|
Post by Steve Marinucci on Dec 15, 2009 16:26:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by OldFred on Dec 15, 2009 17:06:42 GMT -5
Our Johnny must be doing backflips now! ;D
|
|
|
Post by ursamajor on Dec 15, 2009 22:44:22 GMT -5
If ABBA reformed for a tour it would be a license to print money BUT they are not rock'n'roll so they shouldn't be in there.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Dec 16, 2009 0:08:27 GMT -5
You got that right, OldFred! I am off to find a cape, spandex pants and a ticket to the RRHF induction ceremony!
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Dec 16, 2009 8:44:20 GMT -5
If ABBA reformed for a tour it would be a license to print money BUT they are not rock'n'roll so they shouldn't be in there. Yeah, not like those rockers the Mamas and the Papas, Dion, James Taylor, the Supremes, Leonard Cohen, and Simon and Garfunkle.
|
|
|
Post by winstonoboogie on Dec 16, 2009 20:58:59 GMT -5
If ABBA reformed for a tour it would be a license to print money BUT they are not rock'n'roll so they shouldn't be in there. Yeah, not like those rockers the Mamas and the Papas, Dion, James Taylor, the Supremes, Leonard Cohen, and Simon and Garfunkle. Point taken, although I would delete Dion from your list based on "Runaround Sue" and "Ruby Baby".
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Dec 16, 2009 23:43:06 GMT -5
My thought is that ABBA belongs, because pop is a legitimate wing of rock, they had very well-crafted songs, they had a look, they had a unique sound and style, they had good lyrics, people still speak of them and remember them, there is a huge clamor for them to reunite (more so than for, say, Genesis), and they had worldwide, long-term mega popularity.
I think Genesis should not have gotten in before the Moody Blues, Yes, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, and Jethro Tull. I also think only the Peter Gabriel-led band should be in.
The Stooges should have gone in with Iggy Pop, but not by themselves.
The Hollies? Well, I don't think they have enough great songs, but if the Dave Clark Five are in, I guess they should be, too.
Jimmy Cliff? Yes, no doubt.
|
|
|
Post by mikev on Dec 16, 2009 23:59:48 GMT -5
Yeah, not like those rockers the Mamas and the Papas, Dion, James Taylor, the Supremes, Leonard Cohen, and Simon and Garfunkle. Point taken, although I would delete Dion from your list based on "Runaround Sue" and "Ruby Baby". Dion has also recorded some rocking blues albums in recent years. He is a rocker. Also the Wanderer...
|
|
|
Post by OldFred on Dec 17, 2009 6:12:56 GMT -5
With ABBA in, I wonder if Our Johnny can contain himself with this certainty: ABBA REUNION!!!
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Dec 17, 2009 8:47:31 GMT -5
Point taken, although I would delete Dion from your list based on "Runaround Sue" and "Ruby Baby". Dion has also recorded some rocking blues albums in recent years. He is a rocker. Also the Wanderer... Fair enough.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Dec 17, 2009 9:15:05 GMT -5
With ABBA in, I wonder if Our Johnny can contain himself with this certainty: ABBA REUNION!!!I could then be restored to my rightful place as the "Dancing Queen!"
|
|
wooltonian
Very Clean
"Football isn't a matter of life and death - it's much more important than that." Bill Shankly.
Posts: 796
|
Post by wooltonian on Dec 17, 2009 14:28:44 GMT -5
Abba in the R&R Hall of Fame? Totally deserved. Abba are excellent -- and I hope to be staggering around in Liverpool City Centre to many of their brilliant - and timeless - hits tomorrow night. I'm amazed - and slightly outraged - that they weren't in already!
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Dec 17, 2009 16:19:50 GMT -5
Abba in the R&R Hall of Fame? Totally deserved. Abba are excellent -- and I hope to be staggering around in Liverpool City Centre to many of their brilliant - and timeless - hits tomorrow night. I'm amazed - and slightly outraged - that they weren't in already! The skyline of Liverpool would be a beautiful backdrop to the music of ABBA! It would be neat if ABBA music was pumped all over the city through huge loudspeakers. That would be so wonderful during the holidays.
|
|
|
Post by ursamajor on Dec 18, 2009 6:28:10 GMT -5
If ABBA reformed for a tour it would be a license to print money BUT they are not rock'n'roll so they shouldn't be in there. Yeah, not like those rockers the Mamas and the Papas, Dion, James Taylor, the Supremes, Leonard Cohen, and Simon and Garfunkle. Exactly. They don't belong either , neither do blues artists or rap artists. Abba were a great band and deserved all their success but they don't belong anywhere near a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame because they're NOT rock'n'roll. It's very simple.
