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Post by joeyself on Jan 20, 2014 0:56:25 GMT -5
I'm now to the point where John's mom died, and it struck me that one reason I am enjoying this so much is the telling of the teenage years in a way I've either not read or not paid that much attention to. I think a large part of that is that I have a 16 year old in my house--just the age Paul was at this point--and he has friends over to the house often. Some we like, some we don't--just like parental reaction we see in the book to the friends of each of the lads.
I've also noticed the lack of parental supervision for these guys. Lennon, of course, wasn't from a traditional household. Paul and George were, although the death of Paul's mom changed that a bit. Ringo didn't have a traditional upbringing, either--a broken home, serious illness which caused him to fail in school. They all seemed to roam free--a lot freer than a teen should be allowed to do today, methinks.
And how the Teds keep popping up in the story is interesting; how the authorities either couldn't or wouldn't do anything to quell the violence against its young citizens is chilling.
Again, it's fascinating stuff.
JcS
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Post by joeyself on Jan 30, 2014 0:15:21 GMT -5
I saw on Mark's Twitter today that the expanded addition is now "sold out." I suspect there are still some to be had, but if you're thinking about getting one, I'd think a bit quicker...
JcS
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Jan 31, 2014 19:35:02 GMT -5
I saw on Mark's Twitter today that the expanded addition is now "sold out." I suspect there are still some to be had, but if you're thinking about getting one, I'd think a bit quicker... JcS I saw none for sale on Amazon.co.uk. I'm guessing, though, it'll come back into print at some point. It would only make sense if the demand is there. I'm surprised, though, it sold out. My understanding was it was not a limited edition.
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Post by joeyself on Feb 1, 2014 12:21:05 GMT -5
I saw on Mark's Twitter today that the expanded addition is now "sold out." I suspect there are still some to be had, but if you're thinking about getting one, I'd think a bit quicker... JcS I saw none for sale on Amazon.co.uk. I'm guessing, though, it'll come back into print at some point. It would only make sense if the demand is there. I'm surprised, though, it sold out. My understanding was it was not a limited edition. I don't understand the publishing business these days; I know the digital revolution has turned it on its ear almost as much as the music industry has been flipped. With my limited understand, I can not comprehend why a digital edition of the deluxe version was not available in the USA. How much money would it take to produce such? It would have to be a fraction of the cost of printing a run of the standard edition of the hard copy. Maybe Crown (the US publisher) feared having it here would cannibalize the hard copy sales, but they would be getting a cut of either sale. The fact that it sold out in the UK should tell the Yanks something--didn't they learn anything from what happened a little over 50 years ago? JcS
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Post by coachbk on Feb 13, 2014 16:24:53 GMT -5
All done! I have really enjoyed reading this. This era of the Beatles is generally about 1 or 2 chapters in most biographies. Though I am reading the footnotes. Volume 2 hurry up (yes I know it will be 5 years at least).
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Feb 13, 2014 20:50:29 GMT -5
All done! I have really enjoyed reading this. This era of the Beatles is generally about 1 or 2 chapters in most biographies. Though I am reading the footnotes. Volume 2 hurry up (yes I know it will be 5 years at least). I am just finishing Book 1 of the Extended Version. Had Mark sign it at Beatlefest. Mark had mentioned Walter Legge briefly in Book 1. He was one of EMI's top producers in its classical division. Handled Maria Callas' opera career among others. I told Mark that I was Walter's last protege. We had met in the summer of 1978 and Walter sponsored me in my European recital debut at The Wigmore Hall in London on May 19, 1979. I was 24 years old at the time. Ironically it was, I believe, the same weekend Ringo married Barbara in London and George & Paul attended the wedding and they all jammed at the reception. John had declined to attend. I wasn't very far from that party! Should have offered to sing at the wedding! Anyway, I digressed. Mark was fascinated that I knew Legge at EMI and we chatted a few moments about the company and the George Martin issue around the signing of The Beatles. I told Mark I hope I live long enough to read the last two Volumes of his project, and more importantly, HE lives long enough to finish it! He agreed! Now on to Book 2 of the first volume.. PS Mark said at Beatlefest he has at this date , heard nothing from either Paul nor Ringo about their reactions to the book, though he knows Paul's song in "NEW" (Early Days) was directed at him. He said he is fairly confident though that Paul will indeed read it....
