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Post by ReturnToPepperland on May 20, 2010 18:13:57 GMT -5
This is from a recent interview with Yoko Ono:
YOKO ONO believes her relationship with late BEATLE JOHN LENNON ruined his career. Ono, who was held responsible by many Beatles fans for the band's split in 1970, influenced Lennon into other experimental areas of music, but never intended to distract him from his natural progression. She says, "In a way... I ruined his career by getting together (with him), though we weren't aware of it at the time. "My initial reaction to rock music was, 'Oh dear, how simple can you get?' At first I thought John would carry on with The Beatles and I would do my own things, but we felt it wasn't right that we were working separately, that the union we had might not last, because of the pressure of the world."
Is Yoko admitting something we have talked about for many years?
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Post by acebackwords on May 20, 2010 18:21:33 GMT -5
My hunch is she may be alluding to the fact that she "ruined" his commercial career. And "ruined" only in the sense that his solo work didn't sell anywhere near that of Paul or the Beatles.
Yoko has said similar things in the past. Words to the effect of: When John collaborated with people who had more commercial instincts, like Bowie and Elton John, he had hit songs. But when he collaborated with somebody like me, who had lesser commercial instincts his work didn't sell as well.
She certainly didn't "ruin" his career in my opinion. I find his solo work -- and all the JohnandYoko psycho-dramas -- just as fascinating as his Beatles work.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on May 20, 2010 18:33:57 GMT -5
My hunch is she may be alluding to the fact that she "ruined" his commercial career. And "ruined" only in the sense that his solo work didn't sell anywhere near that of Paul or the Beatles. Yoko has said similar things in the past. Words to the effect of: When John collaborated with people who had more commercial instincts, like Bowie and Elton John, he had hit songs. But when he collaborated with somebody like me, who had lesser commercial instincts his work didn't sell as well. She certainly didn't "ruin" his career in my opinion. I find his solo work -- and all the JohnandYoko psycho-dramas -- just as fascinating as his Beatles work. I agree John had some brilliant times in his solo career. I have always enjoyed all the Beatles solo careers. I think it is unfair to look down upon them as not up to par because often people compare them to the best of the Beatles which no one can top in my opinion.
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Post by vectisfabber on May 24, 2010 17:30:07 GMT -5
Yes.
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Post by acebackwords on May 24, 2010 18:41:17 GMT -5
During his last years Yoko encouraged John to pursue kundalini yoga -- one of the highest and most beneficial spiritual practises, in my opinion. Surely Yoko should be given points for steering John in that direction.
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Post by vectisfabber on May 24, 2010 19:33:28 GMT -5
Let me see - thread title: "Did Yoko encourage John to take up Kundalini Yoga?"? Nope. So no credit there since, as far as I'm aware, John never pursued a career as a yoga instructor.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on May 24, 2010 21:44:48 GMT -5
IMO, she didn't exactly ruin it. She just knew how to "mother" him so she had him wrapped around her fingers just right. She played to John's desire to be taken care of and mothered and yet was mercurial and eccentric, which John was attracted to as well. What I objected to was her desire to remove John from his previous relationships as much as possible and "control" him in such a way as to make him think he was still in control of his own life and destiny. She was a master at that. Thus, John was a "wife" to her much of their time together, except for his "Lost Weekend". Didn't he often refer to her as "mother?" He would have eventually outgrown and matured enough to see through that and regain control of his life had he not been killed. He was already showing evidence of maturation as an individual during the Double Fantasy period in 1980.
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Post by ursamajor on May 24, 2010 22:39:40 GMT -5
In a way yes. I have always felt that if SINYC was a pure rock record it would have been his best to that point but instead we got political album which was basically irrelevant the day after it came out. I like the music but I don't like the topics. The original SINYC should have been released just as an album cover with no record inside.
Double Fantasy was a much better John and Yoko collaboration.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on May 25, 2010 8:17:35 GMT -5
In a way yes. I have always felt that if SINYC was a pure rock record it would have been his best to that point but instead we got political album which was basically irrelevant the day after it came out. I like the music but I don't like the topics. The original SINYC should have been released just as an album cover with no record inside. Double Fantasy was a much better John and Yoko collaboration. You're assuming that Yoko's the only radical. I think that's a false assumption. I think they were both passionate about their beliefs. SINYC would have happened without Yoko.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on May 25, 2010 8:18:44 GMT -5
This is from a recent interview with Yoko Ono: YOKO ONO believes her relationship with late BEATLE JOHN LENNON ruined his career. Ono, who was held responsible by many Beatles fans for the band's split in 1970, influenced Lennon into other experimental areas of music, but never intended to distract him from his natural progression. She says, "In a way... I ruined his career by getting together (with him), though we weren't aware of it at the time. "My initial reaction to rock music was, 'Oh dear, how simple can you get?' At first I thought John would carry on with The Beatles and I would do my own things, but we felt it wasn't right that we were working separately, that the union we had might not last, because of the pressure of the world." Is Yoko admitting something we have talked about for many years? If this crap came from Contact Music or WENN, as they're called, it's total b.s. That's the only news they put out. Don't believe a word of it.
