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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 22, 2011 6:28:54 GMT -5
It is so damn ridiculous that LET IT BE has not been released after all this time - just absurd. I still hold onto my theory that the reason for the ignorance is because the powers that be are trying to whitewash the image of The Beatles. To make them the "LOVE, LOVE, LOVE" Fabs.
I think releasing LIB would do them a lot of good in toughening up their new sappy and wholesome image. I think there's enough extra footage of "happier moments" that they could add to the release as "Bonus Footage", if they really need to offset some of the gloom and doom.
Maybe they could open with a new written disclaimer before the start of the film, saying how at this point The Beatles were full of pressures and what not... and that this movie reflects the tensions in the band at the time... but after they shelved LIB, they would go on to work on ABBEY ROAD< which was their happy swan song...
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Post by mikev on Sept 22, 2011 7:18:08 GMT -5
It is so damn ridiculous that LET IT BE has not been released after all this time - just absurd. I still hold onto my theory that the reason for the ignorance is because the powers that be are trying to whitewash the image of The Beatles. To make them the "LOVE, LOVE, LOVE" Fabs. I think releasing LIB would do them a lot of good in toughening up their new sappy and wholesome image. I think there's enough extra footage of "happier moments" that they could add to the release as "Bonus Footage", if they really need to offset some of the gloom and doom. Maybe they could open with a new written disclaimer before the start of the film, saying how at this point The Beatles were full of pressures and what not... and that this movie reflects the tensions in the band at the time... but after they shelved LIB, they would go on to work on ABBEY ROAD< which was their happy swan song... I'm baffled. Paul did Helter Skelter to out rock the Who. I would think the later images of bearded grungy looking Beatles rocking out on the roof top would show a "cooler" side of them that young people don't see, but then again it is all on You Tube. Even Beach Boy documentaries feature that late 60s early 70s era where they look like the Grateful Dead.
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wooltonian
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Post by wooltonian on Sept 22, 2011 11:53:39 GMT -5
I don't actually think that the film is as 'gloom and doom' as its reputation would suggest. Really, the only moment of out-and out-discord is that short scene between Paul and George - and even that is hardly earth-shattering. The rooftop performance is vibrant and historic and as for the rest of the film, the Fabs, or their representatives could cut, edit, add-in and take away scenes for a bonus disc as they saw fit. Bands regularly talk in interviews about the tensions and arguments that afflict them and that are part and parcel of the creative process. I was reading only last weekend Coldplay talking frankly and openly about their rows in the early years and how it shaped the band and created the great music on their first couple of albums. I honestly think this aversion to 'Let it be' amongst some of the Beatle hierarchy is nothing more than lazy prejudice and sloppy judgment based on perceived wisdom of what the film is supposed to depict and represent. Even Macca in the Anthology DVD says that Let it be shows 'a band breaking up', which I'm not sure it does. I'll bet you none of them have even watched the film in its entirety in the past forty-odd years!
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Post by vectisfabber on Sept 22, 2011 12:23:52 GMT -5
I watched it several times when it first came out, and not once did I think it showed a band breaking up. Or a group.
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lowbasso
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Post by lowbasso on Sept 22, 2011 12:24:45 GMT -5
I would like to see the complete Rooftop Concert released as a DVD with the sound remixed a la the DVD Anthologies. This is probably the most commercially viable product from the original LIB movie. The rest of the film does not contain material that would be of sufficient interest to the general public of 2011 to generate the sales that Sony/Apple would feel justifies remaking it. Add to that the surviving Beatles and the widows have no real interest in releasing the film in its original format. The only people who would buy the complete original film would be hard core fans and we just don't have the numbers anymore after 40+ years to ring up sufficient profits for Apple. But I do expect to see The Rooftop Concert to be released at some point, maybe on its Golden Anniversary in 2019 as one of the last Beatles products to come on the market. While I agree that the rooftop concert is must see, you can't leave out the performances of the next day, including Let it Be, Long and Winding Road and Two of Us. In addition, at least show the performances of For You Blue and Dig it and alternate takes of the rooftop songs performed in Apple. I would also show the filmed versions of the two Abbey Road songs that were tracked, Oh Darling and She Came in Through the Bedroom Window. This is all great stuff- to see it performed as well- can't see any thing negative there. Those clips you mention could all be extras in a DVD release of The Rooftop Concert. I just think promoting the concert remixed as a product will be the most profitable option for the powers that be. And I am sure Paul and Ringo and the widows would all be up for that as well as the other MTV-style music videos that came out of the film added in as extras. Apple/Sony might also consider the '65 Shea concert and the '69 Rooftop concert both remixed as a product for one DVD release. And do it say in 2015 on the 50th Anniversary of the Shea concert. But the film LIB as it was done originally for release in 1970 with all the studio banter just doesn't seem like a profitable idea after so much time as passed. We fanatics will just have to be happy with our old VHS versions, (which I still have) transferred to DVD in order to view the film as it was originally released.
