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Post by joeyself on Nov 26, 2010 12:11:46 GMT -5
VENUS AND MARS, Side 2 vs. RINGO THE 4th, Side 2
VENUS AND MARS, Side 2
1."Venus and Mars (Reprise)" – 2:05
2."Spirits of Ancient Egypt" (Denny Laine) – 3:04
3."Medicine Jar" (Jimmy McCulloch/Colin Allen) – 3:37
4."Call Me Back Again" – 4:59
5."Listen to What the Man Said" – 4:01
6."Treat Her Gently/Lonely Old People" – 4:21
7."Crossroads Theme" (Tony Hatch) – 1:00
RINGO THE 4TH, Side 2
1."Can She Do It Like She Dances" (Steve Duboff/Gerry Robinson) – 3:12
2."Sneaking Sally Through The Alley" (Allen Toussaint) – 4:17
3."It's No Secret" (Richard Starkey/Vini Poncia) – 3:42
4."Gypsies In Flight" (Richard Starkey/Vini Poncia) – 3:02
5."Simple Love Song" (Richard Starkey/Vini Poncia) – 2:57
We come to the point in the first round where Paul McCartney will have an entry in each match. He has 20 sides in this tournament, and in Matches 24-32, the 9 sides he has left will face the remaining 9 of his ex-bandmates.
JcS
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 26, 2010 13:53:43 GMT -5
VENUS AND MARS, Side 2
Wow, if I was on a desert isle with just these album Sides, I'd throw myself in the shark infested waters.
Highlights to me from V&M-2 are "Medicine Jar"(not even Paul), "Listen To What The Man Says" and "V & M Reprise."
I actively dislike "Spirits of Ancient Egypt" and the overwrought, fakey "Call Me Back Again," a song rivaled in phoniness only by "Oh!Darling."
As for Ringo, I have trouble getting past "Can She Do It Like She Dances." "We make her paint her face and dance, we make her paint her face and dance!"
V&M-2 wins because there are a couple decent songs on it. By V & M, Paul had painted himself into the corner by becoming a slave to the old Beatles fans and critics(who Paul would never please for reasons beyond his music).
If only Paul had stayed true to himself as he did in his first four post-Beatles albums. Paul sold his soul for BOTR.
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Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Nov 26, 2010 14:41:21 GMT -5
I do not know how to vote in such a match-up.
Both sides are jaw-dislocatingly boring.
In fact, I'd rather listen to the whole of Extra Texture in one sitting than either of these sides. At least parts of Extra Texture have something to say ...
McCabe
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Post by stavros on Nov 26, 2010 15:10:40 GMT -5
I have a problem with the tracks on Venus & Mars as they sound lifeless and flat to me. I didn't get this album until about 1995/6. Whereas I have owned a cassette copy of "Wings Over America" at least a decade before. The versions on this are so much better and I don't think it's even been re-mastered?  ? As for Ringo IV this album side passes you by like a double maths lesson at the end of a school day . It's excruciatingly dull feels like it will never end and is difficult to concentrate on. I am not wasting a Guinness or a bottle of the local brew on this. I will vote for Venus & Mars to get this over with. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2010 15:16:23 GMT -5
VENUS AND MARS, Side 2
I think Venus and Mars and BOTR are Paul's best albums from his solo career...
I like all the songs on VENUS AND MARS, Side 2 ,especially
Treat Her Gently/Lonely Old People.
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Post by coachbk on Nov 26, 2010 20:07:33 GMT -5
This is the weaker side of VENUS & MARS, but it still wins out easily over the awful RINGO THE 4TH.
I agree that the songs on V&M are better live, but they are still OK in the studio version. The bright spot of this side is "Venus & Mars" (reprise) where the "stars" change from rock stars on side 1 to stars in the sky and the music is appropriately "outer-space" sounding.
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Post by theman on Nov 26, 2010 21:23:22 GMT -5
While a cut down version of V&M-2 might make a nice EP (V&M reprise, LTWTMS, Treat Her Gently and Crossroads), the whole here is certainly NOT greater than the sum of its parts.
As for Ringo the 4th--2, I think this long lost, forgotten B-Side to the single from the album, "Wings", says all that needs to be said about this album (was it all "Just a Dream").
Actually, this song may be better than any of the ones on the LP.
I vote for V&M-2!!
