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Post by OldFred on Oct 17, 2010 14:06:07 GMT -5
OK, now THIS is really interesting!
I posted the 'Yes, I'm You're Angel/Whoopee' videos on the Sulpy board and they left their own comments about the similarities, and someone posted the video of the Hollies performing their version of the song 'Stewball'. The similarities between 'Stewball' and 'Happy Xmas (War Is Over)' are amazing. How John&Yoko didn't get sued for this one, I have no idea. Also pointed out was the similarities of 'Happy Xmas' to Phil Spector's 'I Love You Love Me'. Even Spector pointed this out to John, who answered, "I only pinch from the best!". (I won't post the link to Sulpy board, but again, you guys can find it yourself.)
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 17, 2010 14:57:23 GMT -5
I'd learned about this a couple of years ago -- wasn't it here on this very site? All I know is, it nearly ruined HAPPY XMAS for me, forever. Oh well. While John didn't publicly admit to this one, he did show up in 1974 at WNEW studios with a bunch of old 45s so he could show from where he took some of his stuff.
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Post by RockoRoll on Oct 17, 2010 16:36:49 GMT -5
I'd learned about this a couple of years ago -- wasn't it here on this very site? All I know is, it nearly ruined HAPPY XMAS for me, forever. Oh well. While John didn't publicly admit to this one, he did show up in 1974 at WNEW studios with a bunch of old 45s so he could show from where he took some of his stuff. Ah geez OldFred, you spoilt my surprise, I was only an hour from creating this thread, we must have the same telepathic's...lol I was going to stir you Joe over it, in regards to John being a genious etc. But reading your post, your pardoned..... At the moment this is my favourite Hollies song, better than *He's My Brother*, or the *Air That I Breathe*, I'm driving my Mrs crazy with the verse... *Oh Stewball was a racehorse, and I wish he were mine. He never drank water, he always drank wine*...lol She says if you sing it one more time, you will be sleeping in the doghouse tonight, forget it she says, the horse has been dead 200 years...lol The version that Oldfred posted is my favourite, what do you think of Graham Nash voice, what harmonies, The amplification was unbalanced being live, but this gives us an opportunity to appreciate Graham's phenomenally acute ear for harmony. I doubt anyone would have an easy time reproducing what he sang here. Graham Nash replacement Terry Sylvester version of it (this Youtube link) is OK, but I prefer Graham Nash's, the guy should never have left the band..... Have a read of some of these comments, from this Youtube clip, some are unbelieveable.....? Eg.
•John Lennon 'borrowed' the melody of this song for his Happy Xmas song without even crediting the original author for 'inspiration'...
•The only reason John Lennon was not sued for this plagarism for this song's similarity to Happy Christmas is that Stewball was in the public domain. The copyright had expired.
John did the same thing with I Feel Fine which was a copy of Watch Your Step by Bobby Parker and Come Together which is a copy of You Can't Catch Me by Chuck Berry. John was forced to record the Rock and Roll album as payback to the publisher of You Can't Catch Me in settlement of a lawsuit.
•The Ballad of Stewball is said to appear in print as early as 1822 and was sung by slaves who over time changed the music an lyrics. Thats according to Sing out magazine. So take the chip of your shoulder •Firstly John lennon is better then the Hollies. secondly happy xmas is a great xmas song but isn't meant to be, it's a protest song against the vietnam war hence the war is over bit. Thirdly This isn't a Hollies song it's a cover of an old folk song from the 18th century.
•Stewball was an horse born in 1741. For that reason the hollies can't sue, nobody can otherwise they would've, The Hollies didn't write this song •NO WAY. I'm a huge fan of both the Hollies and The Beatles...plus I'm a very good musician. "Happy Xmas" is nothing but rubbish! •Lennon fried his mind so much from drugs that by May 1968 he couldn't even see that Yoko was a zero. The other 3 Beatles and their friends all detested her. The Hollies' great harmomies are much better than Lennon's pewtred lyrics and Yoko's screaching
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Post by sayne on Oct 17, 2010 22:02:53 GMT -5
I'd learned about this a couple of years ago -- wasn't it here on this very site? . . . Yes, it was from me - several times. It's ironic how people will rip John for stealing a song, but will post something that they think is an original topic for discussion, but not credit someone for having already presented it. Jeez, talk about gall.
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Post by RockoRoll on Oct 18, 2010 3:27:35 GMT -5
I'd learned about this a couple of years ago -- wasn't it here on this very site? . . . Yes, it was from me - several times. It's ironic how people will rip John for stealing a song, but will post something that they think is an original topic for discussion, but not credit someone for having already presented it. Jeez, talk about gall. Several times? All I recall is someone (we can't even remember what we ate last night, and your trying to tell us the postie from 2/3 years ago) that created this thread on the old site with very little discussion & replies. And now a new thread on our new site has resurfaced, with bugger all discussion & replies again.....Sayne, If you can point out where the other (several) threads/posts are on this topic is, I'II be happy to delete my post, my apology....