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wooltonian
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Post by wooltonian on Sept 22, 2011 14:02:37 GMT -5
I watched it several times when it first came out, and not once did I think it showed a band breaking up. Or a group. I'm absolutely sure you're right....and if it had have done, they wouldn't have put it out in the first place.
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lowbasso
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Post by lowbasso on Sept 22, 2011 18:50:51 GMT -5
I watched it several times when it first came out, and not once did I think it showed a band breaking up. Or a group. I'm absolutely sure you're right....and if it had have done, they wouldn't have put it out in the first place. In hindsight, Paul did say in an interview for the Anthology DVD's he now considers the film showing the band breaking up. So at least one Beatle now holds that opinion. At the time of its release, John, often in a drug haze, had no real interest in the band anymore. And George was fed up with Paul's critcism, not to mention his primary interests were far from any current Beatle projects. Did they even bother to screen the film? If they did, did they really care what impression the film left on viewers? I didn't think it showed a band breaking up either when I saw it in 1970, but I didn't really believe The Beatles would ever truly break up, right up until Dec. 1980, I always thought they would get back together and at least record again. Now, with 20/20 hindsight, when I watch the film, well, you see four guys really burned out (well, maybe three guys) and ready for a new direction without the others. And I can understand why they felt that way now as well. What is really astounding is that they pulled it together to make the Abbey Road album so well, after LIB. That has always amazed me.
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Post by debjorgo on Sept 22, 2011 19:42:02 GMT -5
I think the big problem with Let it Be was that it starts off so boring. How long do they take setting up Ringo's drums. And then Paul starts playing that dirge on the piano. I think it shows the band breaking up because that's how they decided to cut it. The break-up was big news at the time. Everyone here, I think, has seen all the youtube footage and know that there was some good times being had.
Why not bill it that way now. "The biggest band in the world are falling apart. Let it Be, the Beatles self-distruct."
I would have to do some cuts. Get that drum set-up down to 5 seconds.
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Post by mikev on Sept 22, 2011 21:31:27 GMT -5
I think the big problem with Let it Be nwa that it starts off so boring. How long do they take setting up Ringo's drums. And then Paul starts playing that dirge on the piano. I think it shows the band breaking up because that how they decided to cut it. The break-up was big news at the time. Everyone here, I think, has seen all the youtube footage and know that there was some good times being had. Why not beill it that way now. "The biggest band in the world are falling apart. Let it Be, the Beatles self-distruct." I would have to do some cuts. Get that drum set-up down to 5 seconds. Quite honestly- the first half of the movie sucks. It is dreary, grainy, choppy and generally out of sync. They did complete rehearsals of songs even in the early days. Why not get the nagra material, sharpen it up, sync it properly. I would love to see them do All Thnigs Must Pass, most specfically the Black Album version we all have heard with the jingling piano at the beginning. Paul's version of I'm So Tired, a complete run through of Perkins' Gone Gone Gone, I Lost My Little Girls yada yada yada. But getting back to my first post in the thread, I love to plop in the DVD and just watch finished numbers in real stereo. Much more enjoyable.
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Post by vectisfabber on Sept 23, 2011 3:21:49 GMT -5
Mike, you can't sync it properly - even though the audio is continuous, the film isn't. Film stock was much more expensive than audio tape, so the two camera crews were under instructions to film in short shots during rehearsals, hence the multitude of sync beeps and camera identifications on the Nagra tapes.
Not so for the rooftop or the following day, however, all of which was filmed in whole-song shots.
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wooltonian
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Post by wooltonian on Sept 23, 2011 12:22:18 GMT -5
If the whole 'Let it be' thing is so toxic to the Beatle 'powers-that-be', then how about releasing a DVD-plus-documentary of the rooftop performance as a stand-alone. This is one of the most famous live performances of all time and shows the band in a great light...
..to be honest, if I owned such a DVD, I doubt I be that bothered about all the Twickenham stuff / Nagra reels / coloured lights etc.
