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Post by OldFred on Feb 9, 2010 21:47:09 GMT -5
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Post by ursamajor on Feb 10, 2010 0:31:33 GMT -5
John by knockout if he can tag him within the first 3 rounds, otherwise Paul by a points decision.
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Post by OldFred on Feb 10, 2010 8:16:49 GMT -5
From Mitch Axelrod of the Fab Fourum: That's the topic of the latest Fab Fourum podcast. Listen as our hosts give their views on the debate that has been going on since 1964. Who was the leader? Who's "better"? Who's more important? Who's more of a rocker? John? Paul? Some of these questions and more will be discussed on this episode of Fab Fourum! Please join us at iTunes or at www.podarama.com/fab_fourumThanks. Mitch
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Post by jimc on Feb 10, 2010 22:08:11 GMT -5
Just what this forum and Beatle fans everywhere have always needed...at last a John v Paul debate.
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Post by John S. Damm on Feb 10, 2010 22:32:29 GMT -5
Just what this forum and Beatle fans everywhere have always needed...at last a John v Paul debate. Hi JimC, great to hear from you! I too am surprised that the Fab Fourum group would go there with a John vs. Paul thing. I haven't had time to listen to it but I suspect it is a feel-good conclusion with our experts declaring it a draw. But still....
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 11, 2010 8:02:40 GMT -5
I too am surprised that the Fab Fourum group would go there with a John vs. Paul thing. I haven't had time to listen to it but I suspect it is a feel-good conclusion with our experts declaring it a draw. But still.... I haven't heard it yet myself (can't wait to, though!). While I agree that the JOHN VS. PAUL thing is really silly overall, as both were actually GREAT songwriters, I think that what makes a debate interesting is that they were both very different as people. I don't see anything wrong with the Fab Fourum getting in on the fun, for one show. It's not like they always go around talking about "John vs Paul". But as a one-time covering of the topic for an episdode, no problem.
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Post by OldFred on Feb 11, 2010 9:21:13 GMT -5
I think all conclusions should be witheld till everyone actually listen to the podcast and what the Fabs' opinion actually are on the subject. Whatever you think their opinion is going to be goes into a totally different tangent and it's all very interesting. It not a case of someone saying "Oh John is better than Paul and this is why, blah, blah, blah!". It's not that at all, and the discussions are well thought-out. Just click on the podarama link or look it up on iTunes. Won't cost you anything to listen. www.podarama.com/fab_fourum or on iTunes.
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Post by acebackwords on Feb 11, 2010 12:55:36 GMT -5
Just what this forum and Beatle fans everywhere have always needed...at last a John v Paul debate. Ha ha. But lets really get controversial: Beatles or Rolling Stones, who rules? (answer: Dave Clark 5) My opinion? Paul is one of the great musicians, songwriters, and performers. But John was a genius. Thats the difference. As great as Paul was, the Beatles were John's band. Paul once beautifully summed up the relationship between the other Beatles and John: "We were all in love with John. It was like having our own Elvis in the group."
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Post by OldFred on Feb 11, 2010 13:09:17 GMT -5
Let's not stray from the thread topic, Folks. It's the Fab Fourum's opinion on the John vs. Paul subject, not ours. Listen to the podcast and then comment on whether or not you agree with their opinions. If you want to start the upteenth thread on the matter, go ahead. But, let's keep this thread on topic to what the Fab Fourum have to say about it. I found their take on the subject interesting and I liked the quote from Sean Lennon they cited on his view of The Beatles. I'd tell you what Sean said, but you can listen to the podcast yourself to hear it.
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Post by vectisfabber on Feb 11, 2010 13:59:55 GMT -5
My opinion? Paul is one of the great musicians, songwriters, and performers. But John was a genius. Thats the difference. My opinion? You couldn't get a fag paper between them as far as geniusness is concerned. And they needed each other to get the full measure out of their respective gifts.
