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Post by sayne on May 28, 2013 21:45:03 GMT -5
Here's a great live version of For You Blue taken from George's 1974 stop in Fort Worth. Robben Ford sizzles and Willie Weeks really lays down the groove. The song really has a blues feel that was never there for any other Beatle/George versions, I think. link
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Post by John S. Damm on May 29, 2013 21:27:35 GMT -5
Here's a great live version of For You Blue taken from George's 1974 stop in Fort Worth. Robben Ford sizzles and Willie Weeks really lays down the groove. The song really has a blues feel that was never there for any other Beatle/George versions, I think. linkI am rereading Keith Badman's diary-style book The Beatles Solo Years and at a press conference at the start of the 1991 Japan tour that egomaniac Eric Clapton said that tour would be good for George because he never played live with a good band before. Clapton said The Beatles only played before 10 year olds and his[Clapton's] band was red hot and all George had to do was come out and strum an acoustic guitar and Eric and his band would do all the work! That is what the asshole said! I don't care for Clapton's complete dismissal of The Beatles as a live act and he does forget that George's 1974 touring band was awesome, it was poor George who was hoarse! If George had his voice that might have been a huge game-changer with that tour then fondly remembered and perhaps George would have toured more in later years. He didn't have a voice, he got panned and he soured on the whole thing. Second, I don't like the implication fom sludgehand that George was such a live novice that all he should do was come out and use a guitar as a prop. George might not have blown people away on loud screaching guitar but he was quite competent thank you. A quote from George before the tour said that this was a test tour for future tours. If he didn't have fun he would do no more, if he had fun then maybe he would hit the road and start a new phase of his career! Well, we know the answer, he never toured again. Probably Clapton was insufferable. This audio file from 1974 shows George had played with good bands before.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on May 30, 2013 5:49:31 GMT -5
I am rereading Keith Badman's diary-style book The Beatles Solo Years and at a press conference at the start of the 1991 Japan tour that egomaniac Eric Clapton said that tour would be good for George because he never played live with a good band before. Clapton said The Beatles only played before 10 year olds and his[Clapton's] band was red hot and all George had to do was come out and strum an acoustic guitar and Eric and his band would do all the work! That is what the asshole said! I don't care for Clapton's complete dismissal of The Beatles as a live act and he does forget that George's 1974 touring band was awesome, it was poor George who was hoarse! If George had his voice that might have been a huge game-changer with that tour then fondly remembered and perhaps George would have toured more in later years. He didn't have a voice, he got panned and he soured on the whole thing. Second, I don't like the implication fom sludgehand that George was such a live novice that all he should do was come out and use a guitar as a prop. George might not have blown people away on loud screaching guitar but he was quite competent thank you. A quote from George before the tour said that this was a test tour for future tours. If he didn't have fun he would do no more, if he had fun then maybe he would hit the road and start a new phase of his career! Well, we know the answer, he never toured again. Probably Clapton was insufferable. This audio file from 1974 shows George had played with good bands before. "Sludgehand"..."Asshole".... "Egomaniac"... what happened to "love", JSD? I like Eric Clapton. So did George. I doubt very much George felt his buddy was "insufferable". I also thank Clapton for lighting a fire under timid George much of the time and giving him the nudge he required to play live concerts and shows here and there. Eric had to hold George's trembling hand most of the time, but at least we've got some Harrison performances to enjoy as a result. re: The 1974 Tour -- to me, not only is George's voice shot to hell, I don't much care for the arrangement of most songs. By the way, I completely understand what Eric meant about "The Beatles only playing for young girls". Let's face it, that was largely true during all of Beatlemania, at least... and nobody really was able to hear the music, nor did they really care about the music. It was a whole new ball game when John played Toronto and George did Bangla Desh. All the Beatles themselves have basically said as much about their concerts.
