lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Mar 21, 2014 11:33:44 GMT -5
This photo was taken 50 years ago in 1964 in Central Park when The Beatles arrived in America to appear on The Ed Sullivan Show. The sad irony is; behind Paul's hands, through the trees, is The Dakota Apartment Building where 16 years later John would be murdered.
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Post by sayne on Mar 21, 2014 20:50:36 GMT -5
I don't know if they are out there, but I'd be looking for a photo of John holding a gun and Paul eating meat or wearing fur. What types of photos would you think would be ironic for George and Ringo? Maybe George holding a crucifix? Can't think of anything right now for Ringo? By ironic, I'm assuming that it's meaning here is something that belies what the lad would become known for. Oh, what about an angry Ringo, since he's so much about peace and love, now.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Mar 22, 2014 12:30:55 GMT -5
I don't know if they are out there, but I'd be looking for a photo of John holding a gun and Paul eating meat or wearing fur. What types of photos would you think would be ironic for George and Ringo? Maybe George holding a crucifix? Can't think of anything right now for Ringo? By ironic, I'm assuming that it's meaning here is something that belies what the lad would become known for. Oh, what about an angry Ringo, since he's so much about peace and love, now. Geez man, calm down. What has you so pissed off? It's a photo of three of The Beatles at the cusp of their world-fame, excited to be in America for the first time, the country that produced the music that inspired them to form their band. They are full of anticipation and exitement over their pending appearance on TV, and thrilled to have a #1 hit in America, a country that was very hard to succeed in when you came from the UK. and played Rock & Roll. And it just so happened they were standing and posing so that the very location that would 16 years later tragically end one of their lives, and forever end any possiblity of a reunion of the band considered by many to be the greatest rock group of all time, was in the background looming through a clump of trees and somewhat framed by Paul's hand gesture. You don't find that sadly ironic? Then take the photo for what it is. But don't infer I meant anything other than what I said. I was not inferring anything along the lines that it implied something John would become known for. You have some hang ups man. Don't put them on me.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Mar 22, 2014 12:31:33 GMT -5
I don't know if they are out there, but I'd be looking for a photo of John holding a gun and Paul eating meat or wearing fur. What types of photos would you think would be ironic for George and Ringo? Maybe George holding a crucifix? Can't think of anything right now for Ringo? By ironic, I'm assuming that it's meaning here is something that belies what the lad would become known for. Oh, what about an angry Ringo, since he's so much about peace and love, now. Geez man, calm down. What has you so pissed off? It's a photo of three of The Beatles at the cusp of their world-fame, excited to be in America for the first time, the country that produced the music that inspired them to form their band. They are full of anticipation and excitement over their pending appearance on TV, and thrilled to have a #1 hit in America, a country that was very hard to succeed in when you came from the UK. and played Rock & Roll. And it just so happened they were standing and posing so that the very location that would 16 years later tragically end one of their lives, and forever end any possiblity of a reunion of the band considered by many to be the greatest rock group of all time, was in the background looming through a clump of trees and somewhat framed by Paul's hand gesture. You don't find that sadly ironic? Then take the photo for what it is. But don't infer I meant anything other than what I said. I was not inferring anything along the lines that it implied something John would become known for. You have some hang ups man. Don't put them on me.
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Post by sayne on Mar 22, 2014 23:47:17 GMT -5
I don't know if they are out there, but I'd be looking for a photo of John holding a gun and Paul eating meat or wearing fur. What types of photos would you think would be ironic for George and Ringo? Maybe George holding a crucifix? Can't think of anything right now for Ringo? By ironic, I'm assuming that it's meaning here is something that belies what the lad would become known for. Oh, what about an angry Ringo, since he's so much about peace and love, now. Geez man, calm down. What has you so pissed off? It's a photo of three of The Beatles at the cusp of their world-fame, excited to be in America for the first time, the country that produced the music that inspired them to form their band. They are full of anticipation and exitement over their pending appearance on TV, and thrilled to have a #1 hit in America, a country that was very hard to succeed in when you came from the UK. and played Rock & Roll. And it just so happened they were standing and posing so that the very location that would 16 years later tragically end one of their lives, and forever end any possiblity of a reunion of the band considered by many to be the greatest rock group of all time, was in the background looming through a clump of trees and somewhat framed by Paul's hand gesture. You don't find that sadly ironic? Then take the photo for what it is. But don't infer I meant anything other than what I said. I was not inferring anything along the lines that it implied something John would become known for. You have some hang ups man. Don't put them on me. I thought I was playing along with the topic of irony. With your photo, you had the happy lads in front of a place that would become a sad place. A time and place of an optimistic and bright future, which years later would be the site of the end of that optimism. I got that. So, in my mind, a photo of one of them a certain way or doing a certain something early in life that would be opposite of what they would become, to me, would be ironic. Maybe the picture of John in army gear from the movie "How I Won the War" could be seen as ironic since he became such a proponent of non-violence. Or, maybe that photo of John with Ronald Reagan could be seen as ironic. That's what I was getting at with my examples. I don't know what button I pushed on you, but I know I wasn't trying to push one. Maybe I didn't understand the rules. I wasn't meaning any criticism towards any of the boys, and no offense, but, to tell you the truth, I didn't even pay attention to the name of the person starting the thread. So, this was never about you, either. I think what happened was that you had a particular place that you thought this thread was going to go, and I added an interpretation that did not jibe with you. For some reason, you took that as a personal insult.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 23, 2014 6:21:29 GMT -5
I don't know if they are out there, but I'd be looking for a photo of John holding a gun and Paul eating meat or wearing fur. Last year Paul was on one of the newer TV shows (can't recall now if it was Fallon, Kimble, or Colbert) and the host held up an old 1964 Beatles bubblegum card which showed Beatles' favorites and statistics on the back. He showed where Paul had chosen his favorite food as a young man, and it was "Roast Beef". He jokingly asked Paul about that, and Paul joked back: "What can I say? I was a bad person".
