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Post by joeyself on Oct 31, 2010 16:32:38 GMT -5
IMAGINE, Side 2 vs. SENTIMENTAL JOURNEY, Side 1
IMAGINE, Side 2
1. "Gimme Some Truth" 3:16
2. "Oh My Love" 2:44
3. "How Do You Sleep?" 5:36
4. "How?" 3:43
5. "Oh Yoko!" 4:20
SENTIMENTAL JOURNEY, Side 1
1. "Sentimental Journey" (Bud Green, Les Brown, Bon Homer) – 3:26
2. "Night and Day" (Cole Porter) – 2:25
3. "Whispering Grass (Don't Tell the Trees)" (Fred Fisher, Doris Fisher) – 2:37
4. "Bye Bye Blackbird" (Mort Dixon, Ray Henderson) – 2:11
5. "I'm a Fool to Care" (Ted Daffan) – 2:39
6. "Stardust" (Hoagy Carmichael, Mitchell Parish) – 3:22
We've got Beatles all over these albums--Harrison plays on Lennon's album, and McCartney arranges a track on Starr's.
JcS
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Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Oct 31, 2010 16:46:44 GMT -5
I'm not a huge IMAGINE fan, but I do like How Do You Sleep a lot.
I like my John Lennon hard, abrasive, and simply really offensively rude. He sure is all of that here, and as a bonus made some very telling points about Paulie. Yes, yes, a few years later he said that the song was really about himself - but we all know that was ridiculous. I hate my John Lennon soft, yielding and simply really needlessly apologetic.
In contrast, Sentimental Journey drips with ... nothing at all.
Imagine Side 2 gets my vote.
McCabe
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Post by joeyself on Oct 31, 2010 17:20:18 GMT -5
OK, I admit it--I've voted this time without listening to SJ 1 as I did other entries that I couldn't quite remember. But I remember enough about it that I know it can't top IMA 2. I disagree with Joe Mc about the merits of "How Do You Sleep," as I think the whole thing was childish and extremely short-sighted (once released to the public, it's there even if he later changed his mind). "Oh Yoko" is just fun, and "Oh My Love" is nice. The others, I can take or leave, but it's more than enough to move on to the next round.
JcS
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Post by vectisfabber on Oct 31, 2010 18:48:27 GMT -5
I'm exactly opposite to McCabe in how I like me Lennon, so I voted Imagine 2 too.
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Post by anyoneanyhow on Oct 31, 2010 19:19:43 GMT -5
Yeah, okay. One of the greatest sides of recorded music ever, against a very pedestrian offering... Imagine side 2 gets my vote... but now I wonder if it will be unanimous or if someone will not be able to bring themselves to vote for a side with How Do You Sleep on it  |
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Post by mikev on Oct 31, 2010 20:41:01 GMT -5
1. Gimme Some Truth*****
2. Oh My Love****
3. How Do You Sleep? ****
4. How?*****
5. Oh Yoko! *** (in the middle of a s#@t I call your name...)
SENTIMENTAL JOURNEY, Side 1
1.Sentimental Journey****
2. Night and Day***
3. Whispering Grass (Don't Tell the Trees***
4. Bye Bye Blackbird****
5. I'm a Fool to Care
6. Stardust***
I can't total the points but I enjoy the SJ side.
Imagine still gets it.
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Post by coachbk on Oct 31, 2010 21:04:04 GMT -5
Yeah, okay. One of the greatest sides of recorded music ever, against a very pedestrian offering... Imagine side 2 gets my vote... but now I wonder if it will be unanimous or if someone will not be able to bring themselves to vote for a side with How Do You Sleep on it Well there is probably nobody on this board (except maybe RTP) who detests "How Do You Sleep" more than I do, but it is still an easy vote for IMAGINE. I'm surprised nobody has singled out "Give Me Some Truth". THIS is the Lennon I love. A great riff with passionate vocals. "Oh My Love" is simply a beautiful song. "How Do You Sleep" i've expounded on before and JoeySelf pretty much stated my feelings on this regretable song. I hate it! (and at some point this side will lose out because of HDYS) "How" is OK, better than just filler, but not a classic. "Oh Yoko" was called fun by JoeyS and I couldn't agree more. Love the harmonica too. I've heard most of the SJ stuff on Beatles-A-Rama radio and it isn't horrible, but it ain't great either. Ringo said he made it for his Mum. So if she liked it, then I guess that's good enough! |
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 31, 2010 21:42:33 GMT -5
Imagine-2
As I think about it, Imagine-2 may be the strongest album Side John ever did. No monster hit but almost every facet of John is portrayed here: political, passionate, angry John rocks on "Gimme Some Truth." Also angry, wicked wordsmith John on "How Do You Sleep." Yet we get tender, loving John on "Oh My Love" and not just loving but playful John on "Oh Yoko!" Finally, introverted, anguished John on "How?" Sure, no anthem, hit single on Side 2 but five very satisfying songs. In other words, a great album Side if perhaps a song short.
