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Post by joeyself on Jul 12, 2010 17:04:01 GMT -5
HELP!, Side 1
"Help!" 2:18 "The Night Before" 2:33 "You've Got to Hide Your Love Away" 2:08 "I Need You" 2:28 "Another Girl" 2:05 "You're Going to Lose That Girl" 2:17 "Ticket to Ride" 3:10
REVOLVER, Side 1
"Taxman" 2:39 "Eleanor Rigby" 2:08 "I'm Only Sleeping" 3:02 "Love You To" 3:01 "Here, There and Everywhere" 2:26 "Yellow Submarine" 2:40 "She Said She Said" 2:37
Released a year to the day apart--well, OK, one was August 6, 1965 and the other was August 5, 1966--we have our second of four soundtrack sides left remaining (the other two are MMT 1 and LIB 2) against another side that I let slide in the first round. I predict it will be closer than the previous match, but then again, it can't be any more lopsided!
JcS
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Post by vectisfabber on Jul 12, 2010 19:46:32 GMT -5
Help! 1
Not easy. Decided, in the end, on the basis of Love You To letting the side down a bit.
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Post by winstonoboogie on Jul 12, 2010 20:36:22 GMT -5
REVOLVER 1 Again, not easy! Only decided, in my case, as I like "You're Going to Lose That Girl" less than the other songs.
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Post by coachbk on Jul 12, 2010 21:18:42 GMT -5
REVOLVER SIDE 1
Fairly easy choice. Paul and George have better songs on REVOLVER than on HELP, plus Ringo gets a song. John's HELP songs are a little better, but not enough to offset the others.
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jul 12, 2010 21:22:29 GMT -5
Totally easy for me. Side 1 of a creative masterpiece versus Side 1 of a plodding album (excepting of course Help! & Ticket To Ride).
"Rock" versus "pop" - and increasingly formulaic pop, too, it can be said (excepting of course Help! & Ticket To Ride).
McCabe
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Joseph McCabe
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jul 12, 2010 21:25:56 GMT -5
REVOLVER SIDE 1 Fairly easy choice. Paul and George have better songs on REVOLVER than on HELP, plus Ringo gets a song. John's HELP songs are a little better, but not enough to offset the others. I'll definitely agree about Paul and George, but hey - John Lennon's two songs on Revolver 1 are masterpieces: I'm Only Sleeping and She Said She Said! (Help & Ticket To Ride are very very good, but not masterpieces.) And wait till you see what Johnnie's got up his sleeve for Revolver 2.
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Post by ursamajor on Jul 13, 2010 2:40:19 GMT -5
Rev S1
Paul's songs on Help S1 are filler , the rest are great but it's up against a masterpiece.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2010 2:56:41 GMT -5
HELP!, Side 1
Good pairing...i couldn't really split them so i picked Help on the strength of Another Girl......
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Post by coachbk on Jul 13, 2010 10:05:09 GMT -5
REVOLVER SIDE 1 Fairly easy choice. Paul and George have better songs on REVOLVER than on HELP, plus Ringo gets a song. John's HELP songs are a little better, but not enough to offset the others. I'll definitely agree about Paul and George, but hey - John Lennon's two songs on Revolver 1 are masterpieces: I'm Only Sleeping and She Said She Said! (Help & Ticket To Ride are very very good, but not masterpieces.) And wait till you see what Johnnie's got up his sleeve for Revolver 2. Definitely agree about the Lennon songs on side two of Revolver. I love "I'm Only Sleeping"-it is as strong as "Help" or "Ticket To Ride". "She Said She Said", while still good, I would put just below "Help", "Ticket", and "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away". Either way we both voted for REVOLVER side 1.
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Post by scousette on Jul 13, 2010 10:33:57 GMT -5
REVOLVER, Side 1
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Post by JCV on Jul 13, 2010 11:47:36 GMT -5
HELP!, Side 1'Cause it has my most favoritist song on it! (I know, I said it was "Hey Bulldog" the other day, but that was on that day. Today it is TNB! ) JCV
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Post by wooltonian on Jul 13, 2010 11:56:59 GMT -5
Revolver - side one
Difficult not to give it to Revolver, really, given all that it stands for in terms of musical progression and superlative songwriting. 'Love you to' and 'Yellow Submarine' are a slight dampener in terms of my listening pleasure, but the rest is absolute top drawer Beatles recorded at their absolute peak.
'Help' side one is a great side of music and I would be sorry to see it go out (the album is hugely under-rated, IMO) but up against the mighty 'Revolver' it falls slightly short.
