|
Post by sayne on Nov 13, 2013 23:34:19 GMT -5
...What I'm saying is, the problem with PC is that only certain people then get to be treated with special respect . . . I think many of us could come up with some pretty good terms to describe you that over a period of time and repeated by everyone would get you to tell people to lay off. We all have buttons. Sometimes, those buttons are collectively shared.
|
|
|
Post by debjorgo on Nov 13, 2013 23:36:21 GMT -5
And, for me, "black" is on par with calling a Caucasian-American "white". It's only a quick way of more easily signifying which person(s) you are referring to ("the thin guy, the heavy guy", "the short guy, the tall guy" .... "the black guy, the white guy"). I bet that for most people, perhaps even you, if there were a really tall white guy across the street, people would say "Look at the tall guy," while if there was a very tall African-American guy, people would say, "Look at that tall black guy," or "Look at the black guy! Jeez, he's tall." Point? In most cases, the white person would not be identified as such. I guess you're used to being in a white neighborhood. In a black neighborhood, you'd say look at that guy, the white guy, him. You'd have to find something else unique to use to single out the black dude.
|
|
|
Post by debjorgo on Nov 13, 2013 23:42:19 GMT -5
. . . (I even heard a black political woman on the radio tell Imus that he did not have to trip all over himself calling her "Af-ri-can-A-mer-I-can".. she put him at ease and told him: "Please, that is such a mouthful to have to say ... I am black, Imus".) Maybe he should not have even used color as the descriptor and called her a "bitch" or "ho" instead. If she takes offense to that, then she's just being overly sensitive, because when most people think of a bitch or a ho, I bet most people, thanks to movies, rap songs, and comedy routines, would picture an African-American woman. And, she's probably a bitch and a ho to some guy out there anyway. No man, Eminem is singing about white bitches. Your signals really got crossed on that one.
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Nov 14, 2013 1:50:50 GMT -5
I bet that for most people, perhaps even you, if there were a really tall white guy across the street, people would say "Look at the tall guy," while if there was a very tall African-American guy, people would say, "Look at that tall black guy," or "Look at the black guy! Jeez, he's tall." Point? In most cases, the white person would not be identified as such. I guess you're used to being in a white neighborhood. In a black neighborhood, you'd say look at that guy, the white guy, him. You'd have to find something else unique to use to single out the black dude. Actually, I live in a predominately African-American neighborhood and up to the age of 10, I lived in an African- American and Hispanic neighborhood. I'm actually referring to a generic mixed part of Anytown, USA. Or, maybe a place that more than likely will have a mix of ethnicities that matches the demographics of the United States, like a baseball game or Disneyland.
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Nov 14, 2013 2:23:05 GMT -5
Maybe he should not have even used color as the descriptor and called her a "bitch" or "ho" instead. If she takes offense to that, then she's just being overly sensitive, because when most people think of a bitch or a ho, I bet most people, thanks to movies, rap songs, and comedy routines, would picture an African-American woman. And, she's probably a bitch and a ho to some guy out there anyway. No man, Eminem is singing about white bitches. Your signals really got crossed on that one. That's why I said "most people." But, if you're talking about rap culture, most of the money is made off of white suburban white kids who think they're cool and tough by "acting" street. George Carlin, about 40 years ago had a joke about the phenomenon of taking 5 white Irish guys and put them with 5 black guys and eventually the 5 white Irish guys would start talking jive (Whachoo talkin' 'bout, Willis), but the black guys would never say "Oh, Golly, we won the big game." Eminem is just a guy who has adopted a persona of the street. There's also a difference between calling a woman a bitch because one is angry vs using bitch in normal every day speech instead of "girl," "girlfriend," "that woman," and so on.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 14, 2013 6:54:55 GMT -5
George Carlin, about 40 years ago had a joke about the phenomenon of taking 5 white Irish guys and put them with 5 black guys and eventually the 5 white Irish guys would start talking jive (Whachoo talkin' 'bout, Willis), but the black guys would never say "Oh, Golly, we won the big game." As a white person I don't think I've ever used the word "golly" in my life. I am insulted! George Carlin has offended all whites! (Interesting to wake up and hear about George Carlin, as only last night I was watching John and Yoko co-hosting The Mike Douglas Show in 1972 and Carlin was the guest). Wow, there really are a lot of notes to take on this PC stuff. Meanwhile, I know that there are actually some women who are proud to say "I'm a bitch" when referring to themselves. (I worked at a Toys'R' Us store when I was younger and the female supervisor actually wore a chain that had "BITCH" in script letters, around her neck). I guess we have to interview people before we speak to them, just to be sure they don't take offense to anything we might say.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 14, 2013 6:59:15 GMT -5
