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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 15, 2012 15:09:34 GMT -5
Nice post ladyfalcon! I think we have actually discussed this more civilly than possible on a Beatles Board! It was such a senseless killing(as if there is one that makes sense although I think of MikeV's example of the guy walking in to see his child daughter being raped!). John's murder took a happy song and made it worse. It put an ugly exclamation mark on a mostly(not entirely) happy story about the Beatles and its members. It stopped "what could have been" and left us fans with a bleaker, narrower future in terms of this thing that has obviously captivated all of us. Fairy tales in the end are a lie and this murder drove that home to us fans. For John's family, all of them from nuclear family to extended, it was an even worse nightmare that has repercussions for them to this very day. No matter where any of us are politically, philosophically or spiritually, what would any of us do if suddenly thrust face-to-face with the killer? I think we would be left simply asking, with tears in our eyes, "Why!?" None of us want to give into hate or else we become like him. No, I'd shake my head in disgust/pity and walk away from him. He is like Gollum from Lord Of The Rings; his humanity died long ago and he is this other being who must walk alone and isolated in dark places. Maybe he should be let free to go find his cave to wallow in loneliness and despair! Right now he is still the center of attention in his penal world.
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Post by vectisfabber on Jul 16, 2012 3:58:21 GMT -5
If God has forgiven him, he shouldn't mind spending the rest of his life in prison, should he?
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 18, 2012 12:57:30 GMT -5
Am I this only one on the board that says FRY THAT GUY!!??
And while we're at, fry Charles Manson. And fry Phil Spector, too. Can anyone tell me what is being served by keeping someone like Charles Manson alive and well for 50 years at the tax-payers expense? To rehabilitate him??
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 18, 2012 16:18:24 GMT -5
Am I this only one on the board that says FRY THAT GUY!!?? And while we're at, fry Charles Manson. And fry Phil Spector, too. Can anyone tell me what is being served by keeping someone like Charles Manson alive and well for 50 years at the tax-payers expense? To rehabilitate him?? I don't think that you are the only one who would advocate the death penalty for MDC but that is not an option so there is no sense getting worked up about it. At this point, I just want to see him remain incarcerated for the rest of his life.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jul 18, 2012 17:27:21 GMT -5
I don't think that you are the only one who would advocate the death penalty for MDC but that is not an option so there is no sense getting worked up about it. At this point, I just want to see him remain incarcerated for the rest of his life. Yeah, except he's in comfy security for his own protection and -- at least as far as prisons go -- is living the Life Of Riley for someone who is "paying a price". I wouldn't mind him being released if someone would pull a Jeffrey Dahmer on him and he met a just end. Dahmer's in-house demise at the hands of another inmate was the best case of justice I've ever seen for a killer.
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Post by John S. Damm on Aug 18, 2012 15:35:26 GMT -5
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Post by ladyfalcon on Aug 18, 2012 15:58:32 GMT -5
Thanks John S.Damm for posting this news update here.I agree that cowardly John's killer does have a smugness in his answers.Here is a direct link again to the New York State Parole boards web site.For anyone else that still wants to submit a e mail letter of opposition to him getting paroled. Summit online a letter of opposition to John Lennon's Killer getting paroled.You must put in his DIN (Department Identification Number) 81A3860 of the inmate on all letters and E mails. www.parole.ny.gov/letters.html
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Post by debjorgo on Aug 18, 2012 16:47:06 GMT -5
Chapman seems a little calculating, 'I killed Lennon to become somebody, Murderers are nobodies. Without Jesus Christ I would be an even bigger nobody'.
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Post by John S. Damm on Aug 18, 2012 17:52:58 GMT -5
Chapman seems a little calculating, 'I killed Lennon to become somebody, Murderers are nobodies. Without Jesus Christ I would be an even bigger nobody'. Exactly! He does seem calculating and at the least he's saying what he thinks the Board wants to hear not what is in his heart IMO. Just looking at recent photos of him, I don't like what I see. I think he is still a danger to society.
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Post by mikev on Aug 18, 2012 19:46:39 GMT -5
Chapman seems a little calculating, 'I killed Lennon to become somebody, Murderers are nobodies. Without Jesus Christ I would be an even bigger nobody'. Exactly! He does seem calculating and at the least he's saying what he thinks the Board wants to hear not what is in his heart IMO. Just looking at recent photos of him, I don't like what I see. I think he is still a danger to society. Of course he is still a danger! He won't get out.
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Post by debjorgo on Aug 18, 2012 20:25:58 GMT -5
Exactly! He does seem calculating and at the least he's saying what he thinks the Board wants to hear not what is in his heart IMO. Just looking at recent photos of him, I don't like what I see. I think he is still a danger to society. Of course he is still a danger! He won't get out. Just think how famous you would be if you killed him.
