|
Post by joeyself on Sept 30, 2010 22:59:58 GMT -5
SOME TIME IN NEW YORK CITY, Side 2
1."Sunday Bloody Sunday" (John Lennon/Yoko Ono) – 5:03 2."The Luck Of The Irish" (John Lennon/Yoko Ono) – 2:59 3."John Sinclair" (John Lennon) – 3:30 4."Angela" (John Lennon/Yoko Ono) – 4:08 5."We're All Water" (Yoko Ono) – 5:19
BAD BOY, Side 2
1."Hard Times" (Peter Skellern) – 3:31 2."Tonight" (Ian McLagan/John Pidgeon) – 2:56 3."Monkey See - Monkey Do" (Michael Franks) – 3:36 4."Old Time Relovin'" (Vini Poncia/Richard Starkey) – 4:16 5."A Man Like Me" (Ruan O'Lochlainn) – 3:08
Ahhh, the luck of the draw gives us two lesser lights in the catalogs of John and Ringo. Such is life...
JcS
|
|
Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
|
Post by Joseph McCabe on Oct 1, 2010 1:08:24 GMT -5
I like Sometime In New York City; as I've said before I like its passion and commitment and energy. I'll rave a bit more about STINYC (both main LP sides) at a more appropriate time - that is, when it's got real competition. But I will say here that I consider Sunday Bloody Sunday an important song. What those soldier bastards did on that day beggars belief as much as many actions of the IRA. You would have thought, however, that professional soldiers would have had more control.
Poor Ringo. One really good LP, then it all falls apart. But I'm such a Beatle Fan, you know, that even Bad Boy is not so bad - well, not as bad as it could have been. In any case, it BB2 loses easily to its rival here.
McCabe
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Oct 1, 2010 5:06:58 GMT -5
I voted against SINYC2, the vilest album side ever produced by a Beatle.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 1, 2010 5:19:57 GMT -5
A few thoughts:
I voted for SINYC2, but just barely! Only because it's got 4 songs I like on it (I despise SUNDAY BLOODY SUNDAY - I consider it possibly John's worst solo song), whereas Ringo's BAD BOY album ony has 3 songs I enjoy on Side 2.
I actually enjoy most of the BAD BOY album from Ringo. In fact, if Side 1 had been in this match instead of Side 2, I would have voted for BB ahead of SINYC. I think Side 1 is a bit better.
Now - at the risk of offending some fans here (and I don't really mean to do that, so sorry if I do) -- how many of you are even familiar with Ringo's BAD BOY album? I know that not many of you collect "all" the solo albums, and certainly not all of Ringo's! Besides, the BAD BOY album is one of the more obscure offerings from his catalog these days. Is it possible that some people might vote against an album they haven't heard? I'm just wondering. I suppose that's kosher too, so long as it's stated in the comments.
|
|
|
Post by mikev on Oct 1, 2010 8:09:44 GMT -5
A few thoughts: I voted for SINYC2, but just barely! Only because it's got 4 songs I like on it (I despise SUNDAY BLOODY SUNDAY - I consider it possibly John's worst solo song), whereas Ringo's BAD BOY album ony has 3 songs I enjoy on Side 2. I actually enjoy most of the BAD BOY album from Ringo. In fact, if Side 1 had been in this match instead of Side 2, I would have voted for BB ahead of SINYC. I think Side 1 is a bit better. Now - at the risk of offending some fans here (and I don't really mean to do that, so sorry if I do) -- how many of you are even familiar with Ringo's BAD BOY album? I know that not many of you collect "all" the solo albums, and certainly not all of Ringo's! Besides, the BAD BOY album is one of the more obscure offerings from his catalog these days. Is it possible that some people might vote against an album they haven't heard? I'm just wondering. I suppose that's kosher too, so long as it's stated in the comments. Bad Boy did get some publicity being out there the same time as Ringo's TV special, and it was better that Ringo the 4th (Don't Worry Kyoko live is better than Ringo the 4th). It is one I never had- but I bought a few i-tunes from it just to complete my Slider Solo Beatles CD collection. I had to vote for STINYC. The music is very good- just the topics are dated and in some cases trite.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Oct 1, 2010 8:44:51 GMT -5
I was once watching old interviews with Ringo from 1978 when he was promoting his album and his TV special. He always repeatedly referred to the album title as: "RINGO (BAD BOY) STARR". I think he felt that was the name of the LP. The way the lettering is on the album cover, he may have intended that. Not that it's that important.