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Post by mikev on Feb 13, 2014 21:01:33 GMT -5
All done! I have really enjoyed reading this. This era of the Beatles is generally about 1 or 2 chapters in most biographies. Though I am reading the footnotes. Volume 2 hurry up (yes I know it will be 5 years at least). I am just finishing Book 1 of the Extended Version. Had Mark sign it at Beatlefest. Mark had mentioned Walter Legge briefly in Book 1. He was one of EMI's top producers in its classical division. Handled Maria Callas' opera career among others. I told Mark that I was Walter's last protege. We had met in the summer of 1978 and Walter sponsored me in my European recital debut at The Wigmore Hall in London on May 19, 1979. I was 24 years old at the time. Ironically it was, I believe, the same weekend Ringo married Barbara in London and George & Paul attended the wedding and they all jammed at the reception. John had declined to attend. I wasn't very far from that party! Should have offered to sing at the wedding! Anyway, I digressed. Mark was fascinated that I knew Legge at EMI and we chatted a few moments about the company and the George Martin issue around the signing of The Beatles. I told Mark I hope I live long enough to read the last two Volumes of his project, and more importantly, HE lives long enough to finish it! He agreed! Now on to Book 2 of the first volume.. PS Mark said at Beatlefest he has at this date , heard nothing from either Paul nor Ringo about their reactions to the book, though he knows Paul's song in "NEW" (Early Days) was directed at him. He said he is fairly confident though that Paul will indeed read it.... I think you are mistaking Patti Boyd's wedding with Clapton in May 1979 where Lennon was not invited, but the threetles jammed. After John passed Ringo and Barbara were married, and the threetles again jammed and were photographed together in LIFE Magazine. But wow- imagine if you were able to attend the May party-though I heard it (the jam) was atrocious. And that is a very cool story about Legge.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Feb 13, 2014 23:28:34 GMT -5
I am just finishing Book 1 of the Extended Version. Had Mark sign it at Beatlefest. Mark had mentioned Walter Legge briefly in Book 1. He was one of EMI's top producers in its classical division. Handled Maria Callas' opera career among others. I told Mark that I was Walter's last protege. We had met in the summer of 1978 and Walter sponsored me in my European recital debut at The Wigmore Hall in London on May 19, 1979. I was 24 years old at the time. Ironically it was, I believe, the same weekend Ringo married Barbara in London and George & Paul attended the wedding and they all jammed at the reception. John had declined to attend. I wasn't very far from that party! Should have offered to sing at the wedding! Anyway, I digressed. Mark was fascinated that I knew Legge at EMI and we chatted a few moments about the company and the George Martin issue around the signing of The Beatles. I told Mark I hope I live long enough to read the last two Volumes of his project, and more importantly, HE lives long enough to finish it! He agreed! Now on to Book 2 of the first volume.. PS Mark said at Beatlefest he has at this date , heard nothing from either Paul nor Ringo about their reactions to the book, though he knows Paul's song in "NEW" (Early Days) was directed at him. He said he is fairly confident though that Paul will indeed read it.... I think you are mistaking Patti Boyd's wedding with Clapton in May 1979 where Lennon was not invited, but the threetles jammed. After John passed Ringo and Barbara were married, and the threetles again jammed and were photographed together in LIFE Magazine. But wow- imagine if you were able to attend the May party-though I heard it (the jam) was atrocious. And that is a very cool story about Legge. You are right Mike. It was 35 years ago. I did remember there was a wedding that weekend I sang in London and that three of the Beatles attended and jammed at. Just got the bride and groom wrong!
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Post by John S. Damm on Feb 14, 2014 12:06:16 GMT -5
lowbasso, neat post! Did ML give you any rough timelines about the next two volumes. Wasn't it written here somewhere that Volume III is slated for 2028! I am hoping that is not accurate.
And I just knew "Early Days" was aimed at least in part at ML without ever reading Paul say that and ML agrees!
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Feb 14, 2014 13:00:18 GMT -5
lowbasso, neat post! Did ML give you any rough timelines about the next two volumes. Wasn't it written here somewhere that Volume III is slated for 2028! I am hoping that is not accurate. And I just knew "Early Days" was aimed at least in part at ML without ever reading Paul say that and ML agrees! I didn't hear him say anything at the Fest about when it will be completed, but I recall him saying earlier as well it will be around 2025-28 when the last volume will be out. I will be in my 70's! A lot of 1st generation fans I fear will not live to see its completion. Many of those that do will be in late 70's and 80's. Paul will be 86 and Ringo 88 in 2028. I would think the research will not take so much time for the second and third volumes as there was, and is, so much information on the band from those periods.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 14, 2014 13:32:05 GMT -5
I didn't hear him say anything at the Fest about when it will be completed, but I recall him saying earlier as well it will be around 2025-28 when the last volume will be out. I will be in my 70's! A lot of 1st generation fans I fear will not live to see its completion. Many of those that do will be in late 70's and 80's. Paul will be 86 and Ringo 88 in 2028. I would think the research will not take so much time for the second and third volumes as there was, and is, so much information on the band from those periods. I'll be 63 - 66 then -- not tooooo bad...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2014 0:46:51 GMT -5
2028 is only 14 years away and some are pondering if they'll still be here on this mortal coil.
