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Post by mikev on Dec 4, 2013 8:01:29 GMT -5
I'll be the judge of that. It is a complete double standard. But people tend to like May, so they totally overlook and/or excuse the fact that she allowed John to be a wild drunkard, who even got thrown out of The Troubadour. (We all know that if it had been Yoko laughing and whooping it up on the West Coast with John, we'd never hear the end of what a so-and-so she was). Just admit that John was an experimenter and tried all drugs, and that it is likely he would have done heroin, with or without Yoko. okay-I guess I can't post from home anymore-posted/edited 7 times and it kept coming up blank. Yes John was an experimenter, but it is pure speculation whether or not he would have tried heroin- it would depend what circles he would be in without Yoko. I also think he was one nasty drunk, but not necessarily an alcoholic. A drunk episode vs. heroin addiction- can't compare the two. But...he and Yoko survived heroin...many didn't.
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Post by ursamajor on Dec 5, 2013 5:30:48 GMT -5
It's not surprising to see Yoko at the top because of the bad reputation that's been associated with her. I am torn about Yoko being good vs bad for John.
On the one hand , I didn't like her being involved in John's solo projects as I wanted 100% John on his solo albums and on the other hand Double Fantasy is my favourite solo album because of both John and Yoko's songs. On the other hand, I think she took John down some wrong turns and abused his emotional dependency on her. The Lost Weekend was a sham, a setup with Yoko the puppet master, I think John should have broken up with her at that point and moved on with his life but he was too weak for that. I'd like to see how Yoko would have managed to live without John's money. This is a person who was born with a silver spoon and has not worked a day in her life and who does not have a big enough following to live off her art or music on her own merits.
If Yoko did break up the Beatles then she did them a favour, along with Led Zeppelin their legendary status is engraved in stone as they went out on top.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 5, 2013 5:55:24 GMT -5
I am torn about Yoko being good vs bad for John. Nothing to be torn about. The man felt she was, and felt happiest and complete with her. Yoko felt she needed the break, as the two were constantly joined at the hip for so many years. I can understand that. Turned out that the break was good for their relationship. I don't see why John should have broken up with her and 'moved on', when he loved her so much and wanted her. I'd like to see how just about ALL of the famous stars' wives would have managed to live without their husbands' money; the thing is, nobody is bugged by that when the wife in question is not Yoko Ono. Well, she didn't break them up because the ex-Beatles have said (and Paul and Ringo continue to maintain) that the disintegration was due to a lot more than only Yoko. But I do agree that the breakup was a good thing at the right time.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 5, 2013 6:05:56 GMT -5
A drunk episode vs. heroin addiction- can't compare the two. . Sure we can. A drunken episode can result in a death, fights and hitting, DWI, etc . And John did not just have one drunken episode during his "Lost Weekend"; he was drinking all the time -- --- and also using cocaine, by the way! (Care for a toot, Ms. Pang? ) ... Come on, May! If you loved John, why not try to protect and discourage him from using booze and coke? I know the guys think you're prettier than Yoko, and that you did not meet John when he was still a Beatle, but --
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 5, 2013 6:16:33 GMT -5
the second time she told us that George had beat cancer with smooth sailing ahead(shows how much she knew) A lot of people optimistically say such things when someone they know and love has cancer, and they are temporarily out of the woods. Ringo voiced the same optimism in interviews shortly before George succumbed. Michael Landon went on Johnny Carson with advanced cancer and told the TV world he was going to beat it and all that, just days before he died. Do Beatles Fans only want to believe what they want to believe? Maybe Brian was not the brightest bulb -- I mean, he is renowned as a terrible businessman when it came to deals with the Beatles. Maybe Louise DID go 'round interesting radio stations in early '64 and getting a buzz going on -- why not? I mean aside from the reason that it might not be the way you'd like it? Well, George was always a pissy private person. Hell, reportedly we're still awaiting LET IT BE on DVD thanks to his concerns.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 5, 2013 6:38:34 GMT -5
Joe, you just pointed out yourself he did it often when he was married to Cynthia, so it was clearly more than just "one error" on his part. Where are you going with this? Now you're off on a different tangent regarding John's personal life and such, when the whole point I made was that once John met and married Yoko, he underwent a positive change and in particular, started to realize that the way he'd treated women "pre-Yoko" had been wrong. And you yourself brought up that one specific [/i]"1972 Nixon incident" with John. By all accounts, by the time JohnandYoko were together and an item, John did not want anyone else and had learned to treat women better. Too bad Cynthia did not have as much of a positive influence on him. I don't think there are many accounts of John being terrible to Yoko (other than the one Nixon incident, which you brought up as some sort of all-conclusive "evidence"). Oh no, not this nonsense again. Julian was born out of a bottle ... but yet, at least John did the noble thing by marrying Cynthia. John was still virtually a child himself at only 22 when Julian was born, and not mature or grounded enough to handle it. Plus, The Beatles were about to explode as Worldwide Sensations.... how was John to possibly commit to Julian around that touring and strain? John did see Julian pretty often after the Beatles broke up, and to his credit he regretted what he'd done as a young irresponsible newbie "Superstar" dad, and did whatever he could to later try and establish a relationship with Julian. We all learn from our mistakes, and John then became as perfect dad as he could be to Sean, and also half-brother Jules... as best he could, after the fact. Julian needs to stop whinging about his lot in life. We all have our own crosses to bear, and in some ways Julian has had it better than most. Of course I agree with the thrust of your statement here, but I also find John's personal and complex life fascinating. Or at least interesting. I don't know how many accounts there are of John allegedly mistreating Yoko in their early days, but it would make sense that he still was just finding his way and not yet grown into the maturity he would later experience with her. But it never ceases to amaze me that people critique John for being a flawed human. To me that was a very important part of his appeal as one of us, not some plastic and faux image. But back to the beginning - all I was originally saying was that Yoko turned out to be a good influence, as it turned out.