SJ-1 is actually pretty good for what it is: a sentimental journey by Ringo through music he heard as a kid. It was a great idea if 20 to 25 year too early as now everyone goes retro with big dollar results. 1970 with the Vietnam War raging and Youth busting out at the seams wasn't a good year to do an album of one's parents' music.
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Post by joeyself on Oct 31, 2010 21:45:13 GMT -5
1. Gimme Some Truth***** 2. Oh My Love**** 3. How Do You Sleep? **** 4. How?***** 5. Oh Yoko! *** (in the middle of a s#@t I call your name...) SENTIMENTAL JOURNEY, Side 1 1.Sentimental Journey**** 2. Night and Day*** 3. Whispering Grass (Don't Tell the Trees*** 4. Bye Bye Blackbird**** 5. I'm a Fool to Care 6. Stardust*** I can't total the points but I enjoy the SJ side. Imagine still gets it. I've seen others do the individual ratings, total the side/album and then average it to compare two with unequal numbers on the side. You didn't have a rating on one of the SJ tracks, but your average for IMAGINE 2 was 4.2, and for what you had on SJ 2 was 3.4. Even if "I'm A Fool To Care" got 5 stars, the average would still be only 3.67. JcS |
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Post by ursamajor on Oct 31, 2010 22:22:07 GMT -5
Imagine Side - 2
Lennon hits another peak or at the very least a high plateau after POB.
I really have come to love How! on this side, a great song but a little too string quarterly for me. I think Phil Spector went abit too hard with the strings on this album but not enough to blind the listener from their greatness ala the horns on most of Walls and Bridges.
As for Sentimental Journey it's not something I ever listen to, this is for hardcore Ringo fans.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Oct 31, 2010 22:28:26 GMT -5
I'm not a huge IMAGINE fan, but I do like How Do You Sleep a lot. I like my John Lennon hard, abrasive, and simply really offensively rude. He sure is all of that here, and as a bonus made some very telling points about Paulie. Yes, yes, a few years later he said that the song was really about himself - but we all know that was ridiculous. I hate my John Lennon soft, yielding and simply really needlessly apologetic. In contrast, Sentimental Journey drips with ... nothing at all. Imagine Side 2 gets my vote. McCabe That is a prime example of a songwriter being what you could call "misleading" about the meaning of a sensitive song. How is that different from Paul and his "misleading" stories about Dear Boy and Dragonfly? Does this make John a liar? I would say no. That is an awfully harsh judgement. I didn't call Paul a liar. Someone asked me if he was lying and I said yes or better yet fibbing. It doesn't make him or John "a liar". |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2010 3:09:14 GMT -5
IMAGINE, Side 2
nothing sentimental about Ringo's journey through this round...it'll darn near be a whitewash....
;D
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Post by vectisfabber on Nov 1, 2010 6:07:05 GMT -5
John wasn't a liar, he was simply.. er.. inconsistent!  |
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Post by mikev on Nov 1, 2010 7:53:30 GMT -5
1. Gimme Some Truth***** 2. Oh My Love**** 3. How Do You Sleep? **** 4. How?***** 5. Oh Yoko! *** (in the middle of a s#@t I call your name...) SENTIMENTAL JOURNEY, Side 1 1.Sentimental Journey**** 2. Night and Day*** 3. Whispering Grass (Don't Tell the Trees*** 4. Bye Bye Blackbird**** 5. I'm a Fool to Care 6. Stardust*** I can't total the points but I enjoy the SJ side. Imagine still gets it. I've seen others do the individual ratings, total the side/album and then average it to compare two with unequal numbers on the side. You didn't have a rating on one of the SJ tracks, but your average for IMAGINE 2 was 4.2, and for what you had on SJ 2 was 3.4. Even if "I'm A Fool To Care" got 5 stars, the average would still be only 3.67. JcS I thought of averaging- probably will for later rounds. Maybe I'll go to "11". I had to get off yesterday before finishing, but didn't want to retype everything. "I'm a Fool to Care' actually sounds like something that could have been on the White album. I meant to give it 4 stars. I think even in a tie- John gets the nod for all original material. Generally- I assess on my personal like, commercial viability, songwriting and musicianship. |
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JCV
Very Clean
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Post by JCV on Nov 1, 2010 12:27:18 GMT -5
IMAGINE, Side 2No contest, really. JCV
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Post by acebackwords on Nov 1, 2010 12:39:09 GMT -5
Oh boy, I feel a little sorry for Ringo with this match-up. Kind of like watching a .500 team get stomped by the L.A. Lakers in the first round of the playoffs.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 1, 2010 16:39:22 GMT -5
There doesn't even seem like any point, as IMAGINE is a great album and SJ is pretty blah. So I voted for IMAGINE.