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Post by mikev on Nov 26, 2010 21:31:31 GMT -5
While a cut down version of V&M-2 might make a nice EP (V&M reprise, LTWTMS, Treat Her Gently and Crossroads), the whole here is certainly NOT greater than the sum of its parts. As for Ringo the 4th--2, I think this long lost, forgotten B-Side to the single from the album, "Wings", says all that needs to be said about this album (was it all "Just a Dream"). Actually, this song may be better than any of the ones on the LP. I vote for V&M-2!! Wow Ringo "rarity" I never heard before. |
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Post by mikev on Nov 26, 2010 21:45:17 GMT -5
Not even going to "grade" these. Ringo the 4th was complete rubbish. Sentimental Journey had a charm-this was just "plastic disco".
I like Venus and Mars, even Jimmy's song which sort of sounds like Ringo singing. Not sure how it will hold out in the later rounds.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 27, 2010 5:38:14 GMT -5
I can enjoy some songs from RINGO THE 4th, but it just so happens that Paul's VENUS AND MARS is one of my favorites of all his albums. So VENUS AND MARS wins this easily.
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Post by joeyself on Nov 27, 2010 12:53:28 GMT -5
My recollection--and I'm not going to play it to confirm this point--was that Side 2 of RT4 started off OK with those two covers and then crashed when the Starr/Poncia songs started. It wouldn't matter if I don't have it quite right, because V&M 2 is blessed with one of McCartney's best singles in the 70's--"Listen To What The Man Said." It didn't hurt my opinion of it that I was falling in love for the first time during the summer it was out, but even now, I still adore it. The balance of the side is peaks (the reprise, "Spirits") and valleys ("Treat Her Gently" "Call Me Back Again"), but the pinnacle of "Listen" would make this side enough to beat many in this tournament, and RT4 is the rule, not the exception.
JcS
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Post by ursamajor on Nov 27, 2010 17:34:20 GMT -5
Venus and Mars S-2
Medicine Jar has to be one of the greatest rocks songs Wings ever did , thankyou Jimmy and Paul inexplicably left it off Wingspan for things like Man We Was Lonely and Call Me Back Again. Nice way to acknowledge that Wings was a great band at one stage.
Listen to What the Man Said is a brilliant pop song by Paul and the Venus and Mars reprise is great too.
Spirit is average but much better live, where it has life and energy and great jamming at the end.
Call Me Back Again I have never liked and can't believe he did this live at the expense of practically anything else he had in the can at that point. Treat Her Gently/Lonely Old People is a bit of a letdown to close the album but it's still ok. I think if this side has Juniors Farm on it at the expense of Call Me Back Again it could compete with Band on the Run as Paul's best.
Ringo theIVth I am probably in the minority but I love this album. I can't understand why it is treated with so much contempt by fans. In saying that, it doesn't beat Venus and Mars S-2.
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Post by joeyself on Nov 27, 2010 17:43:52 GMT -5
Venus and Mars S-2 I think if this side has Juniors Farm on it at the expense of Call Me Back Again it could compete with Band on the Run as Paul's best. Indeed, "Junior's Farm" would improve ANY line-up on ANY Paul album! On the other hand, "Sally G," which I adore, just wouldn't fit on any of the albums that followed it. JcS |
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Post by ursamajor on Nov 27, 2010 18:04:39 GMT -5
Venus and Mars S-2 I think if this side has Juniors Farm on it at the expense of Call Me Back Again it could compete with Band on the Run as Paul's best. Indeed, "Junior's Farm" would improve ANY line-up on ANY Paul album! On the other hand, "Sally G," which I adore, just wouldn't fit on any of the albums that followed it. JcS I always though Sally G might fit on At the Speed of Sound, close to songs like San Ferry Anne and Must Do Something About It but then it would be too soft a way to end an album. |
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Post by joeyself on Nov 27, 2010 19:00:15 GMT -5
Indeed, "Junior's Farm" would improve ANY line-up on ANY Paul album! On the other hand, "Sally G," which I adore, just wouldn't fit on any of the albums that followed it. JcS I always though Sally G might fit on At the Speed of Sound, close to songs like San Ferry Anne and Must Do Something About It but then it would be too soft a way to end an album. Softer than "Warm And Beautiful?" "Sally G" doesn't fit anywhere because of how different it was. Paul executed the SGT. PEPPER concept flawlessly. Instead of the funny jackets, he put on cowboy boots and acted the role of country crooner. I'll say more about "Sally G" when we get to LONDON TOWN, as there would have been a way to put it on there... JcS |
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Nov 28, 2010 1:31:52 GMT -5
Picking up on a cue from some other posts on this thread, Venus and Mars could have been transformed into an even better album with a few deletions and adds. I have tried to fit Sally G in. I think Listen To What the Man Said gives it a good transition.