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 23, 2014 6:25:46 GMT -5
This photo was taken 50 years ago in 1964 in Central Park when The Beatles arrived in America to appear on The Ed Sullivan Show. The sad irony is; behind Paul's hands, through the trees, is The Dakota Apartment Building where 16 years later John would be murdered. I knew exactly what you meant and, yes, I've always felt this was a creepy irony. And John standing there has no idea that one day he will live in that building and die outside it -- how could he? But man, what a weird irony.
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Post by mikev on Mar 23, 2014 7:07:55 GMT -5
I don't know if they are out there, but I'd be looking for a photo of John holding a gun and Paul eating meat or wearing fur. Last year Paul was on one of the newer TV shows (can't recall now if it was Fallon, Kimble, or Colbert) and the host held up an old 1964 Beatles bubblegum card which showed Beatles' favorites and statistics on the back. He showed where Paul had chosen his favorite food as a young man, and it was "Roast Beef". He jokingly asked Paul about that, and Paul joked back: "What can I say? I was a bad person". Even in the early 80s, Paul wore a leather jacket in Give My Regards to Broad Street.
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Post by mikev on Mar 23, 2014 7:12:58 GMT -5
...and Paul was at a Nets game and previously some Yankee games, where the ball is made of leather. Okay...I'm starting to go in a different direction here, but the original photo to me is pretty ironic, as NYC is pretty big...
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 23, 2014 9:22:34 GMT -5
... another sad and ironic thing about the photo of The Beatles in Central Park is that here they were at the start of Worldwide Adulation And Stardom in 1964 -- and it was this very stardom that would cost John Lennon his life, only 16 years later - just across the way. At this point, how could Lennon possibly imagine meeting a Japanese artist, getting re-located to New York City to actually live in the 1970s, and then to die there as well? Sometimes I imagine going through a time machine and bringing latter day proof back to show John. I wonder what people would have thought?
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Post by sayne on Mar 23, 2014 12:13:25 GMT -5
I don't know if they are out there, but I'd be looking for a photo of John holding a gun and Paul eating meat or wearing fur. Last year Paul was on one of the newer TV shows (can't recall now if it was Fallon, Kimble, or Colbert) and the host held up an old 1964 Beatles bubblegum card which showed Beatles' favorites and statistics on the back. He showed where Paul had chosen his favorite food as a young man, and it was "Roast Beef". He jokingly asked Paul about that, and Paul joked back: "What can I say? I was a bad person". I saw that. Yes, good call. That was ironic. Hope you don't get yelled at.
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Post by sayne on Mar 23, 2014 12:16:05 GMT -5
...and Paul was at a Nets game and previously some Yankee games, where the ball is made of leather. Okay...I'm starting to go in a different direction here, but the original photo to me is pretty ironic, as NYC is pretty big... If you don't get yelled at for having hang-ups, I'm going to cry "foul!"
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 23, 2014 12:48:28 GMT -5
Didn't Paul say something not terribly long ago about needing leather shoes, "until there's a way around it".
Of course he wears Chuck Taylors a lot now.
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Post by sayne on Mar 23, 2014 18:13:42 GMT -5
Didn't Paul say something not terribly long ago about needing leather shoes, "until there's a way around it". Of course he wears Chuck Taylors a lot now. Paul said, I think on Jimmy Kimmel, that he was a vegetarian, not a vegan. My guess is that if he can find good non-leather alternatives, he'd go for it. Leather, being a by-product because it is not usual for the animal to be killed JUST for the leather, often is worn by vegetarians. Vegans, of course would never do so.
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 23, 2014 21:44:41 GMT -5
That is an ironic photo. The Dakota is a sinister place.
