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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 28, 2012 15:58:02 GMT -5
Wow, I love BLONDIE and I didn't realize Debbie Harry was such a c-word about that! Of course she should have let the real, true members of the old BLONDIE play. The guitarist Frank Infante was right... THEY were the ones who got inducted, and THEY were the musicians during BLONDIE's success.
An amazing clip. Thanks, Steve, for making me aware of it.
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Post by Snookeroo on Feb 28, 2012 20:16:38 GMT -5
Wonderful. So the guys in the Ventures are nicer guys than the Beatles. Bad Beatles. The Ventures are not a group where the individual members are household names, like the Beatles are. Thanking the guy who drummed on what is arguably their most well known song makes sense. When the Eagles got in they had Bernie Leadon there. He was part of thje pre-Hotel California line-up. Lots of hits. Fleetwood Mac had the great Peter Green along when they got in. He gave the band it's name, and built the original band. He wrote BLACK MAGIC WOMAN. Pete Best is not to the Beatles what guys like that were to their band. Pete Best drummed on NONE of their well known recordings. In fact, after Ringo came in they came to redo some of the Best-ear stuff with versions that blew-away the earlier stuff. How'd that happen?? Y'know, it occurs to me that when Pete walked away wounded from Brian's office that day....the best thing he could possibly have done to change his place in rock history would have been to prove to the world that he had the chops. He had a golden opportunity to put a freaking hot band together, what with all his vast managment knowledge that we are led to believe he had as Beatle drummer. Not to mention his mom who owned this smokin' hot club and knew how to develop talent. Why didn't Neil jump right in and work on the building of the Best empire? HE STAYED WITH THE BEATLES FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Do we know FOR SURE just how many bands came knocking on Pete's door after this mighty pillar of percussion was cut loose from the Beatles? Maybe he could have been Rory Storm's new beat-keeper. Seriously BATB. That Ventures thing was truly grasping at straws. And there's the incident of Debbie Harry absolutely refusing to let past members of Blondie to play at their induction. (see below) The Beatles isn't the same thing. Pete was fired. Really, that's the end of the argument as far as the Rock Hall goes. You can argue the particulars all you want, but he was fired. I hadn't seen that Steve. It's unfortunate when a band ends up going through nasty things and then to drag it in front of an audience like that looks bad. It was a similar situation when CCR was inducted. Fogerty ended up doing a Creedence set with other people. He didn't want the two surviving CCR guys with him. In the Beatles case, you are right - Pete was fired. I was fired from a job once also. Funny, but they never invited me back for anything. You don't get fired and then get called back for an award in this world. It seems clear that after they let Pete go they decided to make it a clean and permanent severing of ties (as all firings tend to be), and it remains like that today.
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Post by mikev on Feb 28, 2012 21:21:05 GMT -5
And there's the incident of Debbie Harry absolutely refusing to let past members of Blondie to play at their induction. (see below) The Beatles isn't the same thing. Pete was fired. Really, that's the end of the argument as far as the Rock Hall goes. You can argue the particulars all you want, but he was fired. I hadn't seen that Steve. It's unfortunate when a band ends up going through nasty things and then to drag it in front of an audience like that looks bad. It was a similar situation when CCR was inducted. Fogerty ended up doing a Creedence set with other people. He didn't want the two surviving CCR guys with him. In the Beatles case, you are right - Pete was fired. I was fired from a job once also. Funny, but they never invited me back for anything. You don't get fired and then get called back for an award in this world. It seems clear that after they let Pete go they decided to make it a clean and permanent severing of ties (as all firings tend to be), and it remains like that today. I do remember the Blondie thing now. awkward!!!!! But Fogerty was still bitter with the other two (and his own brother) for siding with the record company during the disputes. Fogerty was CCR, and when he gave the rest of the guys some democracy the band tanked.
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Post by John S. Damm on Feb 28, 2012 21:32:27 GMT -5
That situation with Blondie causes me grave concern for when The Partridge Family is inducted into the RRHF! Is it going to be Jeremy Gelbwaks or Brian Forster on drums.
Take a page from Ringo's solo career and have two drummers!
