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Post by joeyself on Jun 16, 2010 17:20:01 GMT -5
WITH THE BEATLES, Side 2
"Roll Over Beethoven" 2:45 "Hold Me Tight" 2:32 "You Really Got a Hold on Me" 3:01 "I Wanna Be Your Man" 2:00 "Devil in Her Heart" 2:26 "Not a Second Time" 2:07 "Money (That's What I Want)" 2:50
ABBEY ROAD, Side 1
"Come Together" 4:20 "Something" 3:03 "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" 3:27 "Oh! Darling" 3:26 "Octopus's Garden" 2:51 "I Want You (She's So Heavy)" 7:47
Almost an Alpha-Omega pairing, this one should yield some discussion.
JcS
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Joseph McCabe
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A rebel to his last breath ...
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jun 16, 2010 20:15:11 GMT -5
ABBEY ROAD Side 1 I see Abbey Road as one of a pair of albums (Let It Be is the other) that says clearly and definitely that the collective creative juices are no longer flowing. I'll get to give my opinion on Side 2 later I guess; it's just Side 1 for now.
Come Together and I Want You are the only songs that recall "headier" days. They are a pair of Lennon "good 'uns", and a nice way to say goodbye. Something I had a whole thread on in the old board; suffice to say that I think its lyrics are very banal (and how!) in parts, and spoil the song for me. Maxwell is an out-of-favor song these days, but I think it's so McCartney - granny music, yes for sure. Its main problem for me is that it's so damn light. It's the aural equivalent of sponge-cake. Oh Darling is irrelevant. Paul, you are overdoing these style-showcases. Octopus's Garden ... no.
WITH THE BEATLES Side 2 But here is energy and drive and surges of power and passion and joy and ... Hell, no point is going through these songs one by one. Some are great, some are really good: none is a clunker ... NONE, do you hear. I won't hear a word against this ROCK album. Go Beatles.
WTB Side 2 gets my vote.
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Post by coachbk on Jun 16, 2010 20:24:42 GMT -5
A very easy choice: ABBEY ROAD side 1 all the way. "Something" is one of George's best songs and "Octopus Garden" is simply an excellent song, not just a good "Ringo" song. "Come Together" I don't love as much as some people, but it is still a good medium tempo rocker with a nice vocal from John. "Oh Darling" fits pretty much the same mode for Paul. "I Want You" has grown on me through the years. I like the studio effects. The much maligned "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" is really a great contrast of an upbeat (OK, I'll agree with fruity) tune with pretty downbeat lyrics. All in all a very mature album side. On the other hand, WITH THE BEATLES has only three originals and two of these ("Hold Me Tight" and "I Wanna Be Your Man") are among the group's weakest originals. "Not A Second Time" is good, but there are better originals on side one. The covers are good. "Money" is the best Beatles cover of all in my opinion and the other three are all of high quality, but it just doesn't come close to ABBEY ROAD even when taken in the context of the year each was recorded. I'll be shocked if this one isn't a landslide for ABBEY ROAD side one!
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Post by winstonoboogie on Jun 16, 2010 21:44:39 GMT -5
WTB Side 1, as there is only 1 song I don't care for ("Money", FWIW, as I don't agree with the sentiments ). I love Abbey Road - except for 2 songs - Maxwell (too weird, even for me!) and "I Want You" ( too repetitive IMHO).
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jun 17, 2010 5:35:03 GMT -5
Well, this is extremely difficult for me because WITH THE BEATLES is my favorite (UK) Beatles album. Just love the early, raw, hungry energy of the Fabs in this period. But on the other hand, Side 1 of ABBEY ROAD is pretty great, and the syles there are varied in so many ways. Both sides are equal to me in power.
In the end I'll vote for WITH THE BEATLES Side 2 though, as it is my favorite LP.
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wooltonian
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Post by wooltonian on Jun 17, 2010 6:04:41 GMT -5
Abbey Road - side 1.
This is really difficult because it's like comparing apples with bananas. Abbey Road side one is far from perfect, but I've never really connected with 'With the Beatles'...what it possesses in raw energy it lacks in maturity and emotional depth. The more grown up rock / pop of 'Abbey Road' is more my groove.