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Post by acebackwords on May 25, 2010 12:19:30 GMT -5
Let me see - thread title: "Did Yoko encourage John to take up Kundalini Yoga?"? Nope. So no credit there since, as far as I'm aware, John never pursued a career as a yoga instructor. Oh c'mon. Don't get technical on me. John often said: "Yoko didn't inspire the music. She inspired me." Theres all the conjecture that Yoko ruined John -- not just his music but his life -- with her Dragon Lady routine. I'm just giving one of many examples where Yoko tried to help prop John up.
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Post by stavros on May 25, 2010 13:38:02 GMT -5
I think maybe without Yoko we'd have seen John self destruct like many others in the late 60s and early 70s. But one thing that always got under my skin was the fact that she seemed to feel she could but in and answer questions put to John in interviews. I also get the impression that she was a constant wedge between John ever working together with Paul in the 70s. That is based entirely on what I've seen and heard and may well be totally off the mark.
As for his solo career here in the UK he was in decline in the 70s after "Imagine". After his 5 years off "Double Fantasy" was already sliding down the charts here not long after release (even though John's own tracks on the album are some of his best). But whether that was down to Yoko I can't say. Had the Beatles carried on into the 70s they could have still made some great albums and the pressure to write an album would be spread amongst 3 songwriters. But would John have still got fed up anyway?
So maybe she ruined his career but certainly not his life. He seemed happy with her.
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Post by Snookeroo on Jul 25, 2010 15:48:16 GMT -5
NO!
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Post by Panther on Aug 26, 2010 6:57:07 GMT -5
My opinion is that John Lennon could have been akin to Bob Dylan or Elvis Presley in BIGness, as a solo artist, if he'd wanted to (I mean, after the Beatles, obviously). The facts are: he was quite lazy, fad-ish and prone to the selfish whims of people around him, and not overly excited about being BIG. Hence, he mostly stayed at home, didn't tour, and made some dashed-off albums (three of which he called "dogshit" a few years later). But mass success and a mass-devoted following were his to command if he had really desired that. Look no further than some dashed off singles like "Give Peace a Chance", Instant Karma!", and "Imagine".
In this context, I don't think Yoko ruined John at all. In fact, I think she briefly "saved" him -- I'm talking about 1970-71, something of a third "golden period" for John (after 1962-1964 and early 1968). In that period, before they went off to New York, I believe the eyewitnesses who say that John was healthy and happier than he'd ever been as a Beatle.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Aug 26, 2010 13:02:18 GMT -5
In this context, I don't think Yoko ruined John at all. In fact, I think she briefly "saved" him -- I'm talking about 1970-71, something of a third "golden period" for John (after 1962-1964 and early 1968). In that period, before they went off to New York, I believe the eyewitnesses who say that John was healthy and happier than he'd ever been as a Beatle. How can one be hooked on heroin and still be healthy and happier than he'd everbeen as a Beatle?
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Aug 26, 2010 13:13:35 GMT -5
He was emotionally going into a rut with Cynthia. Much as a lot of people wouldn't like to admit it, Yoko recharged his batteries artistically. "Walking On Thin Ice" was excellent proof of that. Obviously, we don't know what would have happened had he lived. She told me in one of my interviews they were planning to continue to experiment musically. But he also wanted to take Beatle songs on tour. He had his feet in both places. But Yoko gave him new ideas that Cynthia never would have. Whether you like Yoko's music or not, that can't be denied.
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Post by Panther on Aug 26, 2010 13:57:11 GMT -5
How can one be hooked on heroin and still be healthy and happier than he'd everbeen as a Beatle? Re: drugs -- my understanding is that John went on methadone to get off heroin in 1970, and after his summer 1970 primal scream therapy with Janov, he was cleaner than he'd been since India. After that, I suppose we'd be down to idle speculation if we aren't already. Re: happier -- I say this based on what John said, what Yoko said, and what many others who knew them at this time said (one example being Klaus Voorman). Aside from some rare moments here and there, I don't think John was generally excited or happy in the mid- to late-period Beatles. Hence, his marriage crumbled, he got hooked on hard drugs, and he went into a mini-slump of writing in 1966-67, and much of 1969.
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Post by coachbk on Aug 26, 2010 21:40:33 GMT -5
[quote
Aside from some rare moments here and there, I don't think John was generally excited or happy in the mid- to late-period Beatles. Hence, his marriage crumbled, he got hooked on hard drugs, and he went into a mini-slump of writing in 1966-67, and much of 1969.[/quote]
slump 66-67???
His REVOLVER songs plus "Rain", "Strawberry Fields" "Lucy", "A Day In The Life", "Mr. Kite", "All You Need Is Love", "Baby You're A Rich Man" and "I Am The Walrus" are an incredibly strong period of songwriting for John.
He may not have been happy, but he sure wrote some great music!
I do agree that 1969 was not one of John's most productive years musically.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Aug 27, 2010 5:34:42 GMT -5
But Yoko gave him new ideas that Cynthia never would have. Whether you like Yoko's music or not, that can't be denied. Oh, c'mon, Steve... Cynthia gave John plenty of ideas... for example, like which drapes looked best over their windows! LOL!!!!! ;D
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