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Post by jimc on Feb 11, 2010 14:16:58 GMT -5
My opinion? Paul is one of the great musicians, songwriters, and performers. But John was a genius. Thats the difference. My opinion? You couldn't get a fag paper between them as far as geniusness is concerned. And they needed each other to get the full measure out of their respective gifts. Exactly. End of story. Next podcast topic please.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Feb 11, 2010 16:07:05 GMT -5
My opinion? Paul is one of the great musicians, songwriters, and performers. But John was a genius. Thats the difference. My opinion? You couldn't get a fag paper between them as far as geniusness is concerned. And they needed each other to get the full measure out of their respective gifts. Couldn't have said it better vectisfabber. They were both geniuses. That is one of the attributes that put them (way) over the top as compared to other groups. I suspect our friend doesn't know the full range of Paul's contributions to the group. By the way, fag paper is cigarette paper to the uninitiated. I don't think Joe K. or John D. or many others would agree with acebackwords, who I agree has a cool name. John's band indeed. John and Paul put the Beatles together from scratch after the Quarrymen disintigrated. Paul brought George in who both in turn brought Ringo in over Pete Best. John was not so concerned with replacing Pete. So it was Paul who shaped the band as much or more than John. John was looked up to because he was the oldest of the three (John, Paul and George). This is really important when you are teenagers, but less important as adults. Paul made that Elvis comment about John out of respect and admiration. I don't remember hearing that quote before. However, that doesn't tell us how John felt about Paul. I suspect John had an equally large respect for Paul's abilities. I know during their hard times, he put down a couple of Paul's solo records, but he praised others. Soon after John died, Yoko, who sensed Paul's extreme grief, tried to comfort him by telling Paul how much John loved and respected him. And it was John who said how proud he was to have two great partners in his life: Paul and Yoko. In perhaps vulnerable moment John asked Yoko why people would cover Paul's songs and not his. Her answer wasn't on the mark--Paul's spoon, moon and June lyrics were a reason why. It was only because Paul's style was more accessible. It wasn't any really quality difference. But it shows how much John was aware of Paul's talents in his admission of some jealousy about covers. They were both geniusus period.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 11, 2010 16:39:14 GMT -5
John's band indeed. John and Paul put the Beatles together from scratch after the Quarrymen disintigrated. Paul brought George in who both in turn brought Ringo in over Pete Best. John was not so concerned with replacing Pete. So it was Paul who shaped the band as much or more than John. And who asked Paul to join his band? It was John. Why the need to "suspect"? John admitted his admiration for Paul, right up into 1980. I agree it WAS more that Paul's songs were more accessible. However, what about in recent years? John is covered very much - possibly even more than Paul! Just look at Green Day and WORKING CLASS HERO. People are now more interested, it seems, in covering songs with more meaning and message behind them, rather than "what sounds like an accessible ditty". Hey, RTP - this is the perfect time to inject something I've been thinking about asking you. I just watched some of that 1979 BIRTH OF THE BEATLES movie again, and it seems that even THEN they were putting Paul into the background and making John more of "The Chief Beatle". So, how do you react to that, considering you always claim that this only happened supposedly after John was murdered in late 1980? This attitude was prevalent even while Lennon was still alive. To Fred: I haven't listened to the podcast yet. I will do so right now. And thanks!
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Post by acebackwords on Feb 12, 2010 15:32:33 GMT -5
Let's not stray from the thread topic, Folks. It's the Fab Fourum's opinion on the John vs. Paul subject, not ours. ) Sorry if I sent this thread reeling off-topic (I don't have access to the podcast). I will add, since many people commented on my post, that I think Paul is one of the all-time greats. I just think John was a little greater. Just my opinion, and nothing to argue about. I'm a huge Paul fan. And Paul has certainly proven to be the greater of the commercial talents. I will add, it was John's band in the sense ( as he neatly summed it up): "I started the band, and I disbanded it."
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Post by OldFred on Feb 12, 2010 17:03:21 GMT -5
Let's not stray from the thread topic, Folks. It's the Fab Fourum's opinion on the John vs. Paul subject, not ours. ) Sorry if I sent this thread reeling off-topic (I don't have access to the podcast). I will add, since many people commented on my post, that I think Paul is one of the all-time greats. I just think John was a little greater. Just my opinion, and nothing to argue about. I'm a huge Paul fan. And Paul has certainly proven to be the greater of the commercial talents. I will add, it was John's band in the sense ( as he neatly summed it up): "I started the band, and I disbanded it." Hey Ace, You can access the podcast on this link to hear online: www.podarama.com/fab_fourum You don't need to download it and can hear it over your computers speakers. Hope you enjoy it and the earlier Fab Fourum podcasts, including the one with Ringo and our own Steve M.
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Post by OldFred on Feb 12, 2010 21:05:48 GMT -5
If Steve doesn't mind me taking a little liberty, I'd like to transfer his quote to this thread as I felt it was more appropriate here than on the 'Ringo Ceremony' thread: I listened to the Fab Fourum show last night while driving to a meeting (non-Beatle, if you must know). It goes a lot deeper than a simple John vs. Paul thing, though I think if you hit that area, you're going to invite that stuff, which this obviously did as we're discussing it here. But it's worth listening to and, as these FF shows happen to do, they get you thinking.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Feb 13, 2010 17:58:21 GMT -5
John's band indeed. John and Paul put the Beatles together from scratch after the Quarrymen disintigrated. Paul brought George in who both in turn brought Ringo in over Pete Best. John was not so concerned with replacing Pete. So it was Paul who shaped the band as much or more than John. And who asked Paul to join his band? It was John. Why the need to "suspect"? John admitted his admiration for Paul, right up into 1980. I agree it WAS more that Paul's songs were more accessible. However, what about in recent years? John is covered very much - possibly even more than Paul! Just look at Green Day and WORKING CLASS HERO. People are now more interested, it seems, in covering songs with more meaning and message behind them, rather than "what sounds like an accessible ditty". Hey, RTP - this is the perfect time to inject something I've been thinking about asking you. I just watched some of that 1979 BIRTH OF THE BEATLES movie again, and it seems that even THEN they were putting Paul into the background and making John more of "The Chief Beatle". So, how do you react to that, considering you always claim that this only happened supposedly after John was murdered in late 1980? This attitude was prevalent even while Lennon was still alive. To Fred: I haven't listened to the podcast yet. I will do so right now. And thanks! I remember the producer of that film at the time said John was the spirit of the Beatles and Paul was the heart of the Beatles. That is what comes though in the film. John was the spokesman to the outside world. In the studio it was different.