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Post by sayne on Dec 5, 2013 8:31:37 GMT -5
We all have our own crosses to bear, and in some ways Julian has had it better than most. I like a quote I heard from Dolly Parton. It could have been a line in a movie: "Get off your cross, we need the wood."
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
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Post by lowbasso on Dec 5, 2013 17:01:07 GMT -5
But back to the beginning - all I was originally saying was that Yoko turned out to be a good influence, as it turned out. Well, as much as anyone could "influence" John, Yoko tried. Can't say it was all "good" if she went along with the drug use. But then again John probably decided to do that all on his own. As well as cheat on her with the young girl on election night. But that was John's persona in a nutshell. Always thinking only about himself, and be damned how his actions affected others, even close friends and wives; Do what you want and later apologize if you really hurt someone in the process. If I had done that, my marraige would have been over the next day, no ifs ands or buts....John was damn lucky Yoko took him back at all. Look how Yoko initially treated Julian after John's death. Later, it got a little too "cozy" for me with all the PR shots of Cynthia, Yoko, Julian, and Sean around the time of LOVE and the Scorcese film premiere of George's life. Like they were The Brady Bunch, or The Partridge Family, or something. I thought they might all break out and start singing "Kum-Ba-Yah" at any moment.... Julian and Sean get along quite well, which is nice given all the family history. Think if you asked Paul or George about Yoko's influence, they would have had doubts about how good it was. They eventually accepted her as John's wife, but that is about as far as it went. Even to this day with Paul. He tolerates her, he has to for business reasons, but I don't think it has ever gone much beyond that phase, no matter what he says publicly.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Dec 5, 2013 18:31:04 GMT -5
But that was John's persona in a nutshell. Always thinking only about himself, and be damned how his actions affected others, even close friends and wives; Do what you want and later apologize if you really hurt someone in the process. If I had done that, my marraige would have been over the next day, no ifs ands or buts....John was damn lucky Yoko took him back at all. I'm certainly not going to say John was a saint. However, I think the terrible way you described him here is veering way too far in the other negative direction. I have a TV interview with Ringo from 1992 where he is asked to say the first thing that comes into his head when the interviewer mentions a name. When the guy says "John Lennon", Ringo says: "Kindest" (note: not just "kind", but "kindest"). John also had a good heart. Again, why do people expect certain celebrities to be above and beyond flawed humans? Well, so how do you want them to be, then? I think it's great, and that time has healed the wounds. I don't care what George (especially) or Paul thought about Yoko's influence on John. What I've said is what I will continue to drive home: it's only about what John thought. But in Paul's case, I think he's often said publicly that Yoko was right for John. Either he was lying all the time, or he really believes it.
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Post by Panther on Dec 11, 2013 9:43:27 GMT -5
Louise Harrison is a fraud. F-her! There is something in the law called the "Dead Man's Statute" that protects estates from these fraudulent claims of verbal promises by a decedent from hucksters like Louise Harrison who claims George promised her the world. George had the estate planning he wanted and if it cut Louise off then it came from George. Louise would have had the greatest lawsuit in the world if Olivia ignored George's written estate planning. F-you a second time Louise! I met that scumbag Louise twice at Beatlefest and once for her crappy tribute band show and the first time at Beatlefest she admitted she hadn't spoken to George in years, the second time she told us that George had beat cancer with smooth sailing ahead(shows how much she knew)and the third time she took all the credit for the Beatles' amazing success in America in 1964. My jaw dropped how she said Brian Epstein was an idiot and it was Louise who saved the day by going around to the radio stations in early 1964. F-her thrice. I forgot how much I hate Louise Harrison until I read this article. And look at the readers' comments from those idiots slamming Olivia and Dhani, written by those scum, Beatles tribute band worshipping Branson Missouri Beatle fanboy jack-offs! F-Louise a fourth time. Private George was pissed at his sister from Louise first "tell all" album in 1964 on! Okay, but how do you feel about Louise Harrison??
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