lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Sept 11, 2012 12:05:43 GMT -5
The BBC Documentary on George Martin's career is out and available today on DVD.
Already ordered mine from Amazon.
Nice article in today's Wall Street Journal on the subject. What is shocking is George is now legally deaf. He is 86 years old, wears two hearing aids and basically lip-reads when talking with someone in conversation. Too many years with the headphones blasting at high decibels, music in his ears while he was a producer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 7:54:49 GMT -5
The BBC Documentary on George Martin's career is out and available today on DVD. Already ordered mine from Amazon. Nice article in today's Wall Street Journal on the subject. What is shocking is George is now legally deaf. He is 86 years old, wears two hearing aids and basically lip-reads when talking with someone in conversation. Too many years with the headphones blasting at high decibels, music in his ears while he was a producer. All you need is ears... more apt now for old George Martin
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Sept 16, 2012 22:09:59 GMT -5
Received my copy of this DVD and watched it yesterday. Great BBC documentary on G. Martin. Some wonderful recollections, the soundtrack in the film is all music Martin produced.
Some nice moments with Ringo and Paul each commenting with George Martin individually about his military career prior to the record business as well as recalling a few choice moments of his years with The Beatles. Nothing revelatory, though there was a moment George and Ringo spoke about Ringo's first session at EMI with The Beatles, when I thought we might get some insight into why Martin wasn't pleased with Ringo's first session and hired Andy White, but it didn't happen. It seemed like Martin still thinks he brought in White for that first EMI session, and not the second one a week later after passing judgement on Ringo's first attempts at "Love Me Do." And Ringo didn't challenge that. Maybe he can't remember the sequence of events either after 50 years.
One little tidbit of trivia came out I never knew before; After his military service, Martin entered the Guildhall School of Music and Drama in London and he studied oboe briefly with Jane & Peter Asher's mother who was on the faculty! She is still alive and she joined Martin to recall that moment briefly in the film. She looked to be about 100 years old or so!
This DVD is very well done and a nice tribute to the guy who is most certainly the true "Fifth" Beatle. His son Giles spends a lot of time in the film joining his father to help him recall much of his career. Certainly a must for true Beatlefans. Highly recommend it.
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Post by OldFred on Sept 16, 2012 22:33:21 GMT -5
Got the Bluray and it's wonderful, a nice overview of Martin's amazing career. Definitely a must have.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Sept 17, 2012 12:49:49 GMT -5
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Sept 17, 2012 19:25:30 GMT -5
When George Martin, as you pointed out in your review, says he was not welcome to produce Let It Be because John wise- cracked to him that The Beatles didn't want any of his "crap" on the album, it is indeed very clear George has never gotten over that remark. After all the work that George had put into the Beatles recordings up through The White Album, and especially all the time he spent on John's songs trying to make them sound exactly as John desired, like "Tomorrow Never Knows", and "Mr. Kite" to site two major examples. To have a comment like that thrown into your face must have been devastating. I'm surprised George ever spoke to John again, much less agreed to produce Abbey Road. And in the 70's when John told George if he had had the chance to do all the Beatles songs over again, he'd re-do everything, to which an incredulous George again was insulted. Well, it is just amazing John ever had a friend in the world given how he treated people. Had John lived, I, for one, would have hoped at some point he would have apologized to George and taken back all those insulting comments. Without George Martin, John and his band would never have had the quality of recordings that made them, as John once said, "the biggest fu%$#&@ group in the world."
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Post by debjorgo on Sept 17, 2012 20:22:02 GMT -5
John's comment's on George makes you wonder if there was some sort of falling out between them.
I know George still had some pull/say-so with Johm during the White Album. He got John to drop the gobblety-goop between the verses on Glass Onion.
Didn't George go on holiday during the recording of the White Album? He must have felt a little useless, going from studio to studio while each Beatle was recording their songs separately. "No, no, no, George. Don't touch those knobs. I have them where they need to be."
As producer, wouldn't it have been his job to run Yoko out of the studio?
On Let it Be, George thought he should get producing credit for the album, since he produced the tracks before they were given to Phil.
George knew John and it wasn't just him that John was getting abusive with. George probably did Abbey Road because he didn't want anyone else producing the Beatles.