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Post by mikev on Sept 23, 2011 14:11:09 GMT -5
Mike, you can't sync it properly - even though the audio is continuous, the film isn't. Film stock was much more expensive than audio tape, so the two camera crews were under instructions to film in short shots during rehearsals, hence the multitude of sync beeps and camera identifications on the Nagra tapes. Not so for the rooftop or the following day, however, all of which was filmed in whole-song shots. I think we've had this discussion before. So basically, even "tracked" stuff at Apple before the last two days was not filmed in its entirety?
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Post by mikev on Sept 23, 2011 14:36:28 GMT -5
I read Sulpy's book and I guess since his book was based on listening to tapes, he didn't say much about the filming end.
In hindsight Lindsay-Hogg should have had video tape cameras running as well. I wonder how "cheap" video tape was in those days? I'm pretty certain he used both video tape and film for the promos for Revolution and Hey Jude.
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lowbasso
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Post by lowbasso on Sept 23, 2011 19:24:44 GMT -5
If the whole 'Let it be' thing is so toxic to the Beatle 'powers-that-be', then how about releasing a DVD-plus-documentary of the rooftop performance as a stand-alone. This is one of the most famous live performances of all time and shows the band in a great light... ..to be honest, if I owned such a DVD, I doubt I be that bothered about all the Twickenham stuff / Nagra reels / coloured lights etc. Couldn't agree with you more sir!
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Post by debjorgo on Sept 23, 2011 21:30:32 GMT -5
One of my favorite boot tracks from the Get Back sessions is that Sausages/French Fries song that goes into Honey Hush or Hi Ho Silver, as it's labeled on the disc I have. It has a "sync beep", as vectisfabber calls it. Doesn't that mean that there is video of the song?
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Post by vectisfabber on Sept 24, 2011 6:18:00 GMT -5
Not necessarily - they might have been filming something else. The sync beep on the Nagra tapes matches a flashing red light on the clapperboard (which beeps rather than claps) and enables the editor to match the same place on the film and tape - to sync(hronise) sound and image. But if they were filming something else rather than the recording, then there wouldn't be film of that song. What is more likely is that there would be film of that song, but it wouldn't be the whole thing - it would likely stop after less than a minute, although the Nagra would just keep running. When filming resumed there would be another sync beep.
To be pedantic, there was no video, it was all 16mm film. As Mike suggested, video would perhaps have been more sensible: it would certainly have been cheaper. In these days of cheap HD digital image recording, it is easy to lose sight of how expensive film was back then.
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Post by debjorgo on Sept 24, 2011 7:53:23 GMT -5
To be pedantic, there was no video, it was all 16mm film. As Mike suggested, video would perhaps have been more sensible: it would certainly have been cheaper. In these days of cheap HD digital image recording, it is easy to lose sight of how expensive film was back then. I was saying video, as in Audio/Video, not video tape. As in, I have the audio. Is there video? If it's not film, it won't look like much on the Blu-ray.
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andyb
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Post by andyb on Sept 24, 2011 9:37:57 GMT -5
I don't know the figure off hand but isn't there at least 80 hours of unique footage/audio available to work with.
Surely the cameramen weren't just filming the coloured wall and they can make the boring bits less boring using the technology of today.
Imagine being in an edit suite back in 1969 with all that material to go through in a linear fashion.
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 24, 2011 12:51:57 GMT -5
The possibilities are endless and that's what is so frustrating. I would want any reissue to have the original film on Disc 1, albeit restored as much as possible with bad edits and all still intact. LIB as an existing film is a fact, the Fab camps and us fans must deal with it but at least it could be cleaned up. We don't want Casablanca colorized or changed at all; same with the "official" LIB film. The fun would really come with all of the "Extras" possibilities for the other discs in such a LIB comp. From what has been written here, what a joy if the "best of the rest" footage was provided as Bonus features. I would like to see this project released with at least one of the ex-Beatles alive.
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Post by mikev on Sept 24, 2011 16:17:18 GMT -5
The possibilities are endless and that's what is so frustrating. I would want any reissue to have the original film on Disc 1, albeit restored as much as possible with bad edits and all still intact. LIB as an existing film is a fact, the Fab camps and us fans must deal with it but at least it could be cleaned up. We don't want Casablanca colorized or changed at all; same with the "official" LIB film. The fun would really come with all of the "Extras" possibilities for the other discs in such a LIB comp. From what has been written here, what a joy if the "best of the rest" footage was provided as Bonus features. I would like to see this project released with at least one of the ex-Beatles alive. how about US being alive?