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Feb 28, 2012 21:55:21 GMT -5
I hadn't seen that Steve. It's unfortunate when a band ends up going through nasty things and then to drag it in front of an audience like that looks bad. It was a similar situation when CCR was inducted. Fogerty ended up doing a Creedence set with other people. He didn't want the two surviving CCR guys with him. In the Beatles case, you are right - Pete was fired. I was fired from a job once also. Funny, but they never invited me back for anything. You don't get fired and then get called back for an award in this world. It seems clear that after they let Pete go they decided to make it a clean and permanent severing of ties (as all firings tend to be), and it remains like that today. I do remember the Blondie thing now. awkward!!!!! But Fogerty was still bitter with the other two (and his own brother) for siding with the record company during the disputes. Fogerty was CCR, and when he gave the rest of the guys some democracy the band tanked. Fogerty finally seems amenable to making peace with Doug Clifford and Stu Cook, but last I read, they weren't big on the idea. That dispute never should have lasted as long as it did.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Feb 28, 2012 21:57:17 GMT -5
That situation with Blondie causes me grave concern for when The Partridge Family is inducted into the RRHF! Is it going to be Jeremy Gelbwaks or Brian Forster on drums. Take a page from Ringo's solo career and have two drummers! Geez, why the heck wasn't David Cassidy inducted long ago?
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andyb
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Post by andyb on Feb 28, 2012 23:14:03 GMT -5
In the Blondie case I think it was lawsuits from those ex-members that led to them not being asked.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 28, 2012 23:23:30 GMT -5
In the Blondie case I think it was lawsuits from those ex-members that led to them not being asked. I did more research afterward and read about that, yeah. Wasn't it something about the ex-members trying to sue in 1999 because they were not part of the new BLONDIE? That too was not cool to pull, unless there was a legal contract or something that had been violated by Debbie Harry & Chris Stein. But otherwise, I suppose Harry and Stein had the right to enlist whoever they wanted. It just seems wrong to shun the members who played on BLONDIE's biggest records at the HOF though. Hmmmm.
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Post by mikev on Feb 29, 2012 1:12:02 GMT -5
That situation with Blondie causes me grave concern for when The Partridge Family is inducted into the RRHF! Is it going to be Jeremy Gelbwaks or Brian Forster on drums. Take a page from Ringo's solo career and have two drummers! I think they tanked when Don King took over management from Kincaid and set up a series of boxing matches: Danny Partridge vs. Johnny bravo aka Greg Brady Laurie Partridge in a cat fight with Marcia Brady Shirley Partridge vs. Alice the Maid
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andyb
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Post by andyb on Feb 29, 2012 7:24:09 GMT -5
In the Blondie case I think it was lawsuits from those ex-members that led to them not being asked. I did more research afterward and read about that, yeah. Wasn't it something about the ex-members trying to sue in 1999 because they were not part of the new BLONDIE? That too was not cool to pull, unless there was a legal contract or something that had been violated by Debbie Harry & Chris Stein. But otherwise, I suppose Harry and Stein had the right to enlist whoever they wanted. It just seems wrong to shun the members who played on BLONDIE's biggest records at the HOF though. Hmmmm. If I remember correctly from the documentary, relationships hadn't been good for a long while, and it was strange to watch them try and muscle their way onto the stage.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 29, 2012 8:03:04 GMT -5
I understand about BLONDIE's personal problems, but it seems that it might have been nice to bury the hatchet just for the sake of the HOF ceremony and let the older members play with the new band for one special evening honoring the contributions that everyone made to the band's success. After all, Infante and Harrison were the ones who played on BLONDIE's greatest albums and hits! The new kids on the block are basically wannabe's.
