|
Post by sayne on Dec 4, 2015 1:44:59 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Dec 4, 2015 9:45:11 GMT -5
Wow, so it is already Rubber Soul's turn to get the 50th anniversary treatment! I do take massive exception to the following portion of the WSJ article: "Whatever Dexter’s shortcomings, the Beatles albums he programmed for Capitol are the ones American teens heard and loved. As for “Rubber Soul,” it may have been his greatest achievement, turning an unfocused album into a taut acoustic story of self-awareness and romantic confusion. It also provided millions in the U.S. with their first gentle glimpse of adulthood."I first heard and grew up with the U.S. Rubber Soul although thanks to The Beatles: An Illustrated Record, I was familiar at least in print with the version The Beatles themselves recorded and assembled. I bought the U.K. version in law school around 1985 and then with the 1987 Beatles' CD releases, I never looked back. The U.K. RS became just the Rubber Soul to me forever. I get the sentimental fondness for the U.S. RS simply because us Yanks grew up with it but Rubber Soul as released by The Beatles is a masterpiece and to advocate a RS without "Drive My Car," "Nowhere Man," "If I Needed Someone" and yes, even "What Goes On" seems silly and childish to me. We always praise the Beatles for moving forward with each recording. Yet that is not true with the U.S. albums as Capitol was putting "old" songs onto newer releases such as RS where older "HELP!" songs are placed on the newer RS. I must also say this here in response to the above quoted passage's reference to "Dexter's shortcomings." Dave Dexter Jr was an absolute bad guy in The Beatles' story as it pertains to their American legacy. The Beatles were forced on Dexter more than even George Martin(who came around and loved them) and Dexter did not even like The Beatles. Dexter attacked John Lennon in writing after John was murdered. That is unforgiveable in and of itself. But Dexter not only butchered the Beatles albums as released by the Beatles themselves but he vectised with their actual sound, the latter also unforgiveable. I can no longer listen to the U.S. "Dexterized" versions. An article knocking Dexter so I like it! www.elsewhere.co.nz/absoluteelsewhe...rd-the-beatles/
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Dec 4, 2015 18:09:09 GMT -5
As to the Esquire piece, I was about to go ballistic until I saw the writer was giving high praise to John Lennon's songs on RS and giving grief to Paul McCartney's, an extreme rarity these days in journalism where the opposite is the norm. But not to worry dear MMHs, this guy gives Paul his dues on Revolver which in no way diminishes John's stellar contributions there!
Anyway, the guy is all wet about RS. I'd say RS and Revolver are the Beatles highwater artistic peak, SPLHCB being a red herring or an example where the emperor had no clothes! What did my friend Keith Richards say about Pepper......
|
|
lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
|
Post by lowbasso on Dec 4, 2015 19:21:35 GMT -5
As to the Esquire piece, I was about to go ballistic until I saw the writer was giving high praise to John Lennon's songs on RS and giving grief to Paul McCartney's, an extreme rarity these days in journalism where the opposite is the norm. But not to worry dear MMHs, this guy gives Paul his dues on Revolver which in no way diminishes John's stellar contributions there! Anyway, the guy is all wet about RS. I'd say RS and Revolver are the Beatles highwater artistic peak, SPLHCB being a red herring or an example where the emperor had no clothes! What did my friend Keith Richards say about Pepper...... Let's not get into that again. Let sleeping dogs lie. I agree RS and Revolver were the best albums and summit of their output.
|
|
|
Post by Panther on Dec 4, 2015 20:37:54 GMT -5
"Whatever Dexter’s shortcomings, the Beatles albums he programmed for Capitol are the ones American teens heard and loved. As for “Rubber Soul,” it may have been his greatest achievement, turning an unfocused album into a taut acoustic story of self-awareness and romantic confusion. It also provided millions in the U.S. with their first gentle glimpse of adulthood." John, thanks for the laugh! So, by randomly deleting a few great tracks to save money, Dexter is now a genius who gave US teens their adulthood! This quote is a good example of why certain people should not be allowed to write or publish. One nice thing in Lewisohn's Tune In is that he's already laying into Dave Dexter Jr., and he hasn't even really entered The Beatles' story yet. I'm looking forward to Lewisohn ripping Dave a new one in Part II of that series.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 0:42:34 GMT -5
I'd rate Rubber Soul as possibly the Beatles 2nd best album, coming in a little way behind the Let It Be album.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Dec 5, 2015 1:48:19 GMT -5
As to the Esquire piece, I was about to go ballistic until I saw the writer was giving high praise to John Lennon's songs on RS and giving grief to Paul McCartney's, an extreme rarity these days in journalism where the opposite is the norm. But not to worry dear MMHs, this guy gives Paul his dues on Revolver which in no way diminishes John's stellar contributions there! Anyway, the guy is all wet about RS. I'd say RS and Revolver are the Beatles highwater artistic peak, SPLHCB being a red herring or an example where the emperor had no clothes! What did my friend Keith Richards say about Pepper...... Let's not get into that again. Let sleeping dogs lie. I agree RS and Revolver were the best albums and summit of their output. I was just joking lowbasso but that guy got me mad dissing Rubber Soul!