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Post by acebackwords on Jul 13, 2010 12:38:46 GMT -5
Gotta go with Revolver. "She Said She Said" and "Here THere Everywhere" are two of my all-time fave Beatles tracks. I read somewhere that "Here There and Everywhere" was one of Lennon's favorite Beatles tracks -- which must've been hard to admit since it was a Macca song.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Jul 13, 2010 14:15:36 GMT -5
I have to go with "Help!" on this one. Between "Help!," "Ticket To Ride," "Another Girl," "The Night Before" and "You're Going to Lose That Girl," you have five songs I never get tired of. Some real pop masterpieces in there. The first side of "Revolver" is great, indeed portions are brilliant, but I just have to go with my love of the "Help!" songs on this one.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 13, 2010 22:29:07 GMT -5
REVOLVER, Side 1
While I have somewhat cooled on AHDN over the years, my appreciation and love of HELP! has correspondingly increased since 1987. This album is John and Paul being influenced by Bob Dylan yet retaining their own sound and in fact developing it, pushing the frontiers of popular music as was to be even more evident with Rubber Soul and then Revolver.
Yes, Revolver. The greatest album ever made. There is not a bad song on it and perhaps as high as six, but certainly five, classics, and that's just on Side 1! Whatever minor shortcomings of "Love You To," when that song first starts the listener is forced to take heed and concede that it is a brave new world and that is just as true in 2010 as 1966.
As much as I have become enthralled with The Rolling Stones, the Stones don't have a Revolver and not even close. Man, what an album where McCartney can tell us about a messed up society that can create lonely old spinsters who are discarded like trash while Lennon can look us in the eye(after suppressing a deep yawn) and tell us how messed up the weather is in his own head.
And both of these messed up scenarios matter to us because we are looking around and wondering why our communities are shit and why we ourselves, who ought to know better, keep hurting the ones we love with thoughtless words and deeds. Some answers may thus be found in this music or at least a plausible rationale or deniability! Music to keep us at least moving forward.
Revolver-1 is a highwater mark in Rock if not the highwater mark only equaled next door on Revolver-2.
A universal Revolver album in 1966 could have saved the World. The U.S.(and perhaps elsewhere) got Revolver-lite and we stumbled and missed our only chance of love and happiness.
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jul 13, 2010 23:45:44 GMT -5
While I have somewhat cooled on AHDN over the years, my appreciation and love of HELP! has correspondingly increased since 1987. This album is John and Paul being influenced by Bob Dylan yet retaining their own sound and in fact developing it, pushing the frontiers of popular music as was to be even more evident with Rubber Soul and then Revolver. Beatle fans often make this judgement - that Paul & John (especially John) were influenced by Bob Dylan. But to be honest, I cannot see it at all. The only angle that I can see is that their admiration of Dylan gave them the courage to be more adventurous with words, but they never were wordsmiths like Dylan. And as melody-makers, J & P were already streets ahead of Dylan. Dylan's music is in a different place - especially starting from around 1965, and I can see no influence. Further, I think Help! was the last gasp of the "Pop-go-the-lovable-moptops!" Beatles, rather than first steps in pushing frontiers. Another album like Help! would have started the bells tolling for the Fabs, I feel. Thank god for Rubber Soul. McCabe
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 14, 2010 1:03:24 GMT -5
Beatle fans often make this judgement - that Paul & John (especially John) were influenced by Bob Dylan. But to be honest, I cannot see it at all. The only angle that I can see is that their admiration of Dylan gave them the courage to be more adventurous with words, but they never were wordsmiths like Dylan. And as melody-makers, J & P were already streets ahead of Dylan. Dylan's music is in a different place - especially starting from around 1965, and I can see no influence. Some of us fans feel that way because John and Paul have literally said that Dylan influenced them but I'd agree that the Beatles weren't mere copycats of Dylan. John Lennon: "When I met Dylan I was quite dumbfounded. I'm pretty much a fan type myself, in a way, I stopped being a 'fan' when I started doing it myself. I never went collecting people's autographs or any of that jive. But if I dig somebody, I really dig them. "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away" is my Dylan period....Instead of projecting myself into a situation, I would try to express what I felt about myself, which I'd done in my books. I think it was Dylan who helped me realize that- not by any discussion or anything, but by hearing his work." Anthology, page 157. Paul McCartney: "Vocally and poetically Dylan was a huge influence." Id. I hear Dylan in the whole theme behind the song "Help!" and multi-syllable words like "appreciate." Singing-wise, lots of phrasing by John, the "Hey, you've got to hide your love away. On "Ticket To Ride," where John wails the "' Ah,' she's got a ticket to ride," reminds me of Dylan's wails in "It Ain't Me Babe," of "nah, nah, nah." Better lyrics, more interesting phrasing by the singer, those are what I perceive as Dylan's influence and that is about what Paul said. Yet I am not suggesting that the Fabs became to Dylan what Oasis is to The Beatles: deep disciples(well, I guess George was!). I'd respectfully reply that that is the CW on HELP! but that album breaks new ground in places with more introspective song lyrics, a more varied arrangement of musical instruments(i.e., the lovely use of strings on "Yesterday" and more organs and keyboards than before). On "Ticket To Ride" the boy was living with his girl until she realized that she would never be free with him around. There is Mop-top here and I think of George's two songs and some of Paul's like "Another Girl" but the changes are starting to develop on HELP![/quote]
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Jul 14, 2010 1:41:13 GMT -5
Re the Dylan angle: Despite what John and Paul say, I cannot see the Dylan influence beyond, perhaps, a confidence/courage to be more adventurous. And honestly, I think you are drawing a long bow by mentioning J & P using multisyllabic words: John was a writer - he always had a way with words - multi- or mono-syllabic.