|
|
|
Post by coachbk on Oct 1, 2010 11:20:51 GMT -5
This is sort of the opposite of the first matchup of round 1. In this case we have two sides that deserve an early exit, but one gets to move on. I do not own BAD BOY, but have heard a few of the songs on Beatles-O-Rama internet radio. None impressed me. Therefore I voted for SINYC for 3 reasons: 1. All songs penned by Lennon and or Ono whereas Ringo only shares one writing credit with Vinny Ponica. 2. The music to "Luck Of The Irish" is quite nice. Very melodic and that is in short supply on this LP. 3. "There may not be much difference between Richard Nixon and Chariman Mao/if they both are naked" is Yoko's best lyric.
|
|
|
Post by acebackwords on Oct 1, 2010 12:03:01 GMT -5
Gotta go with STINYC. Mediocre music but fascinating concept. The perfect time-capsule of the post-60s political counterculture. In all its folly, madness and idealism. Remember when they used to call it "the underground"?
|
|
JCV
Very Clean
Posts: 545
|
Post by JCV on Oct 1, 2010 12:28:52 GMT -5
SOMETIME IN NEW YORK CITY, Side 2I thought the album cover was cool. I do have Ringo's "Bad Boy" album and it's not all that bad, but I just prefer John's songs in this matchup. JCV
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Oct 1, 2010 14:39:55 GMT -5
SOME TIME IN NEW YORK CITY, Side 2
STINYC-2 doesn't have my favorite song from this album(that's NYC) but it also doesn't have the songs I hate most, the two prison songs.
I bought Bad Boy when I was still in my relative infancy as a fan although by now I had built my collection. I wasn't crazy about it even then and I was just a Freshman in high school. Another ex-Beatle album no one at my school owned or even heard of. It made no dent in the Chicago market.
I really like "Heart On My Sleeve" but that is Side 1. Look how the songs were almost all written by others on Side 2. These were the days Ringo would be swept into the studio, do very little drumming, just lay down the lead vocals without much thought and be whisked out again. Ringo didn't get his hands dirty on these mid to late 1970's albums and they greatly suffer for it.
I do wish Ringo would close all All-Starr concerts with a rousing, moving rendition of "A Man Like Me" where the audience joins in and we all lock arms and heartily sing as if in an English Pub. That's what I wish.
|
|
|
Post by joeyself on Oct 1, 2010 16:12:20 GMT -5
I actually enjoy most of the BAD BOY album from Ringo. In fact, if Side 1 had been in this match instead of Side 2, I would have voted for BB ahead of SINYC. I think Side 1 is a bit better. I agree with most of this. I can't say I ENJOY the Starr record, but I don't detest it; it's inoffensive but I look for more in an album that that. Had it been Side 1 of BB, I would have also voted against STINYC 2. As it is, I voted for the Lennon/Ono release. I like "Sunday" pretty well, and think "We're All Water" is Yoko's crowning moment. "Angela" leaves me cold, though, and "John Sinclair" and "Luck Of The Irish" aren't Lennon's best. Still, it's enough to get by Starr. JcS
|
|
|
Post by joeyself on Oct 1, 2010 16:13:59 GMT -5
This is sort of the opposite of the first matchup of round 1. In this case we have two sides that deserve an early exit, but one gets to move on. Yeah, I agree with that. But look at the bright side: One of these will probably get KILLED next round when it faces a winning side. Unless it's another match like this, of course... JcS
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2010 16:37:26 GMT -5
SOME TIME IN NEW YORK CITY, Side 2
This is the battle of the lesser lights.....
There is a very dim light hovering over STINYC...
There is no light at all on Bad Boy.....
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Oct 1, 2010 17:00:53 GMT -5
I would have voted for a dinner plate against SINYC 2.
|
|
Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
|
Post by Joseph McCabe on Oct 1, 2010 17:21:45 GMT -5
I voted against SINYC2, the vilest album side ever produced by a Beatle. I would have voted for a dinner plate against SINYC 2. Come on vectisfabber, let it all out. We know you want to tell us why - so go ahead. I'm betting you have these opinions on Some Time In New York City for political, not musical reasons. Am I right? For my part, I'll admit that Lennon (& Ono) agree with some of my political slants, though I shudder at the simplistic way that Lennon often expressed his point of view - he's a "slogan thinker". But it's always the music in the end.McCabe
|
|
|
Post by ursamajor on Oct 1, 2010 17:38:10 GMT -5
SINYC Side 2SINYC - Side 2 has some great music and I love We're All Water by Yoko screeching and all. I don't care for the political topics as that was way beyond my time and I don't get most of them except that people have always made fun of the Irish. Bad Boy is just another blow in album by Ringo, hoping that it sells on his name alone. It has a few songs I like but I don't go out of my way to dust it out of my collection.