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andyb
Very Clean
Posts: 878
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Post by andyb on Aug 19, 2012 10:42:26 GMT -5
Of course he is still a danger! He won't get out. Just think how famous you would be if you killed him. Try and make it coincide with your next album release for maximum exposure.
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Post by Panther on Aug 20, 2012 3:59:12 GMT -5
I'm not trying to defend the killer, but some of you might do well to remember that armchair psychology is not professionally respected. At the end of the day, none of us is in a position to decide whether a guy is ready to be paroled or not, based on a few comments we read on a blog or whatever.
Let the most qualified people decide, and accept their decision.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2012 5:28:06 GMT -5
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Post by John S. Damm on Aug 20, 2012 8:04:46 GMT -5
I'm not trying to defend the killer, but some of you might do well to remember that armchair psychology is not professionally respected. At the end of the day, none of us is in a position to decide whether a guy is ready to be paroled or not, based on a few comments we read on a blog or whatever. Let the most qualified people decide, and accept their decision. The New York State Parole Board will make that decision and those members are appointed by the Governor of the State. Here is a list of the Parole Board members although their individual qualifications or professions are not listed: www.parole.ny.gov/introboardmembers.htmlThe Board can have up to 19 members but there are five vacant seats right now. Three members just came on in June Here is the Parole Board Interview Calendar link for August 2012 Parole interviews with prisoners whose last name begins with "C": 161.11.133.89/ParoleBoardCalendar/interviews.asp?name=C&year=2012&month=08
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cosmo
Very Clean
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Post by cosmo on Aug 20, 2012 18:44:00 GMT -5
I'm not trying to defend the killer, but some of you might do well to remember that armchair psychology is not professionally respected. At the end of the day, none of us is in a position to decide whether a guy is ready to be paroled or not, based on a few comments we read on a blog or whatever. Let the most qualified people decide, and accept their decision. No armchair psychology from me...I'm not really interested in whether he is rehabilitated or not. He took John's life, and I want him to stay in jail for the rest of his life as punishment.
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Post by Panther on Aug 20, 2012 22:42:11 GMT -5
I'm not really interested in whether he is rehabilitated or not. He took John's life, and I want him to stay in jail for the rest of his life as punishment. Out of curiosity, how do you feel about comparable victims of murder (and their killers) who aren't John Lennon?
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Aug 21, 2012 6:23:37 GMT -5
I'm not really interested in whether he is rehabilitated or not. He took John's life, and I want him to stay in jail for the rest of his life as punishment. Out of curiosity, how do you feel about comparable victims of murder (and their killers) who aren't John Lennon? You didn't ask me, but I'd like to address that. Personally, I am consistent in echoing cosmo's feelings ... this goes for ANY life taken, be the victim John Lennon or anyone else. (Even you). However, let's be realistic and admit that the death of a world figure that meant so much to billions of people (like Lennon) obviously affects more people when they're murdered.
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Post by Panther on Aug 21, 2012 8:32:23 GMT -5
Personally, I am consistent in echoing cosmo's feelings ... this goes for ANY life taken, be the victim John Lennon or anyone else. (Even you). I perhaps misunderstood Cosmos. He seemed to be saying that "he took John's life" -- not that of someone anonymous -- and therefore he should be punished more. However, let's be realistic and admit that the death of a world figure that meant so much to billions of people (like Lennon) obviously affects more people when they're murdered. You don't need to qualify it with "let's be realistic" -- what you're saying is obvious. Of course, how famous someone was should not affect the punishment of the criminal involved.
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cosmo
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Post by cosmo on Aug 21, 2012 16:22:46 GMT -5
I'm not really interested in whether he is rehabilitated or not. He took John's life, and I want him to stay in jail for the rest of his life as punishment. Out of curiosity, how do you feel about comparable victims of murder (and their killers) who aren't John Lennon? I'm a she ;D, and yes, I believe that any person who kills another (esp. with premeditation) should spend the rest of his/her life behind bars. Even if MDC had only taken John from Sean, he should have to pay by forfeiting his freedom.
