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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 8, 2012 8:40:26 GMT -5
Listening to that experimental linked video that was made for NOW AND THEN, I think George was right -- it IS rubbish. Enough already. John and George aren't here anymore. John's tin can vocals always sound way distant as though he's singing in a toilet. Ringo's drums always come off as slow and plodding, as though a four year-old was keeping the time. Let it go. Oh come on Joe! I am actually warming to the idea of the Beatles Boys not just playing together but asking Paul and Ringo to join them! Hey, Ringo always uses a second drummer live so why not Zak!? It would be awesome to hear Julian and Sean blend their voices in harmony: I suspect together they would sound exactly like John! Paul on bass would free up James and Dhani to do the hot electric stuff on guitars.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Oct 8, 2012 9:12:47 GMT -5
I enjoyed all three of the Antholgies but there are so many tracks that they missed and didn't include--at least enough for Anthology IV. What would you include in Anthology IV? I would include more alternate takes especially songs like Don't Bother Me, She's A Woman and What You're Doing to name three.
Also I agree that FAAB was recorded at a tempo that was much too slow. I used to have a pitch control on my turntable that would slightly speed up or slow down a recording. I always listened to it with the pitch at the highest speed and it was a 100% improvement. I also used that control to listen to She's Leaving Home slowed down to normal speed. Again, a big improvement. BTW She's Leaving Home in mono is at the correct speed.
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 8, 2012 10:10:28 GMT -5
I enjoyed all three of the Antholgies but there are so many tracks that they missed and didn't include--at least enough for Anthology IV. What would you include in Anthology IV? I would include more alternate takes especially songs like Don't Bother Me, She's A Woman and What You're Doing to name three. Also I agree that FAAB was recorded at a tempo that was much too slow. I used to have a pitch control on my turntable that would slightly speed up or slow down a recording. I always listened to it with the pitch at the highest speed and it was a 100% improvement. I also used that control to listen to She's Leaving Home slowed down to normal speed. Again, a big improvement. BTW She's Leaving Home in mono is at the correct speed. I am surprised that we didn't get some kind of alternate version of "Revolution," whether my favorite which is the soundtrack for the promo film(with Paul and George very active in the backing vocals) or that cool one that combines the song with the basic underlying track to "Revolution #9."
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Post by mikev on Oct 8, 2012 11:35:57 GMT -5
I enjoyed all three of the Antholgies but there are so many tracks that they missed and didn't include--at least enough for Anthology IV. What would you include in Anthology IV? I would include more alternate takes especially songs like Don't Bother Me, She's A Woman and What You're Doing to name three. Also I agree that FAAB was recorded at a tempo that was much too slow. I used to have a pitch control on my turntable that would slightly speed up or slow down a recording. I always listened to it with the pitch at the highest speed and it was a 100% improvement. I also used that control to listen to She's Leaving Home slowed down to normal speed. Again, a big improvement. BTW She's Leaving Home in mono is at the correct speed. A ton of stuff remains in the can- the rest of Decca- including Love of the Loved, BBC recordings, live recording (Hollywood Bowl, DC, Paris, Shea, Japan), Sullivan, acetates, including all of the Peter and Gordon stuff, Kinfauns and Nagra. Throw in Carnival of Light- even if it sucks
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Post by beatleroadie on Oct 8, 2012 13:01:23 GMT -5
The 11-minute version of Revolution The 8-minute version of It's All Too Much Jessie's Dream and Shirley's Wild Accordion from MMT film Carnival of Light Strawberry Fields (original WITH backing vocals) Strawberry Fields (full heavy/orchestrated version) Granny Smith (early version of Love You To) Across the Universe (hums wild version w/backwards guitar) Peggy Sue Got Married (jam from I Me Mine session) Goodbye (Paul's demo) Bad to Me (John's demo)
+ Some Live at the BBC stuff that hasn't been released.
