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Post by joeyself on Dec 26, 2010 21:51:38 GMT -5
WALLS AND BRIDGES, Side 2 vs. ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2
WALLS AND BRIDGES, Side 2
1."#9 Dream" – 4:47 2."Surprise, Surprise (Sweet Bird of Paradox)" – 2:55 3."Steel and Glass" – 4:37 4."Beef Jerky" – 3:26 5."Nobody Loves You (When You're Down and Out)" – 5:08 6."Ya Ya" – 1:06
ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2
1. "What Is Life" 4:22 2. "If Not for You" (Bob Dylan) 3:29 3. "Behind That Locked Door" 3:05 4. "Let It Down" 4:57 5. "Run of the Mill" 2:49
W&B 2 got here by beating LONDON TOWN 1 in a relatively close match, 11-8. ATMP 2 had an easier time ousting MIND GAMES 1 by a 18-1 count.
JcS
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Post by coachbk on Dec 26, 2010 22:35:15 GMT -5
Pretty easy choice of ATMP 2. ATMP has two great songs ("What Is Life" and "Run Of The Mill") compared to one on W&B (#9 Dream). ATMP has the next best song ("Let It Down") over "Steel And Glass" from W&B. "Nobody Loves You When You're Down And Out" and "Behind That Locked Door" are pretty equal. I like "If Not For You" better than the bland trendy sound of "Surprise Surprise". Plus two nonsense songs ("Beef Jerky" and "Ya Ya") are too many for one side. An easy win for George with an album side that is a potential final four choice.
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Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Dec 26, 2010 22:47:22 GMT -5
For me, Side 2 of ATMP is the weakest side of the four ATMP sides in this tournament. However, all the tracks are good (What Is Life & Run Of The Mill are killers), except If Not For You, which I don't care for over much. Dylan himself got closer to an arrangement this song needs, I feel.
Walls/Bridges 2 has two good songs: Dream, and Nobody Loves You When. The rest are a plodder's songs for me. And to revisit the severe put-down song (Steel & Glass) shows an artist bereft of good ideas. Hey Johnny, How Do You Sleep had some point and was sweepingly dramatic; Steel & Glass is limp and old.
Hari ploughs on in the fertile fields of rock ...
McCabe
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2010 23:34:55 GMT -5
All Things Must Pass is THE best Beatles solo album and for me side 2 beats WALLS AND BRIDGES Side 2 but i don't think it beats it easily....
Walls and Bridges is a very good album from John but it's more than met it's match here.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 27, 2010 6:16:48 GMT -5
If it had been Side 1 of ATMP I might vote differently, but I give WALLS AND BRIDGES the edge here by an ever-so-thin hair. And I really, really, love John's stinging STEEL AND GLASS. It's one of my very favorites of all his solo tracks.
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Post by joeyself on Dec 27, 2010 8:07:33 GMT -5
Easy call this time, as there's nothing on W&B 2 that I like after the first song plays off. Oh, "Beef Jerky" is OK once in awhile, but the rest of it is just filler to me.
ATMP 2 isn't perfect--I prefer side 3 and most of side 1--but it's more than good enough to survive this contest.
JcS
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Post by mikev on Dec 27, 2010 19:04:38 GMT -5
WALLS AND BRIDGES, Side 2
1."#9 Dream" 10 2."Surprise, Surprise (Sweet Bird of Paradox)" 9 3."Steel and Glass" 8.5 4."Beef Jerky" – 7 5."Nobody Loves You (When You're Down and Out)" – 10 6."Ya Ya" not gonna grade this
ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2
1. "What Is Life" 10 2. "If Not for You" (Bob Dylan) 9.5 3. "Behind That Locked Door" 10 4. "Let It Down" 9 5. "Run of the Mill" 9
Not going to see what I graded these before. Here you have two of my favorite LPs including favorite solo tracks.
ATMP gets the slight edge, since Beef Jerky is just okay.
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Post by acebackwords on Dec 27, 2010 21:24:46 GMT -5
Oh geez, these are two of the solo classics. I can't believe John is getting stomped by George. I'm going with W&B if only for #9 Dream, the last great Lennon song in my head.
