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Post by sayne on Sept 13, 2008 21:15:38 GMT -5
This is not meant to be a review or critique. More as an observation or supposition.
I've been listening and watching a lot to recent music and video of Dhani, Sean, and Julian and something has struck me. You know how kids usually "rebel" against their parents by being the opposite of them? You know the joke - if you want your kids NOT to take drugs, take drugs. Your kids will do the opposite. Well, that's the impression I've gotten from Dhani's, Sean's, and Julian's music. It's sooooo not pop. It's not accessible. It's not "radio friendly."
Julian's initial recordings were very pop, very MTV, and radio ready. The comparisons to John and the Beatles were inevitable and often unfair. From that lesson, are Dhani, Sean, and even Julian going the other way? Or is something else happening? I think their stuff is interesting, but comes across as consciously obtuse and self-absorbed to me rather than intentionally pleasing. Again, this is not a review. But, I think these Beatle boys' music has more to do with Radiohead, Beck, and Frank Zappa than John, Paul, and George. Are they trying to deliberately distance themselves to avoid comparisons or are they doing it subconsciously. Or, is it just a matter of their taste?
Now, unlike most bands, they have the "trust fund" that allows them to explore their whims or find their muse. Not like my bands that have been ever searching for that perfect riff or hook. Are they simply fortunate enough to have the means to explore true artistic freedom or are they not feeling up to being held up to their dads all the time.
Any thoughts?
PS Getting back to "trust funds", I don't think there are many new bands playing their first show without a record contract who can get a gig at the Key Club and have a stage set up like the newnumber2. It's nice to be comfortable.
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JMG
Very Clean
Posts: 412
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Post by JMG on Sept 13, 2008 22:12:23 GMT -5
Couldn't tell you sayne.
I bought Julian Lennon's first LP's 1984s 'Valotte' and in 1986 'The Secret Value Of Daydreaming.' After that I lost interest in his music. It just wasn't going anywhere for me. The other two kids? I have no idea. If their last names weren't 'Lennon' and 'Harrison' I doubt they'd have recording contracts.
My taste in music today leans more to Jazz, Blues and Classical music.
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Post by mikev on Sept 14, 2008 0:19:17 GMT -5
Rich boys with rich toys- but not really Julian. I think he had talent, just bad management.
Can't really comment on Sean and Dhani-only have caught bits and pieces of their stuff.
Zak would never in a million years have been recruited by the Who if he couldn't play. I've seen the Who 9 times (never with Moon though). He was the best drummer out of all the post Moon guys.
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Post by gottafeelin on Sept 16, 2008 16:20:08 GMT -5
Sean seems to be the most musically talented to me so far. His songs on the second album are very well-written with complex arrangements. His guitar playing is great. If he could just do something about that voice...
I'm really looking forward to James McCartney's first album that reportedly is in the works. Hopefully it will be worth while.
Dhani sounds pretty boring so far and Julian is MOR.
Edited to say that I'm glad James no longer looks like a fat little schoolgirl.
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 16, 2008 16:50:03 GMT -5
Sean seems to be the most musically talented to me so far. His songs on the second album are very well-written with complex arrangements. His guitar playing is great. If he could just do something about that voice... I'm really looking forward to James McCartney's first album that reportedly is in the works. Hopefully it will be worth while. Dhani sounds pretty boring so far and Julian is MOR. Edited to say that I'm glad James no longer looks like a fat little schoolgirl. LMAO! I am glad that James has slimmed down too as he seeks to become the heir apparent to father Paul's musical legacy as a musician himself. We know that Stella will rule the business end of it once Paul is gone but James will keep new McCartney music flowing. Or so the fairy tale goes. I totally agree about Sean's considerable musical talents yet he is cursed with what ChuckE has called the "Big Bird" voice! I like most of Julian's MOR sound, it is not quite muzak to my ears. ;D Obviously Zak Starkey is one fine drummer and in demand. He makes us all proud like he did at The Concert for NYC while playing for the Who. He is fun to watch and hits those skins hard. Dhani intrigues me. There is real talent there but whether that will translate into good, new music remains to be seen. I am taking a wait and see approach as it would be too easy to give Dhani a free pass simply because he looks just like George and with George's passing we all feel sorry for him. There are those on the internet who already worship him without just cause yet. I would love to hear music from the Beatle Girls too and they say Stella has a set of pipes(when she is not screaming f-this or f-that). Ringo's granddaughter is up and coming.
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Post by sayne on Sept 16, 2008 20:37:51 GMT -5
But, no one is addressing the gist of the thread, "Why are the Beatle boys NOT doing commercial music?" Taste? Talent? Deliberately not wanting comparisons to the dads? Not interested in the pop game? More interested in art than commerce? . . .