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Post by joeyself on Jun 17, 2010 6:10:04 GMT -5
Abbey Road - side 1.This is really difficult because it's like comparing apples with bananas. Yep. Both fruit, but hardly interchangeable... JcS
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Post by coachbk on Jun 17, 2010 6:50:16 GMT -5
I'm surprised that this is so close. To me the strength of WITH THE BEATLES is on side one with "All My Loving" and "It Won't Be Long" as outstanding tracks, among the best of the early Beatles. Also "Don't Bother Me" and "All I've Got To Do" are also above average. Of course, the American counterpart, MEET THE BEATLES is a much better album since it includes "I Want To Hold Your Hand", "I Saw Her Standing There" and "This Boy". Side one of MEET THE BEATLES is my favorite side of music of any pre-RUBBER SOUL Beatles LP. The covers are fun ("Money get my vote as the best cover anybody has ever done-what a fantastic performance!) but the biggest strength of the Beatles was their originals and with only three of those on WITH THE BEATLES side two, it just doesn't come close to ABBEY ROAD. Not difficult at all. BTW- this has been a great idea to get good discussion going!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2010 7:15:16 GMT -5
If you forget about the fact that WTB side 2 has cover versions on it whilst Abbey Road side 1 is all originals, it's really a battle between raw and polished and based on that fact i'm voting for...
With the Beatles..side 2
i like it raw... ;D
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Post by ursamajor on Jun 17, 2010 7:33:05 GMT -5
Side 1 of Abbey Rd is great but Maxwell and Octopus's Garden are just inessential songs, I can understand Octopus being a cute Ringo number but I don't think there's a need for a Maxwell style song at this stage of the Beatles career.
WTB Side 2 has 4 covers and 3 originals. I like all tracks except Roll Over Beethoven, I'm sure this sounded great in Hamburg and at the Cavern but no power here. Hold Me Tight is touted as a below average Paul song but I like it, not as much as the thrashy I Wanna Be Your Man but it fits with the raw energy of the rest of the songs. Ya Really Gotta Hold On Me is brilliant as is Not A Second Time, I think this was Ringo's best drumming to date. Finally , Devil in Her Heart is pretty mature for this stage of the Beatles career and Money is a real stomper.
WTB Side 2 for me
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Post by John S. Damm on Jun 17, 2010 8:08:36 GMT -5
WITH THE BEATLES, Side 2
This is another one that may be deceptive at first blush.
The Beatles sing their best, play their best and are recorded their best on Abbey Road yet it gets almost too slick. This slickness tries to cover up some songs lacking in depth and my focus here is on James Paul McCartney who drops the ball on AR-1(certainly not on AR-2 but we are not concerned with that Side here).
"Maxwell's Silver Hammer" is tolerable in the verses but the chorus is so darn goofy. Is it the worst thing the Fabs did? No but to me it has always been a big "Blah." It is not as cunning or clever as it thinks it is.
"Oh! Darling" is okay, not bad at all but damn-it, this was The Beatles swansong; they all but admitted that in Anthology. Sure, no one said it is the last time we would record an entire album together but Paul has said there was a feeling that that album could be it.
John brings his A-game to Side 1 with "Come Together" and the grossly underrated at the time "I Want You(She's So Heavy)", both of which remain staples on good F.M. play-lists. But Paul underwhelms us with MSH and OD. Again, not bad songs but completely underwhelming for what Paul suspected was a swansong.
Ringo is Ringo and OG is about as much as we could ever expect but I am glad he at least contributed a song with good guitar work by George and great harmony vocal work by some combination of the others.
George delivers with "Something," a song with such strong pop sensibilities that Paul had to have been very startled by what "little" George brought to the table and John too if John was paying attention.
To me AR-1 loses here because the Paul songs are sub-par(but sub-par for Paul can still be great compared to 85% of the rest of the Pop World). Before RTP and vectis hunt me down, Paul shines on Side 2 although I will always argue not exclusively. By the way, I predict AR-2 will do better in this Tourney than AR-1 but that isn't really such a bold prediction is it?
WITH THE BEATLES, Side 2 is not without fault but the fire, the passion, the collective love is there in full glory. I just watched the T.A.M.I. Concert and seeing Smokey Robinson and the Miracles do "You've Really Got a Hold On Me" made me realize just what a great cover job The Beatles did, particularly John on his lead vocal. The original is obviously amazing but The Beatles have nothing to be ashamed of in their cover of a song which would have tripped up many a covering act.
