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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 24, 2012 7:27:59 GMT -5
Comment and/or Vote on this solo song~!
4=Great 3=Good 2=Average 1=Crap
"(Forgive Me) My Little Flower Princess" - John Lennon, MILK AND HONEY (1984)
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 24, 2012 7:29:44 GMT -5
2 -- I thought I'd pick a John song that I'm just not wild about. I rate it "Average" at best. Of course, John had not finished this song before he died, and all of MILK AND HONEY is arguably not the best it could have been had John been around to fine tune it.
It's just rather "meh", this song.
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Post by mikev on Mar 24, 2012 8:26:56 GMT -5
this is definitely one of the more unfinished and weaker numbers.
John ran through these in the studio, but similar to the Walls and Bridges material on Menlove Avenue, it is "live" and raw.
The numerous other unfinished songs we have mentioned were never played through with other musicians, but many were better than this.
I give it a 2.
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 24, 2012 11:15:39 GMT -5
3 for me. I liked this one more than many of the other more finished M&H songs. It is tender.
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Post by joshferrell on Mar 24, 2012 16:15:29 GMT -5
2 for me..it sounds like the least finished studio song on the whole album
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Post by ursamajor on Mar 24, 2012 16:39:32 GMT -5
3 - I like this song alot, it has a nice melody. I heard the original acoustic demo on one of those bootleg Lennon cd's and it sounded great, disappointed it wasn't on Acoustic.
Yes it's still unfinished in this form even with the lyrics but it would have made a very good album track if completed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2012 16:42:14 GMT -5
A 2 from me...
This song would've had more work or stayed in the can if history hadn't have been so fateful.
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kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
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Post by kc on Mar 24, 2012 17:51:27 GMT -5
2 (average) I think it is OK, without being anything special.
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 24, 2012 21:05:42 GMT -5
4
I love the Milk and Honey John songs. This song included. Very nice guitar work on it.
I like the part at the end where he seems to sense the criticism that the song might receive and he shouts "I'M HOME!". It's like he's saying this is it, this is me now. This is where I'm at. Of course I may be wrong.
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Post by coachbk on Mar 24, 2012 23:22:52 GMT -5
2 I really like most of the MILK AND HONEY/DOUBLE FANTASY songs a lot, but this is not one of them. Not bad, but probably the weakest of John's contributions.
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kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
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Post by kc on Mar 25, 2012 0:32:02 GMT -5
2 I really like most of the MILK AND HONEY/DOUBLE FANTASY songs a lot, but this is not one of them. Not bad, but probably the weakest of John's contributions. So why do you rate it as 2 (average) if you don't like it? Why not 1 (crap)? Just wondering. To me average is OK, a pass, not a failure.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 25, 2012 1:42:47 GMT -5
This is one of the worst John solo songs of all. If it had a nice arrangement it could be lifted to near a 2 possibly. As it is it is, its a 1 for me. Come on, compare this to even the lesser songs on albums like Walls and Bridges--Scared or Old Dirt Road. Those are great compared to this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2012 1:51:39 GMT -5
Here are the lyrics.....
Forgive me my little flower princess For crushing your delicateness Forgive me, if you could forgive me Forgive me my little flower princess For selfishness Forgive me, forgive me Well I know there is no way to repay you Whatever it takes I will try to The rest of my life I will thank you (thank you, thank you) My little... If you'll forgive me my little flower princess Never too late unless you can't forgive... Time is on our side Let's not waste another minute 'Cause I love you my little friend I really love you Give me just one more chance And I'll show you -- take up the dance Where we left off The rest of our life is the...my little (I'm home)
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 25, 2012 1:51:53 GMT -5
Well, RTP, don't forget the song was not finished.
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Post by vectisfabber on Mar 25, 2012 6:10:24 GMT -5
"Delicateness"? S/be "delicacy"?
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Post by coachbk on Mar 25, 2012 8:31:18 GMT -5
2 I really like most of the MILK AND HONEY/DOUBLE FANTASY songs a lot, but this is not one of them. Not bad, but probably the weakest of John's contributions. So why do you rate it as 2 (average) if you don't like it? Why not 1 (crap)? Just wondering. To me average is OK, a pass, not a failure. Note that I said I like most of the other songs a lot. Just about every other song on MILK AND HONEY/DOUBLE FANTASY of John's would rate a 3 or a 4. There are no songs of John's I would rate as a "1" on this album. Put John's songs from these two albums together and it would become my favorite of his solo albums.
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kc
Beatle Freak
Posts: 1,085
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Post by kc on Mar 25, 2012 17:43:20 GMT -5
OK.
Readily support your last point.
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Post by anyoneanyhow on Mar 25, 2012 18:54:38 GMT -5
I give this one an "incomplete".