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Oct 1, 2010 19:58:53 GMT -5
This side of SINYC has Luck Of The Irish on it - gorgeous melody, by the way.
It has a lyric which effectively accuses me of genocide. This comes from a bloke whose pockets are stuffed with fivers I have willingly steered his way, and he's using that money to offer moral, if not financial, support to a bunch of murderous thugs who were making my every day difficult as I worked in a London which was under siege from the IRA in the 70s.
I heard the Hyde Park bomb - that one killed 3 soldiers and 7 horses. Then, a few minutes later, I felt the office I was working in shake when the Regents Park bomb went off - I was much nearer to Regents Park than Hyde Park. That one blew 7 bandsmen to bits, and both of them caused a fair number of casualties among members of the public, including tourists.
So I wasn't over impressed at this naive pampered pop musician with a couple of cupsful of Paddy blood in his veins, and his completely non-Irish wife, lecturing me on what a piece of shit I was to commit genocide (a bit of an overstatement IMHO) on the valiant freedom fighters, when it was actually them who were trying to kill me, tourists, people going about their business, horses, musicians, and the odd soldier.
My viewpoint has not changed over the years.
And I don't regard this as political reasons, I regard it as my reaction to Lennon being naive and misled at best, and treasonous at worst.
I'd vote for a bucket of pus in preference to SINYC 2.
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Oct 1, 2010 20:05:08 GMT -5
Actually, my viewpoint has[/i] changed. When I was younger, I didn't take it quite so seriously. Over the years I have come to think that it's only the shallowness of my youth which allowed me to keep on loving Lennon after this album - had he lived, and had he done something like this now, I would have done my best never to encounter his work again.
I repeat - vile.
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Oct 1, 2010 20:07:19 GMT -5
And the music doesn't excuse it. A song is music and[/i] words.
Rant over. I'm off to bed. Nighty night.
|
|
Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
|
Post by Joseph McCabe on Oct 1, 2010 20:16:53 GMT -5
Rant over. I'm off to bed. Nighty night. And a quality rant, it was, to be sure. I don't want to argue politics, and I won't, but I would like to point out that the whole Irish thing has two sides (at least!). Being able to see, understand and appreciate different perspectives is everything. McCabe
|
|
|
Post by joeyself on Oct 1, 2010 23:40:59 GMT -5
I voted against SINYC2, the vilest album side ever produced by a Beatle. For my part, I'll admit that Lennon (& Ono) agree with some of my political slants, though I shudder at the simplistic way that Lennon often expressed his point of view - he's a "slogan thinker". But it's always the music in the end.McCabe I've observed on some boards--not sure about this one, but probably the first one--that Lennon strikes me as a guy that read the dust cover of a book and walked away thinking he understood the whole work. The phrase "Slogan thinker" is a good way of expressing that sentiment. JcS
|
|
|
Post by mikev on Oct 2, 2010 0:08:55 GMT -5
This side of SINYC has Luck Of The Irish on it - gorgeous melody, by the way. It has a lyric which effectively accuses me of genocide. This comes from a bloke whose pockets are stuffed with fivers I have willingly steered his way, and he's using that money to offer moral, if not financial, support to a bunch of murderous thugs who were making my every day difficult as I worked in a London which was under siege from the IRA in the 70s. I heard the Hyde Park bomb - that one killed 3 soldiers and 7 horses. Then, a few minutes later, I felt the office I was working in shake when the Regents Park bomb went off - I was much nearer to Regents Park than Hyde Park. That one blew 7 bandsmen to bits, and both of them caused a fair number of casualties among members of the public, including tourists. So I wasn't over impressed at this naive pampered pop musician with a couple of cupsful of Paddy blood in his veins, and his completely non-Irish wife, lecturing me on what a piece of shit I was to commit genocide (a bit of an overstatement IMHO) on the valiant freedom fighters, when it was actually them who were trying to kill me, tourists, people going about their business, horses, musicians, and the odd soldier. My viewpoint has not changed over the years. And I don't regard this as political reasons, I regard it as my reaction to Lennon being naive and misled at best, and treasonous at worst. I'd vote for a bucket of pus in preference to SINYC 2. I share a different but similar sentiment with Attica State where my father was sent in as a State Trooper. Since then I have come to understand that the atrocious conditions there were a recipe for disaster, but for Lennon and Ono to sing "free the prisoners"... sure Yoko let him out... I think we all have gotten a "little bit older and a little bit wiser".