With the elephant, there was a legit cover story, pardon the pun. "The elephant in the room" is a saying you hear about something staring everyone in the face but nobody is mentioning it. Elephants are the mascots for Republicans. It's like Big Ten Inch. You say something but you have an out. It's a double entan..., a double enton..., it has two meanings. I completely understand the two meanings and how it was utilized to 'have an out'.. All the same, there are certain groups of people who are protected against the same routine (like with my Black Sheep double meaning example). Show a picture of a black man on TIME and dare to write "He is the Black Sheep of the family", and you're going to get crucified.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 14, 2013 7:04:48 GMT -5
calling an overweight person an elephant is politically incorrect,and that's what they did. Where did you hear that calling an overweight person an elephant is politically incorrect? If you watch any TV sitcom, there are fat jokes allowed all the time, everywhere. As far as I know it's not yet earth-shatteringly forbidden to say "fatso", "blimp", etc, like it is with other politically incorrect labels.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 14, 2013 7:24:19 GMT -5
It's not impossible, and worth a little effort. are you a member of an ethnic group, and if so, aren't their expressions that have been used that you would prefer not be used? hey Joe, you're the one that insists posters not ignore your questions. I was hoping you'd respond to this one, in hopes of getting to a meeting of the minds. I missed the question yesterday. (Typing in the morning before getting ready to leave for work). Of course I have no problem responding. I think it's insane running around and being like walking on eggshells, having to mind every word you utter just in case someone with a thin skin who needs therapy gets hurt. (Remember the SEINFLED episode where Jerry innocently asks a mailman where a Chinese restaurant is, and the man gets all angry when he turns around and we see he is actually Asian? What was Jerry supposed to do, devise all sorts of strategic sentences so as not to offend the man, even though he had no idea? ). But I do make some effort in my life to play the PC game, and some examples of this are that I always use the word "Asian" when referring to a person who might be Chinese, Japanese and I don't know their ethnicity. I do this because I don't want to accidentally offend an Asian person. Likewise, when I once made a video and was discussing the 1972 John Lennon song, I referred to it as "Woman Is The N-Word Of The World"... (though I didn't feel comfortable changing it only because I really see nothing wrong using such words in "quotes" only if you're quoting someone else and not actually intending the word yourself). I must confess (yes, I am using the word "confess") that around this time of year I find myself saying "HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!" to strangers, instead of "Merry Christmas!". That one PC courtesy has always made some sense to me, because after all if you don't know a person's background you don't want to say "Merry Christmas" to someone who does not celebrate Christmas, just as I wouldn't want someone saying "Happy Chanukah" to me, when I am not Jewish and do not celebrate that. (EDITED TO ADD: but on second though, if you consider Christmas not only as just a religious occasion but rather a state of mind and time to be merry and pleasant to others, then "Merry Christmas!" extends beyond the religion). As far as ethnic insults about myself -- there isn't anything that happens to me in that regard that I can put a finger on. I have been told that I look Spanish or Mexican, and I am neither. I get kind of annoyed when someone thinks I am Mexican, or when a Spanish person approaches me on the street to ask me directions in Spanish or something. I do get pissed at Christian Bashing though... which, by the way, is also perfectly accepted in this current society we're in. It's always open season to bash Catholics or Christians.... but you don't dare tweak others' religions. And that takes me right back to full circle where this whole PC business is ridiculous, and you cannot possibly account for every person. So there is the response to your question -- and thensome.
|
|
|
Post by debjorgo on Nov 14, 2013 7:26:46 GMT -5
With the elephant, there was a legit cover story, pardon the pun. "The elephant in the room" is a saying you hear about something staring everyone in the face but nobody is mentioning it. Elephants are the mascots for Republicans. It's like Big Ten Inch. You say something but you have an out. It's a double entan..., a double enton..., it has two meanings. I completely understand the two meanings and how it was utilized to 'have an out'.. All the same, there are certain groups of people who are protected against the same routine (like with my Black Sheep double meaning example). Show a picture of a black man on TIME and dare to write "He is the Black Sheep of the family", and you're going to get crucified. If he were a sheep farmer who just got out of jail, I think you'd get away with it.
|
|
|
Post by debjorgo on Nov 14, 2013 7:31:46 GMT -5
calling an overweight person an elephant is politically incorrect,and that's what they did. Where did you hear that calling an overweight person an elephant is politically incorrect? If you watch any TV sitcom, there are fat jokes allowed all the time, everywhere. As far as I know it's not yet earth-shatteringly forbidden to say "fatso", "blimp", etc, like it is with other politically incorrect labels. Do you ever watch Mike and Molly. About half the show is them making fat jokes. The other half of the show is about them bitching about people who make fat jokes. "People are so insensitive." Then they tell the fat joke that they heard.
|
|
|
Post by scousette on Nov 14, 2013 11:40:00 GMT -5
What some folks call "PC" is really civility.