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Post by mikev on Sept 24, 2011 16:20:07 GMT -5
To be pedantic, there was no video, it was all 16mm film. As Mike suggested, video would perhaps have been more sensible: it would certainly have been cheaper. In these days of cheap HD digital image recording, it is easy to lose sight of how expensive film was back then. I was saying video, as in Audio/Video, not video tape. As in, I have the audio. Is there video? If it's not film, it won't look like much on the Blu-ray. but I was referring to video tape. Both Revolution and Hey Jude were also video taped and the quality was pretty well preserved. I think Japan was video taped too-there are some pristine prints floating around. Unfortunately the only one of real quality on You Tube was overdubbed with rap
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Post by debjorgo on Sept 24, 2011 16:51:02 GMT -5
I was saying video, as in Audio/Video, not video tape. As in, I have the audio. Is there video? If it's not film, it won't look like much on the Blu-ray. but I was referring to video tape. Both Revolution and Hey Jude were also video taped and the quality was pretty well preserved. I think Japan was video taped too-there are some pristine prints floating around. Unfortunately the only one of real quality on You Tube was overdubbed with rap I thought video tape was pretty hidious in the sixties. The Twilight Zone, and I'm sure a few others, tried to use it and it was not up to their standards. And this was for broadcast tv in the sixties. It would have been nice to have video of all the sessions, video tape or not. Are you saying there was not video taping of the sessions, because I thought there was. Some of the outtake bonus material we're all talking about seeing here, looks like video tape was the original source.
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Post by mikev on Sept 24, 2011 22:03:07 GMT -5
I have seen a lot of b & w clips, but not video tape. I could be wrong, but nowhere in Sulpy's book is there any mention of additional cameras.
Also, it was Kinescope that was pretty crappy in the 60s, which was a process of filming off of a television monitor.
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 25, 2011 13:16:00 GMT -5
What would be cool is if Paul, Ringo, Yoko and Olivia start getting some tough questions from the Press on LIB.
The Press fawn over these people and if the LIB movie is asked about it is so meek and the Fab or Widow give some flippant remark and the journalist quickly moves on to the next banal topic.
I would follow-up before they go on to their favorite color:
"Wait a minute, do you know ______(insert name of Fab or Widow) that the hardcore fans out there, the people that support your lifestyle, want a cool, expansive LIB movie reissue with lots of bonus features? Do you realize that?
Do you not understand that these fans don't want distractions like LOVE and that waste of money crap film called All Together Now and all other minor, side projects?!
Why are you letting others make all of the money off LIB with illegal versions? What about MMT? What about the song promo videos?"
That's why I don't get to interview these people but I wish someone would question them hard on LIB. A great lead-off question would be, "Paul, why in the name of God is the LIB movie still not available commercially in the kind of quality we saw peeps of on Anthology? What's the hold up?
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lowbasso
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Post by lowbasso on Sept 25, 2011 13:37:45 GMT -5
What would be cool is if Paul, Ringo, Yoko and Olivia start getting some tough questions from the Press on LIB. The Press fawn over these people and if the LIB movie is asked about it is so meek and the Fab or Widow give some flippant remark and the journalist quickly moves on to the next banal topic. I would follow-up before they go on to their favorite color: "Wait a minute, do you know ______(insert name of Fab or Widow) that the hardcore fans out there, the people that support your lifestyle, want a cool, expansive LIB movie reissue with lots of bonus features? Do you realize that? Do you not understand that these fans don't want distractions like LOVE and that waste of money crap film called All Together Now and all other minor, side projects?! Why are you letting others make all of the money off LIB with illegal versions? What about MMT? What about the song promo videos?" That's why I don't get to interview these people but I wish someone would question them hard on LIB. A great lead-off question would be, "Paul, why in the name of God is the LIB movie still not available commercially in the kind of quality we saw peeps of on Anthology? What's the hold up? I loved being distracted by LOVE in Vegas... I've gone there twice now to be distracted. I plan to go back a third time, but I've been distracted by other things.. I also like the waste of money crap fim "All Together Now". I've watched that crap film many times.