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Post by mikev on Mar 23, 2014 22:02:42 GMT -5
...and Paul was at a Nets game and previously some Yankee games, where the ball is made of leather. Okay...I'm starting to go in a different direction here, but the original photo to me is pretty ironic, as NYC is pretty big... If you don't get yelled at for having hang-ups, I'm going to cry "foul!" I was being fully facetious. I heard on the radio the other day that the construction of lithium batteries for cars is as destructive to the environment as gasoline in cars. People can take a stand for or against anything they want, but the end is all the same.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Mar 24, 2014 12:45:17 GMT -5
Geez man, calm down. What has you so pissed off? It's a photo of three of The Beatles at the cusp of their world-fame, excited to be in America for the first time, the country that produced the music that inspired them to form their band. They are full of anticipation and exitement over their pending appearance on TV, and thrilled to have a #1 hit in America, a country that was very hard to succeed in when you came from the UK. and played Rock & Roll. And it just so happened they were standing and posing so that the very location that would 16 years later tragically end one of their lives, and forever end any possiblity of a reunion of the band considered by many to be the greatest rock group of all time, was in the background looming through a clump of trees and somewhat framed by Paul's hand gesture. You don't find that sadly ironic? Then take the photo for what it is. But don't infer I meant anything other than what I said. I was not inferring anything along the lines that it implied something John would become known for. You have some hang ups man. Don't put them on me. I thought I was playing along with the topic of irony. With your photo, you had the happy lads in front of a place that would become a sad place. A time and place of an optimistic and bright future, which years later would be the site of the end of that optimism. I got that. So, in my mind, a photo of one of them a certain way or doing a certain something early in life that would be opposite of what they would become, to me, would be ironic. Maybe the picture of John in army gear from the movie "How I Won the War" could be seen as ironic since he became such a proponent of non-violence. Or, maybe that photo of John with Ronald Reagan could be seen as ironic. That's what I was getting at with my examples. I don't know what button I pushed on you, but I know I wasn't trying to push one. Maybe I didn't understand the rules. I wasn't meaning any criticism towards any of the boys, and no offense, but, to tell you the truth, I didn't even pay attention to the name of the person starting the thread. So, this was never about you, either. I think what happened was that you had a particular place that you thought this thread was going to go, and I added an interpretation that did not jibe with you. For some reason, you took that as a personal insult. I simply posted a photo of the Beatles I thought carrried a great deal of irony within it, nothing more, nothing less. I had no particular place I was hoping the thread would go. I just made a statement along with the picture. As Joe pointed out in his remark, it is ironic that John is standing there so happy and excited he has brought his band to the point of world fame after 7 long years without the slightest incling of what that fame would ultimately cost him personally appearing behind him in the very same picture frame. Whether you realize it or not you do have a tendency to "push buttons" in some of your comments, and that one pushed mine. I take very seriously what happened to John and the fact that his fame was a part of that tragedy, so I felt being flippant in your comment definitely pushed a button in me. If that was not your intention, then the matter is closed. I apologize for over-reacting to your remark. I still stand by my opinion that this is the most ironic picture of The Beatles I have ever come across.
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Post by sayne on Mar 24, 2014 22:01:06 GMT -5
If you don't get yelled at for having hang-ups, I'm going to cry "foul!" I was being fully facetious. Yes, I know. I was going with it as though it was serious.
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Post by sayne on Mar 24, 2014 22:16:51 GMT -5
. . . Whether you realize it or not you do have a tendency to "push buttons" in some of your comments . . . If that was not your intention, then the matter is closed. I apologize for over-reacting to your remark. I still stand by my opinion that this is the most ironic picture of The Beatles I have ever come across. Okay. The matter is closed. I accept your apology. I was never intending to question your assertion about the photo. I was not even meaning to be flippant by suggesting other photos which are ironic. I simply thought that we could find others - some sadly ironic and others humorously ironic.
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 24, 2014 22:39:15 GMT -5
I know what sayne means. I was searching pictures of George Harrison, maybe for scousette's birthday Thread, and I came across one where maybe George is holding one of those Elvis cowboy guns to Ringo or vice versa and the first thing I thought was, "Oh, that is not funny based on the much subsequent murder of John Lennon!" I am not being mean or facetious, just noting the terrible irony of two Beatles pretending to shoot each other in jest then years later John is murdered with a handgun.
And lowbasso, you make a good point about the picture in question, with the Dakota in the background at a time, 1964, when someday living in NYC and the fateful year 1980 were not even in John's mind(how could they be) as he, Paul and Ringo triumphantly walk through parts of Central Park.
I am listening to the amazing John Lennon Anthology(about as perfect a comp as we will ever get from our heroes although no comp will please ever finicky Beatles fan!) and in one of the "John and Phil" studio chatter tracks on Disc 3, Elton John comes up and John says Elton will die young but John himself will grow old to be a 90 year old guru! I really thought that ironic and sad. John died young and Elton grew old and boring! We know John Lennon would have traded places with EJ any day!
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Post by mikev on Mar 25, 2014 7:08:54 GMT -5
I was being fully facetious. Yes, I know. I was going with it as though it was serious. Wasn't sure if the word "foul" was a word play on the two sports...
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Post by mikev on Mar 25, 2014 7:09:57 GMT -5
and the biggest irony of all is the beginning of Come Together...
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