|
|
|
Post by acebackwords on Nov 14, 2013 12:44:14 GMT -5
What some folks call "PC" is really civility. I'm all for civility (generally). When I'm critical about PC I'm talking about the people who claim (quite loudly) that you cant criticize Israel because you're "anti-semitic." You can't criticize Obama because you're "racist." You can't discuss an issue like black crime because that's "racist." You cant have any qualms about "transgender" kids using unisex bathrooms because you're "homophobic." You cant be for protecting our borders and lowering the numbers of immigration both legal and illegal because that's "xenophobic." You cant disagree wth any aspect of the standard liberal/progressive party line because that makes you a "nazi." Etc etc.
|
|
|
Post by scousette on Nov 14, 2013 12:53:43 GMT -5
I get you.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Nov 14, 2013 13:16:32 GMT -5
Ace, everyone beats up on Israel unfortunately! Of your examples, I have never heard or read that used from stopping the rest of the world from slamming the only true democracy in the Middle East, Israel. Israelies are even tough on themselves!
Israel is the only country with enough sense to smell a huge, filthy rat being the Islamic Republic of Iran. Nuclear deterrence kept the peace through the Cold War but Iran does not give a damn whether it starts a nuclear war someday because it is motivated by hoped for after-life consequences. Death is a reward to many in that government.
Hey, how about that John Lennon! If alive he would be a Democrat as sure as the sun rises and a far-left one at that but that should be no surprise. Like Joe or someone said, look at Yoko. She has much more money now than she did in 1980 and she may be more radical than ever!
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 15, 2013 6:57:07 GMT -5
I'm all for civility (generally). When I'm critical about PC I'm talking about the people who claim (quite loudly) that you cant criticize Israel because you're "anti-semitic." You can't criticize Obama because you're "racist." You can't discuss an issue like black crime because that's "racist." You cant have any qualms about "transgender" kids using unisex bathrooms because you're "homophobic." You cant be for protecting our borders and lowering the numbers of immigration both legal and illegal because that's "xenophobic." You cant disagree wth any aspect of the standard liberal/progressive party line because that makes you a "nazi." Etc etc. Well said, Ace. And I'd add that other people cannot say they want to stop the Pledge Of Allegiance and want Christ taken out of Christmas without being called a "Christiaphobe" (ooops -- no, wait - there is no such label for Christian Bashing .... I just made it up myself... Christian Bashing is perfectly allowed, I forgot... carry on! ) ...
|
|
|
Post by Joe Karlosi on Nov 15, 2013 7:01:17 GMT -5
Do you ever watch Mike and Molly. About half the show is them making fat jokes. The other half of the show is about them bitching about people who make fat jokes. "People are so insensitive." Then they tell the fat joke that they heard. Yes, I have seen a few episodes. I think it's really sad that people allow themselves to become so heavy and then kind of have fun with it, living completely in denial about their dangerous potential fate. That woman (Melissa McCarthy, is that her name?) is rather sad, I think, making movies like the one where she is this fat and sloppy woman who was paired with Sandra Bullock. I mean, it's good to have a sense of humor about oneself, but at the same time she should seriously think about losing weight before she winds up like a John Candy. Honestly, wouldn't she prefer to be more on the Sandra Bullock side in such a film, instead of being just the fat chick taking all the lumps?
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Nov 16, 2013 11:49:53 GMT -5
. . . Christian Bashing is perfectly allowed, I forgot... carry on! ) ... I don't know the last time a person in the United States was beat up for being Christian, but we all know about the risk of WWM (walking while Muslim). I also don't often hear much uproar about a mainstream Christian church being built in a neighborhood, unless its about a zoning issue or size issue, but boy, try to get a Muslim temple built and people's hackles rise.
|
|
|
Post by anyoneanyhow on Nov 16, 2013 23:01:58 GMT -5
. . . Christian Bashing is perfectly allowed, I forgot... carry on! ) ... I don't know the last time a person in the United States was beat up for being Christian, but we all know about the risk of WWM (walking while Muslim). I also don't often hear much uproar about a mainstream Christian church being built in a neighborhood, unless its about a zoning issue or size issue, but boy, try to get a Muslim temple built and people's hackles rise. That is the point. Unless you have had to fear the prejudice of the majority, you don't understand how intimidating what some call "politically incorrect" language can be, and how important eradicating it is to ensure liberty and justice for all.
|
|
|
Post by anyoneanyhow on Nov 16, 2013 23:04:52 GMT -5
Btw Christian bashing is thoroughly disgusting, as is anti Muslim hysteria, anti-semitism etc. if someone wants to practice their religion, they should have complete freedom to do that without the hate speech. That's what freedom of religion is all about.
|
|
|
Post by acebackwords on Nov 16, 2013 23:07:57 GMT -5
Of course its hard, if not impossible, to predict where Lennon would be politically in 2013.