WTB-2 is a solid album Side from a band on the way up, up to the toppermost of the poppermost!
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Post by joeyself on Jun 17, 2010 9:10:31 GMT -5
I'm surprised that this is so close. ... BTW- this has been a great idea to get good discussion going! Yeah, you had predicted AR 1 would win easily. I wasn't so sure, mainly because I haven't yet made up my mind. And thanks; you missed the tourneys at the old site, and I've not run anything here in awhile. The outcome of the game is secondary to the discussions about the works. JcS
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Post by scousette on Jun 17, 2010 10:32:09 GMT -5
WTB, Side 2
My preference for early Fabs is showing here. I like AR but the energy, passion and spirit of the savage young Beatles are hard to deny. Rock and roll, baby!
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Post by John S. Damm on Jun 17, 2010 11:02:28 GMT -5
WTB, Side 2 My preference for early Fabs is showing here. I like AR but the energy, passion and spirit of the savage young Beatles are hard to deny. Rock and roll, baby! Starting with Joe McCabe to scousette, the theme is that WTB is rock and roll. I like that. I am in my three months and counting Stones' kick because I needed ROCK back in my life! Paul's mellower, introspective music as he ages (as found on Chaos for instance) is brilliant and forever dear to me but it seems that our three main Beatles made much more ballads or middle-of-the-road music in their solo years than rockers. Maybe I need to scrap the solo years and go back to early Beatles to satisfy my need for rock and roll although I will never again turn my back on the Stones and I continue in the joy of discovery with them. But early Beatles rock and I needed to be reminded of that. John rocks hard on AR-1 but no one else does(well, they rock with him on those two songs).
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JCV
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Post by JCV on Jun 17, 2010 12:56:38 GMT -5
ABBEY ROAD, Side 1I love, love, love the early stuff, but Abbey Road Side 1 is > than WTB. ;D And I can't believe you guys are saying Abbey Road doesn't rock? What the heck are you listening to? The only song I don't really care for is Maxwell, but Abbey Road rocks more than WTB. And how could you vote against "Something"? JCV
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Post by John S. Damm on Jun 17, 2010 13:31:22 GMT -5
ABBEY ROAD, Side 1I love, love, love the early stuff, but Abbey Road Side 1 is > than WTB. ;D And I can't believe you guys are saying Abbey Road doesn't rock? What the heck are you listening to? The only song I don't really care for is Maxwell, but Abbey Road rocks more than WTB. And how could you vote against "Something"? JCV "Oh! Darling" is meant to rock but it is merely a parody of or tribute to(depending on one's point of view)50's rock. It's like watching a Beatles' tribute band: the music played is from The Beatles but it's not The Beatles. ;D
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wooltonian
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Post by wooltonian on Jun 17, 2010 13:44:36 GMT -5
"Oh! Darling" is meant to rock but it is merely a parody of or tribute to(depending on one's point of view)50's rock. It's like watching a Beatles' tribute band: the music played is from The Beatles but it's not The Beatles. ;D I preferred the direction they were going with the song during the 'Let it be' sessions (as appears on Anthology III). It was looser and more spontaneous. By the time it was recorded for Abbey Road it had been polished up and given production gloss and overdubs. It's the worst of both worlds -- pastiche without feeling.
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Post by stavros on Jun 17, 2010 14:46:48 GMT -5
20 years ago I'd have said AR1 with no doubt. I was much more a fan of Beatles post '65 than the early stuff. I never grew up with the Beatles as a working band so the whole catalogue was already out by the time I was paying attention. I do love Abbey Road for it's polished production.
But it's strange how you can listen to something you are so familiar with and then change your mind about it. 'Come Together' used to be a song I liked but that has turned to a slight boredom with it. 'Something' I still enjoy I think George wrote the two best songs on this album. "Maxwell..." is a song that would have graced the Yellow Submarine album. "Oh Darling" would have been good if John had sang it (even just a verse). But in fairness Paul puts in a good performance. Ringo's best Beatles song is arguably the worst track here. "I Want You" is great and is a direction the Beatles may have taken had they stayed together.