John would have benefited the most by using Martin for his solo albums.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 18, 2012 6:03:26 GMT -5
As producer, wouldn't it have been his job to run Yoko out of the studio? Not if he wanted to run John out right along with her, he wouldn't. Wise man.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 18, 2012 6:12:30 GMT -5
And in the 70's when John told George if he had had the chance to do all the Beatles songs over again, he'd re-do everything, to which an incredulous George again was insulted. Well, it is just amazing John ever had a friend in the world given how he treated people. Who needs "friends" who expect you to be phony and tell them only what you think they want to hear? So John is supposed to pretend that he liked the way the Beatles songs turned out and NOT say he would like to go back and re-record them (which is the mark of a true artist when he is never satisfied with his work and feels he always could have improved upon it)? Despite whatever "slights" Martin may have felt, he still spoke pretty highly of John. Well that's just it. Give the guy a break, he was murdered at age 40. John talked somewhat fondly of George Martin when he appeared on WNEW radio in 1974, and again during the Old Grey Whistle Test interview in 1975. But John did complain about the stereo versions where the music was all on one side and the vocals were on the other -- and rightly so; that was a terrible arrangement (I don't know if that was George Martin's doing, though on WNEW radio John remarked "I don't know why the hell we did that, I'll have to ask George Martin"). Lennon always respected Martin and George's ability to "translate" whatever it was they wanted. But John rightly kept it in perspective -- that Martin taught them production, but The Beatles taught him Rock N Roll. I think John did resent people thinking that Martin "made The Beatles" though. (Of course, if it had not been for George, there very well may NOT have been a Fab Four!)
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Post by OldFred on Sept 18, 2012 7:11:11 GMT -5
John is supposed to pretend that he liked the way the Beatles songs turned out and NOT say he would like to go back and re-record them (which is the mark of a true artist when he is never satisfied with his work and feels he always could have improved upon it)? Tell that to all the Star Wars fans who have to suffer through every incarnation of the original three films because George Lucas keeps fiddling and changing things around in them to suit his whims when all the fans want are the films the way they remembered them. Leave 'em alone, George, leave 'em alone!!!! Besides, didn't Paul pretty much do what John wanted with 'Let It Be-Naked', redoing the album the way he wanted it to be? Despite its weakness as the last released Beatles album, the original 'Let It Be' still has its charms and reflects its time. 'LTBN' gives us Paul's version of the album and in that regard it's an interesting piece, but it's not meant to replace the original 'LIB', it's just supposed to, in Paul's view, set the record straight.
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Post by John S. Damm on Sept 18, 2012 10:02:10 GMT -5
I want to get this dvd based on the enthusiasm of folks like lowbasso, OldFred and Steve. Sounds cool.
Sir George Martin is one of the very good guys in the Beatles team with almost perfectly clean hands throughout. That is one reason the Geoff Emerick book angers me because besides fawning over Paul only and basically mocking George and Ringo and rather dismissing John, he really turned on Sir George, saying he was over-rated, took credit for all the engineers' work and was only active in the studio when an audience was around. He writes all of that.
I also hope though that Sir George relates in this documentary the grief Paul also gave him. The Sounes book Fab relates the incident during the White Album when George made a suggestion to Paul on a bit Paul just sang and Paul crossly stated, "Well why don't you come down and f_ck_ng sing it yourself then!" That is as hurtful as John saying he didn't want Martin's studio trickery on LIB.
Sounes also says it was George Martin who referred Paul to work with another producer ending up with Hugh Padgham for Press To Play because Sir George needed a huge break from the always demanding Paul as they had worked back to back on Tug Of War and Pipes Of Peace. Paul had respect for and worked best with George Martin of any producer ever but it was never a walk in the park for even old George. I hope George Martin tells us that too since he is apparently venting on dead John!
Still, I regard George Martin as a god-like figure who was perfect for The Beatles if not John and George as they went solo. I think that Double Fantasy era John could have worked very well with George Martin but in 1970 John and George Harrison needed a break from Martin and it is undeniable that Phil Spector did a hell of a job on early John and George solo material acknowledging that George should have rethought such heavy Wall of Sound for ATMP, a mistake John never made keeping Phil more under-wraps. But George H. loved that Wall of Sound from the early 1960's hit singles from Spector's girl groups and that's the sound he wanted in 1970 for ATMP.