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Post by mikev on May 30, 2013 7:42:33 GMT -5
Here's a great live version of For You Blue taken from George's 1974 stop in Fort Worth. Robben Ford sizzles and Willie Weeks really lays down the groove. The song really has a blues feel that was never there for any other Beatle/George versions, I think. linkI am rereading Keith Badman's diary-style book The Beatles Solo Years and at a press conference at the start of the 1991 Japan tour that egomaniac Eric Clapton said that tour would be good for George because he never played live with a good band before. Clapton said The Beatles only played before 10 year olds and his[Clapton's] band was red hot and all George had to do was come out and strum an acoustic guitar and Eric and his band would do all the work! That is what the asshole said! I don't care for Clapton's complete dismissal of The Beatles as a live act and he does forget that George's 1974 touring band was awesome, it was poor George who was hoarse! If George had his voice that might have been a huge game-changer with that tour then fondly remembered and perhaps George would have toured more in later years. He didn't have a voice, he got panned and he soured on the whole thing. Second, I don't like the implication fom sludgehand that George was such a live novice that all he should do was come out and use a guitar as a prop. George might not have blown people away on loud screaching guitar but he was quite competent thank you. A quote from George before the tour said that this was a test tour for future tours. If he didn't have fun he would do no more, if he had fun then maybe he would hit the road and start a new phase of his career! Well, we know the answer, he never toured again. Probably Clapton was insufferable. This audio file from 1974 shows George had played with good bands before. That is one place where Paul deserves his props- he still plays his bass, and for the most part the original arrangements. I loved watching him play the bass on WALHFMF, when he did it live with Ringo. George was content strumming an acoustic-though he DID play lead in the 1992 London concert- at least on Something- the one clip I saw.
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Post by John S. Damm on May 30, 2013 7:53:24 GMT -5
In the Dark Horse DVD there are a few songs from Japan and at least on some(maybe all it has been awhile) George is playing electric guitar and is very, very good.
JoeK, first I am not surprised that you denigrate George Harrison's live musical skills and second, you of all people know why my badblood with Sludgehand: Claptrap put all of his effort and passion in stealing Patti away from her true love, George, only to treat her as a doormat once he "got" her.
Patti doesn't appreciate my nobility(or even know about it) but I am honor-bound to avenge her for Clapton's mistreatment of her.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on May 30, 2013 9:40:56 GMT -5
In the Dark Horse DVD there are a few songs from Japan and at least on some(maybe all it has been awhile) George is playing electric guitar and is very, very good. He's okay... especially on "Cheer Down" (even though he looks timid and afraid)... I have the DARK HORSE compilation and I do enjoy seeing those Japan snippets (thanks to Eric convincing George to go). This is unrelated, but Olivia and Dhani really need to move their butts in releasing some sort of "complete" Japan Tour DVD, and a lot of other stuff. Where did I do that in my other post? I just said Eric was right in saying that The Beatles with George did basically play to young girls. Since you brought up George's live skills, no I don't think he is a very good lead guitarist. I think Paul was more proficient, personally; George seemed to struggle with solos, and it's obvious in live performances as well as on Beatles studio session outtakes. Believe it or not, although the thought did cross my mind about Eric stealing Patti, for some reason I had totally forgotten your obsession with pretty ol' Choppers. George seemed to be able to love and respect Clapton anyway aside from that major occurrence, and after all it's George's business and he knew Eric better -- why does it bug you so much? And although you may not approve of the Eric/Patti thing, it's to bad you cannot separate Eric's music and guitar playing, etc, from that Patti incident. I just don't see hating everything about someone and his work, just because of something else.
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Post by John S. Damm on May 30, 2013 11:20:48 GMT -5
He's okay... especially on "Cheer Down" (even though he looks timid and afraid)... I have the DARK HORSE compilation and I do enjoy seeing those Japan snippets (thanks to Eric convincing George to go). This is unrelated, but Olivia and Dhani really need to move their butts in releasing some sort of "complete" Japan Tour DVD, and a lot of other stuff. Yes, "Cheer Down" was the one that really came to mind. I agree about Olivia and Dhani releasing an entire concert from Japan, a bonus dvd of George's 1992 RAH concert and give us a dvd of the best from the 1974 Tour! I hope fabfour doesn't see this. I thought the very way you did Joe until I read the Simon Leng book that was the most influential Beatles book I read since "Beatles Forever" way back in 1977. In all honesty, I already disliked or was uninterested in most of Clapton's work. Sure, I like some of his big songs but most of his 1970's on solo stuff was that treadmill stuff our beloved Beatles get slammed for in their solo years. "Forever Man" anyone? To me, Sludgehand's greatest moment was The Concert For George but that should come as no surprise. Damn-it Joe, Pattie's large, rabbit like teeth are so endearing to me! Still, that is a funny nickname you have for her.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on May 30, 2013 12:43:16 GMT -5
>>>I don't think he is a very good lead guitarist. I think Paul was more proficient, personally; George seemed to struggle with solos, and it's obvious in live performances as well as on Beatles studio session outtakes.<<<< I hope fabfour doesn't see this. I thought the very way you did Joe until I read the Simon Leng book that was the most influential Beatles book I read since "Beatles Forever" way back in 1977. OK, but I'm not sure Simon Leng (or anyone) could make my ears interpret George's seemingly struggling and unsure, twangy guitar much differently in live performances. Now, having said this, I often DO enjoy MOST of George's guitar on both Beatles and solo George recordings; I just think he didn't come by his playing very easily or simply. Well, I don't know anything other than Clapton's popular hits, which I like. But in all fairness, since we're comparing Clapton and Harrison here, one can easily say that there's fodder amongst George's solo catalogue too (I'm actually listening to THE FAB 4 FREE 4 ALL's bashing of EXTRA TEXTURE while I type this!)