In 1972 Lennon was hanging out with the likes of Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin and the yippies. People who were actively calling for violent revolution and violent overthrow of the government. People who regularly bandied about slogans like "Kill the pigs." And meant it.
Then 5 or 6 years later he's donating a thousand bucks to buy bulletproof vests to protect "our police." And calling the cops and even the FBI to help him when he's getting heat from various lowlifes.
|
|
|
Post by debjorgo on Nov 16, 2013 23:10:33 GMT -5
Btw Christian bashing is thoroughly disgusting, as is anti Muslim hysteria, anti-semitism etc. if someone wants to practice their religion, they should have complete freedom to do that without the hate speech. That's what freedom of religion is all about. Tell that to the Christians, the Muslims and the Jews. Most of the time they are the ones trying to force their religion on to others.
|
|
|
Post by acebackwords on Nov 16, 2013 23:24:18 GMT -5
I agree with both debjorgo and anyhowanyway on this one.
|
|
|
Post by anyoneanyhow on Nov 16, 2013 23:32:21 GMT -5
Btw Christian bashing is thoroughly disgusting, as is anti Muslim hysteria, anti-semitism etc. if someone wants to practice their religion, they should have complete freedom to do that without the hate speech. That's what freedom of religion is all about. Tell that to the Christians, the Muslims and the Jews. Most of the time they are the ones trying to force their religion on to others. Can you give any examples of Jews trying to force their religion on others?
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Nov 16, 2013 23:37:18 GMT -5
Btw Christian bashing is thoroughly disgusting, as is anti Muslim hysteria, anti-semitism etc. if someone wants to practice their religion, they should have complete freedom to do that without the hate speech. That's what freedom of religion is all about. Tell that to the Christians, the Muslims and the Jews. Most of the time they are the ones trying to force their religion on to others. Huh? I've never had a Muslim or a Jew come to my house to ask me if I want to be saved. Oh, wait. I did have someone approach me to buy a bean pie Also, how many evangelical Muslim or Jewish programs are there on mainstream broadcast television? But, having said that, it really is only the extremes that give religions bad names, anyway.
|
|
|
Post by anyoneanyhow on Nov 16, 2013 23:39:31 GMT -5
Tell that to the Christians, the Muslims and the Jews. Most of the time they are the ones trying to force their religion on to others. Huh? I've never had a Muslim or a Jew come to my house to ask me if I want to be saved. Oh, wait. I did have someone approach me to buy a bean pie Also, how many evangelical Muslim or Jewish TV shows are there are mainstream broadcast? But, having said that, it really is only the extremes that give religions bad names, anyway. Good point. Most people want to practice their beliefs quietly.
|
|
|
Post by acebackwords on Nov 16, 2013 23:55:55 GMT -5
Tell that to the Christians, the Muslims and the Jews. Most of the time they are the ones trying to force their religion on to others. Huh? I've never had a Muslim or a Jew come to my house to ask me if I want to be saved. Oh, wait. I did have someone approach me to buy a bean pie Also, how many evangelical Muslim or Jewish programs are there on mainstream broadcast television? But, having said that, it really is only the extremes that give religions bad names, anyway. Oh come on Sayne. In Muslim dominated countries they're burning Christian churches to the ground and chopping peoples heads off if they disagree with them.
|
|
|
Post by acebackwords on Nov 17, 2013 0:06:54 GMT -5
But before this degenerates into a debate over who were the bigger assholes; the Christians, the Muslims or the Jews. Let me just say for the record, in my opinion, its a toss up.
But the walrus was Paul.
Just my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by debjorgo on Nov 17, 2013 0:07:46 GMT -5
I think the Muslims knocked on our door at least once.
You're right about the Jews though, they don't recruit.
And yes, it is only the radical Muslim extremists that plotted 9/11. And it wasn't all Christians who started the crusades.
|
|
|
Post by sayne on Nov 17, 2013 0:20:37 GMT -5
Huh? I've never had a Muslim or a Jew come to my house to ask me if I want to be saved. Oh, wait. I did have someone approach me to buy a bean pie Also, how many evangelical Muslim or Jewish programs are there on mainstream broadcast television? But, having said that, it really is only the extremes that give religions bad names, anyway. Oh come on Sayne. In Muslim dominated countries they're burning Christian churches to the ground and chopping peoples heads off if they disagree with them. I interpreted the original quote to be about the United States, for which I can only speak. Majorities in any nation often directly or indirectly, either aggressively or passively, make it known what the correct of anything should be. In a majority Christian nation as the United States, it's clear what the "right" religion is. I'm sure they do the same in non-Christian countries.
|
|