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Post by revolver66 on Feb 14, 2010 23:17:32 GMT -5
Thanks Fred for the Link. I will be listening to all these shows in the next week or so!!
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Post by OldFred on Feb 15, 2010 11:03:56 GMT -5
Thanks Fred for the Link. I will be listening to all these shows in the next week or so!! One more show to check out, R66, is this special Fab Fourum show with our very own Steve M., which can be found on this link: www.fabfourum.com/audio-gallery.html
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 15, 2010 16:33:25 GMT -5
I listened to the John vs. Paul show but it didn't really get that into it. Seems that most of the discussion was basically opining that there shouldn't be any "debate", and I certainly can agree with that; John and Paul are both great -- but for the purpose of the show, I thought they should have tried getting more into comparisons. One of the guys did talk about being "more of a John person who says what's on his mind" (as I am) and that's what I think the whole "versus" thing comes down to ... who you relate to more on an individual basis.
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Post by OldFred on Feb 15, 2010 16:40:31 GMT -5
I listened to the John vs. Paul show but it didn't really get that into it. Seems that most of the discussion was basically opining that there shouldn't be any "debate", and I certainly can agree with that; John and Paul are both great -- but for the purpose of the show, I thought they should have tried getting more into comparisons. One of the guys did talk about being "more of a John person who says what's on his mind" (as I am) and that's what I think the whole "versus" thing comes down to ... who you relate to more on an individual basis. At Last! Someone besides me and Steve who has actually HEARD the whole thing! Good on you, Joe!
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Post by John S. Damm on Feb 15, 2010 18:08:18 GMT -5
I listened to the John vs. Paul show but it didn't really get that into it. Seems that most of the discussion was basically opining that there shouldn't be any "debate", and I certainly can agree with that; John and Paul are both great -- but for the purpose of the show, I thought they should have tried getting more into comparisons. One of the guys did talk about being "more of a John person who says what's on his mind" (as I am) and that's what I think the whole "versus" thing comes down to ... who you relate to more on an individual basis. At Last! Someone besides me and Steve who has actually HEARD the whole thing! Good on you, Joe! And from what Joe reports, my time may be better spent by not investing the time to listen to this particular fourum!
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Post by OldFred on Feb 15, 2010 18:33:21 GMT -5
At Last! Someone besides me and Steve who has actually HEARD the whole thing! Good on you, Joe! And from what Joe reports, my time may be better spent by not investing the time to listen to this particular fourum! Johnny, I'll post another David Cassidy video if you will. {What? ME bribe a moderator? Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmedoityoucan'tproveanything! }
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Feb 15, 2010 18:48:59 GMT -5
At Last! Someone besides me and Steve who has actually HEARD the whole thing! Good on you, Joe! And from what Joe reports, my time may be better spent by not investing the time to listen to this particular fourum! Seriously, I usually take these in the car with me and listen to them while driving, or when I'm out walking. This one goes in a different direction than I would have expected. I think they've all been good, certainly discussions for the serious fan, although some are more serious than others.
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Post by John S. Damm on Feb 15, 2010 20:47:33 GMT -5
And from what Joe reports, my time may be better spent by not investing the time to listen to this particular fourum! Johnny, I'll post another David Cassidy video if you will. {What? ME bribe a moderator? Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmedoityoucan'tproveanything! } I do need to be careful as there are very few David Cassidy fans here and you have seen the man in the flesh(I think you did, and recently?). I am not worthy!
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Post by OldFred on Feb 15, 2010 21:26:21 GMT -5
Johnny, I'll post another David Cassidy video if you will. {What? ME bribe a moderator? Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmedoityoucan'tproveanything! } I do need to be careful as there are very few David Cassidy fans here and you have seen the man in the flesh(I think you did, and recently?). I am not worthy! I have seen the man in the flesh--twice! And no Folks, it's not what you think, we're just good friends!
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Feb 15, 2010 22:32:07 GMT -5
I have seen the man in the flesh--twice! And no Folks, it's not what you think, we're just good friends! That sentence will be with me for the rest of the night.
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