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Post by stavros on Oct 11, 2014 18:00:00 GMT -5
Loved every aspect of it. I felt it dropped the ball when it didn't release an album containing just the previously unreleased songs and the best of the alternates. Looking forward to the Anthology 20th anniversary celebrations in 2014, though! Sorry to dig up an old thread. But so long has passed that the Anthology project is farther from the present day than John's tragic murder was when the project came to an end. It's now become a part of Beatles history. Sadly we have also lost George and that is almost a generation ago as well. Time is very much the fire in which we all burn. The Anthology 20th Anniversary celebrations never materialized. It's 50 years since the Beatles first played America and many other territories and media focus has been on those events. So I feel that the Anthology has now become almost a lost chapter of Beatles history. 'Free As A Bird' and 'Real Love' have never been fully accepted as part of the real 'Beatles' canon. I am not sure about the rest of the world but "Anthology" never got much exposure on TV after it's original airing in the UK. Even the DVD release, more than a decade ago, did not particularly get much attention here in the UK. There was a 'special' on CNN but was virtually ignored by the mainstream media (BBC, ITV, CH4, CH5 and even Sky). That all said you can still pick up the DVD set and the CDs from a number of well known online distributors. There must still be a market for the product. But when I first wrote the opening post to this thread back in May 2011 I can't say I have changed my mind about the Anthology CDs. I don't think I have viewed the DVDs (in their entirety) either since that date. The onus now seems to be on marketing the Beatles solo output. I would love to see an Anthology series on the Beatles "Gone Solo". But how realistic is that?
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Post by debjorgo on Oct 11, 2014 18:35:32 GMT -5
.... I would love to see an Anthology series on the Beatles "Gone Solo". But how realistic is that? Maybe not so unrealistic, after all. I always thought a stumbling block to something like that was the Beatles not wanting to mingle the solo careers. But with the 4 release on iTunes, maybe that's not the case anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2014 20:57:39 GMT -5
They are Beatles songs. End of. In your opinion They are Beatles songs, but, definitely not "End of" the debate.
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Post by coachbk on Oct 11, 2014 23:10:21 GMT -5
I loved everything about the whole ANTHOLOGY project. I'd love to see another volume with some of the other demos of unreleased songs, more India and Kinfaus stuff, "Carnival Of Light" and "Now And Then". I was reading this (not knowing it was an old thread being revived) and thought "I totally agree with this guy". Then I looked and realized it was me-LOL. Still feel this way BTW. My favorites: 1. Real Love 2. Across The Universe 3. Leave My Kitten Alone 4. While My Guitar Gently Weeps 5. Hello Little Girl 6. Free As A Bird 7. Not Guilty 8. Can't Buy Me Love 9. Sgt Pepper's Reprise 10. Strawberry Field Forever/Edit Piece 11. If You've Got Trouble 12. You Know What To Do 13. Obladi Oblada 14. I'm Down 15. Three Cool Cats 16. I'm Looking Through You 17. And Your Bird Can Sing 18. Oh Darling 19. A Day In The Life 20. In Spite Of All The Danger 21. Cry For A Shadow 22. All Things Must Pass 23. Penny Lane 24. Tomorrow Never Knows 25. Teddy Boy 26. The End 27. Eight Days A Week 28. One After 909 29. Got To Get You Into My Life 30. What's The New Mary Jane
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kc
Beatle Freak
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Post by kc on Oct 12, 2014 1:11:16 GMT -5
I think the whole audio side of the Anthology project could do with a revamp. Although I was generally pleased with the three CD sets we got in the 1990s, I felt at the time that things could have been done better. By this I mean the inclusion of omitted songs, the placement of FAAB and RL at the end of the final volume (with these initially made available only as singles, thus surely guaranteeing they went to # 1) and so on.
I subsequently thought that the series could have been improved/corrected with the issuing of a fourth volume. I would still snap up that release if it ever appeared, but it would mess up the chronology of the series as a whole.
I really would like to know if we will be getting audio releases associated with the Beatles Live project film that has been reported to be coming next year. I think that the scope is there for a number of albums that address specific live events, e.g. Shea stadium, Hollywood Bowl, etc. If these should eventuate, or even a single live album compilation, then what is the point of the handful of live tracks that appear on the present Anthology releases?
I can visualise a new expanded Anthology series that is not a combination of live, outtakes and unreleased material mixed together as at present. Instead, we would have something along the lines of the Bob Dylan Bootleg series. That is, a more rationally organised succession of albums released over a number of years. There could be separate volumes for the live concerts to 1966, an official Decca set, an alternate takes set, the rooftop concert, the list goes on. The corollary would probably be the deletion of the extant Anthology 1,2 and 3 albums.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 12, 2014 6:42:28 GMT -5
They are Beatles songs. End of. In your opinion They are Beatles songs, but, definitely not "End of" the debate. Ah, I always love setting you straight on this topic. There is no debate -- Yeah - they are BEATLES SONGS. Why? Because that is what the artists themselves decided when they recorded and issued those discs. It does not matter in the least what your opinion is ... nor mine ... nor vectisfabber's.... all that matters is what Paul, George, Ringo, and John (legally thru Yoko) intended them to be.
