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Post by Panther on Sept 24, 2008 21:31:16 GMT -5
So, how do all you Beatle-ers rate John's Mind Games (1973)? Peter Doggett, in his The Art and Music of John Lennon (2005 -- a pretty good book), describes it as having the mood of "ennui", and as being "high-class hackwork". I tend to agree.
I'd say three songs are very good: "Mind Games", "Intuition", and "Out The Blue" (and I've only recently come around to the charms of the latter, which is really rather good).
"Bring On The Lucie" is pretty good, but has a feeling of self-parody about it compared to his frequently off-base but highly committed anthems/protest-songs of just 2 or 3 years earlier. It's like the cartoon-version of peacenick John (except for that "jerking off each other" line).
And I think the rest of the album is more-or-less rubbish (to speak British).
I used to think "One Day (at a Time)" was good, but upon recent listening it has become almost unlistenably lame --- like something Celine Dion would use as filler.
The rest of the album I find boring or uninspired. It's pretty much a warning sign when a major artist releases an album of almost entirely old or recycled ideas.
Anyway, I just wondered what y'all make of this one. I've started to think that Sometime in New York City is better than Mind Games (which doesn't say much for the latter). And certainly Walls and Bridges seems to have more inspiration and superior musicianship than its predecessor...
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Post by ursamajor on Sept 24, 2008 21:56:01 GMT -5
I never liked Mind Games when I first bought it but the remaster has changed my opinion of it.
The only songs I don't like are Bring on the Lucie, One Day at A Time and Only People.
The rest is pretty damn good in my opinion.
This the best place that you will find some under rated and hidden gems as far as Lennon ballads go.
Meat City is also a great rocker. If the album had another two songs like Meat City it would have been fantastic.
I personally like I Know, I Know, You Are Here, Aisumasen, Out the Blue and Intuition great ballads.
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Post by mikev on Sept 24, 2008 23:14:08 GMT -5
Meat City is the only rocker on the album. John was writing pop not much harder than Paul, but more biting and cynical lyrics until Band on the Run.
Personally I like the album, but the remaster gave it a little more soul with the keyboards punched out.
Walls and Bridges is my favorite Lennon album from beginning to end-but I have yet to purchase the remaster.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2008 9:11:37 GMT -5
Mind Games as a song has always been one of my favourite John songs.The album is a bit inconsistent and some of the songs are a bit self indulgent but as an artist he was telling us that was where he was at in that particular moment of time...
Out of all of John's solo albums i still Walls and Bridges is the best one....
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Post by theoak on Sept 25, 2008 10:21:56 GMT -5
I think I Know (I Know) is fantastic. Mind Games, Out The Blue, and You Are Here are also very good.
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Post by pbirdchat on Sept 25, 2008 10:31:10 GMT -5
I bought Mind Games when it first came out in 73'. I was a freshmen in high school and absolutly loved it. I always smiled when John sang " All my life's been a long slow knife". Great vocal!
The guitar solo on Tight As is a Telecaster masterpiece and although I think the remaster did improve the album, the Tight As solo misses a finger sliding down the neck during a pause in a guitar phrase. I wonder why they mixed that out?
Aisumasen is a cool blues track with another great guitar solo and bass line.
All in all, if listened on good equipment in the remastered format, I think Maind Games is very good album with that Record Plant sound that I could often hear in Blue Oyster Cult albums.
Darren D'Rito
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Sept 25, 2008 13:26:02 GMT -5
I always liked Tight As, I Know I Know (which I think is directed at Paul), Out the Blue, Intuition and Mind Games. I used to like Only People and Bring on the Lucie when I first bought the album in '73, but they haven't aged well. One Day at at Time is just too simple, Meat City never really gets going for me, You Are Here and Aussimasin (I'm Sorry) are deadly dull. Is that all of it? Five good tracks out of 11 is not bad. I'm not saying any of these are at Beatles level quality, but they are good.
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Post by vectisfabber on Sept 26, 2008 3:24:33 GMT -5
Never cared for Mind Games. I thought it was Lennon's weakest work ever when it first came out. Then he produced SINYC.
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Post by joeyself on Sept 26, 2008 6:56:24 GMT -5
As far as popping one into the CD player and listening for pleasure, MIND GAMES is the one I'd reach for first. POB is too personal for me to enjoy, the production of IMAGINE leaves me a bit cold, SINYC is largely awful, W&B is too whiny, ROCK 'n' ROLL is pleasant enough, and DOUBLE FANTASY is not half-bad, meaning that it is not half-good, too. MIND GAMES wins almost by default. That said, I like much of it, even the filler. Never cared for Mind Games. I thought it was Lennon's weakest work ever when it first came out. Then he produced SINYC. Nope, SINYC is 1972, MIND GAMES was from '73. JcS
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Post by jimc on Sept 26, 2008 19:33:00 GMT -5
I like -- no, love -- the title track, but it dates back to 1970, which makes me wonder how much of this material was "current" for Lennon. Was he just meeting a deadline? I'll have to look back at the Playboy interview, but I seem to remember him referring to this, maybe other LPs, as craftsmanship, hackwork, rather arising from inspiration.
