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Post by vectisfabber on Aug 22, 2012 10:17:21 GMT -5
I ventured the opinion that I suspected that John, as an adult, had few friends. No-one bit!
Not that I was dangling it as bait - it was something which, given the Dylan comment, suddenly occurred to me: the school/youth friends are well known, there are the other 3 Beatles, and then...
It strikes me that his friendships were few but very deep.
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Post by mikev on Aug 22, 2012 11:53:13 GMT -5
I ventured the opinion that I suspected that John, as an adult, had few friends. No-one bit! Not that I was dangling it as bait - it was something which, given the Dylan comment, suddenly occurred to me: the school/youth friends are well known, there are the other 3 Beatles, and then... It strikes me that his friendships were few but very deep. He was supposedly pretty tight in later years with the late Peter Boyle aka The Young Frankenstein Monster/Frank Barone
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andyb
Very Clean
Posts: 878
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Post by andyb on Aug 22, 2012 12:58:28 GMT -5
I ventured the opinion that I suspected that John, as an adult, had few friends. No-one bit! Not that I was dangling it as bait - it was something which, given the Dylan comment, suddenly occurred to me: the school/youth friends are well known, there are the other 3 Beatles, and then... It strikes me that his friendships were few but very deep. Becoming so famous by the age of 22/23 that meeting people on normal terms was rare. So it doesn't surprise me.
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Post by acebackwords on Aug 22, 2012 13:28:24 GMT -5
I ventured the opinion that I suspected that John, as an adult, had few friends. No-one bit! Not that I was dangling it as bait - it was something which, given the Dylan comment, suddenly occurred to me: the school/youth friends are well known, there are the other 3 Beatles, and then... It strikes me that his friendships were few but very deep. Fred Seaman quotes John as saying he didn't have any friends, didn't believe in the concept of friendship, that all relationships were based on mutual self-using. He claimed the last real friend he had was Paul, and that he had been so burned by the relationship, by Paul's "betrayal," that it soured him on the whole idea of friendship. Seemed like in his last years, aside from Yoko (who he considered his best friend as well as his mate) he was mostly just surrounded by paid servants, or "sychophants and slaves" as he called them. Many people who tried to befriend John noted that he demanded total loyalty but didn't recipricate that loyalty. They way he completely cut Cynthia out of his life virtually overnight shows how ruthless John could be in the relationship department. The one guy John seemed most fond of all his life was Pete Shotton. But Yoko discouraged the relationship, considering Pete a bad influence on John.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Aug 22, 2012 17:16:51 GMT -5
Fred Seaman quotes John as saying he didn't have any friends, didn't believe in the concept of friendship, that all relationships were based on mutual self-using. Talking about using people, Fred Semen did okay using John's diaries and making a book off his death. Fred was a convicted thief. We know everything we'll ever need to know about John Lennon from John Lennon himself. If you believe that.
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Post by nicole21290 on Aug 22, 2012 18:20:18 GMT -5
Everyone claims they were John's friend and I sometimes feel like his 'openness' in that regard is one of the best barriers to true knowledge of his person that there was. Paul's spoken many times of his 'lovely suit of armor' he wore, his defenses (often humor, bravado and wit) which allowed people to feel close and intimate to him without really making that true connection that he had with people like Yoko and Paul. It makes me think of Pete Townshend when he discussed the difference between them in terms of interaction:
I had an incredible conversation once with Paul McCartney. The difference between the way Lennon and McCartney behave with the people that are around them is incredible. What Lennon does is he sits down, immediately acknowledges the fact that he’s John Lennon and that everything for the rest of the night is going to revolve around him. He completely relaxes and let’s everybody feel at ease and just speaks dribble little jokes, little rubbish like he’s got, In His Own Write and little things. Like he’ll start to dribble on and get stoned and do silly things and generally have a good time. Of course everybody gets into his thing and also has a generally good time.
But Paul McCartney worries, he wants a genuine conversation, a genuine relationship, starting off from square one: “We’ve got to get it straight that we both know where we’re both at before we begin.” One of them is fucking Paul McCartney, a Beatle, the other one is me, a huge monumental Beatle fan who still gets a kick out of sitting and talking to Paul McCartney. And he’s starting to tell me that he digs me and that we’re on an even par so that we can begin the conversation which completely makes me even a bigger fan. That’s all it serves to do. The conversation comes to no purpose and all he serves to do is to confuse himself. He’s trying to say, “Oh, you know, you know where you’re at. I know where I’m at, we’re both really just us and let’s talk.” So what do you say? “I’m a fantastic fan of yours, man.” He really tries to get it together often and you’ve got to relax, you’ve got to take people...
This is a relevant quote from Sean Lennon that I adore: Of Paul McCartney he says, 'I’m just so excited when I’m around him. It’s like when you see a white buffalo and you just hold your breath – you’re just hoping that it’s not going to end. Because,’ he adds quietly, 'it’s the closest I can come to hanging out with my dad. Every second I’ve ever spent with Paul has been really meaningful to me. He was my dad’s best mate for a long time. And my dad didn’t have many friends, you know?’
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Post by sayne on Aug 22, 2012 21:20:36 GMT -5
I'll nominate Harry Niilson as a friend.
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Post by mikev on Aug 23, 2012 4:04:57 GMT -5
I'll nominate Harry Niilson as a friend. with friends like Harry...who needs enemies ;D I love Harry's music, but when he hooked up with John... I do wonder how much he hung out with Harry AFTER he was back with Yoko.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Aug 23, 2012 5:09:31 GMT -5
I do wonder how much he hung out with Harry AFTER he was back with Yoko. Probably not much. John was one of those types of guys who was all into the wife, and didn't have any need for hanging with the boys anymore when he was with her.
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Post by acebackwords on Aug 23, 2012 18:37:38 GMT -5
I'll nominate Harry Niilson as a friend. Paul had a line, something along the line of: "People that went out drinking with John thought they were seeing the real John. But John was always on the surface."
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Post by acebackwords on Aug 23, 2012 18:43:11 GMT -5
I suspect John had three best friends:
Pete Shotton (about 1950 to 1968) Paul McCartney (1957 to 1970) Yoko Ono (1968 to 1980)
Pete had a line about how John was the most individualistic person he ever met, and yet ironically, he always needed a partner.
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Post by sayne on Aug 23, 2012 20:58:52 GMT -5
Although I don't know if they had STEADY contact, I suppose he would have considered Klaus and Astrid to be his friends.
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Post by Panther on Aug 27, 2012 22:49:21 GMT -5
In the American-English sense, John did have several mates: Cynthia, a dozen Liverpudlian 'birds', Maureen Cleave, Yoko, Stuart Sutcliffe (?)...
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Aug 28, 2012 9:31:19 GMT -5
In the American-English sense, John did have several mates: Cynthia, a dozen Liverpudlian 'birds', Maureen Cleave, Yoko, Stuart Sutcliffe (?)... Don't forget Brian Epstein.....
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Post by coachbk on Sept 8, 2012 19:43:55 GMT -5
I suspect John had three best friends: Pete Shotton (about 1950 to 1968) Paul McCartney (1957 to 1970) Yoko Ono (1968 to 1980) Pete had a line about how John was the most individualistic person he ever met, and yet ironically, he always needed a partner. You've got to add Stu to that list, even if it was for just a short time.
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