|
Post by ReturnToPepperland on Nov 6, 2010 14:47:32 GMT -5
The attached link contains a very interesting article about the Beatles religions. Most interesting are the details about John's relationship with his father, Freddie. It is a heartbreaking story in that in 1975 John wanted to reconnect with his father and his wife and two half brothers. Freddie died of cancer soon after their last contact. An interesting aspect of the story about his father is that in 1970, fresh out of his "therapy" with Arthur Janov, John, who had reconnected with his father two years earlier and had bought he and his family a house in Brighton, turned on Freddie and threw him out. John didn't see him for 5 years and had regrets about it. I didn't know some of these facts about the full story of John and his father. www.catholic-sf.org/news_select.php?newsid=6&id=57767This leads to my question. Did Janov hurt or help John? Was it something he had to go through to get in touch with his feelings so he could release them? It may be the reason that the 1970 Rolling Stone interview found him so bitter and spiteful. He clearly mellowed by about 1973-74 regarding the Beatles and also regarding his father. I think Janov made John scapegoat everyone in his life. His parents, Paul, even Aunt Mimi became objects of blame for his own situation. I don't know if that was helpful. Janov made him more of an "angry young man" blaming everyone and not taking any of the responsibility himself. It seems like after he had a few years to separate himself from Janov, he was healthier mentally, though he continued to take drugs perhaps on a more recreational level. Was Janov necessary or was he a distraction? John matured during the 1970s. John sought to contact his father again when Sean was on the way and then when he was born it became very important to John that he reconnect with his father. Would becoming a father at that time in his life had been enough for him to come to appreciate the importance of family ties without Janov? Or did he need the Janov experience? Another hilarious story I hadn't heard was that John was permanently banned from his Anglican parish while serving in the childrens’ choir for “repeatedly improvising obscene and impious lyrics to the hymns.” Another interesting fact I had never heard was that John’s grandfather, minstrel singer Jack Lennon, had a brother William who was a Catholic priest in England.
|
|
|
Post by winstonoboogie on Nov 6, 2010 21:05:32 GMT -5
Very interesting! Thanks for posting that, RTP! A lot of Freddie's story is also told in Phillip Norman's John Lennon biography, which is the first time I (and many others, I suspect) had heard Freddie's side.
|
|
|
Post by acebackwords on Nov 8, 2010 18:03:53 GMT -5
Thats an interesting question. And theres probably no right or wrong answer with these "the road not taken" kind of issues. I know John basically felt he benefitted from Primal Therapy. Never quite denounced it afterwards with the same vitriol he spewed at most of his other Next Big Things (Maharishi, Leary with that "stupid book", Jerry Rubin, etc).
To be fair to Janov, John dropped out of Primal Scream therapy half way through the program, much to Janov's chagrine. And I think to some sense, John unleashed his demons before he learned to control them. So it wasn't surprising he ended up in a screaming, demented rage during the Lost Weekend period afterwards. But John's reason for quitting the therapy was that he felt Yoko had mastered it, and that she could administer it without Janov's help.
Personally, I suspect without Primal Therapy John would have went completely nuts. I always sort of saw Lennon as this guy with these incredible surges of electricity running through his body. And that if he didn't learn to at least channel those powers within him and release them to the world they would've clogged up inside him, like a dammed up river, and blown him to pieces.
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Nov 8, 2010 20:24:07 GMT -5
But John's reason for quitting the therapy was that he felt Yoko had mastered it, and that she could administer it without Janov's help. Interesting. That fuels a suspicion that Yoko might have put that thought in John's head to separate him from Janov before he became dependent on Janov, but making him more dependent on Yoko.
|
|
|
Post by ursamajor on Nov 8, 2010 21:01:59 GMT -5
But John's reason for quitting the therapy was that he felt Yoko had mastered it, and that she could administer it without Janov's help. Interesting. That fuels a suspicion that Yoko might have put that thought in John's head to separate him from Janov before he became dependent on Janov, but making him more dependent on Yoko. Hmmm the master manipulator at work. In all fairness though if you get the DVD of The Making of John Lennon/POB Janov is in there as well. You see everyone, Yoko, Ringo, Klaus, the producers and engineers and you don't get a sense at all of Yoko controlling John. Also, he was doing it for himself and I think Yoko went along for support, he got the song God out of it and all the screaming on Mother. The man was tortured. I'm surprised he was able to do everything that he did.
|
|
|
Post by acebackwords on Nov 9, 2010 14:01:56 GMT -5
Another interesting question: Was LSD a possitive influence on John?