If Lennon had finished and release it, I'd give it a 1 1/2- below average, not quite crap, but certainly weak. But as it's a release of a work in progress, it's only fair to call it incomplete.
There are many examples through his career where John would re-work and re-work a song until it evolves into something different, better. Interesting how the least patient Beatle has the patence to wait until his works were completed, and not put out dashed-off ditties until he was completely satisfied.
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Post by anyoneanyhow on Mar 25, 2012 18:56:21 GMT -5
This is one of the worst John solo songs of all. If it had a nice arrangement it could be lifted to near a 2 possibly. As it is it is, its a 1 for me. Come on, compare this to even the lesser songs on albums like Walls and Bridges--Scared or Old Dirt Road. Those are great compared to this. I quite like Old Dirt Road and Scared, I think they are very effective. Are you thinking of Steel and Glass, perhaps? That's a lesser song. Or Ya Ya.
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 25, 2012 19:29:41 GMT -5
This is one of the worst John solo songs of all. If it had a nice arrangement it could be lifted to near a 2 possibly. As it is it is, its a 1 for me. Come on, compare this to even the lesser songs on albums like Walls and Bridges--Scared or Old Dirt Road. Those are great compared to this. I quite like Old Dirt Road and Scared, I think they are very effective. Are you thinking of Steel and Glass, perhaps? That's a lesser song. Or Ya Ya. Steel and Glass - 4 Great Old Dirt Road - 4 Great Flower Princess - 4 Great Scared - 2 Average Ya Ya - 1.5 Crap to Average
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 26, 2012 11:36:54 GMT -5
Well, RTP, don't forget the song was not finished. That's true. Since it was released after John's death I could see giving it a 2 since he probably never meant to release it in that form. That's really giving it the benefit of the doubt. As it stands, it really doesn't rise up to that.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 26, 2012 11:41:52 GMT -5
I quite like Old Dirt Road and Scared, I think they are very effective. Are you thinking of Steel and Glass, perhaps? That's a lesser song. Or Ya Ya. Steel and Glass - 4 Great Old Dirt Road - 4 Great Flower Princess - 4 Great Scared - 2 Average Ya Ya - 1.5 Crap to Average If you give this a 4 what do you give Strawberry Fields Forever? It doesn't seem like they deserve the same rating. I really wouldn't rate too many of John's solo songs a 1. Joe just happened to pick a couple of them out. I think John Sinclair was another.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 26, 2012 11:45:14 GMT -5
This is one of the worst John solo songs of all. If it had a nice arrangement it could be lifted to near a 2 possibly. As it is it is, its a 1 for me. Come on, compare this to even the lesser songs on albums like Walls and Bridges--Scared or Old Dirt Road. Those are great compared to this. I quite like Old Dirt Road and Scared, I think they are very effective. Are you thinking of Steel and Glass, perhaps? That's a lesser song. Or Ya Ya. Old Dirt Road and Scared are not bad at all. I rated them average considering John's best solo work like Jealous Guy or God.
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 26, 2012 18:01:51 GMT -5
Steel and Glass - 4 Great Old Dirt Road - 4 Great Flower Princess - 4 Great Scared - 2 Average Ya Ya - 1.5 Crap to Average If you give this a 4 what do you give Strawberry Fields Forever? It doesn't seem like they deserve the same rating. I really wouldn't rate too many of John's solo songs a 1. Joe just happened to pick a couple of them out. I think John Sinclair was another. Good point. I guess if I couldn't get away with rating Strawberry Fields a 5, I go for a 4.5. Joe said the .5s were legal.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 27, 2012 8:51:23 GMT -5
If you give this a 4 what do you give Strawberry Fields Forever? It doesn't seem like they deserve the same rating. I really wouldn't rate too many of John's solo songs a 1. Joe just happened to pick a couple of them out. I think John Sinclair was another. Good point. I guess if I couldn't get away with rating Strawberry Fields a 5, I go for a 4.5. Joe said the .5s were legal. Maybe we do need a fifth level like "Magical". After all "there is a fifth dimension..." Sorry, that was a Twilight Zone flashback. Love that show. If anyone else does we should start a favorite Twilight Zone episode thread--Beatles related Twillight Zones of course. For example the Twilight Zone that was on the Friday before their appearance on Ed Sullivan (February 7, 1964). It was "Night Call" starring beloved British movie actress Gladys Cooper. Acclaimed horror film director Jacques Tourneur (Cat People) directed this this great episode. Interesting fact about this episode is that it was orignally scheduled for Friday, November 22, 1963, but was postponed due to Kennedy's assassination. The plot is based on an urban legend: An elderly woman, Elva Keene, receives strange anonymous phone calls. During the first calls she hears only static. Later she hears a man moaning and she repeatedly demands to know who is calling. Finally he says "Hello? Where are you? I want to talk to you." Elva, terrified, screams at the man to leave her alone. The phone company traces the cause to a telephone line that has fallen in a cemetery. Elva and her housekeeper visit the cemetery where she finds that the line is resting on the grave of her long-deceased fiancé, Brian Douglas. Elva says that she always insisted on having her own way, and Brian always did what she said. A week before they were to be married, she insisted on driving and lost control of the car. The accident killed Brian and crippled her. Now that she can talk to him again she won't have to be alone. At home she picks up the phone and calls out to Brian, pleading with him to answer. He replies that she told him to leave her alone and that he always does what she says. Then the line goes dead, leaving Elva alone and crying in her bed.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 27, 2012 9:54:49 GMT -5