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Post by ursamajor on Oct 18, 2010 4:26:13 GMT -5
I don't think it sounds anything like it.
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Post by vectisfabber on Oct 18, 2010 4:48:57 GMT -5
There are places where the melody is very similar - first 2 lines, for instance!
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Post by OldFred on Oct 18, 2010 5:18:03 GMT -5
I never saw the original posts and saw the comparisons on another message board which was similar in content to the 'Yes, I'm Your Angel/Whoopee' thread. If the first references to the 'Xmas/Stewball' comparison are on the old AbbeyRd board, all the more reason why I didn't see them. I did give credit for the source to the other board because that's where I first saw them, not here. I DO give credit where credit is due.
If you have links to the original thread, post them on this thread so we can see them, or post them on a separate thread and I'll ask the moderators to completely remove this thread. Then, you can have ALL the credit for yourself.
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Post by ursamajor on Oct 18, 2010 5:24:32 GMT -5
Why are you guys arguing over who posted this topic first ? Whoa, sounds like there's abit of RTP in all of us
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Post by OldFred on Oct 18, 2010 5:41:45 GMT -5
Why are you guys arguing over who posted this topic first ? Whoa, sounds like there's abit of RTP in all of us I honestly didn't know that the subject had been previously referenced. The 'gentleman' could have just posted his links and wrote 'previously discussed here'. That would have been fine with me. If he can produce and post the links, he can still do so.
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Post by ursamajor on Oct 18, 2010 6:33:55 GMT -5
Why are you guys arguing over who posted this topic first ? Whoa, sounds like there's abit of RTP in all of us I honestly didn't know that the subject had been previously referenced. The 'gentleman' could have just posted his links and wrote 'previously discussed here'. That would have been fine with me. If he can produce and post the links, he can still do so. That's what I mean, sayne is a genius, very intelligent guy, didn't expect this from sayne, seems so Paul writing credits petty.
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Post by OldFred on Oct 18, 2010 7:05:42 GMT -5
Not wanting to start a 'board war' here, but just want to point out that some message boards, the Hoffman board for example, has a policy that when someone starts a thread on a topic that had already been previously discussed, another poster or moderator will post a link to the original thread and from that point on everyone defers to the first thread. No muss, no fuss, no inferred accusations of stealing a thread idea from another poster.
I think this policy should be applied to this board as well.
For the sake of fairness, I did a search on this board for previous references to 'Happy Xmas/Stewball'. I only found a few, most of which were on the Tony Hicks threads which I didn't read. You can do your own search to find the previous references on this board.
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 18, 2010 10:20:56 GMT -5
Not wanting to start a 'board war' here, but just want to point out that some message boards, the Hoffman board for example, has a policy that when someone starts a thread on a topic that had already been previously discussed, another poster or moderator will post a link to the original thread and from that point on everyone defers to the first thread. No muss, no fuss, no inferred accusations of stealing a thread idea from another poster. I think this policy should be applied to this board as well. Steve has done this before when such is apparent but there are going to be many repeat topics. All of us are pretty good about pointing out similar Threads as exactly happened here and then deciding whether to participate or not in the new, but repeated Thread. sayne did do an earlier Thread on Happy Xmas/Stewball but OldFred sounds sincere in not seeing that older Thread and/or remembering it. I could not find sayne's after a quick look(and doing a word search for this Board only down at the bottom of the page) and there were some people who posted here who seemed interested in the topic, repeat or not. In summary: it is good to avoid repeat Threads and thus clutter but they seem to take care of themselves here; we have given sayne his dues for starting the original Happy Xmas/Stewball Thread with actual comparisons; some folks are still interested in this topic, repeat or not and are free to revive sayne's if they care to or post here; and until I get a pay raise here, I am not going to scrutinize every single Thread for the possibility that it is repeating something unless it is blatant, i.e., if someone starts a new Thread called "JoeKarlosi v. RTP" then I will close it with a link to the original one and I am sure Steve would do the same if he spots such first.
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Post by scousette on Oct 18, 2010 11:15:33 GMT -5
Sheesh, how many repeat threads have we had re: "John vs. Paul?" "How would you re-order such-and-such LP?" "Who really wrote what middle eight?" ad nauseum
So "avant garde" John Lennon stole an old folk song about a horse!!!!
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Post by mikev on Oct 18, 2010 13:12:47 GMT -5
and by the way, Lennon stole Crippled Inside as well, mentioned a few threads back...
okay maybe not that one-can't seem to find the Beatles jam from Get Back which has an identical melody.
