Joseph McCabe
Very Clean
A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
|
Post by Joseph McCabe on Oct 3, 2010 18:24:00 GMT -5
Hey vectis, what is the difference between John's Irish songs on SINYC and Paul's Give Ireland Back to the Irish ? Are they trying to achieve the same thing ? Before I make anymore comments, I'll preface by saying that I am not fully aware of the conflict other than at some point Ireland moved away from the Roman Catholic church and became Protestants and the Pope at the time was not happy about this so the English army was engaged to change this. This did not work so the English used population movements to get Roman Catholics to settle in the northern counties of Ireland and this of course lead to many skirmishes and eventually with protection from the English army a small country, Northern Ireland was created. I may be totally wrong here but if this is the way it happened don't you think the Irish have a point to fight back ? Isn't this what Paul was singing about ? John was more specific about Sunday Bloody Sunday incident which is more the terrorist groups trying to make the English government weaken leave. Anyway, I really want to know what this is about and why it exists ? If i have made some sweeping generalisations and am completely wrong then all apologies to you and the rest of the English people on this board. The history there is not quite right. The problem of Ireland (or, as some Irish might put it, the problem of "certain others") goes back centuries. As a result, some Irish resent part of their country ("Northern Ireand") being hived off, so to speak. They want the northern part of their country back, to put it bluntly. Now, I realize that is simplifying one aspect of a very complex history - and in any case is not the point I want to make. In any very long running dispute, it is futile to apportion blame, and to play the "he started it game". Both sides were entrenched in their positions. Both sides committed outrageous acts of violence on each other through many years, and innocent bystanders were often caught up in the horrific bloodshed. Sunday Bloody Sunday is about one English/British outrage. Yes, the song is unbalanced, biased, tells only one side of the story; if you want the full story about this act you need to do a lot of reading. The song is meant to present one view only - and I think it does it very well. There is one last thing I would like to say. Politicians fight these battles. I bet "ordinary" people, of whatever persuasion, simply want to bring up their families in peace and comfort. I bet very few of them approve of the IRA's actions, the British government's actions, when those actions kill and maim and hurt. No Irishman would hate every English person or Protestant person he sees. No Northern Irish Protestant would want to kill every Catholic Irishman he meets. But I wager most would loathe and despise the politicians of every hue that are prepared to spill others' blood, justifying it with silver tongues that speak only lies. McCabe
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Oct 3, 2010 18:24:32 GMT -5
The difference is that, while both songs support the notion of unifying Ireland - ostensibly not a bad idea, albeit rather ignoring some fairly fundamental aspects of the situation such as the fact that the majority of the Northern Irish population didn't actually want to be unified - McCartney's was expressed in his usual equivocatory "Why can't everybody be friends and nice?" way, while Lennon was his usual take-no-prisoners self as he expressed his thoughts in a way which were, quite frankly, damn offensive if you were English.
I'm the last person to make out that the English weren't at fault for causing the problem in the first place. But we're looking at something which is analagous to Israel's position in the middle East and, maybe closer to home for Americans, the current situation of Afro-Americans and Native Americans - the root cause of the injustices is so long ago that there is little virtue in attributing blame: what is important is the current position, and how to move positively forward from it. And just doing what the IRA wanted would have created a bigger problem than it solved (not to mention the issue of conceding to terrorism).
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Oct 3, 2010 18:34:00 GMT -5
As far as Sunday Bloody Sunday is concerned, there is no excuse - Bloody Sunday was an outrage perpetrated by the British army. Soldiers should be better disciplined than to massacre unarmed civilians, although mistakes do get made, and similar things have happened in many conflicts. Lennon was absolutely justified in expressing outrage.