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Post by sayne on May 30, 2013 20:15:08 GMT -5
. . . I agree about Olivia and Dhani releasing an entire concert from Japan, a bonus dvd of George's 1992 RAH concert and give us a dvd of the best from the 1974 Tour! . . . Does anyone know if any Clapton songs were performed? If so , which?
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Post by mikev on May 30, 2013 21:14:25 GMT -5
. . . I agree about Olivia and Dhani releasing an entire concert from Japan, a bonus dvd of George's 1992 RAH concert and give us a dvd of the best from the 1974 Tour! . . . Does anyone know if any Clapton songs were performed? If so , which? Yes...I believe he did a set, but George was the headline. I only know that because I saw a boot of it once in a CD store.
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Post by John S. Damm on May 31, 2013 1:07:59 GMT -5
. . . I agree about Olivia and Dhani releasing an entire concert from Japan, a bonus dvd of George's 1992 RAH concert and give us a dvd of the best from the 1974 Tour! . . . Does anyone know if any Clapton songs were performed? If so , which? Yes but it was a limited set. Tomorrow I'll pull Badman out as he lists Clapton's songs and one was "Badge" which George co-wrote. At the 1992 or 1993 Chicago Beatlefest, the guest panel of Beatles experts were asked by us in the crowd why George didn't bring the tour to the U.S. as RS had reported he would. That was a huge disappointment with us in that room. The panel had all heard of a professional falling out between Clapton and George and one guy, don't recall his name, was saying even though they are friends they are still professionally competitive and Clapton was getting louder cheers from the audience each night than George. Who knows but those were "experts" who made their living writing about the Beatles and the discussion was contemporaneous to the event. But Clapton did perform songs in the middle of the show but no more than five to eight.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on May 31, 2013 5:20:22 GMT -5
At the 1992 or 1993 Chicago Beatlefest, the guest panel of Beatles experts were asked by us in the crowd why George didn't bring the tour to the U.S. as RS had reported he would. That was a huge disappointment with us in that room. The panel had all heard of a professional falling out between Clapton and George and one guy, don't recall his name, was saying even though they are friends they are still professionally competitive and Clapton was getting louder cheers from the audience each night than George. Who knows but those were "experts" who made their living writing about the Beatles and the discussion was contemporaneous to the event. But Clapton did perform songs in the middle of the show but no more than five to eight. I don't believe for a second that Clapton drew more cheers than George, especially considering that it was so rare for George to tour and he had not been to Japan since 1966. And George was once a BEATLE for crying out loud! If you watch a lot of the pre-tour press conferences and interviews in 1991, the media and fans are obviously more thrilled about George. It's almost as if Eric Clapton was George's side man. There is also absolutely no indication from either Eric or George themselves that there was any kind of "falling out" between them. Personally, I just don't believe that George was ever comfortable in touring, especially after the 1974 fiasco. That's why he did Japan -- it was an easy way to dip his toe into the waters, with a more laid back venue and only 10 shows.
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Post by John S. Damm on May 31, 2013 7:55:51 GMT -5
I am simply reporting on what was discussed by a panel of Beatle experts in 1992 or 1993, men who have had books published on the Beatles, develop television or film projects on them or otherwise devote much more time to them then even we do as they derive income off of their "hobby." And men who have more inside sources than any of us do with the exception of Steve.