Psychedelic drugs were the first big spiritual therapy John Lennon went for in a big way in an attempt to heal his wounded psyche. He spoke highly of psychedelics to the end of his life, claimed they hadn't damaged him and that he had never met anyone personally who had been damaged by them (which is doubtful). Psychedelics certainly inspired his creativity. But as therapy? Who knows.
George, on the other hand, pretty much swore off psychedelics after his disastrous bummer in the Haight-Ashbury during the Summer of Love. He warned Lennon to stop taking them before they completely screwed up his mind. Lennon countered that he hadn't noticed any damage so he was going to keep going with it. To which George warned; "You'll see."
Janov, by the way, considered LSD one of "the most harmful things for mental health" that he had ever seen. He believed the damage was permanent and that Leary had destroyed countless lives by touting LSD.
|
|
|
Post by ursamajor on Nov 9, 2010 22:44:02 GMT -5
Interesting, one thing about John which is hard to figure out is that it appears he was depressed during the period of LSD say 1966/67 although he sang about depression and isolation from 1964 , I'm A Loser and Help in '65. Paul said that during the making of MMT John was going through a tough time.
Mental health was not recognised as a diesease like it is today and John may have had bouts of depression his whole life which went undiagnosed even in his house husband years.
|
|
|
Post by acebackwords on Nov 10, 2010 17:28:01 GMT -5
Interesting, one thing about John which is hard to figure out is that it appears he was depressed during the period of LSD say 1966/67 although he sang about depression and isolation from 1964 , I'm A Loser and Help in '65. Paul said that during the making of MMT John was going through a tough time. Mental health was not recognised as a diesease like it is today and John may have had bouts of depression his whole life which went undiagnosed even in his house husband years. Interesting. The two words John most often used to describe himself were "cracked" and "crackers." He definitely saw himself as a mad genius. Though it was often difficult for his audience to separate the madness from the genius. You could look at Lennon's entire life as a series of crack-ups. He got expelled from kindergarten for attacking his classmates. The divorce of his parents was one of the most traumatic events of his life. Then he was shattered again at age 17 when his Mother was killed. Spent several years in a drunken rage. Cracked up again during the "Help" period (which he definitely meant as a call for help). Cracked up again after the Maharishi fiasco. "John seemed angry all the time during the White Album period" is how many put it. Cracked up again during the aftermath of the "Let It Be" sessions which he described as absolutely miserable, leading to his "Cold Turkey" kind of crack up. Cracked up again during the Primal Scream period. Cracked up again during the Lost Weekend Period. Cracked up several times during his House Husband period. Yoko would periodically worry that John had completely lost his mind and was going to commit suicide, especially during one of their visists to Japan. Somehow, John would always pick himself up after these crack-up periods -- usually with the power of blind faith in his latest Next Big Thing. He always seemed to be aspiring towards some grand cathartic experience that would heal his soul. His sail-boat trip to the Bahamas being the last one of his lifetime.