That said, I also like Intuition, Tight As, Meat City and a couple of the others. And the remaster does improve this record a lot.
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Post by johnpaulharstar on Sept 27, 2008 21:13:57 GMT -5
I think MIND GAMES as a whole is rather average. I really like the song, "Mind Games", especially the lyric, "Yes is the answer". It was nice to hear John being positive. My very favorite song is "Bring On The Lucie" and I'm always surprised that some people don't like it (like several posters above). I think it has a great riff. John again sounds like he's having fun. The "...jerking off each other..." line is priceless! "Intuition" and "Out The Blue" are good, but nothing else does much for me.
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Post by mikev on Sept 28, 2008 11:54:35 GMT -5
The first time I heard Bring on the Lucie-I thought it was George H. on slide. I like that song and Out the Blue (which reminds me a bit of Sexie Sadie).
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 29, 2008 0:59:41 GMT -5
The remixed and remastered Mind Games absolutely reinvigorates this album in my opinion. The effect is even more dramatic on Rock -n- Roll as the improvements there make that album: a once sonically dead album of oldie covers that seemed a drag became instantly vital, fun and rocking. Mind Games the album is Imagine the album redux but not as successfully. Both albums were influenced by John realizing that he may have gone too far the album before and his trying to reach out to his Beatle base of fans as if to say, "Hey, the 'Dream Weaver' is back." Perhaps even more than on Imagine, John really goes for a contemporary(for 1973) pop sound on Mind Games. What an amazing contrast between MG and Sometime In New York City although there are some politics on MG like "Bring On The Lucie(Freda Peeple)" and "Only People." My main beef with MG is the wimpy musical backing and chorus of male and female singers(credited to "Something Different") for many of the songs. Obviously Ken Ascher is a great keyboardist but his playing on a song like "Intuition"(a promising song but for the musical production) sounds lounge lizardish. The musical backings on "One Day At A Time" and "Only People" are likewise lightweight. My thoughts on the songs: 1. Mind Games: A great, great track and one of my favorite John songs of any period of his career. The lyrics are wonderfully positive and in places dramatic. On the remix I can hear Ken Ascher's organ and he earns his pay on this song. I loved this song from hearing it on WLS Chicago in 1973 before I even knew who John Lennon really was! This is also poignant to me as it was the first song I heard immediately after hearing the announcement that John was dead, murdered in front of his home. 2. Tight A$: A good rocker. I really loved this when I first heard it in 1976 or so in a schoolboy way. Later I disliked it for that same reason: I thought it immature and sexist. I am back to liking it because I am thinking like a schoolboy again. 3. Aisumasen(I'm Sorry): I have liked the overall sound on this, i.e. the lead guitar and John's singing. The lyrics are slightly vexing to me now as it is John once again being so needy and over-dependent on his spouse. John had already written the ultimate apology song in "Jealous Guy." 4. One Day At A Time: I don't like the lyrics, the wimpy musical backing, the terrible backing singers, the plodding tempo of the song and John's falsetto! I like the version better where John sings in his normal voice although that doesn't help as to the lyrics. 5. Bring On The Lucie(Freda Peeple): Another one I loved as a kid but then grew distant to. I am back to liking it. There is a really awesome alternate version featured prominently in the 2006 sci-fi thriller Children of Men. I wonder if that is the version from Lennon Anthology? It is really good and helps the film. 6. Intuition: I like the lyrics but the musical backing about kills this song for me. I also have not been crazy about the beginning line, "Hey, hey, hey, hey, alright!" I can see Bill Murray do that in the SNL skit. This song needed to be edgier musically in my opinion. 7. Out Of The Blue: A pretty good ballad that picks up the tempo. I don't care for the UFO mention or the too cutesy, agnostic, "Every day, I thank the Lord and Lady." 8. Only People: This is pretty bad. A campfire protest song or one that could be sung at halftime of the Rose Bowl by, of course, Up With People. ;D I could just see and hear those fresh-faced, well scrubbed young singers singing, "We don't need no pig brother scene." 9. I Know(I Know): I love this song. It is an underrated Lennon classic. I too believe that it is aimed at least in part to Paul McCartney. It is stirring to me. 10. You Are Here: This is a pretty song, one I like a lot better as an adult than I did as a kid. The backing singers suck again though. Lose them and this might be a classic. 11. Meat City: Not a bad rocker although more work could have been done on the lyrics. Overall it sounds good but best not to dissect it though(which is true of much of the album). I think that there are only two real clunkers and songs like "Intuition" and "You Are Here" would have been much better with better musical backing or better(or no) backing singers. I'd say accordingly that Mind Games in the remixed and remastered form is pretty good. I hated the sonics on the old Apple LP and the first c.d. version and that affected my overall opinion of the album.