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Dec 5, 2015 1:53:23 GMT -5
I'd rate Rubber Soul as possibly the Beatles 2nd best album, coming in a little way behind the Let It Be album. So you like the Beatles last album best?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2015 5:31:50 GMT -5
I'd rate Rubber Soul as possibly the Beatles 2nd best album, coming in a little way behind the Let It Be album. So you like the Beatles last album best? Correct Statement JSD, On all counts.
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Dec 5, 2015 9:52:39 GMT -5
But Dexter not only butchered the Beatles albums as released by the Beatles themselves but he vectised with their actual sound, the latter also unforgiveable. What exactly do yo0u mean by the use of this expression "vectised", old sausage? It sounds suspiciously as if you are using this poor old Brit's internet cognomen in a disparaging fashion, in which case I'll have none of it, d'you hear? <grumpy emoticon followed by sunny wink emoticon>
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Dec 5, 2015 9:54:19 GMT -5
Explanation for anyone mystified - I was lucky enough to meet John during a visit to the States 2 years ago, and this is a private joke dating back to then! Attachments:
|
|
andyb
Very Clean
Posts: 878
|
Post by andyb on Dec 5, 2015 17:33:31 GMT -5
Explanation for anyone mystified - I was lucky enough to meet John during a visit to the States 2 years ago, and this is a private joke dating back to then! I got into The Beatles for the screaming girls and all that's left is old plump balding dudes like these two reprobates.
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Dec 5, 2015 21:20:17 GMT -5
You say that like I haven't met you, too.
|
|
|
Post by winstonoboogie on Dec 5, 2015 22:24:40 GMT -5
Explanation for anyone mystified - I was lucky enough to meet John during a visit to the States 2 years ago, and this is a private joke dating back to then! So who is whom?
|
|
|
Post by winstonoboogie on Dec 5, 2015 22:26:02 GMT -5
It wouldn't load.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 6, 2015 5:34:04 GMT -5
I'd rate Rubber Soul as possibly the Beatles 2nd best album, coming in a little way behind the Let It Be album. So you like the Beatles last album best? "Last album"? I didn't see ABBEY ROAD mentioned.
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Dec 6, 2015 5:35:29 GMT -5
Explanation for anyone mystified - I was lucky enough to meet John during a visit to the States 2 years ago, and this is a private joke dating back to then! So who is whom? One of us is the good looking one. Then there's the other one.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 5:58:41 GMT -5
So you like the Beatles last album best? "Last album"? I didn't see ABBEY ROAD mentioned. Correct Joe, he did mention last album, which wasn't Abbey Rd.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 6, 2015 5:59:27 GMT -5
I do take massive exception to the following portion of the WSJ article: "Whatever Dexter’s shortcomings, the Beatles albums he programmed for Capitol are the ones American teens heard and loved. As for “Rubber Soul,” it may have been his greatest achievement, turning an unfocused album into a taut acoustic story of self-awareness and romantic confusion. It also provided millions in the U.S. with their first gentle glimpse of adulthood."I first heard and grew up with the U.S. Rubber Soul although thanks to The Beatles: An Illustrated Record, I was familiar at least in print with the version The Beatles themselves recorded and assembled. I bought the U.K. version in law school around 1985 and then with the 1987 Beatles' CD releases, I never looked back. The U.K. RS became just the Rubber Soul to me forever. Oh, I can see this is going to be quite a donnybrook from here. I will defend the Capitol versions forever, because they're smartly done, and in many cases the sequencing is better than even what the Beatles intended (that's right, I said that). The UK version of RUBBER SOUL is tainted by misplaced songs like "What Goes On" and "Drive My Car", which don't seem to feel like they belong on such a record. It has now become quite a very popular opinion in Beatles Fandom (not shared by everyone, obviously) that both "I've Just Seen A Face" and "It's Only Love" greatly improve the record. Even though Paul and his fellow Beatles did not realize or "intend" it at the time, the glorious "ah, it's early morning, so let us open the curtains and let the sun shine in'' opening to "I've Just Seen A Face" seems tailor-made to introduce such an album. Too bad The Beatles themselves could not see it that way and instead buried it on the very mish-mashy HELP! LP. (At least they were smart enough to save "Wait" for RS, which likewise would have been odd on HELP!. What may be construed as silly and childish to me is automatically jumping to a pre-conceived accusation that instinctively suggests that people only enjoy