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Post by Panther on Oct 12, 2014 10:23:39 GMT -5
I think Apple basically crapped the bed with the original Anthology project. The idea of a 90s' release of 60s' outtakes and alternative recordings was a good one -- but that's all it needed to be. Throwing in live tracks and those spliced-together versions of 3 or 4 takes was unnecessary and screwed up future archival releases.
I think about two discs of studio outtakes would have been more than enough, as The Beatles aren't the kind of group that have a lot of studio stuff that's worth hearing, aside from the released masters.
After the '94/'95 release of that two-disc studio outtakes set, Apple could have then released, as kc suggests, an ongoing kind of 'Bootleg Series', with one hyped-up release every couple of years (just as Bob Dylan's people have done at Columbia, with great success).
Apple put too much half-baked crap on Anthology, mixing up random stuff that doesn't fit well together. Some of the outtakes are not worth hearing even once (and they also picked some mediocre live performances).
A more accurate artist-name for this release, instead of "The Beatles", would be "George and Ringo's Retirement Fund with Paul McCartney's Ego".
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Oct 12, 2014 12:20:52 GMT -5
If P,G,& R worked on a third "reunion" song, and there were attempts at takes in the studio, might as well have someone "whisk" them out of wherever they might still exist and bootleg them. Can't be any worse than some of the other really crappy takes they did in the 60's and which found their ways onto bootlegs. Of course we diehard fans want it all, especially a disjuncted third reunion song in any condition.....
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markc
Very Clean
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Post by markc on Oct 12, 2014 12:34:07 GMT -5
The Stones keep adding vocals and things to old tracks in second CDs in their rereleases, at least on Exile and Some Girls. The Some Girls Live in Texas DVD is fantastic.
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Post by mikev on Oct 12, 2014 12:46:59 GMT -5
If P,G,& R worked on a third "reunion" song, and there were attempts at takes in the studio, might as well have someone "whisk" them out of wherever they might still exist and bootleg them. Can't be any worse than some of the other really crappy takes they did in the 60's and which found their ways onto bootlegs. Of course we diehard fans want it all, especially a disjuncted third reunion song in any condition..... View AttachmentI think this is fake, because it has been further embellished to when I first heard it.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 12, 2014 15:10:17 GMT -5
I think Apple basically crapped the bed with the original Anthology project. The idea of a 90s' release of 60s' outtakes and alternative recordings was a good one -- but that's all it needed to be. Throwing in live tracks and those spliced-together versions of 3 or 4 takes was unnecessary and screwed up future archival releases. Personally, I would have liked just straight studio outtakes. However, they must have done something right, since the ANTHOLOGY releases were hugely successful and I believe The Beatles went down as the #1 sellers of 1996. I would welcome that... I think it can still be done. There are always enough outtakes and various mixes to make new "official bootleg" albums.
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Post by debjorgo on Oct 12, 2014 16:41:38 GMT -5
After the '94/'95 release of that two-disc studio outtakes set, Apple could have then released, as kc suggests, an ongoing kind of 'Bootleg Series', with one hyped-up release every couple of years (just as Bob Dylan's people have done at Columbia, with great success). I would welcome that... I think it can still be done. There are always enough outtakes and various mixes to make new "official bootleg" albums. If Apple don't half-ass it with iTune only releases.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Oct 12, 2014 21:38:35 GMT -5
If P,G,& R worked on a third "reunion" song, and there were attempts at takes in the studio, might as well have someone "whisk" them out of wherever they might still exist and bootleg them. Can't be any worse than some of the other really crappy takes they did in the 60's and which found their ways onto bootlegs. Of course we diehard fans want it all, especially a disjuncted third reunion song in any condition..... View AttachmentI think this is fake, because it has been further embellished to when I first heard it. I hold out hope that the Threetles actually finished the song; and it turned out to be the best of the three reunion songs and they decided not to release it until the last Beatle passes away. That way they will blow everyone's mind and surprise the world by reaching #1 on the charts with a hit after they have all departed this world. What a coup that would be! The final icing on the cake! John would have loved it!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 1:16:44 GMT -5
In your opinion They are Beatles songs, but, definitely not "End of" the debate. Ah, I always love setting you straight on this topic. There is no debate -- Yeah - they are BEATLES SONGS. Why? Because that is what the artists themselves decided when they recorded and issued those discs. It does not matter in the least what your opinion is ... nor mine ... nor vectisfabber's.... all that matters is what Paul, George, Ringo, and John (legally thru Yoko) intended them to be. You didn't set me straight at all, you just tried to ram home your opinion. John didn't have anything to do with these quasi Beatle releases, they were his solo demos, tarted up and used by the others to sell their Anthology. That's all they'll ever be to me. One reason they did it is because they knew most would fall for the Beatles gimmick...