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Dec 18, 2009 9:01:09 GMT -5
Yeah, not like those rockers the Mamas and the Papas, Dion, James Taylor, the Supremes, Leonard Cohen, and Simon and Garfunkle. Exactly. They don't belong either , neither do blues artists or rap artists. Abba were a great band and deserved all their success but they don't belong anywhere near a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame because they're NOT rock'n'roll. It's very simple. ADDENDUM: In a way, maybe George Carlin and Cheech and Chong belong, too. Hmm? So, when you were a kid and listened to your local rock station, you shouted at the top of your lungs when someone like Cats Stevens came on, "He's NOT rock!" But, seriously, I get what you're saying about strictly blues and rap artists. My litmus test is if they were ever played on rock stations in from the 50's to today, they qualify as being part of "Rock and Roll".
|
|
|
Post by ChokingSmoker on Dec 21, 2009 17:22:21 GMT -5
Yeah, not like those rockers the Mamas and the Papas, Dion, James Taylor, the Supremes, Leonard Cohen, and Simon and Garfunkle. Exactly. They don't belong either , neither do blues artists or rap artists. Abba were a great band and deserved all their success but they don't belong anywhere near a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame because they're NOT rock'n'roll. It's very simple. I've always maintained that the Beatles were more pop than rock. They were pop/rock at it's best. More pop than rock in my opinion. So, if the music experts in the record industry agree to this, do we remove the Beatles from the H.O.F. You could be on very shaky ground here if the record industry agrees. Abba in on a landslide!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by ursamajor on Dec 21, 2009 19:08:03 GMT -5
Exactly. They don't belong either , neither do blues artists or rap artists. Abba were a great band and deserved all their success but they don't belong anywhere near a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame because they're NOT rock'n'roll. It's very simple. I've always maintained that the Beatles were more pop than rock. They were pop/rock at it's best. More pop than rock in my opinion. So, if the music experts in the record industry agree to this, do we remove the Beatles from the H.O.F. You could be on very shaky ground here if the record industry agrees. Abba in on a landslide!!!!! Sorry but you are wrong. The Beatles were two guitarists , a bass player and a drummer. They qualify. Abba were not a rock band. I can understand Abba getting in as Madonna is already in BUT the same people who complained about Madonna are now accepting Abba. What's wrong with this picture ?
|
|
|
Post by ChokingSmoker on Jan 4, 2010 16:33:58 GMT -5
I've always maintained that the Beatles were more pop than rock. They were pop/rock at it's best. More pop than rock in my opinion. So, if the music experts in the record industry agree to this, do we remove the Beatles from the H.O.F. You could be on very shaky ground here if the record industry agrees. Abba in on a landslide!!!!! Sorry but you are wrong. The Beatles were two guitarists , a bass player and a drummer. They qualify. Abba were not a rock band. I can understand Abba getting in as Madonna is already in BUT the same people who complained about Madonna are now accepting Abba. What's wrong with this picture ? I watched the Chris Issac show over the holidays. He had the band Chicago as his guest. To my surprise, they are not in the H.O.F. Conclusion: You may be right and I may be wrong. But I tend to lean to the fact that the H.O.F. doesn't have a clue of which hand is doing what. Let us call this a wash between you and I. Cheers
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Jan 5, 2010 9:07:01 GMT -5
. . . BUT the same people who complained about Madonna are now accepting Abba. What's wrong with this picture ? Because not all pop is created equal. Some of us believe ABBA had better songs and were more talented. Bjorn and Benny wrote more and better songs, they played their own instruments, and had a sound that was unique to them. Brian Wilson, when asked about who was better - the Beach Boys or the Beatles, said that in regards to songs, the Beatles were. In regards to creating a "sound" - a tie. Great artists are able to create their own style and sound. Today, when a new band comes out, people will often say things like "Beatlesque" or "sounds like the Stones" or "evokes Led Zeppelin." ABBA, like the Mamas and the Papas and the Four Seasons, vocally is unique. Many of us do not believe Madonna has carved out a unique sound, nor do we believe her songs or songwriting is up to Hall of Fame snuff, unlike ABBA. No inconsistency here.