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Post by beatlesattheirbest on Feb 29, 2012 11:26:57 GMT -5
Not ducking Beatles questions, just swamped with work this week. I did want to say, re: The Ventures. Funny stuff. So as usual, you take one thing (molehill) and make a grandiose mountain out of it. The Ventures??? You've got to be kidding! YOU'VE gotta be kidding!!! What do you have against The Ventures? They are only the biggest selling instrumental Rock & Roll band in the history of the world. "The band that launched a thousand bands".The Ventures have released over 250 albums and have sold well over 100 million records. They helped launch the "Surf Rock" sound in the early 60's (charted 34 different albums in that decade alone). They sold over 40 million records in Japan alone becoming the first foreign members of Japan's Conservatory of Music (not suprising since during the height of Beatlemania, The Ventures were outselling The Beatles in Japan 2 to 1). Released the first single to use a fuzz-box guitar (The 2,000 Pound Bee - 1962) and even used 'reverse-tracking' BEFORE your/our beloved Beatles. (The Ventures In Space - 1964). “The Ventures' guitars knock me out.” -George HarrisonIn addition to being among groups to influence The Beatles, The Ventures have another interesting link to their history. When Astrid, Klaus and Jurgen first wanted to meet The Beatles, they spoke little English and didn't know how to approach the guys. So Klaus brought a record to show them. He had designed the artwork on the cover and hoped to use it to break the ice. He showed it to John Lennon. Lennon redirected him to Stu saying "He's the artist in the group". Stu was interested and they all became friends. That record was the German release of The Ventures "Walk Don't Run". (Klaus would go on to win a Grammy for designing The Beatles "Revolver" album, played bass for John Lennon in the 70's and also co-designed The Beatles Anthology artwork in the 90's.) The Ventures are not a group where the individual members are household names, like the Beatles are. Thanking the guy who drummed on what is arguably their most well known song makes sense. Not true. Although The Ventures have had many members thru the years, the core is Bob Bogle, Don Wilson, Mel Taylor, Nokie Edwards & Gerry McGee (they were the 5 members inducted). Edwards & Wilson are still in the group 50+ years later. The others are deceased. Also, Howie Johnson and Skip Moore, BOTH of the drummers who were in The Ventures before Mel Taylor were each thanked by name ON STAGE as the group accepted their Hall of Fame trophies. Not just the guy who played on "Walk Don't Run" (Moore). And yes, they are nice, classy guys.
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Post by Zander on Feb 29, 2012 12:06:58 GMT -5
Please can we keep this on topic - we're not here to talk about the Ventures. This is a Pete Best thread...
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Post by beatlesattheirbest on Feb 29, 2012 12:17:31 GMT -5
Please can we keep this on topic - we're not here to talk about the Ventures. This is a Pete Best thread... OK. The Beatles should have had class like The Ventures had. They should have acknowledged/thanked original members Stu Sutcliffe and Pete Best on stage when they accepted their Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction trophies. (better?)
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Post by beatlesattheirbest on Feb 29, 2012 12:30:58 GMT -5
Please can we keep this on topic - we're not here to talk about the Ventures. This is a Pete Best thread... While you're playing moderator, don't forget to correct Snookeroo for discussing Fleetwood Mac, The Eagles & CCR. MikeV for discussing CCR. AndyB and Joe K for discussing Blondie. Oh, don't forget to correct Steve (an administrator). He was discussing CCR, Debby Harry/Blondie and David Cassidy. Oh, and correct John (an actual moderator) too. Didn't he discuss The Partridge Family on this thread? I mean, if you are going to start scolding people, what about everybody else before me?
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Post by mikev on Feb 29, 2012 12:41:37 GMT -5
Please can we keep this on topic - we're not here to talk about the Ventures. This is a Pete Best thread... While you're playing moderator, don't forget to correct Snookeroo for discussing Fleetwood Mac, The Eagles & CCR. MikeV for discussing CCR. AndyB and Joe K for discussing Blondie. Oh, don't forget to correct Steve (an administrator). He was discussing CCR, Debby Harry/Blondie and David Cassidy. Oh, and correct John (an actual moderator) too. Didn't he discuss The Partridge Family on this thread? I mean, if you are going to start scolding people, what about everybody else before me? Sometimes threads go off on a tangent, and some time tangents go off on a thread. Not quite sure here. I just want my "Knighthood"!!!! One more BABY!
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 29, 2012 12:59:51 GMT -5
Sorry to hear you're swamped with work, BATB. That's certainly uinderstandable. But when you get a moment to post a few things (as you did here just now) it would be helpful for us to take you and your film seriously if you would address all the questions people have asked FOR DAYS NOW regarding some of the wild and twisted claims you're making about Pete Best and the early Beatles. You can start out with where you got your information that "Pete missed far less gigs than Paul did" and work your way from there. It must have taken some time to gather your thoughts and quotes about The Ventures. How about putting that time to better use?
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 29, 2012 13:03:01 GMT -5
OK. The Beatles should have had class like The Ventures had. They should have acknowledged/thanked original members Stu Sutcliffe and Pete Best on stage when they accepted their Rock & Roll Hall of Fame induction trophies. See if you can answer this. Why on Earth should the Beatles have to thank Pete and Stu, who never worked with them on the very recorded music history they're being honored at the HOF for? What are you gonna do now, bail out and deflect things by focusing on The Ventures and how THEY changed the world?