Clearly something soured George on the experience because he was quoted in Badman as saying Japan was clearly a test run for more touring. The Japanese tour went off smoothly musically meaning no problems like with the 1974 tour where George had no voice and where there was critical and fan resentment when George played just a few Beatles songs and changed the lyrics to the point of ruining the songs for the anal retentive fans("If something's in the way, we move it" or "In my life, I love god more") .
You say George looks nervous but I don't see it from the videos of Japan. Where George looked really nervous and did seem rusty was the Prince's Trust much earlier in 1987 or whenever but even then I greatly enjoy WMGGW and HCTS from that performance. George was always very professional, nervous or not.
Why is it hard to believe Clapton was getting more cheers. He was much more active musically than George and that was his selling point to George: he and his band were road seasoned so George could lean on them. George was as active in 1987 through 1991 as he would ever be again but that still wasn't as active as Eric Clapton, Bob Dylan or many of his other contemporaries.
Wally Podrazik was one of the panel of experts and while I don't recall if he was the one talking most on George's Japanese Tour, he wasn't disputing the account that by the end of the Japan tour there was a chill in the air between George and Eric. We do know for a fact the tour ended right there in Japan with no continuation as George had earlier discussed. Maybe George and Eric realized it wasn't worth losing their friendship to continue touring.
I will review Badman to see what he reports as he has more on this tour than any book I can think of and I will look at Leng's book again as I believe there is discussion on the tour there.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on May 31, 2013 8:12:59 GMT -5
I am simply reporting on what was discussed by a panel of Beatle experts in 1992 or 1993, men who have had books published on the Beatles, develop television or film projects on them or otherwise devote much more time to them then even we do as they derive income off of their "hobby." And men who have more inside sources than any of us do with the exception of Steve. I have heard Beatle authors make errors before. Either way, this is pure "speculation" and nothing more. Well, I wouldn't have liked hearing George desecrate Beatles songs, especially during this period when he was clearly trying to distance himself from them. He's got nobody to blame but himself for pissing Beatles fans off there. Yes, the Japan tour was a test run for George and it was made clear that Eric Clapton was the one who convinced George that Japan would be an easy way to re-enter the touring scene, so you should thank Eric otherwise we may never had seen george do concerts again, Ever. Hell, George hadn't even toured when he was on Cloud Nine and had the very popular Wilburys success under his belt. And it was never, ever decided "for certain" that these Japanese gigs were going to lead into a full-blown US tour, not ever. There was only hope. If George really wanted to tour the US after that, he didn't need Clapton do to it. George was always nervous and without confidence. I have the complete 1992 concert of the Royal Albert Hall Show, and at one point he literally tells the audience something like: "Wow, thank you - I didn't think you like me", or something! I loved him on the Prince's Trust! GREAT! Yeah, he was blatantly nervous at the Prince's Trust, and publically admitted it in many TV interviews after that which I've seen. But who said I didn't enjoy his performances? I liked them too. Where am I saying anything about his professionalism? I recall eagerly watching George's public return with Prince's Trust on HBO, and I felt sorry he seemed so scared, but I perfectly understood his case of nerves there. It had been a long time, and CLOUD NINE had not even been released yet. How many bootlegs of the 1991 tours have you seen? I have seen my share, and Eric does not seem to get more cheers. Do you have many hours culled from the 1991 tour from Japanese Television? I do ... and George is clearly the point of excitement. First time touring Japan since the Beatles, first time touring since 1974. Japanese fans do not see George Harrison, Former Beatle every day. That's just the point -- if anything, Clapton was old hat... Harrison was a real "event". From the very beginning within the Japan TV Show interviews and press conferences before the shows even began, George and Eric make it clear that it's a tiny tour with a small amount of concert dates. Maybe the "Esteemed Beatles Authors" don't have the 1991 video footage and reports.
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Post by John S. Damm on May 31, 2013 11:06:47 GMT -5
I have a bootleg VHS tape of almost an entire Japanese show (and the much better RAH concert the next year but that was a different set-up really with some different players) and the Japanese crowd goes wild every single time Clapton played a note on his guitar! Every Eric solo brings roars that about drown out the song. That's my evidence besides what the panel said.
We are both speculating as you have no better proof of the absence of some hard feelings. Like every other American fan on this Board, I was disappointed that George didn't bring the tour to the U.S. in 1992 so at Beatlefest that was about the first question we had of the expert panel. I have summarized their response. I agree the issue is the weight to be given the evidence and I'd give the panel's information more creedence than that of George's sister Louise Harrison(as just an example, I know you didn't cite her) for events in George's life post-1964! I thank Clapton for drawing George out on our but did Eric's adult competition with George get the best of Eric so that he annoyed or pissed off George?