Whoever wrote the line, "Life is very short" was sure on the money.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Feb 15, 2014 12:11:25 GMT -5
2028 is only 14 years away and some are pondering if they'll still be here on this mortal coil. Whoever wrote the line, "Life is very short" was sure on the money. If you are just 14 years old, then 14 years is a lifetime. You'll be twice as old as you are now in 14 years. If you are middle age; 20-65, then 14 years can go so fast you won't realize it and likely you'll be around no doubt. I hope Mark is in this category too... If you are a 70 year old 1st generation fan, then your odds of making it another 14 years are probably 50-50. If you are a 75-80 year old fan, or Ringo's age (74 this year), you better hope Mark collects his facts quickly and discovers he can finish the project ahead of schedule. But then again, if you're not around for the last book, you are probably in the first row at the big Reunion Concerts in the sky! Which do you prefer? Hearing what went on down here in the 60's or hearing brand new Lennon, McCartney, & Harrison songs live from the Fabs in concert?
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Post by John S. Damm on Feb 15, 2014 12:58:09 GMT -5
I didn't hear him say anything at the Fest about when it will be completed, but I recall him saying earlier as well it will be around 2025-28 when the last volume will be out. I will be in my 70's! A lot of 1st generation fans I fear will not live to see its completion. Many of those that do will be in late 70's and 80's. Paul will be 86 and Ringo 88 in 2028. I would think the research will not take so much time for the second and third volumes as there was, and is, so much information on the band from those periods. I'll be 63 - 66 then -- not tooooo bad... Me too but by then you and I will be digging the band that is the "next Beatles" and we won't then care. All of our Beatles stuff sold to support the new habit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2014 5:45:24 GMT -5
I'll be 63 - 66 then -- not tooooo bad... Me too but by then you and I will be digging the band that is the "next Beatles" and we won't then care. All of our Beatles stuff sold to support the new habit. Will you be a moderator on this new band's forum, or will you be the forum owner. I think the next big band will have a lead singer who plays saxophone at the same time, that will make them unique.
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Post by vectisfabber on Feb 19, 2014 8:53:20 GMT -5
But then again, if you're not around for the last book, you are probably in the first row at the big Reunion Concerts in the sky! Which do you prefer? Hearing what went on down here in the 60's or hearing brand new Lennon, McCartney, & Harrison songs live from the Fabs in concert? It's a nice thought, but a bit science fiction-y for my taste.
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Post by John S. Damm on Feb 19, 2014 10:37:23 GMT -5
Me too but by then you and I will be digging the band that is the "next Beatles" and we won't then care. All of our Beatles stuff sold to support the new habit. Will you be a moderator on this new band's forum, or will you be the forum owner. I think the next big band will have a lead singer who plays saxophone at the same time, that will make them unique. Because they will be from Venus!
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Post by joeyself on Feb 21, 2014 16:57:46 GMT -5
I have finished the first volume and am around page 900--the second volume picks up the page number where the first one left off. The guys are back in Hamburg, and it looks like Paul was pinching pennies (farthings?) and wouldn't buy a new guitar, so he wound up playing piano and doing some lead singing without an instrument. His excuse was that he didn't want to buy another one "on the drip"--time payments. Since he had an actual wage-paying job for the months before he went back to Hamburg, in addition to what he earned playing at nights, I would have thought he could have found a guitar he could afford.
Or he could have just had Lennon steal one for him...
Paul does not come off well over the past 200 or so pages.