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Post by beatlesattheirbest on Feb 29, 2012 13:26:27 GMT -5
Sorry to hear you're swamped with work, BATB. That's certainly uinderstandable. But when you get a moment to post a few things (as you did here just now) it would be helpful for us to take you and your film seriously if you would address all the questions people have asked FOR DAYS NOW regarding some of the wild and twisted claims you're making about Pete Best and the early Beatles. You can start out with where you got your information that "Pete missed far less gigs than Paul did" and work your way from there. It must have taken some time to gather your thoughts and quotes about The Ventures. How about putting that time to better use? Actually it didn't take much time for me to write about The Ventures. I produced their R&R HofF DVD so I am very familiar with their history. I will answer all of your Beatles questions later this week, but as you have said, there are MANY, so I really need a few hours to devote to this in order to answer them all. And for the record Joe, I have been answering all of your comments / questions. I have answered more of your posts than everybody else on the board combined. I am sorry if I can't drop everything I am doing to focus all of my time on you and your posts every time you demand I do so. I work for a living. Oh, and I am putting my time to good use. Currently producing 3-4 stories a week on the NBA's newest superstar / pop culture sensation New York Knick guard Jeremy Lin for TVBS Taiwan TV (Republic of China).
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Post by Snookeroo on Feb 29, 2012 15:27:47 GMT -5
Not ducking Beatles questions, just swamped with work this week. The Ventures are not a group where the individual members are household names, like the Beatles are. Thanking the guy who drummed on what is arguably their most well known song makes sense. Not true. Although The Ventures have had many members thru the years, the core is Bob Bogle, Don Wilson, Mel Taylor, Nokie Edwards & Gerry McGee (they were the 5 members inducted). Edwards & Wilson are still in the group 50+ years later. The others are deceased. And yes, they are nice, classy guys. Yes it is true. YOU know the names of these guys because you were involved with a project on them. They are NOT household names. But wait, I'm a fair guy. Can I get as many here as I can to tell me if they knew the names of those Ventures guys? Be honest. Tel me BATB - was the the extent of the involvement that those two "thanked" members had in the band - and were either of them fired from their job with the band? I like the Ventures BTW. I have a number of their records, on vinyl.
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Post by mikev on Feb 29, 2012 15:41:21 GMT -5
Not ducking Beatles questions, just swamped with work this week. Not true. Although The Ventures have had many members thru the years, the core is Bob Bogle, Don Wilson, Mel Taylor, Nokie Edwards & Gerry McGee (they were the 5 members inducted). Edwards & Wilson are still in the group 50+ years later. The others are deceased. And yes, they are nice, classy guys. Yes it is true. YOU know the names of these guys because you were involved with a project on them. They are NOT household names. But wait, I'm a fair guy. Can I get as many here as I can to tell me if they knew the names of those Ventures guys? Be honest. Tel me BATB - was the the extent of the involvement that those two "thanked" members had in the band - and were either of them fired from their job with the band? I like the Ventures BTW. I have a number of their records, on vinyl. I thought Dick Dale was in the Ventures, but I thought wrong.
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Post by scousette on Feb 29, 2012 15:44:00 GMT -5
Not ducking Beatles questions, just swamped with work this week. Not true. Although The Ventures have had many members thru the years, the core is Bob Bogle, Don Wilson, Mel Taylor, Nokie Edwards & Gerry McGee (they were the 5 members inducted). Edwards & Wilson are still in the group 50+ years later. The others are deceased. And yes, they are nice, classy guys. Yes it is true. YOU know the names of these guys because you were involved with a project on them. They are NOT household names. But wait, I'm a fair guy. Can I get as many here as I can to tell me if they knew the names of those Ventures guys? Be honest. Tel me BATB - was the the extent of the involvement that those two "thanked" members had in the band - and were either of them fired from their job with the band? I like the Ventures BTW. I have a number of their records, on vinyl. I know Nokie Edwards and Bob Bogle -- well, their names. I'm sure all the Ventures are nice guys. My brother had a Ventures guitar instruction LP when he was starting out.
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Post by debjorgo on Feb 29, 2012 20:01:28 GMT -5
Please can we keep this on topic - we're not here to talk about the Ventures. This is a Pete Best thread... Now that's funny. "Beatlesattheirbest" don't change the subject. We're talking about Pete Best."
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Post by Zander on Feb 29, 2012 20:19:35 GMT -5
Yeah - stop changing the subject. We're here to discuss Pete Best and your wrecking it with all this Ventures talk that you started back on Page 6. It's your fault the conversation moved away from Liverpool's second best drummer...