Venus and Mars - Paul McCartney and Wings
1. Venus and Mars/Rock Show (long version-but single edit better)
2. Love In Song (great underrated song)
3. Junior's Farm (One Hand Clapping -sung more melodically)
4. Medicine Jar (great track should have been on Wingspan)
5. Letting Go (live) (played faster live and comes of better)
Side 2
1. Venus and Mars (Reprise) (the best version of this song -faster)
2. Listen To What the Man Said (No. 1 single--great memories too)
3. Sally G (fits well between these two songs)
4. Call Me Back Again (Live) (the live version is better)
5. Magneto and Titanium Man (better live)
6. Soily (makes great album closer either 1974 or live 1976 version)
Singles:
Dec. 1974 Junior's Farm (original single version)/ Sally G
April 1975 Listen To What the Man Said / Spirits of Ancient Egypt
July 1975 Venus & Mars/Rock Show (single version) / You Gave Me the Answer (Live)
Oct. 1975 Letting Go (Live) / Treat Her Gently-Lonely Old People
Junior's Farm live in studio
Letting Go live
Venus and Mars/Rock Show
Magneto live
Sally G
Call Me Back Again live
Soily live in studio
You Gave Me the Answer live
This may be better than Band on the Run. Consider this a remastered and reconfigured version.
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 28, 2010 12:09:07 GMT -5
Picking up on a cue from some other posts on this thread, Venus and Mars could have been transformed into an even better album with a few deletions and adds. I have tried to fit Sally G in. I think Listen To What the Man Said gives it a good transition. Venus and Mars - Paul McCartney and Wings 1. Venus and Mars/Rock Show (long version-but single edit better) 2. Love In Song (great underrated song) 3. Junior's Farm (One Hand Clapping -sung more melodically) 4. Medicine Jar (great track should have been on Wingspan) 5. Letting Go (live) (played faster live and comes of better) Side 2 1. Venus and Mars (Reprise) (the best version of this song -faster) 2. Listen To What the Man Said (No. 1 single--great memories too) 3. Sally G (fits well between these two songs) 4. Call Me Back Again (Live) (the live version is better) 5. Magneto and Titanium Man (better live) 6. Soily (makes great album closer either 1974 or live 1976 version) Singles: Dec. 1974 Junior's Farm (original single version)/ Sally G April 1975 Listen To What the Man Said / Spirits of Ancient Egypt July 1975 Venus & Mars/Rock Show (single version) / You Gave Me the Answer (Live) Oct. 1975 Letting Go (Live) / Treat Her Gently-Lonely Old People Junior's Farm live in studio Letting Go live Venus and Mars/Rock Show Magneto live Sally G Call Me Back Again live Soily live in studio You Gave Me the Answer live This may be better than Band on the Run. Consider this a remastered and reconfigured version. LOL! Joey, you set yourself up for this one. No version of V & M should have "Call Me Back Again" in my humble opinion. I would also punt "Magneto and Titanium Man" so hard that it couldn't sit down for a week, it's ass hurting from my kick. On one hand I applaud Paul for closing his 1976 concerts with something other than a oldie and moldy Beatles' song, but "Soily" is boring and doesn't go anywhere. "Junior's Farm" perhaps, keeping with the spirit of Wings. "Soily" however sounds half-baked to me. I will commend you, RTP, for ditching the awful, awful "Spirits Of Ancient Egypt," a song that must have inspired all punk rockers to go out a couple years later and try to destroy the old, rotted Pop Order filled with dinosaurs like Macca. Pretentious crap! I may switch my vote to Ringo The Fourth-2 as I think about the filler Paul used to make V & M a complete album. |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 28, 2010 12:12:51 GMT -5
No version of V & M should have "Call Me Back Again" in my humble opinion. I would also punt "Magneto and Titanium Man" so hard that it couldn't sit down for a week, it's ass hurting from my kick. And then I would pick it up off the floor, nurse MAGNETO back to health, and place it right back on the LP. I like it. And I especially like CALL ME BACK AGAIN, a great and strong vocal performance from Paul. Every bit as daring as a MUMBO or WILD LIFE, imho. (And while I'm at it, OH DARLING is also excellent  ). |
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 28, 2010 16:38:00 GMT -5
No version of V & M should have "Call Me Back Again" in my humble opinion. I would also punt "Magneto and Titanium Man" so hard that it couldn't sit down for a week, it's ass hurting from my kick. And then I would pick it up off the floor, nurse MAGNETO back to health, and place it right back on the LP. I like it. And I especially like CALL ME BACK AGAIN, a great and strong vocal performance from Paul. Every bit as daring as a MUMBO or WILD LIFE, imho. (And while I'm at it, OH DARLING is also excellent ). That's cool! I may love these songs tomorrow but not today(or yesterday). Again, it just my opinion that Paul was in some kind of spiritual place making music like "Mumbo" and "Wild Life" where he was making his voice sound unlike anything we had ever heard from Paul McCartney before! It is gritty, it is raw, and yes, at times it sounds ugly. But Paul was being "real" as they used to say! |
