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Post by joeyself on Oct 24, 2010 8:08:12 GMT -5
VENUS AND MARS, Side 1 vs. RINGO'S ROTOGRAVURE, Side 1
1. "Venus and Mars" – 1:20
2. "Rock Show" – 5:31
3. "Love in Song" – 3:04
4. "You Gave Me the Answer" – 2:15
5. "Magneto and Titanium Man" – 3:16
6. "Letting Go" – 4:33
RINGO'S ROTOGRAVURE
1. "A Dose of Rock 'n' Roll" (Carl Groszmann) – 3:24
2. "Hey! Baby" (Margaret Cobb/Bruce Channel) – 3:11
3. "Pure Gold" (Paul McCartney) – 3:14
4. "Cryin'" (Vini Poncia/Richard Starkey) – 3:18
5. "You Don't Know Me At All" (Dave Jordan) – 3:16
JcS
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Post by coachbk on Oct 24, 2010 10:27:19 GMT -5
I went with Venus & Mars. The opening "Venus And Mars/Rock Show" is fun and takes some nice musical twists. "Love In Song" is pure filler. "You Gave Me The Answer" is a delight. "Magnetto And Titanium Man" is great on WINGS OVER AMERICA, but is just OK here. "Letting Go" is a nice rocker.
ROTOGRAVURE starts off OK with the single "A Dose Of Rock n Roll" and "Hey Baby". Paul gives Ringo a throwaway, "Pure Gold" (unlike on RINGO where he gives him "Six O'Clock", which is better than 3/4 of his RED ROSE SPEEDWAY songs). And the last two are only average as well.
Not a bad Ringo effort, but Paul has more to offer here.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 24, 2010 11:02:25 GMT -5
Yet another match that's not even close. I think VENUS AND MARS is one of Paul's best-ever albums. Ringo's ROTOGRAVURE is not too bad for a Ringo LP of this period, but it doesn't stand a chance against VAM.
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Post by vectisfabber on Oct 24, 2010 12:17:19 GMT -5
V&M
I played the heck out of it, and I loved seeing most of it played live at Wembley.
Sorry, Ritchie.
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Post by mikev on Oct 24, 2010 14:47:56 GMT -5
I remember finding the 8 track cut-out of Rotogravure in the summer of 79 and enjoying it for a Ringo LP. This side is probably the weaker of the 2 and is no match for V &M.
Pure Gold is a nice McCartney tune but not his best. The two rock and roll oldies almost sound the same.
For me Rotogravure could knock some JPG lps, but not in this case.
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Joseph McCabe
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A rebel to his last breath ...
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Oct 24, 2010 15:16:37 GMT -5
Venus and Mars seems to me an attempt to paint Paul's talents on a large, sweeping canvas. And to be so very very hip.
I find McCartney's lyrics to be excruciatingly bad on this album. Let's see, for example: starship 21zna9, you score an ounce ole! [it's the ole I object to, not scoring the ounce], all of Magneto and Ti Man. Shudder. I like Letting Go, though. And Rock Show, forgetting some of its lyrics, is OK.
Ringo's Rotogravure is a rather sad attempt to repeat the formula of RINGO successfully. Vienna lacked Paul and George. Now here we are again, all three brothers helping ol' Ring out. Result: largely awful, though I kind-of like Dose (track 1).
So it's Guinness time again, to help the cogitations. Side 1 of V&M? Or, Side 1 of Rotogravure? Or, the third alternative: neither - after all, I don't have to vote!
McCabe
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 24, 2010 21:33:54 GMT -5
VENUS AND MARS, Side 1
I voted for Paul's album here. While I remember well the #1 single, LTWTMS, the album came out just months before I was a Beatles fan so I didn't buy this until late 1976. On the other hand, RINGO'S ROTOGRAVURE came out exactly a year after I'd become a Beatles' fan. My younger brother bought it so I had it available to me 24-7.
1. "Venus and Mars:" I like this opener a lot. Good start, very melodic. Too bad this wasn't a solid complete song instead of broken in two. It still needed work on the lyrics though.
2. "Rock Show:" I loved this song in 1976, even Paul's funny voices in it. It is okay to me today, although a tad fruity, and I truly believe Paul drops Jimmy Page's name to score points with the legions of Led Zep fans whose band was the most popular rock band in 1975 bar none. I sure as hell pointed out this name check to Page to my buddies who were all Zep fans and thought Paul twee.
3. "Love in Song:" I think this is the best song on the album and among the top 20 of Paul's solo career. It is moody and haunting.
4. "You Gave Me the Answer:" Kind of a guilty pleasure but just barely. Why Paul, why? Do we really need a son of a son of a son of a son of "When I'm 64?" Paul must think so because we later get "Baby's Request" and even later "English Tea."
5. "Magneto and Titanium Man:" Wasn't it the syndicated columnist Bob Greene who famously wrote that this song proved that Paul's brain was burned out from too much dope? For Revolver, Paul was inspired by classical music and literature: for Magneto Paul was inspired by comic books.