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Post by acebackwords on Aug 21, 2012 16:35:55 GMT -5
Personally, I am consistent in echoing cosmo's feelings ... this goes for ANY life taken, be the victim John Lennon or anyone else. (Even you). I perhaps misunderstood Cosmos. He seemed to be saying that "he took John's life" -- not that of someone anonymous -- and therefore he should be punished more. However, let's be realistic and admit that the death of a world figure that meant so much to billions of people (like Lennon) obviously affects more people when they're murdered. You don't need to qualify it with "let's be realistic" -- what you're saying is obvious. Of course, how famous someone was should not affect the punishment of the criminal involved. I said it before, I'll say it again. If they had just fried that worthless bag of protoplasm in the first place we wouldn't even have to be going through this ridiculous discussion. Myself? I've been involved in two different murder trials via association with the victims. One of them, this piece of garbage tried to rape this 18 year old Deadhead chick. When her boyfriend tried to intervene he put two bullets in their heads and dumped their bodies in the Bay. I went to the trial. Saw the parents of the two kids sitting there at the trial every day. The guy was found guilty, sentenced to prison. But here's the kicker. 20 years later some slimey lawyer came up with some bullshit technicality and actually won a re-trial for the guy. So now we've got to go through this all over again. At a cost of godknows millions (?) of dollars at the taxpayers expense. For this farce. For this pointless farce.
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Post by Panther on Aug 21, 2012 22:55:28 GMT -5
Acebackwards, of course it is a farce in the specific case you bring up.
But the legal system -- flawed as any on earth will inevitably be -- is not a 100% satisfaction-guaranteed consumer item. It's the result of hundreds of years of cultural growth, legal development, sacrifices made on behalf of human rights, workers' rights, women's rights, etc. In some ways, the legal system is the sum of our human rights achievements as a people. That's why, although it's difficult at the individual level, we can't simply "fry" every person who does something that offends us personally.
The system is more important than the individual's emotions.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Aug 21, 2012 23:16:03 GMT -5
I don't think he's going anywhere. For his own safety.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Aug 21, 2012 23:33:46 GMT -5
This is what we lost thanks to that animal. May he rot in prison for another 40 years. Then when he is finally dead he'll get his true judgement on his crime. Attachments:
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Post by John S. Damm on Aug 22, 2012 12:29:39 GMT -5
There is no decision listed yet on the Parole Board website. This made headlines last week but I have seen nothing this week yet.
For instance, was the killer interviewed yesterday as earlier speculated?
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Post by acebackwords on Aug 22, 2012 13:23:17 GMT -5
Acebackwards, of course it is a farce in the specific case you bring up. But the legal system -- flawed as any on earth will inevitably be -- is not a 100% satisfaction-guaranteed consumer item. It's the result of hundreds of years of cultural growth, legal development, sacrifices made on behalf of human rights, workers' rights, women's rights, etc. In some ways, the legal system is the sum of our human rights achievements as a people. That's why, although it's difficult at the individual level, we can't simply "fry" every person who does something that offends us personally. The system is more important than the individual's emotions. Well sure, we can't "fry every person who does something that offends us" (good thing I'm not king). But to me, there are some crimes, like murder, that are so heinous, the person forfeits their right to exist in this society. Was reading in the USA TODAY yesterday this big article about the victims of the Aurora, Colorado shooting -- Where Are They One Month Later? The ammount of suffering this guy caused, the number of lives he just ruined, its mind-boggling. What is the point of "punishing" such a person? What is the point of trying to "rehabilitate" such a person? What is the point of keeping him alive for 50 years at the tax-payers expense? In my opinion he should just be put to sleep, as quickly and painlessly as possible.
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andyb
Very Clean
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Post by andyb on Aug 22, 2012 13:27:45 GMT -5
Then when he is finally dead he'll get his true judgement on his crime. I thought he was a believer, turned to, has accepted or been saved by God, so doesn't that mean he's ok?
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Aug 22, 2012 23:30:53 GMT -5
Then when he is finally dead he'll get his true judgement on his crime. I thought he was a believer, turned to, has accepted or been saved by God, so doesn't that mean he's ok? Well then, by all means, let's parole him, and while we're at it, just give him Paul & Ringo's addresses and some pocket money for airfare, so he can finish up the job and then ask forgiveness once again....
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Post by mikev on Aug 23, 2012 3:59:56 GMT -5
I thought he was a believer, turned to, has accepted or been saved by God, so doesn't that mean he's ok? Well then, by all means, let's parole him, and while we're at it, just give him Paul & Ringo's addresses and some pocket money for airfare, so he can finish up the job and then ask forgiveness once again.... I think AndyB is being sarcastic.
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andyb
Very Clean
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Post by andyb on Aug 23, 2012 4:45:34 GMT -5
Kind of Mike but being sarcastic wasn't my aim.
I was trying to make the point that if he believes in God and the Bible, which says the only way you won't get into Heaven is by not believing in God, then he'll be going to heaven because he believes.
No further judgement required.
Personally I think it is perhaps best that he doesn't get out.
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