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Post by Snookeroo on Feb 29, 2012 20:28:06 GMT -5
Yeah - stop changing the subject. We're here to discuss Pete Best and your wrecking it with all this Ventures talk that you started back on Page 6. It's your fault the conversation moved away from Liverpool's second best drummer... Liverpool's second best drummer? You mean Paul McCartney ;D
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Post by beatlesattheirbest on Mar 1, 2012 11:24:36 GMT -5
Please can we keep this on topic - we're not here to talk about the Ventures. This is a Pete Best thread... Now that's funny. "Beatlesattheirbest" don't change the subject. We're talking about Pete Best." Even I think that was funny. I am always wandering off and forgeting to talk about Pete.
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Post by Snookeroo on Mar 1, 2012 16:28:36 GMT -5
BATB - a few questions if I may:
You say that the Beatles "sold out". How so?
Are you a fan of them and their music after Ringo came in? It doesn't seem possible.
Do you play, or have you played in a band? Just curious.
Do you know of ANY recorded vocals by Pete Best that you could post.
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Post by beatlesattheirbest on Mar 1, 2012 17:33:19 GMT -5
BATB - a few questions if I may: You say that the Beatles "sold out". How so? Are you a fan of them and their music after Ringo came in? It doesn't seem possible. Do you play, or have you played in a band? Just curious. Do you know of ANY recorded vocals by Pete Best that you could post. The Beatles "sold out" quote was actually John Lennon. Although I referred to it, I left that part out of my earlier quote of Lennon. The entire quote is.. "Our best work was never recorded. Because we were performers in Liverpool, Hamburg and other dance halls. What we generated was fantastic when we played straight rock, and there was nobody to touch us in Britain. As soon as we made it, we made it, but the edges were knocked off. You know, Brian put us in suits and all that, and we made it very, very big. But we sold out, you know. The music was dead before we even went on the theater tour of Britain. We were feeling shit already, because we had to reduce an hour or two hours' playing, which we were glad about in one way, to twenty minutes, and we would go on and repeat the same twenty minutes every night. The Beatles' music died then, as musicians. That's why we never improved as musicians; we killed ourselves then to make it. And that was the end of it."Yes, I am a big fan of The Beatles and have all of their records. It never ceases to amaze me at how many hits they cranked out in such a short period of time or how much they grew as artists from year to year. An incredible output for a recording career that lasted just 7 years (62-69). Truly a phenomenon in and out of the studio unlike anything we will see again in our lifetime. However, unlike many Beatles fans (not directed at you), I think it is possible to be a big fan of John, Paul, George and Ringo and still be a fan of Stu & Pete and also appreciate the significant contributions that they also made in helping The Beatles to make it in their early years. No, I don't play in a band. I took piano lessons as a kid but at the time I was more into sports. I do have a guitar & bass that I tinker around with occasionally, but that's about it. I have a lot of musician friends and my wife is a singer with a band. I have spent a lot of time as a recording engineer over the years and have also produced a few records. Nothing you would have heard of. Since then I have produced music videos for a few acts, some you might have heard of. Music has always been a big part of my life. I do not know of any examples of Pete Best vocals. I do know he never considered himself as a singer and only did so occasionally with The Beatles after being encouraged by the others and only then just to please the fans. On a previous thread someone pointed out (you?) that Ringo had his "Starr Time" and he could do a singing number, unlike Pete who couldn't. I only mentioned Pete could also solo (and did) in response to that other post. I wasn't trying to make Pete out to be a singer. In addition to a few photos showing Pete solo singing, there are also many Beatles photos where you can see a vocal mic in Pete's drum kit. It's reasonable to conclude that he wouldn't need a vocal mic set up if he didn't use it from time to time.
