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Post by joeyself on Feb 21, 2011 21:52:51 GMT -5
IMAGINE, Side 1 vs. RAM, Side 1
IMAGINE, Side 1
1. "Imagine" 3:01 2. "Crippled Inside" 3:47 3. "Jealous Guy" 4:14 4. "It's So Hard" 2:25 5. "I Don't Want to Be a Soldier" 6:05
RAM, Side 1
1. "Too Many People" 4:10 2. "3 Legs" 2:44 3. "Ram On" 2:26 4. "Dear Boy" 2:12 5. "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey" 4:49 6. "Smile Away" 3:51
A pair from 1971 get matched this time--which former Fab turned in the best side 1 that year? (and yes, I know WILD LIFE was also 1971...)
JcS
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Post by anyoneanyhow on Feb 21, 2011 22:10:03 GMT -5
Imagine, Side 1
Take away the songs of questionable quality- John's Soldier, Paul's Three Legs, Smile Away and Ram On...and I gotta give it to Imagine, which boasts an all-time classic in the title song as well as one of the most moving love songs recorded in Jealous Guy.
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diego
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Post by diego on Feb 21, 2011 22:45:11 GMT -5
Ram On, give your vote to McCartney, soon, right away...
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Joseph McCabe
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A rebel to his last breath ...
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Feb 21, 2011 23:43:22 GMT -5
I'm in a quandry. As I've said before, I do like Ram Side 1 overall: but the goofy and silly Uncle Albert has to be dealt with. I like Too Many People and 3 Legs a great deal (I can not understand the flack 3 Legs gets!). The other songs are good.
But Imagine is Imagine; and side 1 is its better side. Earlier in this tournament I said:
And it's that effort that stands out for me against what is, ultimately, the emptiness of Ram.
Imagine1 gets my vote.
McCabe
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Post by joeyself on Feb 21, 2011 23:43:52 GMT -5
I may have to discard my vote later, but I'm going early this time.
This one is very easy for me; I'd put RAM 1 on the turntable over IMAGINE 1 9 out of 10 times, and the only reason it wouldn't be all ten is that 9 plays of RAM would be enough for that day. RAM 1 has only one real weak track, and it ends the side. IMAGINE 1 suffers from the same weak ending, but "It's So Hard" and "Crippled Inside" are just filler, pleasant enough but nothing more. There's so much more to like--and love--on RAM 1.
JcS
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Post by coachbk on Feb 21, 2011 23:46:37 GMT -5
IMAGINE starts great with the title track, "Crippled Inside" and "Jealous Guy", but "It's So Hard" is only average and "Soldier" is bad. RAM has a nice opener in "Too Many People", but is followed by the embarrassing "3 Legs". "Ram On" gets things back on the right track. "Dear Boy" is quite good and "Uncle Albert" masters several musical styles in a single song and is incredibly catchy. "Smile Away" is dumb, but a fun rocker nonetheless. Averaging out the songs, IMAGINE gets a 3.4 and RAM gets a 3.8 (on a scale of 5). So my vote goes to RAM.
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Post by coachbk on Feb 21, 2011 23:50:19 GMT -5
[quote but the goofy and silly Uncle Albert has to be dealt with. I like Too Many People and 3 Legs a great deal (I can not understand the flack 3 Legs gets!).
McCabe[/quote]
If you think Uncle Albert is goofy and silly, I cannot imagine how you can not say the same thing about "3 Legs", which I (a much bigger fan of Paul than you) find both goofy and silly (not to mention annoying). It does have one nice little musical change, but the lyrics are so bad I just can't stomach it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2011 3:16:51 GMT -5
IMAGINE, Side 1
i cant IMAGINE ever voting for RAM...i not very fond of it.....
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Post by nicole21290 on Feb 22, 2011 3:40:40 GMT -5
RAM Side 1
Imagine - I'm not particularly fond of (don't really like, in fact) It's So Hard and Soldier and whilst I recognise that Imagine is a great song I'm so burnt out on it that I find it difficult to listen to it most of the time. I quite like Crippled Inside and I ADORE Jealous Guy very, very much. So we come to Ram...