|
|
|
Post by ChokingSmoker on Jan 6, 2010 14:55:03 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Jan 6, 2010 19:50:15 GMT -5
This harkens back to an argument I've made in regards to why the Beatles were the best. Yes, they were "pop" in that they were popular. However, they were not "pop" in regards to sound. If one wants dismiss them by snidely saying they were pop (in sound), then how does one explain "Helter Skelter" or "Tomorrow Never Knows." If one wants to call them a rock band, then how does one explain "The Inner Light." For every "Yesterday" there is a "Yer Blues." For every "Here There and Everywhere" there is a "Act Naturally" (yes, I know they didn't write it). My point is the Beatles were all categories and no categories. If one wants to use "pop" as an umbrella term to classify all songs that sold enough to garner extensive radio play, then go ahead and call the Beatles pop, just like Louis Armstrong, Benny Goodman, Johnny Cash, BB King, Pavarotti, Andre Bocelli, and Jimi Hendrix. But, if one wants to use "pop" to describe a softer kind of music like Celine Dion, Barbara Streisand, Olivia Newton John, Nat King Cole, and ABBA, then count the Beatles out. The Beatles were the best because they were genre shifters. And, they could shift legitimately. Unlike, say, John Denver or Jack Johnson doing a metal song or Metallica or Pink Floyd doing a country song, the Beatles could get away with doing any style of song. They were a pop band that could rock, a rock band that could pick, a country pickin' band that could drone, a drone band that could waltz, a waltz band that could experiment, an experimental band that could blues it, a blues band that could . . .
|
|
|
Post by ChokingSmoker on Jan 7, 2010 11:44:55 GMT -5
This harkens back to an argument I've made in regards to why the Beatles were the best. Yes, they were "pop" in that they were popular. However, they were not "pop" in regards to sound. If one wants dismiss them by snidely saying they were pop (in sound), then how does one explain "Helter Skelter" or "Tomorrow Never Knows." If one wants to call them a rock band, then how does one explain "The Inner Light." For every "Yesterday" there is a "Yer Blues." For every "Here There and Everywhere" there is a "Act Naturally" (yes, I know they didn't write it). My point is the Beatles were all categories and no categories. If one wants to use "pop" as an umbrella term to classify all songs that sold enough to garner extensive radio play, then go ahead and call the Beatles pop, just like Louis Armstrong, Benny Goodman, Johnny Cash, BB King, Pavarotti, Andre Bocelli, and Jimi Hendrix. But, if one wants to use "pop" to describe a softer kind of music like Celine Dion, Barbara Streisand, Olivia Newton John, Nat King Cole, and ABBA, then count the Beatles out. The Beatles were the best because they were genre shifters. And, they could shift legitimately. Unlike, say, John Denver or Jack Johnson doing a metal song or Metallica or Pink Floyd doing a country song, the Beatles could get away with doing any style of song. They were a pop band that could rock, a rock band that could pick, a country pickin' band that could drone, a drone band that could waltz, a waltz band that could experiment, an experimental band that could blues it, a blues band that could . . . Well, I'm not gonna split hairs at this point. They did it all and they did it the best. They could ballad,rock and heavy metal it with the best. All I am saying is that the majority of their work could be categorized as pop by today's standards. On the Abba side, same point. They had their rock songs, but their most popular stuff was the softer stuff. Their biggest hit though that put them on the map was Waterloo, and that song rocked. I'm not gonna argue this anymore for it is almost impossible to try and categorize any bands that break record sales for the pure point that they appeal to the masses but end up pigeon-holed by rigid minds.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Jan 7, 2010 17:05:17 GMT -5
Their biggest hit though that put them on the map was Waterloo, and that song rocked. Here is the greatest video of Waterloo where ABBA kicks ass!
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Jan 7, 2010 22:11:47 GMT -5
Their biggest hit though that put them on the map was Waterloo, and that song rocked. Here is the greatest video of Waterloo where ABBA kicks ass! As an American, I'm not sure how this Eurovision thing worked. Were the Beatles or any of the other more well-known pop/rock British bands, like the Hollies, Herman's Hermits, Dave Clark Five, etc., ever asked to submit songs. If not, why not? How do/did submissions work?
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Jan 8, 2010 9:20:23 GMT -5
Here is the greatest video of Waterloo where ABBA kicks ass! As an American, I'm not sure how this Eurovision thing worked. Were the Beatles or any of the other more well-known pop/rock British bands, like the Hollies, Herman's Hermits, Dave Clark Five, etc., ever asked to submit songs. If not, why not? How do/did submissions work? I'd like to know too. I just think this was a dramatic performance. The announcer is rather dismissive at first, talking about the women in the band as if this was a gimmick band but with the stirring opening and the strong melody, quickly the audience is won over. You can hear Björn Ulvaeus going nuts on vocals, scatting not unlike McCartney on the second half of "Hey Jude." The women of course are cool and sexy. Some of their actions seem sappho-erotic which is arousing to both genders. Any song that can so effectively invoke an historical analogy is okay with me.
|
|
wooltonian
Very Clean
"Football isn't a matter of life and death - it's much more important than that." Bill Shankly.