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Oct 2, 2010 3:14:19 GMT -5
Rant over. I'm off to bed. Nighty night. And a quality rant, it was, to be sure. Thank you! Me neither, and you are absolutely right that there are two sides. But as someone whose everyday working life was profoundly affected by the IRA's activity in London in the 70s and 80s, I started to take something of an interest in The Troubles (probably for the first time in my life taking an interest in something which mattered which wasn't me!). And I came to several conclusions: 1. What had happened in the past faded into insignificance next to where things were now; 2. There was little to choose between the men of violence on both sides: a murderous thug is a murderous thug; 3. The Republicans were in the minority in Northern Ireland - the majority wanted to be part of the UK, but the IRA weren't interested in democratic process because that wouldn't bring what they wanted. 4. Glib soundbites from a fatcat dilettante leftie didn't help solve the problem.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Oct 2, 2010 9:00:24 GMT -5
Wow, great points as to the politics of STINYC by(in order of appearance) McCabe, vectis, joeyself and mikev.
Maybe John and Yoko's greatest contribution with STINYC was not the sentiments sung or the music played but getting people to discuss the issues raised by J & Y there and taking those discussions much higher than what the album does itself.
STINYC still invokes discussion and debate while Bad Boy has all the charm, intellectual stimulation, and artistry as the paper plates my wife just purchased from Megla-Mart!
|
|
|
Post by acebackwords on Oct 2, 2010 15:17:17 GMT -5
[I've observed on some boards--not sure about this one, but probably the first one--that Lennon strikes me as a guy that read the dust cover of a book and walked away thinking he understood the whole work. The phrase "Slogan thinker" is a good way of expressing that sentiment. JcS Great line. Lennon is the guy who wrote his grand acid hymn "Tomorrow Never Knows" after taking acid twice and lifting the lyrics practically word-for-word from a Timothy Leary pamphlet. And yet, prodigy that he is, he's already ready to articluate the highest spiritual truths. Or, is he just mouthing slogans that he himself barely comprehends?
|
|
|
Post by stavros on Oct 2, 2010 16:20:30 GMT -5
SINYC is the absolute pits of John's and perhaps any Beatles career. I really think he had lost the plot at this stage and his sentiment in half baked songs was entirely ill thought. Did he really believe in what he was preaching or was he simply agitating for the sake of it. "Luck of the Irish" without it's myopic lyric would have made a more than decent folk type song. But sympathising with the IRA was not the way to go. An organisation that killed many innocent Britons and eventually committed self destruction by bombing the Cheshire town of Warrington in the early 1990s. A town in North West England between Liverpool and Manchester where nearly everyone has family or friends of Irish descent and great affinity with the people of the Emerald Isle. Where did he get these ideas from? And Yoko just makes these songs even worse. She just has no real voice for the world of music.
As for Ringo and "Bad Boy". This is simply bland . I did listen to both of these album sides again. I really would have to say that I'd rather not bother to vote.
|
|
|
Post by joeyself on Oct 2, 2010 21:47:13 GMT -5
... I did listen to both of these album sides again. I really would have to say that I'd rather not bother to vote. But I'm glad you did bother to comment; that's the real purpose of these games--that, and maybe getting an excuse to pull out an album you've not listened to in years. JcS
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2010 1:00:08 GMT -5
I'm reading that John was a " Bad Boy " for writing the stuff he did for STINYC...
maybe that's who Ringo dedicated his album to.......
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Oct 3, 2010 4:42:22 GMT -5
How appropriate that pronouncing the acronym for Sometime In New York City gives you a homonym for "cynic."
|
|
|
Post by ursamajor on Oct 3, 2010 7:54:52 GMT -5
How appropriate that pronouncing the acronym for Sometime In New York City gives you a homonym for "cynic." Hey vectis, what is the difference between John's Irish songs on SINYC and Paul's Give Ireland Back to the Irish ? Are they trying to achieve the same thing ? Before I make anymore comments, I'll preface by saying that I am not fully aware of the conflict other than at some point Ireland moved away from the Roman Catholic church and became Protestants and the Pope at the time was not happy about this so the English army was engaged to change this. This did not work so the English used population movements to get Roman Catholics to settle in the northern counties of Ireland and this of course lead to many skirmishes and eventually with protection from the English army a small country, Northern Ireland was created. I may be totally wrong here but if this is the way it happened don't you think the Irish have a point to fight back ? Isn't this what Paul was singing about ? John was more specific about Sunday Bloody Sunday incident which is more the terrorist groups trying to make the English government weaken leave. Anyway, I really want to know what this is about and why it exists ? If i have made some sweeping generalisations and am completely wrong then all apologies to you and the rest of the English people on this board.
|
|