I will get this dvd though as George Martin is a real gem.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Sept 18, 2012 10:51:45 GMT -5
Tell that to all the Star Wars fans who have to suffer through every incarnation of the original three films because George Lucas keeps fiddling and changing things around in them to suit his whims when all the fans want are the films the way they remembered them. Leave 'em alone, George, leave 'em alone!!!! I agree with you entirely about George Lucas and his tampering with classics. But the difference is, John Lennon only said "he'd like to"; he did not actually go ahead and DO IT. Had Lennon actually gone and physically altered the songs, THEN you would hear me rave on. (All I meant was that a true artist is never completely satisfied).
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Sept 18, 2012 12:58:28 GMT -5
And in the 70's when John told George if he had had the chance to do all the Beatles songs over again, he'd re-do everything, to which an incredulous George again was insulted. Well, it is just amazing John ever had a friend in the world given how he treated people. Who needs "friends" who expect you to be phony and tell them only what you think they want to hear? So John is supposed to pretend that he liked the way the Beatles songs turned out and NOT say he would like to go back and re-record them (which is the mark of a true artist when he is never satisfied with his work and feels he always could have improved upon it)? Despite whatever "slights" Martin may have felt, he still spoke pretty highly of John. Well that's just it. Give the guy a break, he was murdered at age 40. John talked somewhat fondly of George Martin when he appeared on WNEW radio in 1974, and again during the Old Grey Whistle Test interview in 1975. But John did complain about the stereo versions where the music was all on one side and the vocals were on the other -- and rightly so; that was a terrible arrangement (I don't know if that was George Martin's doing, though on WNEW radio John remarked "I don't know why the hell we did that, I'll have to ask George Martin"). Lennon always respected Martin and George's ability to "translate" whatever it was they wanted. But John rightly kept it in perspective -- that Martin taught them production, but The Beatles taught him Rock N Roll. I think John did resent people thinking that Martin "made The Beatles" though. (Of course, if it had not been for George, there very well may NOT have been a Fab Four!) I think it is clear George Martin has always admired John for his immense talent as a songwriter and performer, but like everyone else who came in contact with John during his lifetime, the baggage John carried around with him and what you had to listen to from him when working with him really challenged those, like George Martin, to just "let it go in one ear and out the other." The new DVD really is a great addition to any Beatlefan's collection.
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Post by debjorgo on Sept 18, 2012 17:52:04 GMT -5
John was talking about re-recording the songs not altering the original recordings, wasn't he? Once you put the painting in the frame, your done. You can paint the painting again but why not paint something new.
Paul actually did re-record some of his classics for Broadstreet. It worked alright as scenes in the movie but I didn't have any use for the actual tracks. And that was him working with Martin again.
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Post by vectisfabber on Sept 19, 2012 5:27:03 GMT -5
I think the revisitations are always, at the very least, interesting exercises, and sometimes they produce something which, if not better than, at least enhances the original. I loved the Broad Street Long And Winding Road - my second favourite version after Anthology 3/LIB movie - and I liked George's live Piggies with the extra verse.
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andyb
Very Clean
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Post by andyb on Sept 19, 2012 6:32:34 GMT -5
Are there any extras on the DVD?
I watched and recorded it on TV when it was on over here. I think I archived it onto DVD before my sky box broke.
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Post by OldFred on Sept 19, 2012 8:22:52 GMT -5
There are about 52 minutes of additional material including extended interviews on the disc.