Posts: 796
|
Post by wooltonian on Jan 8, 2010 11:25:45 GMT -5
As an American, I'm not sure how this Eurovision thing worked. Were the Beatles or any of the other more well-known pop/rock British bands, like the Hollies, Herman's Hermits, Dave Clark Five, etc., ever asked to submit songs. If not, why not? How do/did submissions work? I'd like to know too. The Eurovision Song Contest is a very strange cultural phenomenon. Beamed across Europe to gazillions of homes once a year, the entrants are made up of obscure light entertainment groups, novelty acts, and bizarre freak shows. The UK went through a phase in the late 60s / early 70s of taking it all quite seriously and wheeled out 'big hitters' of the day -- Cliff Richard represented us in 1968 and 1973, although he was successful on neither occasion. Apple's own Mary Hopkin did the honours in 1970 with similar results. After that it was back to a succession of club singers, failed glamour models and hopeless wannabees. In Britain the whole thing is regarded as a huge joke - unless we win the thing, in which case it's a cause for great national pride. Oh, and there's lots of political in-fighting and vote rigging. Neighbouring countries invariably vote for each other and everyone hates the UK, because of Tony Blair and the war in Iraq.....not that we were ever that popular in continental Europe in the first place. The fact that a group as great as Abba came to prominence as a result of this competition was a freakish one-off occurrence.
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Jan 8, 2010 13:21:03 GMT -5
The Eurovision Song Contest is a very strange cultural phenomenon. Beamed across Europe to gazillions of homes once a year, the entrants are made up of obscure light entertainment groups, novelty acts, and bizarre freak shows. The UK went through a phase in the late 60s / early 70s of taking it all quite seriously and wheeled out 'big hitters' of the day -- Cliff Richard represented us in 1968 and 1973, although he was successful on neither occasion. Apple's own Mary Hopkin did the honours in 1970 with similar results. After that it was back to a succession of club singers, failed glamour models and hopeless wannabees. In Britain the whole thing is regarded as a huge joke - unless we win the thing, in which case it's a cause for great national pride. Oh, and there's lots of political in-fighting and vote rigging. Neighbouring countries invariably vote for each other and everyone hates the UK, because of Tony Blair and the war in Iraq.....not that we were ever that popular in continental Europe in the first place. The fact that a group as great as Abba came to prominence as a result of this competition was a freakish one-off occurrence. Thanks, but who decided that Cliff Richard would be the one or Mary Hopkins. I guess I could have seen the Bay City Rollers or Bonnie Tyler or Chris DeBurgh or even Sweet being considered. Is there a panel that looks at submissions. Do people vote for the one they want as the representative. Is it record company driven. Does each country have a TV special to nominate their representative? Does Jann Wenner have a vote? ( ;D ) Didn't a Scandavian grind core metal band win a year or two ago?
|
|
wooltonian
Very Clean
"Football isn't a matter of life and death - it's much more important than that." Bill Shankly.
Posts: 796
|
Post by wooltonian on Jan 8, 2010 15:09:05 GMT -5
Thanks, but who decided that Cliff Richard would be the one or Mary Hopkins. I guess I could have seen the Bay City Rollers or Bonnie Tyler or Chris DeBurgh or even Sweet being considered. Is there a panel that looks at submissions. Do people vote for the one they want as the representative. Is it record company driven. Does each country have a TV special to nominate their representative? Does Jann Wenner have a vote? ( ;D ) Didn't a Scandavian grind core metal band win a year or two ago? I'm no great expert on this, but I think that the broadcasting company from each of the competing countries sorts out that nation's representative act and the song. In old Blighty the BBC usually have a panel of 'music industry' people who shortlist a number of acts to represent the UK....and the public vote for their favourite via a phone-in poll. The exact procedure - and the make-up of the panel - has probably varied quite considerably over the years, and each country probably does it slightly differently - but that's the gist of it.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Marinucci on Jan 8, 2010 18:24:55 GMT -5
A bit of trivia: There's an old Swedish softcore film from the '60s called "The Seduction of Inga" that Bjorn and Benny wrote music for. Here's the link on IMDB.com: www.imdb.com/title/tt0067508/fullcredits#castAnd I remember seeing albums by the Hep Stars, which were Bjorn and Benny's group before ABBA.
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Jan 8, 2010 18:40:21 GMT -5
I'm no great expert on this, but I think that the broadcasting company from each of the competing countries sorts out that nation's representative act and the song. In old Blighty the BBC usually have a panel of 'music industry' people who shortlist a number of acts to represent the UK....and the public vote for their favourite via a phone-in poll. The exact procedure - and the make-up of the panel - has probably varied quite considerably over the years, and each country probably does it slightly differently - but that's the gist of it. This isn't really for you to answer Wooltonian, but my question is then, why wouldn't England submit the Beatles or Dave Clark Five or Herman's Hermits or Petula Clark or Lulu or any of the other great British acts of the 60's? Seems like it would be a slam dunk every year - unless they were up against the Singing Nun or someone like that.
|
|