Luck Of The Irish is an unjustified and blanket condemnation of the British people and I objected (and still object) to being included within it, especially when the buggers were trying to blow me up, not vice versa.
|
|
|
Post by theman on Oct 9, 2010 9:20:35 GMT -5
I hate STINYC Well, except for the song "New York City "
|
|
|
Post by theman on Oct 9, 2010 9:28:36 GMT -5
Ringo singing "A Man Like Me" in that white suit with a spotlight shining on him in a darkened room is an image that is hard to forget (from the TV special Ognir Rrats.) This was a precursor to playing casinos in the year 2010.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Oct 9, 2010 10:12:52 GMT -5
Ringo singing "A Man Like Me" in that white suit with a spotlight shining on him in a darkened room is an image that is hard to forget (from the TV special Ognir Rrats.) This was a precursor to playing casinos in the year 2010. Ah The Man, but we the audience could lock arms and sing along in pub style! I loved that part of the 1978 show!
|
|
|
Post by theman on Oct 9, 2010 10:18:20 GMT -5
Ringo singing "A Man Like Me" in that white suit with a spotlight shining on him in a darkened room is an image that is hard to forget (from the TV special Ognir Rrats.) This was a precursor to playing casinos in the year 2010. Ah The Man, but we the audience could lock arms and sing along in pub style! I loved that part of the 1978 show! Well, I must admit, AMLM it is a guilty pleasure . When is Ringo going to release the deluxe Bad Boy 3 CD set with the Ognir Rrats TV show included as a special DVR?
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Oct 9, 2010 11:26:55 GMT -5
Ah The Man, but we the audience could lock arms and sing along in pub style! I loved that part of the 1978 show! Well, I must admit, AMLM it is a guilty pleasure . When is Ringo going to release the deluxe Bad Boy 3 CD set with the Ognir Rrats TV show included as a special DVR? That is a great idea! I don't know if Ringo could pad BB out to 3 discs(and it dawns on me that you were joking about that part) but as bonus tracks he could include the live songs performed at the end of the show with Ringo and His Roadside Attractions! A bonus dvd of the gloriously restored show is a must. Great idea, The Man!
|
|
|
Post by anyoneanyhow on Oct 9, 2010 21:35:40 GMT -5
Bad Boy 2
Woof, what a matchup! Bad Boy 2 not one of Ringo's better moments, but not truly offensive. But outside of We're All Water, side 2 of STINYC is unlistnable to my ears, please turn it off.
|
|
|
Post by joeyself on Oct 9, 2010 23:12:52 GMT -5
Bad Boy 2 Woof, what a matchup! Bad Boy 2 not one of Ringo's better moments, but not truly offensive. But outside of We're All Water, side 2 of STINYC is unlistnable to my ears, please turn it off. Yoko had two moments on Side 2 that I find to be among her best--the background vocals on "Sunday Bloody Sunday" and of course, "We're All Water." JcS
|
|
|
Post by theman on Oct 10, 2010 6:27:20 GMT -5
Well, I must admit, AMLM it is a guilty pleasure . When is Ringo going to release the deluxe Bad Boy 3 CD set with the Ognir Rrats TV show included as a special DVR? That is a great idea! I don't know if Ringo could pad BB out to 3 discs(and it dawns on me that you were joking about that part) but as bonus tracks he could include the live songs performed at the end of the show with Ringo and His Roadside Attractions! A bonus dvd of the gloriously restored show is a must. Great idea, The Man! Well, I was joking about 3 CDs, but I like your idea, JD. Of course, this set would sell maybe 2 copies ;D, so it will never see the light of day.
|
|
|
Post by anyoneanyhow on Oct 10, 2010 15:56:33 GMT -5
That is a great idea! I don't know if Ringo could pad BB out to 3 discs(and it dawns on me that you were joking about that part) but as bonus tracks he could include the live songs performed at the end of the show with Ringo and His Roadside Attractions! A bonus dvd of the gloriously restored show is a must. Great idea, The Man! Well, I was joking about 3 CDs, but I like your idea, JD. Of course, this set would sell maybe 2 copies ;D, so it will never see the light of day. Make that 3!
|
|