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Post by John S. Damm on Dec 28, 2010 0:25:11 GMT -5
WALLS AND BRIDGES, Side 2Both men had something to prove when they released these two albums although for different reasons. George had to prove that he could be a viable solo artist in the wake of the Beatles' wreck when surrounded by two giants while John had to re-establish himself as one after a not inconsiderable slump started by STINYC and only slightly mitigated by Mind Games. Frankly, John had dug himself into a very deep hole with STINYC. Never mind that George was in a huge slump by 1974/75 and never-mind that MG should not have gotten trounced so bad as it did in the last Round, 18-1! "What Is Life" and "Run of the Mill" are great Harrison for sure. There is nothing remotely close to being bad on ATMP-2. Yet John gets my vote for the idiosyncrasies and flaws that make John Lennon so damn interesting throughout his career. It's that, "wart's and all" thing that causes me to cast my vote for Dr. Winston O'Boogie here. Sure, "#9 Dream" might be Strawberry Fields Forever-lite but by 1974 we fans needed something, anything, to prove to us that "The Dream Weaver" had indeed once existed and was not a product of a prolonged acid trip or a dream("Was it in a dream, was it just a dream?"). "Surprise, Surprise (Sweet Bird of Paradox)" is a quirky rocker that proved(as if we didn't already know from STINYC) that John was no saint and could succumb to the beautiful, warm flesh of someone other than his Yoko( the love story for many of the Woodstock Generation) yet John pulls it off with humor and tasty guitar riffs which manage to borrow from former glories to yet again show it was not a dream. John manfully(and interestingly) navigates through WB-2 until we reach his tour de force with "Nobody Loves You (When You're Down and Out)." This song would be whining by anyone other than John Lennon. With John it was real and reflected that amazing fall from grace with his fans that really first started when John threw his lot in with Yoko and stuck his prick out for the world to see on an album cover(for an album of burps and farts) culminating with his "banishment" from Yoko for eighteen months in the longest weekend of all time. Frank Sinatra should have covered this song, it is that good and heartfelt. ATMP-2 is great Side of craft-like music but one that a Rick Danko or even a Glen Campbell might have duplicated(I limit this thought to ATMP-2 as other Sides there are more uniquely Hari). No one but John Lennon could have given us the songs on WB-2 and therein lies the difference with me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2010 1:26:13 GMT -5
ATMP-2 is great Side of craft-like music but one that a Rick Danko or even a Glen Campbell might have duplicated. man you can draw a long bow sometimes..... ;D
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Post by John S. Damm on Dec 28, 2010 9:59:47 GMT -5
ATMP-2 is great Side of craft-like music but one that a Rick Danko or even a Glen Campbell might have duplicated. man you can draw a long bow sometimes..... ;D Songs 1 through 3 could have been done by many artists of that era. Note I thought that other Sides of ATMP were uniquely Harrison but not really Side 2. "If Not For You" is a cover so that obviously applies to my thinking. "Behind That Locked Door" is the song I am really thinking of: great song but it could have been written by any number of musicians of that era. ATMP-2 is indeed a very strong Side, nary a clunker. Yet it is not the best on that album and not better than John's W&B-2 in my opinion.
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JCV
Very Clean
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Post by JCV on Dec 28, 2010 12:43:54 GMT -5
ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2George for sure. I only really like two of John's songs on this side. JCV
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Post by stavros on Dec 28, 2010 14:04:29 GMT -5
I went for ATMP2 in the last round but have decided to give John a break and vote for Walls and Bridges this time. I also like the newer re-mixed version for the clarity of John's voice. A much better album than I once thought. ATMP2 has a nice variety of tracks on it and loses by a whisker.
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Post by ursamajor on Dec 28, 2010 16:33:19 GMT -5
I went for W&B S-2 because with ATMP-2 although the songs are top drawer, the Phil Spector production irritates me and ruins the songs especially Let It Down.
W&B S-2 has top drawer songs as well, I think Surprise Surprise was better on Lennon Anthology , abit quicker, punchier and rockier but apart from that I think it's better overall.