|
|
nine
Very Clean
Posts: 840
|
Post by nine on Nov 11, 2010 6:03:27 GMT -5
Interesting, one thing about John which is hard to figure out is that it appears he was depressed during the period of LSD say 1966/67 although he sang about depression and isolation from 1964 , I'm A Loser and Help in '65. Paul said that during the making of MMT John was going through a tough time. Mental health was not recognised as a diesease like it is today and John may have had bouts of depression his whole life which went undiagnosed even in his house husband years. Interesting. The two words John most often used to describe himself were "cracked" and "crackers." He definitely saw himself as a mad genius. Though it was often difficult for his audience to separate the madness from the genius. You could look at Lennon's entire life as a series of crack-ups. He got expelled from kindergarten for attacking his classmates. The divorce of his parents was one of the most traumatic events of his life. Then he was shattered again at age 17 when his Mother was killed. Spent several years in a drunken rage. Cracked up again during the "Help" period (which he definitely meant as a call for help). Cracked up again after the Maharishi fiasco. "John seemed angry all the time during the White Album period" is how many put it. Cracked up again during the aftermath of the "Let It Be" sessions which he described as absolutely miserable, leading to his "Cold Turkey" kind of crack up. Cracked up again during the Primal Scream period. Cracked up again during the Lost Weekend Period. Cracked up several times during his House Husband period. Yoko would periodically worry that John had completely lost his mind and was going to commit suicide, especially during one of their visists to Japan. Somehow, John would always pick himself up after these crack-up periods -- usually with the power of blind faith in his latest Next Big Thing. He always seemed to be aspiring towards some grand cathartic experience that would heal his soul. His sail-boat trip to the Bahamas being the last one of his lifetime. And that boat trip was real. Nature. No drugs. I reckon that gave him something big that would have changed the direction of his life but thanks to that piece of shit we'll never know... unless there's an alternative dimension and we somehow crack a way of getting there...
|
|
|
Post by Panther on Nov 11, 2010 14:48:03 GMT -5
Agree about John and the "next big thing". He was the type who jumped from total immersion in one fad to total immersion in the next fad, constantly being disappointed by each one in succession -- the pattern of a sort of fatalistic personality disorder.
I do think the primal scream era (mid 1970) was good for John, mainly because (a) it reduced his drug dependency more or less, and certainly got him off methadone (via heroin), and (b) resulted in the JL/POB album, which I think is the best post-Beatle recording. But besides that, I like the energy that John had starting around 1970 -- like "Instant Karma". But that was before the primal scream therapy, so it's hard to say exactly what effect it had on him.
John seemed to be in a kind of 'nutter' state after India in spring 1968 and up to 1970. I therefore conclude that whatever happened to him in 1970 was probably for the good.
|
|
|
Post by acebackwords on Nov 12, 2010 13:48:53 GMT -5
In the Anthology book George talked about how the other Beatles under-estimated how nuts John was. It wasn't until the Primal Scream album that they realized the depths of the demons he was dealing was. John was so brilliant, so sharp, so talented, in so many ways, that it was probably hard to grasp how crazy he was. And so charming that he could cover it up. But "beneath this mask I am wearing a frown."
Janov said: "John was in more pain that any person I had ever seen."
John Brower -- the would-be promoter of the John Lennon Toronto Peace Festival debacle -- said: "John had a rage in him that was with him every day of his life."
Maybe with John Lennon it was just one of those things where you have an extremely strong creative force within you, an extremely strong destructive force comes along with the bargain.
|
|
|
Post by ursamajor on Nov 16, 2010 21:07:07 GMT -5
In the Anthology book George talked about how the other Beatles under-estimated how nuts John was. It wasn't until the Primal Scream album that they realized the depths of the demons he was dealing was. John was so brilliant, so sharp, so talented, in so many ways, that it was probably hard to grasp how crazy he was. And so charming that he could cover it up. But "beneath this mask I am wearing a frown." Janov said: "John was in more pain that any person I had ever seen." John Brower -- the would-be promoter of the John Lennon Toronto Peace Festival debacle -- said: "John had a rage in him that was with him every day of his life." Maybe with John Lennon it was just one of those things where you have an extremely strong creative force within you, an extremely strong destructive force comes along with the bargain. and the irony is that if John wasn't a tortured man and had a warm and loving upbringing he would not have created the masterpieces he did .. it's his own inner struggle that made him the creative spirit that he was , imo ..
|
|
|
Post by acebackwords on Nov 17, 2010 13:51:55 GMT -5
So true, Ursamajor. Its a bit of a cliche but its the ole' irritation-in-the-oyster-that-produces-the-pearl syndrome.
|
|