the US RS if they had grown up with it. There have been fans I've heard from who never heard it that way while growing up, and have now since come to prefer the superior US version. In my case, I got myself familiarized primarily with all the UK versions of the LP's at a very early date, when I was around 16 in 1978. The UK versions were the ones I stuck with well into the 1990's when I was into my 30's. Back then I thought that just because "that's the way they were originally presented in England" meant I 'wasn't supposed to accept any other version'... and I also thought that the recordings had to be "squeaky clean-sounding". Since that time, somewhere around the 2000's or so, I realized there is no shame in preferring the US ALBUMS -- and I was thrilled to realize I was not alone. Songs really came alive on many of the US mixes, such as SOMETHING NEW, BEATLES '65, and THE BEATLES' SECOND ALBUM, with more balls-to-the-wall-sounding vibes than even The Beatles themselves could never seem to do. (Yup, I said that too!)... But it's okay that The Beatles saved "Wait" for RS, when in was recorded for HELP! -- hmmm? The joke is on bad guy Dexter, because he inadvertently boosted The Beatles' sound, and toughened and tightened them up! That's sad in a way, because I would think that your being a Stones fan would help you garner some appreciation for the US Albums' sound. I will also challenge the charge of the US "butchering" The Beatles (and yes, that also includes The Beatles charging the same) when we consider that at least the US managed to collect all of the stray singles and EPs, instead of fans having to own a variety of different size disc formats just to have it all. And let us remember that the song "Bad Boy" debuted on BEATLES VI -- it was a special for the US. Along with also salvaging "Yes It Is" from the UK B-Side land of forgotten songs. (And it also made coherence of the badly mish-mashed Side 2 of the UK HELP!). Knocking Dexter has now become very Yesterday. PS -- I wonder why JSD is not bashing Capitol's MAGICAL MSYTERY TOUR? They did precisely the same thing with that LP (taking songs from here and there and mixing them in), and now it has become the UK--and-universally-accepted staple for those songs! It finally came to realization that Capitol Knew Best! Or should we all just go around collecting various singles and the MMT Extended Play 2-discer -- "as The Beatles first intended" ...?
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 6, 2015 6:11:36 GMT -5
"Last album"? I didn't see ABBEY ROAD mentioned. Correct Joe, he did mention last album, which wasn't Abbey Rd. You need to inform Mark Lewisohn of that, then. He still thinks The Beatles' last recorded work was ABBEY ROAD. If you count some last-minute tweaking for the latter release of LET IT BE as the reason for being the last LP, then you'll also have to consistently own up and count THE BEATLES ANTHOLOGY as the "last Beatles album" .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 6:20:00 GMT -5
Correct Joe, he did mention last album, which wasn't Abbey Rd. You need to inform Mark Lewisohn of that, then. He still thinks The Beatles' last recorded work was ABBEY ROAD. If you count some last-minute tweaking for the latter release of LET IT BE as the reason for being the last LP, then you'll also have to consistently own up and count THE BEATLES ANTHOLOGY as the "last Beatles album" . Unfortunately Lewisohn is not a Beatles Bible, people constantly point out the inaccuracies of both his research and what he prints. He gives it his best but that is not quintessential. The Anthology is riddled with error, hardly a resource.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 6, 2015 6:21:02 GMT -5
So, by randomly deleting a few great tracks to save money, Dexter is now a genius who gave US teens their adulthood! This quote is a good example of why certain people should not be allowed to write or publish. Right, only when they agree with you, Panther, may they be allowed to write or publish. It's hilarious to me when I hear about "deleting a few tracks", when -- at the same time -- the US albums also did a great job of actually salvaging single A sides and B sides and collecting them onto cohesive LPs. I don't care if Lewisohn "rips into" Dexter; as a British person, I would at first expect no less from him. However, I think that from what I have learned of Mark, he seems fair and open-minded enough across the board not to diminish or completely ignore the value and importance of such US occurrences ... so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. He may well appreciate the importance of what happened in the US regarding the albums (MEET THE BEATLES, which kicked it off in America, is a classic that opens with "I Want To Hold Your Hand", and goes into "I Saw Her Standing There" and the forgotten B-Side "This Boy" -- and it's often considered superior to WITH THE BEATLES, even by fans who prefer the UK).