6. "Letting Go:" A good song. Maybe the second best on the album for me. The live version on WOA is pretty hot although Paul kinds of waters it down with horns. It could have rocked harder than it did.
RINGO'S ROTOGRAVURE
1. "A Dose of Rock 'n' Roll:" Yeah, pleasant ear candy but also freaking Tin Pan Alley. I thought they had freed us(oh yeah, that was mostly John and Paul and some George).
2. "Hey! Baby:" Nowhere near the original. More covers Ringo?
3. "Pure Gold:" Pure boredom. A snoozer.
4. "Cryin:'" Utterly forgetable, maybe I should quit lamenting about Ringo relying on Tin Pan Alley when giving us co-written songs like this.
5. "You Don't Know Me At All:" Really, as a 13 year old budding fan was this supposed to speak to me? In fact, this whole album quickly taught me that all Beatles were not created equal. This Side of music by Ringo makes V & M-1 look like SPLHCB in comparison.
At least you older fans remembered the glory days of RINGO and the lesser, but still rather popular, Goodnight Vienna which showed to all but Ringo that he was already running on fumes one album out from RINGO.
Nicholas Schaffner said it best: If the four Beatles sounded so weak in their contributions on RINGO'S ROTOGRAVURE in 1976, thank God they did not reunite!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2010 4:30:28 GMT -5
VENUS AND MARS, Side 1
This is one of my favourite Paul albums...
easy to make a choice this time around.....
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Post by ursamajor on Oct 25, 2010 7:36:36 GMT -5
I don't mind Rotogravure for a Ringo album, I like it although I know it's no Ringo.
But once again poor little Ringo the clown is playing above his weight. Venus and Mars is like a solar eclipse of Rotogravure while Ringo's cookin' in the kitchen of love.
I agree with JSD about Love in Song, a sensational ballad by Paul which should have been on Wings Over America. I don't mind You Gave Me the Answer but I wish it wasn't on this album and it was on Wild Life or Red Rose Speedway instead. It's like when your favourite player isn't trying or is just being a pretty boy, I feel like saying to Paul, stop being a show pony and get serious.
But Venus and Mars by a landslide.
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Post by vectisfabber on Oct 25, 2010 9:02:51 GMT -5
You Gave Me The Answer really worked well live, and I'm not sure Love In Song would have done.
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Post by coachbk on Oct 25, 2010 9:37:17 GMT -5
Two people praising "Love In Song". To me that has always been the very definition of "filler" on this album. I'll have to give it another listen.
I agree with vectis that "You Gave Me The Answer" worked well live (I also like the studio version, but the live is a little peppier).
WINGS OVER AMERICA is one of my favorite live LP's. The songs really rock!
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 25, 2010 18:09:00 GMT -5
Two people praising "Love In Song". I'll make it Three! |
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Post by anyoneanyhow on Oct 25, 2010 18:31:48 GMT -5
I went with V&M but truth be told I don't listen to it much anymore, the first two songs are great but afterwards its just meh. Used to like this album A LOT better. I assume I just wore it out at first, and then again with the songs appearing on WOA. And Magneto is just an unforgiving piece of embarrassment. But 5 out of 6 ok or better songs ranks better than Rotogravure. I like the first two songs but Pure Gold is the point at which the charm of Ringo's albums took a dramatic drop. I had stopped buying Ringo's albums for a while after this snoozefest.
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Post by acebackwords on Oct 25, 2010 18:45:07 GMT -5
V& M by a landslide. Rock bands will be opening their shows with the "Venus & Mars" medley as long as there's live concerts. Just a beautiful way to start a show. Captures the whole experience of getting ready for a show. Now put your wig on straight, now don't be late, wearing them high-heeled sneakers. Honey, we're goin' to a rock show.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Oct 25, 2010 18:50:50 GMT -5
This is directed at John S. Damm. I though I read a post of you disparaging one of my favorites of Paul's: Call Me Back Again. I know Venus and Mars goes beyond your postulate. However, this is a great song and even better live. Check out these connections:
Jimmy plays his ass off and Paul sings his ass off. And the horn section is awesome. There is a remastered version of this on Wingspan on which the horns just jump out of the speakers. Even with that I think the version on WOA is better than the version on Venus and Mars. Any thoughts about this?