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Nov 28, 2010 17:46:04 GMT -5
And then I would pick it up off the floor, nurse MAGNETO back to health, and place it right back on the LP. I like it. And I especially like CALL ME BACK AGAIN, a great and strong vocal performance from Paul. Every bit as daring as a MUMBO or WILD LIFE, imho. (And while I'm at it, OH DARLING is also excellent ). That's cool! I may love these songs tomorrow but not today(or yesterday). Again, it just my opinion that Paul was in some kind of spiritual place making music like "Mumbo" and "Wild Life" where he was making his voice sound unlike anything we had ever heard from Paul McCartney before! It is gritty, it is raw, and yes, at times it sounds ugly. But Paul was being "real" as they used to say! Come on John, Jimmy plays his heart out especially on the live version of Call Me Back Again. The horn section sounds fantastic and Paul is in excellent voice. The tune and lyrics are really pretty good. The arrangement is fantastic including the background vocals (go Linda). I don't know why you don't like it but of course that is individual taste. Horses for courses as they say. I like Magneto especially live. It comes to life even more. As for Soily, the best version of that is the 1976 live version. You have to be made of stone if you don't react to that. |
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Post by ursamajor on Nov 29, 2010 6:06:44 GMT -5
Soily Soily
the cat in satin trousers says it's oily
I don't like that one but it has a nice groove at the start
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 29, 2010 9:45:44 GMT -5
That's cool! I may love these songs tomorrow but not today(or yesterday). Again, it just my opinion that Paul was in some kind of spiritual place making music like "Mumbo" and "Wild Life" where he was making his voice sound unlike anything we had ever heard from Paul McCartney before! It is gritty, it is raw, and yes, at times it sounds ugly. But Paul was being "real" as they used to say! Come on John, Jimmy plays his heart out especially on the live version of Call Me Back Again. The horn section sounds fantastic and Paul is in excellent voice. The tune and lyrics are really pretty good. The arrangement is fantastic including the background vocals (go Linda). I don't know why you don't like it but of course that is individual taste. Horses for courses as they say. I like Magneto especially live. It comes to life even more. As for Soily, the best version of that is the 1976 live version. You have to be made of stone if you don't react to that. I thought Jimmy's lead guitar playing and Paul's bass playing were outstanding on that live "Soily." The lyrics are throwaway and I can only surmise that this was one of those songs that was cooler if you were in the audience watching it done live. The laser lights were very cool for 1976. I wish the camera would have focused on Jimmy more when he was shredding those guitar leads. I watched your link for "Call Me Back Again" and yes, Paul's voice is awesome but the song itself leaves me cold. I once liked it I think but I just thought it too campy the more I heard it. |
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Post by joeyself on Nov 29, 2010 12:13:34 GMT -5
Picking up on a cue from some other posts on this thread, Venus and Mars could have been transformed into an even better album with a few deletions and adds. I have tried to fit Sally G in. I think Listen To What the Man Said gives it a good transition. Venus and Mars - Paul McCartney and Wings 1. Venus and Mars/Rock Show (long version-but single edit better) 2. Love In Song (great underrated song) 3. Junior's Farm (One Hand Clapping -sung more melodically) 4. Medicine Jar (great track should have been on Wingspan) 5. Letting Go (live) (played faster live and comes of better) Side 2 1. Venus and Mars (Reprise) (the best version of this song -faster) 2. Listen To What the Man Said (No. 1 single--great memories too) 3. Sally G (fits well between these two songs) 4. Call Me Back Again (Live) (the live version is better) 5. Magneto and Titanium Man (better live) 6. Soily (makes great album closer either 1974 or live 1976 version) Singles: Dec. 1974 Junior's Farm (original single version)/ Sally G April 1975 Listen To What the Man Said / Spirits of Ancient Egypt July 1975 Venus & Mars/Rock Show (single version) / You Gave Me the Answer (Live) Oct. 1975 Letting Go (Live) / Treat Her Gently-Lonely Old People Junior's Farm live in studio Letting Go live Venus and Mars/Rock Show Magneto live Sally G Call Me Back Again live Soily live in studio You Gave Me the Answer live This may be better than Band on the Run. Consider this a remastered and reconfigured version. LOL! Joey, you set yourself up for this one. Yeah, you'd think I'd know better by now. But in fairness, Ursa started it... JcS |
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JCV
Very Clean
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Post by JCV on Nov 29, 2010 16:13:54 GMT -5
VENUS AND MARS, Side 2JCV 
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