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Post by winstonoboogie on Sept 25, 2011 13:55:36 GMT -5
What would be cool is if Paul, Ringo, Yoko and Olivia start getting some tough questions from the Press on LIB. The Press fawn over these people and if the LIB movie is asked about it is so meek and the Fab or Widow give some flippant remark and the journalist quickly moves on to the next banal topic. I would follow-up before they go on to their favorite color: "Wait a minute, do you know ______(insert name of Fab or Widow) that the hardcore fans out there, the people that support your lifestyle, want a cool, expansive LIB movie reissue with lots of bonus features? Do you realize that? Do you not understand that these fans don't want distractions like LOVE and that waste of money crap film called All Together Now and all other minor, side projects?! Why are you letting others make all of the money off LIB with illegal versions? What about MMT? What about the song promo videos?" That's why I don't get to interview these people but I wish someone would question them hard on LIB. A great lead-off question would be, "Paul, why in the name of God is the LIB movie still not available commercially in the kind of quality we saw peeps of on Anthology? What's the hold up? Lowbasso, I'm glad you liked "Love" and "All Together Now" but I agree with JSD. They need an Anderson Cooper (or Bob Costas, or hack, even Mike Wallace, if he would come out of retirement) and hold these people's feet to the fire!
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Post by mikev on Sept 25, 2011 14:06:37 GMT -5
What would be cool is if Paul, Ringo, Yoko and Olivia start getting some tough questions from the Press on LIB. The Press fawn over these people and if the LIB movie is asked about it is so meek and the Fab or Widow give some flippant remark and the journalist quickly moves on to the next banal topic. I would follow-up before they go on to their favorite color: "Wait a minute, do you know ______(insert name of Fab or Widow) that the hardcore fans out there, the people that support your lifestyle, want a cool, expansive LIB movie reissue with lots of bonus features? Do you realize that? Do you not understand that these fans don't want distractions like LOVE and that waste of money crap film called All Together Now and all other minor, side projects?! Why are you letting others make all of the money off LIB with illegal versions? What about MMT? What about the song promo videos?" That's why I don't get to interview these people but I wish someone would question them hard on LIB. A great lead-off question would be, "Paul, why in the name of God is the LIB movie still not available commercially in the kind of quality we saw peeps of on Anthology? What's the hold up? When I got tix for the Paul Ringo reunion at Radio City in 09, a friend of mine from another board actually printed me several black shirts with white bold letters "Put Let it Be Out Now." Though the two never saw it many did at the bar before the show including Mark Lapidos. Got a lot of comments. That was 09 so no one at Apple got the memo...
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wooltonian
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Post by wooltonian on Sept 25, 2011 15:14:55 GMT -5
Do you think there's some sort of 'running order' over at Apple and 'Let it be' just has to wait its turn in the grand schedule, regardless of the film's importance to Beatles fans. In other words - for instance - does the Scorcese George documentary have to come out before the George camp will endorse any new Beatles releases other than straightforward re-mastering updates... ...so once all the 'pet projects' are out of the way then 'Let it be' and the promos DVD may eventually happen. ...so its a question of pecking order, scheduling and politics rather than things being 'ruled out'. (You may say I'm a dreamer.)
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Post by vectisfabber on Sept 25, 2011 17:39:20 GMT -5
I have seen a lot of b & w clips, but not video tape. I could be wrong, but nowhere in Sulpy's book is there any mention of additional cameras. The b/w stuff is almost certainly from work prints: it was common to print to b/w for intermediate purposes as b/w stock was appreciably cheaper than colour. I'm fairly certain that the Get Back/Let It Be project was only ever filmed on 16mm apart from what other film crews may have filmed on newsreel/interview visits to Twickenham. I think Linday-Hogg only used 16mm crews.
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 26, 2011 21:43:18 GMT -5
Do you think there's some sort of 'running order' over at Apple and 'Let it be' just has to wait its turn in the grand schedule, regardless of the film's importance to Beatles fans. In other words - for instance - does the Scorcese George documentary have to come out before the George camp will endorse any new Beatles releases other than straightforward re-mastering updates... ...so once all the 'pet projects' are out of the way then 'Let it be' and the promos DVD may eventually happen. ...so its a question of pecking order, scheduling and politics rather than things being 'ruled out'. (You may say I'm a dreamer.) Good point. But how many pet projects does George get? LOVE was George's ideal and this new documentary is obviously a feather in the cap of the Harrison Estate. I bet LetIt Be...Naked was Paul's pet project. John had that documentary Imagine as far back as 1988 and many other pet projects. When does Ringo get a pet project to further delay LIB? ;D
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