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Post by Snookeroo on Mar 1, 2012 23:44:36 GMT -5
BATB - a few questions if I may: You say that the Beatles "sold out". How so? Are you a fan of them and their music after Ringo came in? It doesn't seem possible. Do you play, or have you played in a band? Just curious. Do you know of ANY recorded vocals by Pete Best that you could post. The Beatles "sold out" quote was actually John Lennon. Although I referred to it, I left that part out of my earlier quote of Lennon. The entire quote is.. "Our best work was never recorded. Because we were performers in Liverpool, Hamburg and other dance halls. What we generated was fantastic when we played straight rock, and there was nobody to touch us in Britain. As soon as we made it, we made it, but the edges were knocked off. You know, Brian put us in suits and all that, and we made it very, very big. But we sold out, you know. The music was dead before we even went on the theater tour of Britain. We were feeling shit already, because we had to reduce an hour or two hours' playing, which we were glad about in one way, to twenty minutes, and we would go on and repeat the same twenty minutes every night. The Beatles' music died then, as musicians. That's why we never improved as musicians; we killed ourselves then to make it. And that was the end of it."Yes, I am a big fan of The Beatles and have all of their records. It never ceases to amaze me at how many hits they cranked out in such a short period of time or how much they grew as artists from year to year. An incredible output for a recording career that lasted just 7 years (62-69). Truly a phenomenon in and out of the studio unlike anything we will see again in our lifetime. However, unlike many Beatles fans (not directed at you), I think it is possible to be a big fan of John, Paul, George and Ringo and still be a fan of Stu & Pete and also appreciate the significant contributions that they also made in helping The Beatles to make it in their early years. No, I don't play in a band. I took piano lessons as a kid but at the time I was more into sports. I do have a guitar & bass that I tinker around with occasionally, but that's about it. I have a lot of musician friends and my wife is a singer with a band. I have spent a lot of time as a recording engineer over the years and have also produced a few records. Nothing you would have heard of. Since then I have produced music videos for a few acts, some you might have heard of. Music has always been a big part of my life. I do not know of any examples of Pete Best vocals. I do know he never considered himself as a singer and only did so occasionally with The Beatles after being encouraged by the others and only then just to please the fans. On a previous thread someone pointed out (you?) that Ringo had his "Starr Time" and he could do a singing number, unlike Pete who couldn't. I only mentioned Pete could also solo (and did) in response to that other post. I wasn't trying to make Pete out to be a singer. In addition to a few photos showing Pete solo singing, there are also many Beatles photos where you can see a vocal mic in Pete's drum kit. It's reasonable to conclude that he wouldn't need a vocal mic set up if he didn't use it from time to time. Well, John talked out the side of his ass about the same number of times he said something brilliant. Let me rephrase the question: Do YOU think they "sold out"?
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 2, 2012 7:29:07 GMT -5
BATB - a few questions if I may: You say that the Beatles "sold out". How so? Are you a fan of them and their music after Ringo came in? It doesn't seem possible. Do you play, or have you played in a band? Just curious. Do you know of ANY recorded vocals by Pete Best that you could post. The Beatles "sold out" quote was actually John Lennon. Although I referred to it, I left that part out of my earlier quote of Lennon. The entire quote is.. "Our best work was never recorded. Because we were performers in Liverpool, Hamburg and other dance halls. What we generated was fantastic when we played straight rock, and there was nobody to touch us in Britain. As soon as we made it, we made it, but the edges were knocked off. You know, Brian put us in suits and all that, and we made it very, very big. But we sold out, you know. The music was dead before we even went on the theater tour of Britain. We were feeling shit already, because we had to reduce an hour or two hours' playing, which we were glad about in one way, to twenty minutes, and we would go on and repeat the same twenty minutes every night. The Beatles' music died then, as musicians. That's why we never improved as musicians; we killed ourselves then to make it. And that was the end of it."Yeah, Mr. Lennon -- the Beatles died then and just went on to record the greatest albums of all time, that's all. Yes... once you got to 1964 or so, "That was the End of it"... sure. Right. "The music was dead".. okay. I'll try to remmeber this the next time I play ALL MY LOVING, IN MY LIFE, HEY JUDE, or HERE COMES THE SUN... Instead, I'll hark back to those glory days of THE SAINTS and MY BONNIE with Tony Sheridan . John may have a point in so far as their live act was destroyed once they made it big. We all know that the Beatles had to play for 50,000 screaming girls who couldn't hear a thing, and the Beatles couldn't hear themselves. Yes I could see how this compromise would actually turn them into "bad musicians onstage". Here was John just being John, trying to de-myth the Beatles a bit. There are also other interviews where John praises Epstein for getting them into the suits and presenting them well. BATB just clings onto one quote that works for his agenda and then turns a deaf ear to dozens of others. I would be willing to bet you that NO Beatles fan really dislikes poor Stu. And they also have come to really like Pete Best, they feel sorry for him missing out, and they like to see him and his band live these years. It's just that you exaggerate and take the whole thing to another level.
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