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Post by ursamajor on Sept 29, 2008 19:57:19 GMT -5
After reading these differing views do you think any of John's albums were atrocious ?
I mean that from a rock star of his calibre.
I kind of like how some are great POB/Imagine/DF, one in particular is considered really bad SINYC and the other two divide most fans MG/W&B.
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Post by ursamajor on Sept 29, 2008 20:02:00 GMT -5
The effect is even more dramatic on Rock -n- Roll as the improvements there make that album: a once sonically dead album of oldie covers that seemed a drag became instantly vital, fun and rocking. Hey John, you know what I agree with you here. I really love the remastered Rock'n'Roll. My favourites that i never gave a chance before are Bony Moronie - it is quite a snarling rendition - go Winston !! Also Peggy Sue sounds modern for an oldie style track and Bring It On Home is punchy. Only a couple of sings still sounded muddy, You Can't Catch Me and Ain't That a Shame.. must have been the whole Phil Spector mess and what versions were used I guess.
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Post by mikev on Sept 29, 2008 23:12:51 GMT -5
Funny how Rock -n-Roll with John is big production while Paul chose the raw, simplistic rock-n-roll sound on his rock oldie tribute-drawing a blank on the name-don't feel like looking it up. I think the Russian LP is simple rock too.
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Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Sept 30, 2008 0:10:15 GMT -5
After reading these differing views do you think any of John's albums were atrocious ? I mean that from a rock star of his calibre. I kind of like how some are great POB/Imagine/DF, one in particular is considered really bad SINYC and the other two divide most fans MG/W&B. Atrocious is too strong: none of his albums warrant that. My take is that JL/POB is a magificent work - I almost added "of art"! No less. IMAGINE is OK, an enjoyable work. Quite perceptive of John to refer to its "sugar coating". Sometime in NYC I consider to be quite underrated. If I may quote myself from another thread here, "A great snapshot of those far-off days. An album of passion and commitment." Some folk allow their disagreement with the poltitical views get in their way of appreciating this album. Having said that, many simply can't stand it, it's true, whatever their own views. Mind Games finds John with nothing to say. Someone called Walls and Bridges "whiny". I would say that Mind Games takes the cake for John in his "whiny, I'm sorry Yoko" vein. And when he's not on the whine, he's empty. For mine, Mind Games is THE low point. But still not atrocious! Walls & Bridges is nice, like Imagine is, with a touch of bitterness thrown in. An interesting album. Rock N Roll, no matter how much remastered, is still rock-and-roll without verve and energy and ... I don't know, sheer fun I guess. That is really the end of John Lennon's career for me. DF and M&H are - well, I've said enough already!
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Joseph McCabe
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A rebel to his last breath ...
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Sept 30, 2008 0:18:07 GMT -5
Funny how Rock -n-Roll with John is big production while Paul chose the raw, simplistic rock-n-roll sound on his rock oldie tribute-drawing a blank on the name-don't feel like looking it up. I think the Russian LP is simple rock too. Yes, and neither of them quite grab it, do they? Strange days indeed! When I listen to CHOBBA I want to listen to John's album, then when I'm listening to that I think, nah I want Run Devil Run. Then when I'm there, I think how about CHOBBA!! Which maybe proves rock n roll is a young man's game. I bet John was rocking harder at the Woolton fete, than on the RnR album. And I bet when Paul played Twenty Flight Rock to John, it produced a shiver-up-your-spine - unlike the version on CHOBBA.
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Post by winstonoboogie on Sept 30, 2008 20:59:53 GMT -5
The effect is even more dramatic on Rock -n- Roll as the improvements there make that album: a once sonically dead album of oldie covers that seemed a drag became instantly vital, fun and rocking. My favourites that i never gave a chance before are Bony Moronie - it is quite a snarling rendition - go Winston !! . Why, thank you. ;D
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 11, 2008 9:21:45 GMT -5
I like MIND GAMES overall, though I think the LP as a whole is middle-tier Lennon, not his best stuff.
I love AISUMASEN, which doesn't get enough love IMO.
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