thing.
|
|
|
Post by sallyg on Sept 19, 2008 16:25:36 GMT -5
I am proud that Paul is playing Israel, the only true democracy in that region, and refusing to be bullied by thugs and terrorists. Paul cannot stop wars but he can give a large group of people happiness for two hours and that is not a bad thing.
I agree with you JSD. If reports about the death threats by some Muslim extremists are true, this whole thing is rediculous because Paul is just an entertainer who has no political power to do anything. There's nothing wrong with him giving a concert in Israel or wherever he wants.
|
|
|
Post by stokesyla on Sept 19, 2008 18:29:20 GMT -5
"The majority of the muslim population in Britain support suicide bombings as being justified."
I take exception to this statement, especially from someone who lives in Indiana and not Britain - where's your evidence?
|
|
|
Post by stokesyla on Sept 19, 2008 18:31:47 GMT -5
Further to that you are using a poll which may or may not be accurate and it comes up with 36% - I thought that was only a majority when George Bush got elected? Over 50% would be a majority to the rest of us by the way.
|
|
|
Post by sexysadie on Sept 21, 2008 4:59:49 GMT -5
I think he has made some pretty grandiose claims, rich. "McCartney Hopes Tel Aviv Gig Will Spread Message of Peace." news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080919/wl_uk_afp/entertainmentbritainisraelmusicmccartney_080919185248 It's all well and good to wax poetic about the power of music to uplift people--to temporarily make them feel good about themselves, maybe even about the world situation. It's fine for Paul to repeat the assertion that the Beatles were all about peace and love, and to say that remains his message to this day. But to talk about his concert as a catalyst for change in that region is either hopelessly naive or shockingly egotistical. Gosh, if only one of the legions of Middle East negotiators down through the years had realized that All You Need Is Paul for peace to reign supreme throughout the land. His remarks come across as so politically clueless that he looks more like an idiot than an "old hippie," as he is occasionally described. Not that there isn't precedent for his making politically braindead observations. He once told a dinner companion that "eating meat is like what Hitler did to the fucking Jews." So the next time you see your sweet old mum tucking into a filet mignon, consider all the ways she is like Adolf Hitler. (Oddly enough, Hitler consistently extolled the virtues of vegetarianism, and sporadically practiced it himself throughout his lifetime.) If Nancy was so eager to enjoy a lovely fall vacation in Israel to connect with her Jewish roots, she should have called her travel agent and left Paul out of it. But then they have been together almost constantly since Quebec and the big road trip. It's now obvious that she was nothing but a dilettante in her father's company, and that she spends precious little time with her son. Nor is she fulfilling her responsibilities as a member of the MTA board, which is currently in deep doo-doo over budgetary shortfalls and under immense pressure to keep New Yorkers on the move without more fare increases. (Of course, the only reason she got the appointment in the first place is because she and her husband gave gobs of money to the Republican Party.) Latest pictures at Mary's photography exhibit show her still trailing along behind Paul at a respectful distance, and refusing to pose with him. I've always had my reasons for not trusting her motives, and the more I see of her and her behavior the less I like her. A friend of mine--who, btw, happens to be both Jewish AND insightful--after reading the initial reports of Nancy being very rich, very pampered, and very entitled, dubbed her "The Princess," and Nancy has done nothing in the intervening months to suggest the title is undeserved. I don't need an excuse to "bash" her, rich. My brain is fully engaged. Some people think "Imagine" is saccharine and formulaic, but it's positively teeming with deep and thought-provoking ideas compared to "Freedom," which sounds like something a high-school gym teacher might have composed for her cheerleading squad. "Give Peace A Chance" is even more superficial, but it's ridiculous to use that song as evidence that John was politically irrelevant. If he was so harmless, why did Nixon and the US Government expend so much time and effort trying to deny him permanent residency in the country? I realize Nixon was paranoid, but he had good reason to fear John. John had the personality of a leader, and the ability to inspire and motivate--people would have followed him into battle. Take a look at video footage of the size and emotion of the crowd outside the Dakota after he was murdered if you don't believe me. Paul has some wonderful talents and qualities, but people wouldn't follow him around a corner--unless it was to get an autograph. And that's because he says wussy things like "I have friends who support Israel" instead of taking a stand with an " I support Israel." I simply can't imagine John waffling like that.