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Post by vectisfabber on Oct 13, 2014 3:01:39 GMT -5
John didn't have anything to do with these quasi Beatle releases, they were his solo demos Spot the contradiction.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 5:35:14 GMT -5
John didn't have anything to do with these quasi Beatle releases, they were his solo demos Spot the contradiction. It's not a contradiction, it's 2 separate points. I don't mind, i'll spell it out for you. John made some demos and was murdered before he got to do anything with them. The surviving Beatles had an idea to fill their coffers, make a series of videos and cd's that told their story . But, they needed a good selling point, something to get all the Beatle fans interested in buying their products, so, they came up with the idea of getting 2 of John's solo demo's, playing on them themselves, and then, calling and releasing them as Beatle songs. That was the gimmick of the century. A brilliant marketing ploy.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 13, 2014 6:03:45 GMT -5
You didn't set me straight at all, you just tried to ram home your opinion. As I clearly wrote in my last post: it has nothing to do with "my opinion".. nor "your opinion". It has everything to do with the decision of the four original members themselves (Paul, George, Ringo, and Yoko legally speaking for John). They get to make this call -- not you nor I... What's so difficult to grasp? John had everything to do with these releases, in the sense that Yoko is his spokesperson and makes choices for him. George Harrison never intended for certain things to be released, yet Olivia and Dhani are now his legal decision-makers and they put out EARLY TAKES and so on. You always like to say how "I Me Mine" is the true last Beatles song, even though John Lennon was not there at the final session with P,G, and R . Consider also songs like "Yesterday" or "The Ballad of John and Yoko", which feature only one or two members, and yet they are still issued as by THE BEATLES . That's all they'll ever to be to you because you have an obsession with the mediocre LET IT BE album, and you want desperately to believe this is the Beatles' last recorded album (which it is not). Technically, the last "Beatles Songs" ever worked on are FREE AS A BIRD and REAL LOVE. One more thing: I personally could not care less if these two Anthology songs weren't "The Beatles"... I would actually prefer them NOT to be such, as I feel both are rather weak and a blemish on The Beatles' overall recording history. So this has nothing to do with "falling for a gimmick". The Anthology songs are no more a "gimmick" than YESTERDAY, THE BALLAD OF JOHN & YOKO, or REVOLUTION 9 were.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 13, 2014 6:11:35 GMT -5
The surviving Beatles had an idea to fill their coffers, make a series of videos and cd's that told their story . For your information, this project was something that had been discussed since the 1970s. ALL FOUR BEATLES were in favor of doing this ultimate telling of their own story, including John Lennon. -- In 1974 John was interviewed on New York's TODAY SHOW, and he referenced the project (which for the longest time was going to be titled THE LONG AND WINDING ROAD). It took another 20 years (and a settling of the dust and red tape) to finally get this vision realized, and it became ANTHOLOGY. But John was every bit as much a champion of this project as the other three... he said so himself. Sorry to disappoint you, but the ANTHOLOGY would have been just as big a seller and as desirable to Beatles Fans even without two new songs. "FAAB" and "REAL LOVE" to me are the most dispensable and uninteresting items throughout the three volumes. It's the outtakes and rarities I wanted. And you know what? Even if this was a "gimmick" it doesn't change the fact that the two new songs are still Beatles songs, as condoned by the four parties invovled.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 6:27:48 GMT -5
Sorry to disappoint you, but the ANTHOLOGY would have been just as big a seller and as desirable to Beatles Fans even without two new songs. That statement is not based on fact because the Anthology WAS released with these gimmicks as marketing tools. We'll never know how the Anthology would have sold without them. Of course the surviving Beatles and those that inherited John's estate said they were Beatles songs, they were ALL trying to benefit from the sales. You can't have half of them in favour of the gimmick and the other half at loggerheads if the plan was to succeed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 6:42:08 GMT -5