All I know is that most people I know who have gotten into bands wanted "to make it". That meant writing accessible songs, regardless of the genre. Even indie bands have nice pop rockin' songs. But, the Boys' boys have not been anywhere near that. Again, this is not a comment on the quality of their music, just the style they've chosen.
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 16, 2008 20:55:27 GMT -5
But, no one is addressing the gist of the thread, "Why are the Beatle boys NOT doing commercial music?" Taste? Talent? Deliberately not wanting comparisons to the dads? Not interested in the pop game? More interested in art than commerce? . . . It is probably deliberate to avoid comparisons to their old men and some false sense of artistic bravado, they think being commercial is unhip(I am referring to Sean and Dhani only). These guys are set for life financially so music is a hobby, they can afford to be self-indulgent. There is nothing wrong with good, commercially successful music. If Sean or Dhani want to leave their mark they might want to try it.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Sept 16, 2008 22:44:34 GMT -5
Zak would never in a million years have been recruited by the Who if he couldn't play. I've seen the Who 9 times (never with Moon though). He was the best drummer out of all the post Moon guys. I saw the Who with Moon more than once. I also saw them with Kenney Jones, who was a favorite of mine with the Faces (I was a big Faces fan). Zak was better than Kenney, without a doubt. Kenney came off as too much a play-by-the-numbers guy in the Who. Zak had more of the Moon spirit to him.
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Post by sayne on Sept 16, 2008 23:55:40 GMT -5
I saw the Who with Moon more than once. I also saw them with Kenney Jones . . . Zak had more of the Moon spirit to him. Me, too, and I totally agree with you. The Who were never "The Who" without Moon, and will never be "the Who" now that the Ox is gone. But, you're right. With Zak, they have a better chance of having a "Who" vibe than at anytime with Jones.
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Post by mikev on Sept 17, 2008 7:08:43 GMT -5
I agree 100% on your assessment of Kenney Jones.
I was suprised the the Twho went on without the Ox. So far, I've only viewed the live at Boston DVD, and it still sounds like the Who, but you really do miss the original rhythym section.
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Post by sayne on Sept 17, 2008 7:55:26 GMT -5
I'll be seeing them here in LA in November. The draw? Maybe the last time, it's in a small venue, and there IS new material.
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Post by mikev on Sept 17, 2008 9:47:16 GMT -5
I bought the "new" album (2006 release). It was different from anything else they ever released-sort of a home demo of a Pete Townshend solo album with Roger sharing lead vocal, but I generally enjoyed it.
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Post by richforman on Sept 17, 2008 11:20:44 GMT -5
I think with Dhani and Sean they are simply much more influenced by much more recent, contemporary directions and sounds in music, than by Beatles-like more traditional pop songwriting. The broad style that the Beatles worked in hasn't been dominant in the pop world for a while now. If these two young musicians produced that kind of songs, it would seem very anachronistic, it would appeal more to us older listeners but less to their own peers (agewise) and contemporaries. Basically it seems very natural to me that their music would be much more modern and not at all like their dads', because of their age. When Julian was first making records quite a while back now in the early '80's, the traditional pop style was still much more of a strong and current thread in current music, and so it seems natural again, to me, that the music he created then would be more similar to his dad's. The surviving Beatles themselves, of course, continue to produce music very much in that older songwriting and record-making style (with Paul I think making comparatively more nods and attempts to a more modern/contemporary style, and Ringo staying more firmly rooted in 70's style songwriting and production) with more appeal and familiarity to us oldsters.
richforman
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Post by mrjinks on Sept 17, 2008 15:49:39 GMT -5
fwiw, I quite enjoy what little I've heard from Dhani's band. On the other hand, I found Sean Lennon's first album so awful that I'll never bother with his music again. Julian's career has been a case of diminishing returns, IMO, but there's still the occasional gem in his later work (Saltwater, for example). For that, I'll keep giving him a chance...
I wonder how many different record labels have offered $$ to Julian to record an album of his dad's songs. I'd bet more than one.
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 17, 2008 23:46:17 GMT -5
I wonder how many different record labels have offered $$ to Julian to record an album of his dad's songs. I'd bet more than one. I love what I have heard of Julian's cover of "When I'm 64." Having said that, I am not sure I want a whole album by Julian covering his father's songs.
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Post by mikev on Sept 18, 2008 1:14:58 GMT -5
I think Julian and Sean should unite to finish John's unfinished songs: Gone From the Place India Dear John She Was a Friend of Dorothy's Grow old With Me Mucho Mungo etc.