Ram - Too Many People and Dear Boy, I think, are both phenomonal tracks - wonderful. Smile Away and 3 Legs are alright, I guess, but my finger hovers over the 'skip' button on some occasions. I think I have to be in the mood for them, esp. Smile Away. I find Ram On to actually be one of my favourites, to be honest, and I'm not quite sure why but it always puts a smile on my face and whilst, perhaps, it's inconsequential, I like the idea and I am always a sucker for the sound of a uke. Some find Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey annoying and grating but put me firmly in the camp of adoring it. Fun, fun, fun and a great sound.
So, yeah, I acknowledge that Imagine is a great album and this is a great side and I do like John's often very John-centred songs but, all in all, even if it's not as 'important' or 'worthy' I enjoy Ram a lot more - for it's sense of fun, melody and pure sound.
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Post by vectisfabber on Feb 22, 2011 6:00:05 GMT -5
Ram 1
Imagine 1 is fatally wounded by the didactic and excessive I Don't Want To Be A Soldier Mama (I Don't Want To Do) which also boasts a title which is not only crap but takes a week to type. This is the only song out of all those on both album sides which I actively dislike, but it reduces Imagine 1 to 13 minutes as opposed to 20 on Ram 1.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 22, 2011 8:42:42 GMT -5
I may be a "John Guy", but I'm voting here for Paul's RAM, Side 1.
RAM's first side here is perfect, the whole thing. Every song flows into each other marvelously, with varied moods and fun feelings. Many varied treats.
I think IMAGINE is one of John's very best albums, but is weaker as a whole Side than RAM 1 is in this matchup. I can enjoy I DON'T WANT TO BE A SOLDIER, but it is weaker than anything off RAM Side 1.
You got it, Paul.
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Post by John S. Damm on Feb 22, 2011 8:52:54 GMT -5
Imagine-1I love Ram but I take it as a whole listening experience. "Dear Boy" and "Too Many People" are great while the other songs are good except Sir Joe McCabe is persuasive about "Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey." I really, really don't like when Paul does silly voices on his songs and this may be the king of silly voice songs. Bits of it are great but the silly voices, blah! I will say say Ram was when Paul had artistic integrity which was about to fly out the window once he was forced to accept that critics and fans only wanted regurgitated Abbey Roads from him hence the BOTR's and V&M's, etc. Paul much later got his cool funk back but he had it on Ram. Imagine-1 is all great to me although Spector gets carried away on "Jealous Guy." As I wrote last Round, "Imagine" has been restored in my eyes as I look beyond the hype made for it by others, not John himself.
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Post by mikev on Feb 22, 2011 15:15:04 GMT -5
another virtual tie, but for Soldier, which just droans on to me.
Ram on.
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Post by anyoneanyhow on Feb 22, 2011 20:34:48 GMT -5
Wow Imagine must really suck. Hey we're missing some comments here, at least 5...I want to read more about why Ram is better than Imagine
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Post by coachbk on Feb 22, 2011 23:43:48 GMT -5
Wow Imagine must really suck. Hey we're missing some comments here, at least 5...I want to read more about why Ram is better than Imagine In response to this and your comment on another thread. IMAGINE does not suck and it may well even be as good (or better) than RAM in some ways. But this is a vote for album sides. IMAGINE has some great songs, but they are kind of evenly spread on each side. Plus each side of IMAGINE has a big time clunker. I'm one of those still amazed RAM side 2 lost in round 2. I like that side just about as much as I like side 1.