As for WTB2 it is full of energy and is almost a nod back to a very different era but I would not put one of those tracks in my top 100 Beatles songs. So Abbey Road 1 it is.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jun 17, 2010 15:06:09 GMT -5
"Oh! Darling" is meant to rock but it is merely a parody of or tribute to(depending on one's point of view)50's rock. It's like watching a Beatles' tribute band: the music played is from The Beatles but it's not The Beatles. ;D I preferred the direction they were going with the song during the 'Let it be' sessions (as appears on Anthology III). It was looser and more spontaneous. By the time it was recorded for Abbey Road it had been polished up and given production gloss and overdubs. It's the worst of both worlds -- pastiche without feeling. Good point as I love the Anthology III version. Sure, that is a pretty loose version but there are times in it when Paul and John nail it with their singing in harmony. It has an almost mournful feel which I like.
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Post by vectisfabber on Jun 17, 2010 15:42:44 GMT -5
AR1
No contest. Not even close.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Jun 17, 2010 16:40:12 GMT -5
I have to go with WTB. The energy there is incredible for an album so early in their career.
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Post by theman on Jun 17, 2010 20:52:18 GMT -5
Abbey Road is my favorite Beatles album, so I cannot vote against either side of it. That is all.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2010 3:37:30 GMT -5
Something I still enjoy, I think George wrote the two best songs on this album. Thats the real reason The Beatles broke up.....John and Paul didn't want to be upstaged by George,i think they feared a couple of albums down the track they'd be singing songs George had written for them...a real role reversal... ;D
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jun 18, 2010 6:05:28 GMT -5
I must say I'm amazed at what seems like a lack of appreciation for OH!DARLING ... it's a great rocker, and Paul's voice is incredible! It's one of the most powerful and gut-wrenching vocals he's ever committed to tape. A first-class R-O-C-K-E-R (c'mon, JSD!).
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Post by RockoRoll on Jun 18, 2010 9:46:57 GMT -5
ABBEY ROAD, Side 1
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Post by scousette on Jun 18, 2010 10:32:39 GMT -5
ABBEY ROAD, Side 1I love, love, love the early stuff, but Abbey Road Side 1 is > than WTB. ;D And I can't believe you guys are saying Abbey Road doesn't rock? What the heck are you listening to? The only song I don't really care for is Maxwell, but Abbey Road rocks more than WTB. And how could you vote against "Something"? JCV Ya talkin' ta me, JCV? ;D I know, sacrilege!
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Post by John S. Damm on Jun 18, 2010 11:05:58 GMT -5
ABBEY ROAD, Side 1I love, love, love the early stuff, but Abbey Road Side 1 is > than WTB. ;D And I can't believe you guys are saying Abbey Road doesn't rock? What the heck are you listening to? The only song I don't really care for is Maxwell, but Abbey Road rocks more than WTB. And how could you vote against "Something"? JCV Ya talkin' ta me, JCV? ;D I know, sacrilege! Chick, er, woman fight! ;D We haven't had one of those on Steve's new Board although they happened all the time on his old one! This is interesting as who would have dreamed WTB would be giving AR a run on either side!
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Post by joeyself on Jun 18, 2010 11:15:58 GMT -5
Ya talkin' ta me, JCV? ;D I know, sacrilege! Chick, er, woman fight! ;D We haven't had one of those on Steve's new Board although they happened all the time on his old one! This is interesting as who would have dreamed WTB would be giving AR a run on either side! Well, from what I've read here, WTB 1 might beat AR 1, and IF WTB 1 survives its match in the first round, I may just set it up to see! (Assuming AR 1 wins, that is, and with 18 votes in, it's still not decided--I've not voted yet) JcS
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JCV
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Post by JCV on Jun 18, 2010 12:21:57 GMT -5
Ya talkin' ta me, JCV? ;D I know, sacrilege! Chick, er, woman fight! ;D We haven't had one of those on Steve's new Board although they happened all the time on his old one! This is interesting as who would have dreamed WTB would be giving AR a run on either side! Don't count your chickens just yet, there, JSD. JCV
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Post by theman on Jun 18, 2010 12:48:38 GMT -5
Something I still enjoy, I think George wrote the two best songs on this album. Thats the real reason The Beatles broke up.....John and Paul didn't want to be upstaged by George,i think they feared a couple of albums down the track they'd be singing songs George had written for them...a real role reversal... ;D Yeah, imagine a mid 70s Beatles where George brings four or five quality songs to the table for each album. Of course, it just would have never worked and that is why I've always been kinda glad they broke up. But then, I've always felt the solo Beatles have never--and were never--going to receive the respect they deserved.
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