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Post by joeyself on Dec 28, 2010 18:10:04 GMT -5
I went for W&B S-2 because with ATMP-2 although the songs are top drawer, the Phil Spector production irritates me and ruins the songs especially Let It Down. W&B S-2 has top drawer songs as well, I think Surprise Surprise was better on Lennon Anthology , abit quicker, punchier and rockier but apart from that I think it's better overall. I'm not too fond of the production of either album, at least in spots. JcS
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Post by theman on Dec 28, 2010 21:54:33 GMT -5
I find it interesting that so many people here have such high regard for "Walls and Bridges", which is, IMO, a very average album (and nowhere near as good as ATMP...including side 2). I don't think I'm the only one who shares this opinion. I'm currently reading the book, "Starting Over, The Making of Double Fantasy" by Ken Sharp and I was struck by a quote early on in the book by John himself...."Musically, my mind was just a clutter. It was apparent in 'Walls and Bridges", which was the work of a semisick craftsman. There was no inspiration, and it gave off an aura of misery. I couldn't hear the music for the noise in my own head. By turning away, (i.e., retiring to be a house husband..my words, by the way, not John's) I began to hear it again."
Of course, this may just be another example of John saying something that he didn't really mean. He certainly was a happier man at the time of this interview and talking about a happier album like "Double Fantasy" may have influenced his rather sour description of 'Walls and Bridges".
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 29, 2010 5:58:13 GMT -5
I find it interesting that so many people here have such high regard for "Walls and Bridges", which is, IMO, a very average album (and nowhere near as good as ATMP...including side 2). I don't think I'm the only one who shares this opinion. I'm currently reading the book, "Starting Over, The Making of Double Fantasy" by Ken Sharp and I was struck by a quote early on in the book by John himself...."Musically, my mind was just a clutter. It was apparent in 'Walls and Bridges", which was the work of a semisick craftsman. There was no inspiration, and it gave off an aura of misery. I couldn't hear the music for the noise in my own head. By turning away, (i.e., retiring to be a house husband..my words, by the way, not John's) I began to hear it again." Of course, this may just be another example of John saying something that he didn't really mean. He certainly was a happier man at the time of this interview and talking about a happier album like "Double Fantasy" may have influenced his rather sour description of 'Walls and Bridges". An artist is often his own harshest critic. Remember also that John never even liked the sound of his own voice, and put his abilities down constantly. So it means nothing to me that Lennon himself didn't like certain songs of his own, or albums. I think WALLS AND BRIDGES is a good, solid John Lennon Album. I view it from that perspective. It's more accessible, more commercial, a fine album. I think PLASTIC ONO BAND, IMAGINE, and WALLS AND BRIDGES are John's three best albums. And in all fairness to John, he did not live long enough to give us that many solo records.
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Post by coachbk on Dec 29, 2010 9:54:28 GMT -5
I find it interesting that so many people here have such high regard for "Walls and Bridges", which is, IMO, a very average album (and nowhere near as good as ATMP...including side 2). I don't think I'm the only one who shares this opinion. . No you are not because that is exactly how I feel. In no way shape or form does W&B belong in any discussion of great albums. It isn't BAD by any means, just very average.
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Post by John S. Damm on Dec 29, 2010 12:50:54 GMT -5
I find it interesting that so many people here have such high regard for "Walls and Bridges", which is, IMO, a very average album (and nowhere near as good as ATMP...including side 2). I don't think I'm the only one who shares this opinion. . No you are not because that is exactly how I feel. In no way shape or form does W&B belong in any discussion of great albums. It isn't BAD by any means, just very average. I would agree that Walls And Bridges is an enigma. Right now I am very high on it but there are times I may even feel like you do about it, coachbk. I do know that in those seemingly endless years from 1975 to November 1980 when John released no new albums of original material, I clung to W&B as solace and looked to it for possible clues as to where John might be heading musically.
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Post by anyoneanyhow on Jan 4, 2011 20:37:28 GMT -5
ATMP
closer than I would have thought, but George's side is nearly perfect. and Steel and Glass is awful, I feel so sorry for John here.
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Post by RockoRoll on Jan 11, 2011 0:15:36 GMT -5
ALL THINGS MUST PASS, Side 2
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