But I'll grant your points about Help! Perhaps I am too severe on it - you make a good case when you say:
There were indications that the frontier was in sight, and about to be expanded!
McCabe
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Post by wooltonian on Jul 14, 2010 2:22:27 GMT -5
I think the problem with 'Help!' (backing McCabe's point) is that much of the filler material shows little or no musical developement - enjoyable as many of those tracks are.
However, (backing JSD's point) there are key tracks on that album ('Yesterday', 'You've got to hide your love away', 'Ticket to ride') that are huge leaps forward.
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Post by ursamajor on Jul 14, 2010 3:26:23 GMT -5
I think the Wool has nailed it.
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Post by RockoRoll on Jul 14, 2010 4:18:53 GMT -5
REVOLVER, Side 1
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Post by joeyself on Jul 14, 2010 12:23:36 GMT -5
I looked at this longer than I thought I would have. On the one hand, REVOLVER 1 has "I'm Only Sleeping," which is easily in my Beatles top 10, and "Here There and Everywhere" and "Taxman," both of which I adore. But it also has a big blemish in "Love You To," one I skip almost every time I play it. HELP! 1 has no such weak spot, and I love the title track as much as any of the three I mentioned above. The rest of the side is consistent, and if not as innovative as REV 1, at least entertaining.
Ultimately, I went with REV 1, because of the power of the big three and despite "Love You To." If only "Rain" had been on the album and "Love You To" had been the b-side to "Paperback Writer"....
JcS
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Post by wooltonian on Jul 14, 2010 12:39:36 GMT -5
Ultimately, I went with REV 1, because of the power of the big three and despite "Love You To." If only "Rain" had been on the album and "Love You To" had been the b-side to "Paperback Writer".... JcS I have mixed feelings about 'Love you to'. Yes, it's one of the weaker tracks on 'Revolver', but in terms of an exotic jaunt into the oriental unknown at least it's short, pithy and gets straight to the point - unlike its half brother on Pepper, 'Within you without you' which is turgid, overlong and sermonising. The bold, striking sitar intro to 'Love you to' is a real muscial statement of intent....a manifesto of new musical and cultural leanings. As JSD rightly says, " Whatever the minor shortcomings of "Love You To," when that song first starts the listener is forced to take heed and concede that it is a brave new world and that is just as true in 2010 as 1966."
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Post by John S. Damm on Jul 14, 2010 13:17:59 GMT -5
I think the problem with 'Help!' (backing McCabe's point) is that much of the filler material shows little or no musical developement - enjoyable as many of those tracks are. However, (backing JSD's point) there are key tracks on that album ('Yesterday', 'You've got to hide your love away', 'Ticket to ride') that are huge leaps forward. Good points, woolie, and where I cannot even begin to argue with J. McCabe was his statement above that: "Another album like Help! would have started the bells tolling for the Fabs, I feel. Thank god for Rubber Soul." Had The Beatles keep churning out albums like HELP!, they would still have been a quite competent band but not The Beatles that we all adore. Not the toppermost of the poppermost. The Beatles would have become like The Stones, Bruce Springsteen or Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers, three bands I love because they are so dependable in recreating their sound album after album after album. You know what you're going to get with these artists and it is always rock solid good music, but with its reassuring familiar sound(I still put the Stones at the top of this pack least anyone think I am fading on them!). The Beatles kept topping themselves album after album(or at least changing themselves) until the end when they necessarily had to implode or explode. The Beatles could not have continued as a band and still mean to us today what they do. They were bound to become like the best of the rest if they continued. Still, HELP! is a damn fine album with some major indications of growth and I bristle when some rock critics knock it in comparison to AHDN(which is also a great, nay masterful, album for 1964 but talk about a sound the Beatles dared not stay stuck on or then they would have become The Knack!). Good discussion on HELP! but I'd hate to forget Revolver in all of this although maybe that shows a much closer consensus here on the greatness of Revolver. I like that HELP! seems to be more divisive: that endears me more to that album.