|
|
|
Post by jimc on Sept 21, 2008 8:50:42 GMT -5
Nah.. John didn't do politics well either. John mattered first and foremost because of the music he made with the Beatles, and perhaps his first apolitical solo record, and I miss him for that reason. Soceity misses him for that reason. His politics were naive and clownish at best and hardly courageous. Jumping on the anti-Vietnam war movement bandwagon, sitting in bed's spouting peace slogans in Amersterdam or Montreal (hardly dangerous war zones) and his half-hearted faux radicalism of STINYC was more embarassing than politically savvy. The thrown-together on the spot 'Give Peace a Chance' is hardly better than "Freedom' and 'Power to the People" is the worst of the lot, IMO. Lennon was better off and more interesting musically when he writing things like Walrus, Hey Bulldog, or I'm a Loser than when he started to take himself too seriously. John (and the others) started speaking out against the Vietnam War as far back as 1966. He finally put it in people's faces in 1969. And good for him. I'm not sure if you're just saying that his music suffered because of his political outbursts (which is the truth), or if you're simply disagreeing with his politics. He was right about Vietnam. I imagine John thinking, I played in front of thousands of these kids. They screamed, threw jelly babies, made us rich. Then there's this ridiculous war going on. What we've been doing is frivolous in the face of this madness. I'm going to speak out about it. Music be damned. As far as the discussion about the Middle East, it's important to remember that Israel isn't blameless in all this. And to go back even further, the post-WWII agreement to set up (or reconstitute) this country was a huge mistake. Never should have happened. I'm sure there were other options. What was sown in 1945 has turned into a bloody harvest. And we've been paying the price, literally, ever since.
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Sept 21, 2008 11:04:35 GMT -5
. . . 36% - I thought that was only a majority when George Bush got elected? Right on!
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Sept 21, 2008 11:16:27 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with him giving a concert in Israel or wherever he wants. Well, I disagree to a certain point. His playing there for the anniversary of the founding of Israel as a nation IS an endorsement - for good or for bad. I'm not going to get into that argument, nor am I saying he should NOT play. And, I certainly am not saying anyone should use violence to prevent him or anyone from playing. But, would we not have given him props for NOT playing in South Africa when it was under an apartheid regime, and given him grief for saying, "I'll play South Africa if I want, man." What I am saying is that yes he as the right to play wherever he wants and people have the right to protest if he does. That's legitimate. Their views SHOULD be heard. However, threatening someone's life for playing is not legitimate. Unless, of course, they happen to play "Ebony and Ivory". ;D
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Sept 21, 2008 13:49:23 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with him giving a concert in Israel or wherever he wants. Well, I disagree to a certain point. His playing there for the anniversary of the founding of Israel as a nation IS an endorsement - for good or for bad. That is apparently a false assumption or understanding of Macca's concert. This is a blurb from an interview of Paul that Steve ran yesterday on his News Site: "Since announcing his visit to Israel the world’s media has gone into over-drive, as some political activists have been quick to use this concert to highlight their own plights. Many stories have inaccurately reported that Paul’s concert is part of the Jewish state’s 60th anniversary celebrations. Paul’s ‘Friendship First’ concert is in fact a stand-alone concert in a series of special one off shows he has performed this year. This show specifically is about music and promoting friendship. Does Paul think his concert can spread a positive message across a country that has been affected by years of conflict?"As such, the terror threats are all the more appalling. I still applaud Paul for refusing to cave into terror threats and play there anyway. It should be a memorable night for the audience unless "Ebony and Ivory" is played.
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Sept 21, 2008 15:30:31 GMT -5
That is apparently a false assumption or understanding of Macca's concert. I won't argue that point. I'll give the benefit of the doubt that Paul was always planning on playing there and that it was merely a coincidence that it was during the 60th anniversary of the founding of the Israeli state. Just like Paul playing in Quebec when that city was celebrating its 400th anniversary or playing with Billy Joel on what was supposed to be the last concert at Shea. All just dumb luck that his appearances just happened to be at a time that people were celebrating something. He's starting to look like Selig. Now, if he shows up in December to do a one-off in New Hampshire just as that state celebrates the founding of the first credit union THEN I'll be suspicious.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Sept 21, 2008 19:56:10 GMT -5
That is apparently a false assumption or understanding of Macca's concert. I won't argue that point. I'll give the benefit of the doubt that Paul was always planning on playing there and that it was merely a coincidence that it was during the 60th anniversary of the founding of the Israeli state. Just like Paul playing in Quebec when that city was celebrating its 400th anniversary or playing with Billy Joel on what was supposed to be the last concert at Shea. All just dumb luck that his appearances just happened to be at a time that people were celebrating something. He's starting to look like Selig. Now, if he shows up in December to do a one-off in New Hampshire just as that state celebrates the founding of the first credit union THEN I'll be suspicious. So Paul is lying, this isn't a "stand-alone concert" in a place where he was previously banned? I'd like to think that he wants to bring two hours or so of happiness to people he has never played to before. Of course, that feel-good atmosphere is wiped out with the playing of "Ebony and Ivory."
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Sept 21, 2008 22:44:04 GMT -5
. . . (Oddly enough, Hitler consistently extolled the virtues of vegetarianism, and sporadically practiced it himself throughout his lifetime.) . . . . . . And, what's your point here?
|
|
|
Post by richforman on Sept 22, 2008 9:42:56 GMT -5
Sadie's point is she doesn't like McCartney.
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Sept 22, 2008 17:02:50 GMT -5
Sadie's point is she doesn't like McCartney. Duck, incoming!
|
|
JMG
Very Clean
Posts: 412
|
Post by JMG on Sept 22, 2008 17:34:13 GMT -5
Sadie's point is she doesn't like McCartney. Duck, incoming! Not to worry. It'll be so long winded, by the time it gets here no one's going to care.
|
|