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Post by Joe Karlosi on May 31, 2013 11:17:46 GMT -5
I have a bootleg VHS tape of almost an entire Japanese show (and the much better RAH concert the next year but that was a different set-up really with some different players) and the Japanese crowd goes wild every single time Clapton played a note on his guitar! Every Eric solo brings roars that about drown out the song. That's my evidence besides what the panel said. Not everything's like a court case. Not amazing either the audience cheering the solos, really, when Eric Clapton plays a great lead guitar. So based on this, you (and/or the panel) figure George got pissed and jealous and said "hmmph! Screw you, Eric!" --? Why do view everything in as so scandalous and radical, and ripe for a juicy case? Silly, IMO. First, oh let's stop with the "expert panel" thing. They may have written some books on The Beatles, but in 1992 I don't think they all had hard evidence about anything regarding George not touring the US! Any "Beatle Expert" would be able to basically surmise that George Harrison just did not enjoy touring and was always a little afraid of it, especially after what happened to him in 1974. It's no more complicated than that. You also are ignoring what I have said about all the Japanese TV reports and press conferences and interviews that occurred before and during the shows of December 1991... NOBODY said for certain that George was going to tour the US, or anywhere else! You act as though this was a "done deal" which "got squashed due to ill feelings"... there was no more any concrete plans for George to do anything else after Japan than there was in 1980 for John and Yoko to definitely tour for sure. What "evidence"? George agreed to test the waters by playing several shows away in Japan. Maybe he thought about possibly touring the US after that, but nothing was decided and nothing was set in stone -- and he did not need Eric Clapton or Eric's band in order to do a George Harrison Tour, if he did get annoyed with Clapton. What about the RAH show in 1992? George was just George, didn't care for live performing much anymore. *By the way - you began this discussion by saying that ROLLING STONE had said George would tour the US... there's the problem right there. More bull and unsubstantiated, printed goss-ip. It was never happening.
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Post by sayne on May 31, 2013 22:04:17 GMT -5
. . . What about the RAH show in 1992? George was just George, didn't care for live performing much anymore. Stop the presses, I actually agree with Joe. I don't think Clapton had anything to do with George not touring, even if they had a falling out. The RAH show (didn't George use some of the same musicians?) and George playing with Deep Purple indicate he was okay with playing in front of an audience. I think he would have done one-offs with the Wilbury's. I think George just was not into the grind of a tour. Here's a theory. I think I read somewhere that George had a tryst whilst in Japan. Maybe he had to make a choice, tour and risk losing his family due to his inability to fight temptation or stay home and do selected shows.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jun 1, 2013 0:07:54 GMT -5
Here's a theory. I think I read somewhere that George had a tryst whilst in Japan. Maybe he had to make a choice, tour and risk losing his family due to his inability to fight temptation or stay home and do selected shows. Yeah, George was power-driving Lory Del Santo, the mother of Clapton's son Conor who died. I assert that's where the problems started. With Clapton, there is no, "Okay George I stole Pattie so it is only fair that you steal one of my old ladies." No way, Sludgehand was way too competitive. As Pattie wrote in her book, George and Eric had a literal guitar battle over Pattie. www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-474759/How-Eric-Claptons-ex-got-revenge--little-help-George-Harrison.htmlGeorge and Lory the morning after
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Post by Panther on Jun 4, 2013 19:23:31 GMT -5
Clapton writes extensively about Lory Del Santo is his autobiography. Another of his earlier model-girlfriends (you can tell he goes for the intellectual types) was stolen by Mick Jagger, and Clapton said this totally devastated him and drove a deep wedge between he and Jagger for many years. He writes nothing about George having a fling with Lory in his book, so this is the first I've heard of it. Wouldn't surprise me, though...
On the Clapton-gets-louder-cheers-than-George point: That strikes me as quite possible. Eric Clapton is enormously huge in Japan (so is Jeff Beck). As a random example, my fiancee, who knows zilch about classic pop/rock and was born in 1982, knows exactly who Eric Clapton is but had a vague idea of who The Beatles were, and certainly couldn't identify George Harrison.
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