JcS
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2014 0:10:16 GMT -5
I have finished the first volume and am around page 900--the second volume picks up the page number where the first one left off. The guys are back in Hamburg, and it looks like Paul was pinching pennies (farthings?) and wouldn't buy a new guitar, so he wound up playing piano and doing some lead singing without an instrument. His excuse was that he didn't want to buy another one "on the drip"--time payments. Since he had an actual wage-paying job for the months before he went back to Hamburg, in addition to what he earned playing at nights, I would have thought he could have found a guitar he could afford. Or he could have just had Lennon steal one for him... Paul does not come off well over the past 200 or so pages. JcS Maybe that's why Paul revises the past, he's trying to eliminate his faults and claim extra credits for the Beatle's success so that he's looked on more fondly when he's gone.
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Post by joeyself on Feb 26, 2014 22:11:58 GMT -5
I have finished the first volume and am around page 900--the second volume picks up the page number where the first one left off. The guys are back in Hamburg, and it looks like Paul was pinching pennies (farthings?) and wouldn't buy a new guitar, so he wound up playing piano and doing some lead singing without an instrument. His excuse was that he didn't want to buy another one "on the drip"--time payments. Since he had an actual wage-paying job for the months before he went back to Hamburg, in addition to what he earned playing at nights, I would have thought he could have found a guitar he could afford. Or he could have just had Lennon steal one for him... Paul does not come off well over the past 200 or so pages. JcS Maybe that's why Paul revises the past, he's trying to eliminate his faults and claim extra credits for the Beatle's success so that he's looked on more fondly when he's gone. Perhaps; however, among some of the ones that are in the know, he's having the opposite effect (if your thesis is correct as to why he engages in revisionism). I am to the point where Brian has made his first trip to the Cavern. I can't wait to see what happens next! JcS
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Mar 2, 2014 15:12:35 GMT -5
I am currently in the chapter where Brian signed up The Beatles in Nov./Dec. 1961. Mark Lewisohn lists as a footnote all the "pioneering bands" around Britain at this moment in time that were trying to gain fame, all of them without a recording contract. Check out how many of these groups you would recognize;
1) The Kansas City Five (with Alan Price, Eric Burdon, and John Steel).
2) Gerry Levine and The Avengers (with future Moody Blues man Graeme Edge)
3) Dave Clark Five (at this time with a Ballroom beat, a modern-day dance band)
4) Brian Poole & The Tremilos
5) The Detours (with Roger Daltrey and John Entwistle, doing pop at this time).
6) The Moontrekkers (Featuring not yet 17 year-old lead singer Rod Stewart).
7) Little Boy Blue and The Blue Boys (with Mick Jagger, who was still attending the London School of Economics, and Keith Richards and Dick Taylor). They didn't play gigs, but just rehearsed at Jagger's flat covering Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Elvis, and Richie Valens songs from records Jagger bought through the mail from Chess Records in Chicago.
8) And in America The Pendletones just cut their first record. (Brian, Carl, & Dennis Wilson, Mike Love, and Al Jardine). The record company changed their name to The Beach Boys after the song was released.
Dozens of other bands in the UK, that eventually faded into history.
Amazing that The Beatles were on the verge of distintegrating as a band due to a dulling routine of playing the same few venues around Liverpool in mid to late 1961,Cavern included, for very little money, and not really looking forward to going back to Hamburg and playing 6-7 days a week, 6 or more hours a night, and living in pretty awful conditions. They were so desperate, that two of their female Cavern fans were attempting to "manage" them. Along with half-hearted attempts by Mona Best and her son Pete Best doing some contracts. Clearly a reason why Pete wasn't sacked earlier by the band. Then along comes Brian, and things changed quickly as they began auditioning for a record contract in London. Without Brian, the band, in all likelihood, would have folded in early 1962.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Mar 2, 2014 15:52:51 GMT -5
If you think the Lewisohn situation (with two more books in how many years) is bad, if you're following the Jude Kessler Lennon series that has seven more to go, I think. Between her and Lewisohn, I need to find a fountain of youth.
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Post by Panther on Apr 2, 2014 7:19:23 GMT -5
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Post by scousette on Apr 2, 2014 10:33:17 GMT -5
Thanks, panther. That was an insightful interview with Lewisohn.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Apr 19, 2014 11:36:44 GMT -5
I am in the book where Brian has just been told by G. Martin that he has decided to record The Beatles in May 1962. I am wondering that since it seems apparent neither Brian nor The Beatles had an incling as to the real reason they got the recording contract; ie. the publishing wing of EMI's desire to publish an L&M song, and Sir Lew Wood's decision to tell G. Martin to set up a recording session with the band, even though Martin had previously shown no interest on first hearing the Decca acetate. I wonder if this is the first time Paul is finding out the reasons behind the securing of their first recording contract; that is, assuming he is reading the book. Would love to hear Paul's reactions and comments on this revelatory piece of Beatles history that seems to have been buried until now. Of course it goes without saying, G. Martin's comments on this subject would be interesting too.