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ChuckE
Very Clean
AlexE & RachelE, May '08
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Post by ChuckE on Sept 18, 2008 12:00:11 GMT -5
I think Julian would do well commercially with a cover album of his father's tunes ("Lennon Does Lennon"?), but that he'd likely consider it artistic suicide. I liked his cover of "When I'm 64" for the Allstate commercial, but I'd bet that all parties involved considered it a one-shot thing. If you haven't yet heard Julian's Photograph Smile album (his most recent album, though it's 10 years old), I heartily recommend it. I honestly think it's his best album. NP: the Pretenders, "Kid" (demo), Pretenders (2-CD deluxe remaster)
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Post by mikev on Sept 18, 2008 13:08:41 GMT -5
Someone should finish John's unfinished songs. Only three people are in my opinion entitled to do it, McCartney and the two Lennons.
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Post by Panther on Sept 27, 2008 3:10:58 GMT -5
I loved the old joke that the 'boys' were going to form a new super-group called "Here Comes The Sons".
It's interesting that Julian is taken seriously in the UK, and Sean in the US.
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Post by jimc on Sept 27, 2008 18:53:12 GMT -5
Interesting question. Thanks for the post.
What is commercial music today? If you're saying they should sound like the Beatles, I think that's impossible and a dead end. But what should they sound like as opposed to what they do sound like?
I'm sure each of them wished they had the abilities of Radiohead.
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Post by waitrose on Oct 7, 2008 3:42:54 GMT -5
I would love to hear music from the Beatle Girls too and they say Stella has a set of pipes(when she is not screaming f-this or f-that). Ringo's granddaughter is up and coming. Like this review from the Times (no less): TRACK: Excession. WHO: Belakiss. WHAT: Psychedelic rock licks. WE SAY: Bela Kiss was a pretty nasty man. The Hungarian serial killer murdered many women and pickled them in metal drums at his house. Nice. Belakiss, on the other hand, specialise in killer riffs. Excession is a catchy, noisy little rocker. It starts with a Sonic Youth-esque bending one-note verse before bombarding you with relentless crashing guitars and a strong, sturdy rhythm section you could set your watch to. Meanwhile, front man Ruari Meehan sings with a confidence and talent that could rival that of Kasabian's Tom Meigan or Oasis' Liam Gallagher. And the band's enigmatic bassist and backing vocalist Veronica Avant probably know a thing or two about the latter. Veronica (real name Tatia Starkey) is the daughter of Zak Starkey, who drummed with Oasis until recently and also plays with The Who. Consider the fact that her granddad is Ringo Starr and it becomes obvious why she appears to have been born for the stage (catch them live and you'll see what I mean). I guess many reviewers would have mentioned the fact she's the granddaughter of a Beatle in the first line, but I wanted to give the band the justice they deserve. Interestingly, BelaKiss utilise one of The Beatles' clever tricks towards the end of this track by using a backwards guitar to create a psychedelic feel. However, this band have varied influences, from BRMC to Queens Of The Stone Age and beyond - and, most importantly, they have a strong sound that's all their own. I can't understand why they haven't been discovered yet. IF YOU ONLY NEED TO KNOW ONE THING: Veronica isn't the only rock royalty in the band, vocalist Rauri is the son of Tony Meehan, who drummed with The Shadows. WHERE CAN I GET MY HANDS ON IT: Belakiss are unsigned. FIND MORE: www.myspace.com/belakissband entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article4846605.ece
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Post by waitrose on Nov 10, 2008 14:21:37 GMT -5
I am not sure where to put this, but from Ross Halfin (famous rock photographer)'s online diary (it made me smile): The second night of The Who. Took some photos of Pino and Zak, chatted with Simon Townshend. In the dressing room were Jakob Dylan and sons, plus Dani Harrison who was so public schoolboy posh I thought at first he was putting his accent on - he sounded like Prince Charles, talking about his new house in Malibu (which I'm sure is not a studio flat). I'm only jealous.www.rosshalfin.com/diary/november-2008/diary-november-2008.php
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Post by sayne on Nov 10, 2008 16:37:26 GMT -5
. . . The second night of The Who. I was at that show at the Nokia Theater in Los Angeles. Not sure about his dig against the venue, but he's right about the Who being in top form. They rocked. Did not mail it in. It was as rock should be - LOUD. They still deserve their props.
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Post by waitrose on Nov 10, 2008 16:47:54 GMT -5
I am seeing 3 nights of the Who at the Indio2 in London in the middle of December. I can't wait.
Still one of the greatest live acts ever.
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