I like every song on John's album, including HOW DO YOU SLEEP! However, I often think it's more fun listening to all the venomous outtakes instead of the actual album track.
The only two songs I like off Ringo's album are the song SJ and BYE BYE BLACKBIRD.
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Post by joeyself on Nov 1, 2010 21:32:02 GMT -5
There doesn't even seem like any point, as IMAGINE is a great album and SJ is pretty blah. So I voted for IMAGINE. In the context of the contest of winners/losers, you're right. I could have culled out 32 of these sides, confident that I didn't discard a Final Four contender. But that's not what it's all about. How often is SJ discussed, even briefly? JcS |
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Post by John S. Damm on Nov 1, 2010 23:35:50 GMT -5
There doesn't even seem like any point, as IMAGINE is a great album and SJ is pretty blah. So I voted for IMAGINE. In the context of the contest of winners/losers, you're right. I could have culled out 32 of these sides, confident that I didn't discard a Final Four contender. But that's not what it's all about. How often is SJ discussed, even briefly? JcS Timing is everything. If Ringo released SJ in 2000, it would have been a huge hit. It would have gotten votes here. Instead, Ringo released it right when no one wanted to know about the music of the WWII generation. It was a time when such music was deemed "square." SJ-1 may never have beaten Imagine-2 but in a different context it would have been closer. I just hope all Beatles fans spend some time with SJ because in 2010 it is much more relevant and poignant than in 1970. |
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Post by ursamajor on Nov 2, 2010 0:29:44 GMT -5
In the context of the contest of winners/losers, you're right. I could have culled out 32 of these sides, confident that I didn't discard a Final Four contender. But that's not what it's all about. How often is SJ discussed, even briefly? JcS Timing is everything. If Ringo released SJ in 2000, it would have been a huge hit. It would have gotten votes here. Instead, Ringo released it right when no one wanted to know about the music of the WWII generation. It was a time when such music was deemed "square." SJ-1 may never have beaten Imagine-2 but in a different context it would have been closer. I just hope all Beatles fans spend some time with SJ because in 2010 it is much more relevant and poignant than in 1970. That brought a tear to my eye *sniff*sniff* |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 2, 2010 6:27:25 GMT -5
Timing is everything. If Ringo released SJ in 2000, it would have been a huge hit. It would have gotten votes here. It wouldn't have made any difference to me, John. I still would only enjoy the two songs. |
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 2, 2010 6:30:59 GMT -5
I could have culled out 32 of these sides, confident that I didn't discard a Final Four contender. But that's not what it's all about. How often is SJ discussed, even briefly? JcS And it's a lot of fun. However, I have started specific album threads on individual solo albums to discuss, too. I think I even began one on SJ (though it may have been on the old board). |
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Post by stavros on Nov 2, 2010 17:20:17 GMT -5
Well I gave Sentimental Journey a listen even though in my mind this would never beat Imagine. It's from an age when popular music was totally different and sounds very dated to my ears. But the production on this album is absolutely superb. And who am I to criticise an era which has developed a niche in recent years? As John S. Damn says this "could" have been a massive hit had Ringo done this 10 years ago. But it just isn't a type of music I can take to.
Imagine has to win. This is Mr. Lennon's best album side. Including the rebellious, sneering, political pre-punk "Gimme Some Truth " and the downright nasty personal attack on Paul of "How Do You Sleep?" intertwined with the more melodic "Oh My Love" and self questioning but wonderful "How".
Even "Dear Yoko" which I consider a song written totally for fun has an uplifting melody and harmonic structure beyond it's simplistic lyrics.
John's first two albums were recorded in complete contrasts. Basic and primitive and then full of lush production and strings . Both worked and were the peak of his solo career in the 1970s.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2010 4:22:47 GMT -5
Well I gave Sentimental Journey a listen even though in my mind this would never beat Imagine. It's from an age when popular music was totally different and sounds very dated to my ears. But the production on this album is absolutely superb. And who am I to criticise an era which has developed a niche in recent years? As John S. Damn says this "could" have been a massive hit had Ringo done this 10 years ago. But it just isn't a type of music I can take to. Imagine has to win. This is Mr. Lennon's best album side. Including the rebellious, sneering, political pre-punk "Gimme Some Truth " and the downright nasty personal attack on Paul of "How Do You Sleep?" intertwined with the more melodic "Oh My Love" and self questioning but wonderful "How". Even "Dear Yoko" which I consider a song written totally for fun has an uplifting melody and harmonic structure beyond it's simplistic lyrics. John's first two albums were recorded in complete contrasts. Basic and primitive and then full of lush production and strings . Both worked and were the peak of his solo career in the 1970s. Quite a good review stavros ...made for a great read.... |
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