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Post by vectisfabber on Jul 15, 2010 5:05:52 GMT -5
An interesting digression.
The word "influence" is, I think, used by The Beatles in its purest sense - they were indeed influenced by Dylan. But then, they were also influenced by Chuck Berry, The Everlies, Presley, Sinatra, Peggy Lee, British music hall, and just about everything else going. But, apart from their "trainee" period when they were, broadly, a covers band, "influence" didn't mean "copying". They took those influences and sythesised them into something richer than simple reproductions of the source material. So Dylan's influence is in there, but you can't always tell it's Dylan because it has maybe been passed through another influence or two before it ends up on record.
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Post by theman on Jul 15, 2010 17:41:18 GMT -5
There is not one weak song on Side 1 of Help. Oh, I know some might challenge "Another Girl" or "I Need You" as lyrically weak, but as one melodic, cohesive side of music, I think this side has held up very well (at least to these ears in 2010.)
Conversely, the wildly overrated Revolver, Side 1 sounds a bit dated (especially "I'm Only Sleeping", "Love You Too" and "She Said".) I'm not even a big fan of the overplayed "Eleanor Rigby" and "Here, There and Everywhere". That leaves "Yellow Submarine", a kiddies tune and "Taxman" which is the only song that really rocks on side 1.
Easy, really.
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Post by joeyself on Jul 15, 2010 19:04:59 GMT -5
There is not one weak song on Side 1 of Help. Oh, I know some might challenge "Another Girl" or "I Need You" as lyrically weak, but as one melodic, cohesive side of music, I think this side has held up very well (at least to these ears in 2010.) Even though I voted for REV 1, I agree with you about the cohesiveness of HELP 1. It DOES hold together well as a side, is certainly more consistent, but for the the peaks of REV 1 more than balanced out the valleys. JcS
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Post by Panther on Jul 19, 2010 2:10:08 GMT -5
I've not even voted on any of these, but after glancing over this thread, I just wanna say that: 1) Help! is way better than AHDN -- better songs, better melodies, better lyrics, better performances, better playing, and certainly much more diverse and also better recorded. (Okay, maybe AHDN has better screaming and more energy.) Help! is neither better nor worse than Rubber Soul. If anything, I probably prefer Help! because I think it has no weak songs at all, whereas Rubber Soul has a few.
2) I frickin' love "Love You To". It's by far my favorite of the "Indian" songs, and one of my favorite tracks on Revolver -- I think it's better than any of the Lennon songs on Revolver!
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Post by wooltonian on Jul 19, 2010 3:37:19 GMT -5
2) I frickin' love "Love You To". It's by far my favorite of the "Indian" songs, and one of my favorite tracks on Revolver -- I think it's better than any of the Lennon songs on Revolver! 'Love you to' is definitely my favourite of the Harri's three 'Indian' songs. It rocks harder, is short and to-the-point and it definitely 'adds' to Revolver, giving the album an exotic twist and increasing its already amazing diversity. As JSD mentioned a few posts back, its bold, almost startling opening chord is a harbinger of something new and exciting! -- and a confident statement for George. By contrast WYWY is over-long and ponderous and 'The inner light', although a nice song with a pretty tune, doesn't have the impact of 'Love you to'. I find it almost sad to note that despite this auspicious first attempt, the Beatles only ever recorded two further 'Indian' songs and by the time of the White Album even the incidental use of sitars and other Indian instruments had completely stopped. In many ways, although 'Love you to' promised great things, ultimately it was a bit of a road to nowhere.
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Post by nine on Jul 19, 2010 5:37:55 GMT -5
I've not even voted on any of these, but after glancing over this thread, I just wanna say that: 1) Help! is way better than AHDN -- better songs, better melodies, better lyrics, better performances, better playing, and certainly much more diverse and also better recorded. (Okay, maybe AHDN has better screaming and more energy.) Help! is neither better nor worse than Rubber Soul. If anything, I probably prefer Help! because I think it has no weak songs at all, whereas Rubber Soul has a few. 2) I frickin' love "Love You To". It's by far my favorite of the "Indian" songs, and one of my favorite tracks on Revolver -- I think it's better than any of the Lennon songs on Revolver! 1. Help has some great moments like It's Only Love, The Night Before and You're Gonna Lose That Girl but it ain't all good. You Like Me Too Much is a bit twee... 2. Love You To better than any Lennon track from Revolver? Doesn't your copy of Revolver have And Your Bird Can Sing on it? Just realised, you must have the Capitol version....
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