Maybe we do need a fifth level like "Magical". After all "there is a fifth dimension..." I hope I'm not being a killjoy here, but I really would rather not make this so complicated. I belong to a movie board where some people like to rate movies from 1 to 10, which i think is really nitpicking. I was afraid that these "Song Of The Day" threads might get too technical with a ratings system. But I wanted to generalize the rating to the basic four: 1 - Crap (or Poor) 2 - Average (or Fair) 3 - Good 4 - Great (or Excellent, or Exceptional, or Magical, etc) On my scale, 4 is best and 1 is worst. That's why I like to go by the classic four-star movie ratings guide. Or if people feel they're getting hung up with numbers here, I can eliminate the voting if you like. Really, my main interest is people talking and discussing the songs, not what numbers things get. I'm fine with ".5" additions, but 4 should be the Ultimate Top Rating. RTP -- I know it's always tempting to compare songs with things like "well, you think this is as good as STRAWBERRY FIELDS?? Then shouldn't SF be a 5...??" .... this also occurs in movie ratings. But it does not have to be so precise or competitive from one song to another. You either think a song is Excellent, Good, Average, or Lousy -- that's pretty much as basic as it gets.
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Post by vectisfabber on Mar 27, 2012 10:11:54 GMT -5
"These go up to 11."
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Post by mikev on Mar 27, 2012 11:47:26 GMT -5
No no no...that is "Listen to the Flower People" ;D
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Mar 27, 2012 12:25:34 GMT -5
Maybe we do need a fifth level like "Magical". After all "there is a fifth dimension..." I hope I'm not being a killjoy here, but I really would rather not make this so complicated. I belong to a movie board where some people like to rate movies from 1 to 10, which i think is really nitpicking. I was afraid that these "Song Of The Day" threads might get too technical with a ratings system. But I wanted to generalize the rating to the basic four: 1 - Crap (or Poor) 2 - Average (or Fair) 3 - Good 4 - Great (or Excellent, or Exceptional, or Magical, etc) On my scale, 4 is best and 1 is worst. That's why I like to go by the classic four-star movie ratings guide. Or if people feel they're getting hung up with numbers here, I can eliminate the voting if you like. Really, my main interest is people talking and discussing the songs, not what numbers things get. I'm fine with ".5" additions, but 4 should be the Ultimate Top Rating. RTP -- I know it's always tempting to compare songs with things like "well, you think this is as good as STRAWBERRY FIELDS?? Then shouldn't SF be a 5...??" .... this also occurs in movie ratings. But it does not have to be so precise or competitive from one song to another. You either think a song is Excellent, Good, Average, or Lousy -- that's pretty much as basic as it gets. I'll buy that. Keep it at 4 levels keep it simple. BTW Joe, you're doing a great job picking songs for the solo song series. I like the way many of the songs picked are the not-so-obvious choices. I was wondering how our discussion about going to a five-tier rating system would have gone if we were Paul and George in the Let It Be movie. It might have been like this: Joe K: "It's complicated. We can keep it simpler, and then complicate it where it needs complication." RTP: "It's not complicated." Joe K: "This one is like, shall we do a comparison of the top 31 solo songs from 1970 to 1972 ...well, I don't think we should." RTP: "Ok well I don't mind... I'll play, you know, however you want me to play, or I won't play at all if you don't want to me to play. Whatever it is that will please you... I'll do it!"
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 27, 2012 18:33:30 GMT -5
Good point. I guess if I couldn't get away with rating Strawberry Fields a 5, I go for a 4.5. Joe said the .5s were legal. Maybe we do need a fifth level like "Magical". After all "there is a fifth dimension..." Sorry, that was a Twilight Zone flashback. Love that show. If anyone else does we should start a favorite Twilight Zone episode thread--Beatles related Twillight Zones of course. How about the Suzy Parker Twilight Zone, #12 Looks Just Like You. It's the one where people had surgery to look beautiful. There were several models, Suzy Parker being one of them. Suzy was in a car crash during the filming and almost didn't finish it. (Maybe she was secretely replaced by a look-alike.) If there are no 4.5s, drop all of my 4s down to 3.5. There are no solo Beatle songs as good as Strawberry Fields.
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