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Post by mikev on Oct 18, 2010 14:37:07 GMT -5
and by the way, Lennon stole Crippled Inside as well, mentioned a few threads back... okay maybe not that one-can't seem to find the Beatles jam from Get Back which has an identical melody. It was Black Dog Blues and the youtube link no longer works.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Oct 20, 2010 11:57:03 GMT -5
I don't think it sounds anything like it. Are you saying no similarity?
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Oct 20, 2010 11:59:24 GMT -5
Why are you guys arguing over who posted this topic first ? Whoa, sounds like there's abit of RTP in all of us That's not fair. My "arguments" have been interesting, sound, well thought out and substantial. This argument is silly and boring.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Oct 20, 2010 12:03:03 GMT -5
I honestly didn't know that the subject had been previously referenced. The 'gentleman' could have just posted his links and wrote 'previously discussed here'. That would have been fine with me. If he can produce and post the links, he can still do so. That's what I mean, sayne is a genius, very intelligent guy, didn't expect this from sayne, seems so Paul writing credits petty. My threads about Paul talking about how he and John collaborated in the writing of their songs is not at the level of this argument. That argument holds people's interest for many pages and weeks and has substance. This argument is boring and vapid. I can't believe you would equate them.
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Post by scousette on Oct 20, 2010 12:27:43 GMT -5
Why are you guys arguing over who posted this topic first ? Whoa, sounds like there's abit of RTP in all of us That's not fair. My "arguments" have been interesting, sound, well thought out and substantial. This argument is silly and boring. ;D
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 20, 2010 14:07:10 GMT -5
That's not fair. My "arguments" have been interesting, sound, well thought out and substantial. You forgot the most vital ingredient -- biased.
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Post by ursamajor on Oct 20, 2010 15:26:32 GMT -5
That's what I mean, sayne is a genius, very intelligent guy, didn't expect this from sayne, seems so Paul writing credits petty. My threads about Paul talking about how he and John collaborated in the writing of their songs is not at the level of this argument. That argument holds people's interest for many pages and weeks and has substance. This argument is boring and vapid. I can't believe you would equate them. Relax, I was just taking the mickey out of the argument and I used you to do it. Of course your posts are well thought out , highly stimulating and informative if just a tad obsessive.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Oct 20, 2010 16:46:49 GMT -5
My threads about Paul talking about how he and John collaborated in the writing of their songs is not at the level of this argument. That argument holds people's interest for many pages and weeks and has substance. This argument is boring and vapid. I can't believe you would equate them. Relax, I was just taking the mickey out of the argument and I used you to do it. Of course your posts are well thought out , highly stimulating and informative if just a tad obsessive. Thanks for clearing that up. I admit to the tad obsessive part.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Oct 20, 2010 16:49:45 GMT -5
That's not fair. My "arguments" have been interesting, sound, well thought out and substantial. You forgot the most vital ingredient -- biased. And you have no bias? We all do. People can judge for themselves when we have made our cases.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 21, 2010 6:15:47 GMT -5
You forgot the most vital ingredient -- biased. And you have no bias? I don't let it affect my objectivity, no way. Even though I may favor John, I very often bypass this and I'll give Paul credit OVER John in album votes, or discussions of talent, or anything else. You never do this. For example, I will nail John for deliberately pinching STEWBALL for HAPPY XMAS. But you won't say Paul ripped the beginning of PEOPLE GET READY for ANYWAY.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Oct 21, 2010 14:24:16 GMT -5
I don't let it affect my objectivity, no way. Even though I may favor John, I very often bypass this and I'll give Paul credit OVER John in album votes, or discussions of talent, or anything else. You never do this. For example, I will nail John for deliberately pinching STEWBALL for HAPPY XMAS. But you won't say Paul ripped the beginning of PEOPLE GET READY for ANYWAY. I said he did do it, but I don't think he did it consciously. Look at how surprised he was when it came up on that radio show. As for the album voting, I would vote for John over Paul with certain sides. I think I did vote against Paul before. You say it never affects your objectivity. I'm not talking about album voting, but what about when you scream and yell (in writing) when I give Paul credit by pointing out one of his contributions.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 21, 2010 14:52:40 GMT -5
You say it never affects your objectivity. I'm not talking about album voting, but what about when you scream and yell (in writing) when I give Paul credit by pointing out one of his contributions. You reduce John every chance you get and try to always make Paul -- if not superior to John -- than equal in every single instance. Such as when you absurdly claim that Paul's childhood was "just as rough as John's". And what do you mean, "scream and yell (in writing)"? THIS IS SCREAMING AND YELLING IN WRITING!!!!!!!!
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