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 25, 2010 22:07:08 GMT -5
Two people praising "Love In Song". To me that has always been the very definition of "filler" on this album. I'll have to give it another listen. I agree with vectis that "You Gave Me The Answer" worked well live (I also like the studio version, but the live is a little peppier). WINGS OVER AMERICA is one of my favorite live LP's. The songs really rock! I'm sure that with all the dope you 1976 Wings fans were either smoking or catching as second-hand smoke at the 1976 shows, "You Gave Me The Answer" probably sounded great. Sorry, fellows, that would be my low point at a Rock concert. I mean Paul uses his funny voices and is pretending that he is talking and then dancing with someone, "Shall we dance?"  I am anal retentive and never skip songs on albums until I saw that "You Gave Me The Answer" was on WOA. ;D |
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Oct 25, 2010 23:49:27 GMT -5
Two people praising "Love In Song". To me that has always been the very definition of "filler" on this album. I'll have to give it another listen. I agree with vectis that "You Gave Me The Answer" worked well live (I also like the studio version, but the live is a little peppier). WINGS OVER AMERICA is one of my favorite live LP's. The songs really rock! I'm sure that with all the dope you 1976 Wings fans were either smoking or catching as second-hand smoke at the 1976 shows, "You Gave Me The Answer" probably sounded great. Sorry, fellows, that would be my low point at a Rock concert. I mean Paul uses his funny voices and is pretending that he is talking and then dancing with someone, "Shall we dance?" I am anal retentive and never skip songs on albums until I saw that "You Gave Me The Answer" was on WOA. ;D Sorry John but he didn't use all that talking over the music and pretending he was dancing when he did it live. All you hear during that middle is the piano and that great horn section playing like a swing band. I'm not sure what you mean by funny voices. Here is a clip. He is just singing in the style of the 30s. They put an effect on his voice at least on the studio recording. |
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nine
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Post by nine on Oct 26, 2010 1:26:51 GMT -5
I've gone Venus. Rotogravure is too dull. I reckon it is in his bottom 3 or 4 albums. There is a great song on side 2. I'll Still Love You by George is great. I've always been mystified why George sued Ringo over this... Or is suing something rich folk do for laughs?
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Post by stavros on Oct 26, 2010 5:52:53 GMT -5
Sorry Ringo but this was just a filler of an album and the slide into obscurity before Thomas the Tank Engine came to your rescue had began. The first two tracks are a nice but of fun but there is nothing on this album side that really grabs attention.
Venus & Mars does not have single clunker of a song on it. It's not an album I listen to very much. Perhaps the lyrics are a bit on the weak side occasionally but after the "V& M/Rock Show" opening "Love in Song" is actually a much better song than I'd remembered (or actually forgot) and "You Gave me the Answer" is a nice period piece. The final two tracks are good rockers. Although every single track sounds better "live" on Wings Over America. - Paul wins.
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Post by vectisfabber on Oct 26, 2010 6:13:44 GMT -5
I'm sure that with all the dope you 1976 Wings fans were either smoking or catching as second-hand smoke at the 1976 shows, "You Gave Me The Answer" probably sounded great. Sorry, fellows, that would be my low point at a Rock concert. Er, it wasn't a rock concert, it was a Paul McCartney/Wings concert. And it sounded great. And I wasn't smoking anything.  |
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Post by ursamajor on Oct 26, 2010 6:21:28 GMT -5
Two people praising "Love In Song". To me that has always been the very definition of "filler" on this album. I'll have to give it another listen. I agree with vectis that "You Gave Me The Answer" worked well live (I also like the studio version, but the live is a little peppier). WINGS OVER AMERICA is one of my favorite live LP's. The songs really rock! I'm sure that with all the dope you 1976 Wings fans were either smoking or catching as second-hand smoke at the 1976 shows, "You Gave Me The Answer" probably sounded great. Sorry, fellows, that would be my low point at a Rock concert. I mean Paul uses his funny voices and is pretending that he is talking and then dancing with someone, "Shall we dance?" I am anal retentive and never skip songs on albums until I saw that "You Gave Me The Answer" was on WOA. ;D Really good to see you down New Orleans man, hairy, yeah hairy !! \ m / |
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Post by coachbk on Oct 26, 2010 11:10:40 GMT -5
[quote I'm sure that with all the dope you 1976 Wings fans were either smoking or catching as second-hand smoke at the 1976 shows, "You Gave Me The Answer" probably sounded great. Sorry, fellows, that would be my low point at a Rock concert. I mean Paul uses his funny voices and is pretending that he is talking and then dancing with someone, "Shall we dance?" I am anal retentive and never skip songs on albums until I saw that "You Gave Me The Answer" was on WOA. ;D [/quote] Never smoked dope in my life. "You Gave Me The Answer" is great live. You are really missing something good by skipping this track. |
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JCV
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Post by JCV on Oct 26, 2010 12:31:29 GMT -5
VENUS AND MARS, Side 1 Rock on, Paulie!  JCV 
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Post by John S. Damm on Oct 26, 2010 13:01:21 GMT -5
LOL! I left open the secondhand smoke option knowing our friends here would not partake in activity clearly illegal in 1976!
I don't hate "You Gave Me The Answer" but it is one of the reasons a Junior High guy in 1975/6 couldn't admit to liking McCartney at school without being mocked, ostracized or getting the crap beat out of him! Maybe the college puddings and young office workers could admit to it but not us kids in the trenches in the 1970's cultural wars.
Sorry, Paulmania in 75/76 didn't extend to "You Gave Me The Answer."
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