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 6, 2015 6:25:25 GMT -5
You need to inform Mark Lewisohn of that, then. He still thinks The Beatles' last recorded work was ABBEY ROAD. If you count some last-minute tweaking for the latter release of LET IT BE as the reason for being the last LP, then you'll also have to consistently own up and count THE BEATLES ANTHOLOGY as the "last Beatles album" . Unfortunately Lewisohn is not a Beatles Bible, people constantly point out the inaccuracies of both his research and what he prints. He gives it his best but that is not quintessential. The Anthology is riddled with error, hardly a resource. I would think that it would be a major inaccuracy then to point to ABBEY ROAD as being the last Beatles album when it was? Or do you count latter released LPs of earlier-recorded music like LIB (with some tweaking) as "the last work"? If so, then albums like RARITIES (1980) also may qualify as "The Last Beatles Album", along with ANTHOLOGY. The criteria is exactly the same as LET IT BE -- music recorded earlier on, but released last.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 6, 2015 6:26:24 GMT -5
So, by randomly deleting a few great tracks to save money, Dexter is now a genius who gave US teens their adulthood! This quote is a good example of why certain people should not be allowed to write or publish. Right, only when they agree with you, Panther, may they be allowed to write or publish. It's hilarious to me when I hear about "deleting a few tracks", when -- at the same time -- the US albums also did a great job of actually salvaging single A sides and B sides and collecting them onto cohesive LPs. I don't care if Lewisohn "rips into" Dexter; as Mark is a British person, I would at first expect no less from him. However, I think that from what I have learned of Mark, he seems fair and open-minded enough across the board not to diminish or completely ignore the value and importance of such US occurrences ... so I will give him the benefit of the doubt. He may well appreciate the importance of what happened in the US regarding the albums (MEET THE BEATLES, which kicked it off in America, is a classic that opens with "I Want To Hold Your Hand", and goes into "I Saw Her Standing There" and the forgotten B-Side "This Boy" -- and it's often considered superior to WITH THE BEATLES, even by fans who prefer the UK albums!).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 6:35:51 GMT -5
Unfortunately Lewisohn is not a Beatles Bible, people constantly point out the inaccuracies of both his research and what he prints. He gives it his best but that is not quintessential. The Anthology is riddled with error, hardly a resource. I would think that it would be a major inaccuracy then to point to ABBEY ROAD as being the last Beatles album when it was? Or do you count latter released LPs of earlier-recorded music like LIB (with some tweaking) as "the last work"? If so, then albums like RARITIES (1980) also may qualify as "The Last Beatles Album", along with ANTHOLOGY. The criteria is exactly the same as LET IT BE -- music recorded earlier on, but released last. If an album is released last when the Beatles were still together then it is their last album. Let It Be is that album. It is also the last album they worked on, before they split, never to get back together.
|
|
andyb
Very Clean
Posts: 878
|
Post by andyb on Dec 6, 2015 7:56:13 GMT -5
You say that like I haven't met you, too. True. I hope that's the last Poilce Station I see for a while.
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Dec 6, 2015 15:57:54 GMT -5
That was a night, that was.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 6, 2015 17:21:12 GMT -5
If an album is released last when the Beatles were still together then it is their last album. Let It Be is that album. It is also the last album they worked on, before they split, never to get back together. I understand your need to try and validate your personal favorite ( LIB ) album as their "last", but it isn't. And there were three Beatles who worked on tidying up 'I Me Mine" - not four. Exactly like what occurred when ANTHOLOGY was done, and the same three members DID get back together as The Beatles for those occasions ("Free As A Bird" in 1884, and "Real Love" in 1995). So by your own criteria, then ANTHOLOGY had to be "the last Beatles album". And at least Lennon appears on FAAB and RL ... he's not on "I Me Mine".
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Dec 6, 2015 17:29:11 GMT -5
PS -- I wonder why JSD is not bashing Capitol's MAGICAL MSYTERY TOUR? They did precisely the same thing with that LP (taking songs from here and there and mixing them in), and now it has become the UK--and-universally-accepted staple for those songs! It finally came to realization that Capitol Knew Best! Or should we all just go around collecting various singles and the MMT Extended Play 2-discer -- "as The Beatles first intended" ...? Don't be freaked out Joe but I love Meet The Beatles, it is light years better than With The Beatles because the single of "Hand" was included. So when I find Dave Dexter Jr 's grave to piss on, I will only use 85% of my urine on his grave! I think Mr. Dexter was no longer butchering...er assembling Beatles album by MMT which I like like everyone else, except vectisfabber, Mr. EP lover. Dr. O'Boogie, here is that link that wouldn't work above and it says Dexter was done with The Beatles by 1966: www.elsewhere.co.nz/absoluteelsewhere/6075/the-beatles-us-albums-reissued-how-america-misheard-the-beatles/
|
|
|
Post by Panther on Dec 6, 2015 22:31:34 GMT -5
'Meet the Beatles' probably is better than 'With The Beatles', but this is not evidence of Dave Dexter Jr.'s greatness. I'm pretty sure I could give a chimpanzee 40 Beatles' tracks from 1962-64 and it could make as good an album as the ones actually issued. The chimp should not then be praised for describing an generation's entry into adulthood.
|
|