Listening to that experimental linked video that was made for NOW AND THEN, I think George was right -- it IS rubbish. Enough already. John and George aren't here anymore. John's tin can vocals always sound way distant as though he's singing in a toilet. Ringo's drums always come off as slow and plodding, as though a four year-old was keeping the time. Let it go. Let It Be Paul, that is tripe. The gimmick would have back fired big time if they also threw this one in as Beatles song. Thankfully, George knew the snow job had peaked.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 13, 2014 9:39:59 GMT -5
We'll never know how the Anthology would have sold without them. Ask Beatles Fans if they bought the 2-CD ANTHOLOGY VOLUMES only for these songs, or because they first and foremost wanted to add Beatles Rarities to their collections. Both FAAB and REAL LOVE were also available as separate singles. I hardly think all four needed to worry about money. Any one of them could have resisted, and the project would have been squashed. By the way - interesting that you've ignored addressing so many of my points. I take this to mean you have learned some things (such as John also being in favor of ANTHOLOGY from back when it would have been called THE LONG AND WINDING ROAD) . Just address the points.
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Post by mikev on Oct 13, 2014 9:57:06 GMT -5
I think there were legal ramnifications to the reunion as well. In a deposition against Beatlemania made shortly before John's death, he deposed that the band in fact would reunite for the documentary. Maybe they had to adjudicate this. I had to look up the word to make sure it was the right term. I'm not a lawyer like some of us
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Post by Panther on Oct 13, 2014 19:01:44 GMT -5
Just to point out: the fact that Dakota-John lazily said he might theoretically agree to a Beatle-project of (what became) the Anthology does not mean that John in 1990-something would have wanted crappy living room demos of his released as "Beatles" records. To suggest that Yoko's legal approval of such a project equals (large-size font) "all 4 Beatles" is absurd.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 13, 2014 19:24:14 GMT -5
Just to point out: the fact that Dakota-John lazily said he might theoretically agree to a Beatle-project of (what became) the Anthology does not mean that John in 1990-something would have wanted crappy living room demos of his released as "Beatles" records. To suggest that Yoko's legal approval of such a project equals (large-size font) "all 4 Beatles" is absurd. I can see your point "quality-wise" (and I would agree the demo is way below standards -- but then again, so was REVOLUTION 9 and yet it was "a Beatles song"). But technically ... legally... officially... the demos are still part of "these Beatles songs". We can never know for sure what John would have felt... but we do know that John always trusted Yoko's judgment implicitly, and relied on her. It is in no way "absurd" to explain that Yoko, for all intents and purposes since her husband's death, officially "speaks for John" . Even if John's spirit is cringing and reeling from his demo being used, that doesn't change the fact that the two Anthology songs are still "The Beatles".
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 13, 2014 20:44:06 GMT -5
My beef with Anthology is that John is not well represented throughout and while we get contemporary filmed interviews with Paul, George and Ringo who agreed to extensive interviews specifically about the Beatles, for John we get either just scratchy audio interviews from God knows when or grainy filmed interviews from Dick Cavett or Mike Douglas or Tom Snyder where John was there for reasons other than The Beatles but gets asked some quick question on The Beatles, snuck in by one of those guys, and John gives an equally quick response.
And those almost flippant responses from John must compete throughout Anthology with the contemporary musings of P, G, and R who again agreed to be filmed in cool locations, looking cool and waxing seemingly endlessly and in depth on every topic under the sun as to The Beatles. John gets brief sound bytes while Paul is interviewed at length driving boats, using chainsaws on twigs, in front of his 1993 Tour stage and piloting the Space Shuttle.
John comes across as an afterthought in Anthology and that sucks. God forbid then there be a Solo Anthology because now both John and George would get shortchanged as would Ringo and he is still alive. Solo Anthology would become Wingspan II or something hideous like that.
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