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diego
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Post by diego on Feb 23, 2011 0:12:14 GMT -5
Well, RAM is in my opinion Paul at his best, great melodies, great playing (listen for example to the bass on Dear Boy), some great solos (listen to the crazy solo on Too Many People, not sure if that's Paul but it's great), great singing as Paul was on top vocal form and Linda with her harmonies shines on this album in a way she would never do again (if only they had taken the same time and care for Wild Life), great arrangements with great instrumentations (Uncle Albert, Monkberry Moon Delight, Ram On). It's a diverse album with a bit of everything, and it doesn't have a sound (Imagine has a sound, ATMP has a sound), it was produced perfectly in my opinion with nothing more and nothing less than what it was needed. Then, of course, are the lyrics, which many would say is RAM's weakness. Yes, they can be silly and trivial, but who says every single song has to be a statement or have a deep meaning? What happened to just having fun? So Paul here is singing about the joys of newlywed life, of teenage love, of living in a farm on the country. What's wrong with that? This is Paul finally coming to terms with the end of The Beatles, now he's happy when before he wasn't. Speaking of lyrics and Beatles, not all the lyrics on RAM are trivial and meaningless, before he's completely over The Beatles he's got to throw a couple of jabs at Lennon, the other Beatles and Klein. RAM is not all about love and the country, there's also a resentment that he needed to air. He felt he was mistreated and betrayed ('well I thought that I could call you my friend') by the others and on RAM he says so. I'd say he even makes a bit of fun of Yoko's singing on Monkberry. Anyway, that's my point of view, I love RAM and I probably can't make anyone who doesn't change their minds. IMO if you like Macca's music you have to like RAM, as it represents Paul at his best. Now, IMAGINE is a damn fine album, with some great songs, but I prefer POB, I like my Lennon without the sugar on top for the conservatives
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 23, 2011 7:54:24 GMT -5
Plus each side of IMAGINE has a big time clunker. Sez you, perhaps. But you state this as though it's some kind of general understanding.
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JCV
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Post by JCV on Feb 23, 2011 12:51:20 GMT -5
RAM, Side 1Another tough decision. JCV
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Post by stavros on Feb 23, 2011 14:11:16 GMT -5
RAM. Imagine has two great songs. The title and Jealous Guy. Ram is strong throughout although 3 Legs is a bit of a duffer.
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Post by coachbk on Feb 23, 2011 16:31:23 GMT -5
Plus each side of IMAGINE has a big time clunker. Sez you, perhaps. But you state this as though it's some kind of general understanding. Well Ok, I'll put it another way. A majority of the reviews/critiques of IMAGINE which I have encountered consider the best songs to be "Imagine", "Jealous Guy" and "Gimme Some Truth" (two on side 1, 1 on side 2). Others that I find most people rate highly ("Crippled Inside", "Oh My Love", "How" and "Oh Yoko") are one on side 1 and two on side 2). The songs with more mixed opinions ("It's So Hard", "How Do You Sleep") are one on each side. I have rarely heard anyone praise "Soldier", which is on side 1 (though not everyone dislikes it). So again, I think cherry picking the 5 or 6 best songs to make a side would make IMAGINE great and a possible winner of this contest. But set up in sides, both are still good, but each falls a little short of several other sides. In my opinion, of course!
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Post by scousette on Feb 23, 2011 17:27:56 GMT -5
RAM, Side 1
It took me a long time to decide. But I went with RAM because I think that it is more satisfying.
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Post by acebackwords on Feb 23, 2011 18:37:19 GMT -5
Wow, I'm surprised to see Ram running away from Imagine. One guy holding a ram, the other guy holding a pig. Go figger. What a perfect contrast between the "lightweight" Uncle Albert and the "heavy" Imagine. I wonder if maybe Imagine isn't aging so well.
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Post by brothermichael on Feb 23, 2011 19:35:57 GMT -5
I have rarely heard anyone praise "Soldier", which is on side 1 (though not everyone dislikes it). I've noticed that general opinion of "Soldier" -- but I'll say it: I love it! I think the rhythm/backing are way ahead of the times (1971). It doesn't sound out of place today. The production and Lennon's singing are fantastic. And King Curtis on sax. Probably top five all-time Lennon for me.
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Post by ursamajor on Feb 23, 2011 20:26:29 GMT -5
I have rarely heard anyone praise "Soldier", which is on side 1 (though not everyone dislikes it). I've noticed that general opinion of "Soldier" -- but I'll say it: I love it! I think the rhythm/backing are way ahead of the times (1971). It doesn't sound out of place today. The production and Lennon's singing are fantastic. And King Curtis on sax. Probably top five all-time Lennon for me. I concur, I really like Soldier musically, it's just that some of the lyrics don't make sense to me, don't want to be a sailor mama , I don't want to fly .. I expect more from John than Paul when it comes to lyrics.
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