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Post by acebackwords on Sept 19, 2012 16:06:50 GMT -5
[When George Martin, as you pointed out in your review, says he was not welcome to produce Let It Be because John wise- cracked to him that The Beatles didn't want any of his "crap" on the album, it is indeed very clear George has never gotten over that remark. After all the work that George had put into the Beatles recordings up through The White Album, and especially all the time he spent on John's songs trying to make them sound exactly as John desired, like "Tomorrow Never Knows", and "Mr. Kite" to site two major examples. To have a comment like that thrown into your face must have been devastating. I'm surprised George ever spoke to John again, much less agreed to produce Abbey Road.; To be fair, John, who was royally pissed during most of the White Album sessions, was equally critical of the Beatles own music on Sgt Pepper which he also referred to as "crap." I think that was just the genius of Lennon as an artist. He had to destroy the approach they had taken in the past in order to come up with a fresh new approach. One of the main reasons why the Beatles rarely repeated themselves and continued to grow and develop throughout their career. Lennon, by the way, had to eat crow after the Let It Be debacle. Frequently during the White Album sessions, Lennon would express his frustration with Martin and the Abbey Road studio facilities with comments like: "We'll finally be able to do what we want when Magic Alex puts together his state-of-the-art 72-track studio." Martin had to bite his tongue because, unlike John, he was well aware of what a fraud Alex was. And it must have been satisfying to have John come crawling back to him Though its certainly true that John was a man that rarely appreciated all the sacrifices that other people made for him. Like royalty he just figured it was his due. He was also a man who rarely apologized. But he did apologize to Martin after Martin confronted him about his searing comments in the Lennon Remembers interview, saying something like "I was just out of my head on drugs and raving." I always liked Martin's description of John: "John was a very strange person. He changed an awful lot over the years."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 4:09:09 GMT -5
I always liked Martin's description of John: "John was a very strange person. He changed an awful lot over the years." John did change over the journey, more than the other 3 put together.... and Yes, he was a strange unit.... Not to say i wasn't a fan.. i was....
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Post by acebackwords on Sept 22, 2012 13:51:45 GMT -5
John was talking about re-recording the songs not altering the original recordings, wasn't he? . No. He talked about wanting to remix all the songs so that people could finally hear how good they were.
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Post by debjorgo on Sept 22, 2012 15:04:30 GMT -5
John was talking about re-recording the songs not altering the original recordings, wasn't he? . No. He talked about wanting to remix all the songs so that people could finally hear how good they were. I thought John's idea of mixing was to put all the dials in the middle, then you were done. Didn't they have to undo any mixing he ever did on his solo records. Of course, most of his solo recordings sounded terrible. I don't know though. Maybe they should have left his mixes alone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 3:59:36 GMT -5
Purchased a copy of the Produced by George Martin dvd today....
Retailers love to muck people around but it all worked out in the end.
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andyb
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Post by andyb on Sept 24, 2012 10:00:57 GMT -5
John was talking about re-recording the songs not altering the original recordings, wasn't he? . No. He talked about wanting to remix all the songs so that people could finally hear how good they were. Are you sure? I'm sure the quote I remember was to re-record rather than remix.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Sept 24, 2012 10:38:42 GMT -5
No. He talked about wanting to remix all the songs so that people could finally hear how good they were. Are you sure? I'm sure the quote I remember was to re-record rather than remix. That's how I remember it as well.
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Post by acebackwords on Sept 24, 2012 13:48:27 GMT -5
No. He talked about wanting to remix all the songs so that people could finally hear how good they were. Are you sure? I'm sure the quote I remember was to re-record rather than remix. I've heard John say both, that he wanted to remix and re-record. Even something like "Strawberry Fields" -- arguably one of his most popular songs. He told one of the studio musicians during the Double Fantasy sessions that he wanted to re-record it because he regretted the "psychedelic" approach he took at the time.
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andyb
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Post by andyb on Sept 25, 2012 5:40:57 GMT -5
I remember John saying something along the lines of he wished he could remix Daytripper because he thought it was a heavy record and he could make it even heavier but I'm sure all the quotes I've seen were about re-recording.
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Post by vectisfabber on Sept 25, 2012 9:00:11 GMT -5
Me too. I don't ever recall anything about remixing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 9:01:40 GMT -5
Definitely should have re done Strawberry Fields...without the edit
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Sept 25, 2012 11:08:25 GMT -5
Definitely should have re done Strawberry Fields...without the edit Thanks "John"....
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Post by acebackwords on Sept 25, 2012 13:00:15 GMT -5
Me too. I don't ever recall anything about remixing. Oh come on. I've read many quotes from John where he talks about wanting to remix Beatles tracks. For one thing, there's the famous quotes about him bitching about how Martin mixed the stereo tracks with the vocals on one side and the instruments on another. P.S. I love the work Martin did with America. It makes for a very interesting counterpoint to the stuff he did with the Beatles, sort of showing what he added to the soup and how he operated, how he brought out the best elements of a song.
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