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Post by anyoneanyhow on Apr 19, 2014 18:54:13 GMT -5
I hope Paul's not reading the book. He might not like how he came across in the Early Days.
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Post by Panther on Apr 19, 2014 22:33:19 GMT -5
Paul and Ringo are probably not reading it (I think Ringo already said he wouldn't), which is a shame, as they won't know how different this book is from all previous such that treated this early period. Ringo always complains that books only discuss him from 1962-1970; well, here's a book that goes into great detail about his life in the 40s and 50s, and paints a very flattering portrait of him at that, and he says he'll ignore it.
Frankly, I do think Paul was a bit of an ass in his youth, and any book that strives for accuracy will inevitably turn this up. The difference here between John and Paul -- who both could be asses -- is that John might be an ass to random people or outsiders and strangers, but he was ultimately caring and loyal to his insiders (The Beatles and fans, friends, etc.). By contrast, Paul could be quite charming and lovable to those people outside the inner circles, but he could be a total ass to his own bandmates and family, friends, etc.
Paul is obviously sensitive about this (call it his Catholic guilt side), and he's tried to own up to it in interviews and such in the past 20 years. But maybe he doesn't want to be reminded of it in print.
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Post by Panther on Apr 19, 2014 22:38:21 GMT -5
Of course it goes without saying, G. Martin's comments on this subject would be interesting too. They would, but let's remember two things: (1) George Martin never -- even in the early 1970s -- seemed to 'remember' things accurately, as even in that 1971 Melody Maker interview about his first work with The Beatles he seemed to mis-remember what happened and in what chronology; and (2) Martin will be 90 years old in just over a year and a half from now, so he's not likely (though not for sure, mind you) to actually have very sharp faculties for remembering events a half century ago. Then again, at 90, he probably remembers 1962 better than he does what he had for breakfast yesterday... The advanced age of so many (surviving) principles of The Beatles' story is one reason why Lewisohn's research is so important and timely. I do hope he gets all three books done. My prediction for the titles: - Tune In - Tune Up - Tune Down
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 5:34:24 GMT -5
Of course it goes without saying, G. Martin's comments on this subject would be interesting too. They would, but let's remember two things: (1) George Martin never -- even in the early 1970s -- seemed to 'remember' things accurately, as even in that 1971 Melody Maker interview about his first work with The Beatles he seemed to mis-remember what happened and in what chronology; and (2) Martin will be 90 years old in just over a year and a half from now, so he's not likely (though not for sure, mind you) to actually have very sharp faculties for remembering events a half century ago. Then again, at 90, he probably remembers 1962 better than he does what he had for breakfast yesterday... The advanced age of so many (surviving) principles of The Beatles' story is one reason why Lewisohn's research is so important and timely. I do hope he gets all three books done. My prediction for the titles: - Tune In - Tune Up - Tune Down If most of the (surviving) principles of The Beatles' story have died by the time Lewisohn releases book 3 it might be called Tune Out
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Apr 20, 2014 12:05:42 GMT -5
Of course it goes without saying, G. Martin's comments on this subject would be interesting too. They would, but let's remember two things: (1) George Martin never -- even in the early 1970s -- seemed to 'remember' things accurately, as even in that 1971 Melody Maker interview about his first work with The Beatles he seemed to mis-remember what happened and in what chronology; and (2) Martin will be 90 years old in just over a year and a half from now, so he's not likely (though not for sure, mind you) to actually have very sharp faculties for remembering events a half century ago. Then again, at 90, he probably remembers 1962 better than he does what he had for breakfast yesterday... The advanced age of so many (surviving) principles of The Beatles' story is one reason why Lewisohn's research is so important and timely. I do hope he gets all three books done. My prediction for the titles: - Tune In - Tune Up - Tune Down If someone brings up this issue with George and tells him what Lewisohn has uncovered, that might jar his memory. Especially the issue of his affair with Lew Wood's secretary Judy, (who becames his current wife), which is why Mr. Wood told him he was going to record The Beatles after he had already turned them down. Maybe his wife Judy might be quite familiar with this story as well, and I believe she is still alive? This story was clearly buried all these years as Martin has claimed he made the decision on his own to record The Beatles, not forced into it because of his personal affair with the boss' secretary.
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