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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 14, 2014 7:10:37 GMT -5
Good summary Joey, i didn't grow up listening to the US versions so i don't warm to them. It might be interesting here to note that it isn't all about the nostalgia. For example, think of the majority of Americans who never grew up with the true UK releases, and yet most of them came to warm up to the British releases.
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Post by John S. Damm on Feb 17, 2014 10:50:58 GMT -5
I am finally playing in order the CDs in this new American box and I join JcS in lamenting Apple's putting the Mono versions first.
I grew up with the stereo versions, fake stereo and all, and that is what I want. Capitol Volumes 1 & 2 got it right putting Stereo first on each disc.
Right now I must play the entire CD to make sure there are no defects and man, even us Beatles diehards can get burned out listening to the same album twice in a row. In the future I will only play the Stereo versions but then I must put in the disc and queue it to Track 13 for many albums but Track 12 on some(like The Early Beatles).
The Early Beatles is the only Disc where Mono sounds better(slightly) IMO and the Mono "And I Love Here" on SN and maybe AHDN is the single-tracked Paul vocal and the start of the Mono "If I Fell" has the first few lines John single-tracked. Those are cool.
But mostly the Mono blows!
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Post by joeyself on Feb 18, 2014 0:03:34 GMT -5
I actually did both halves of VI tonight. Why? Because the only other one I had in the house that I've not played was HELP!, and I didn't feel like getting up to get it (it was 4 feet away).
In the car, I've been playing all the mono songs on a given album, and then switching to another one. I think I have four in the car, two in the house, five with my friend Kim (who is listening to all the '64 stuff for me) and two with Mark (RUBBER SOUL and HEY JUDE), doing the same quality control for me that Kim is.
JcS
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Post by John S. Damm on Feb 18, 2014 11:43:02 GMT -5
To take a break from listening to the album twice, first in Mono then in Stereo, I jumped to Hey Jude and man, that was fantastic!
Just holding that thick cardboard CD jacket was a near flashback to holding the vinyl album jacket! That album is just Stereo as you good folks all know and it sounded great. I have not played the HJ album in over 25 years yet I knew what was coming without looking at the back jacket.
HJ is a winner and that is the one I'd buy individually if I were to pick up extra copies maybe to hand out as gifts.
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Post by joeyself on Feb 19, 2014 12:35:02 GMT -5
I got a call this morning from Kim, the lady that is listening to the first five CDs from the US ALBUMS box. She wanted to know if she was first in line to get these discs if something happened to me. She was up to AHDN, and said "I even love the instrumentals. I didn't think I would."
Now, to fully disclose, Kim loves the Beatles, but I don't think she owns many of their albums. When she borrowed all of my CDs in the mid-90s, she liked HELP! the best, and she has a copy of it now. But when she looked at the discs I handed her, she said "I'm not sure I know all these songs," so I am pretty sure she doesn't have many CDs beyond HELP! She has no prejudice for or against the American albums, no nostalgia being stoked, and no "that's not what they intended" agenda. She is just loving what she is hearing again, even if she doesn't remember hearing all these songs 20 or so years ago.
And I think that's cool. I wouldn't trade my knowledge--which undoubtedly clouds my judgment on many things about the Fabs-- for her comparable blank slate, but it is refreshing to talk to a relative newbie about this release.
JcS
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Post by Blackguard on Feb 19, 2014 18:30:57 GMT -5
I bought the individual CDs. They're available as separates for only a few months, or as so we are told. I compared the new Meet The Beatles to the Capitol albums version. I have to say that the original sounded cloudy next to the new CD. So I don't have any problems with the new CDs being created from the 2009 remasters. I do like that the edits and quirks that made the American titles the American titles have been preserved. Meaning if a vocal was single tracked on a US record the new CD is the same. I think of it like the American records went and got a face lift. And I like that the CDs carry Capitol rainbow labels, my favorite design used by Capitol.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 20, 2014 6:45:09 GMT -5
I compared the new Meet The Beatles to the Capitol albums version. I have to say that the original sounded cloudy next to the new CD. So in other words, the older Capitol albums CD version sounded a little more like ---- the actual U.S. Capitol album. That's an interesting way of putting it. I do at least take some solace in that the new discs retained the little quirks that appeared on the U.S. albums. But I still feel they are not a true representation of what the U.S. releases were in the 1960s.
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Post by joeyself on Feb 20, 2014 11:04:55 GMT -5
I bought the individual CDs. They're available as separates for only a few months, or as so we are told. I compared the new Meet The Beatles to the Capitol albums version. I have to say that the original sounded cloudy next to the new CD. So I don't have any problems with the new CDs being created from the 2009 remasters. I do like that the edits and quirks that made the American titles the American titles have been preserved. Meaning if a vocal was single tracked on a US record the new CD is the same. I think of it like the American records went and got a face lift. And I like that the CDs carry Capitol rainbow labels, my favorite design used by Capitol. Did you get all of them? I mean, I normally cite REVOLVER as the one that no one needs if they have the UK version, but this week I've come to realize THE EARLY BEATLES is just as useless--and perhaps even more aggravating to the fan that has heard the excuse about the royalty issue keeping the number of tracks to a maximum of 12. At least on the American REVOLVER, "Tomorrow Never Knows" was not moved to the second slot as "Twist And Shout" was. I have mixed emotions about what was done with this set. I understand the frustration of the purist that wanted it just as they heard it in the 60's and '70's, but, and I think this is a big 'but', since these titles are offered individually instead of only in the box, then I also understand the notion of making them sound "better" to what may be more casual fans that would spend $13 on one of them as opposed to $160 for all of them. I realize "better" is subjective--me, I think the YELLOW SUBMARINE SONGTRACK sounds better than the original mixes, but others cringe at the thought--but someone hearing "I Feel Fine" or "Roll Over Beethoven" at its Dexterized best/worst might not come back to buy more of these. Have you heard how long these discs will be offered individually? JcS
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Post by John S. Damm on Feb 20, 2014 11:11:54 GMT -5
So far I am most impressed with Hey Jude and Yesterday And Today for the sonics although Early Beatles was pretty potent, both Mono and Stereo.
As a kid I did not play The Beatles Second Album a lot but it sure rocks hard in places. The one album that has fallen in my opinion is Meet The Beatles. I have written here a hundred times that is one U.S. album the Capitol suits got right but man, Side 2 runs out of gas. Side 1 is a powerhouse for sure, I am not sure that Side could ever be made better but Side 2 has "'Til There Was Spew" which would handicap any Rock album. "Hold Me Tight" is not so good either as recorded.
But last night I just sat in front of my stereo and really enjoyed Yesterday and Today.
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Post by debjorgo on Feb 20, 2014 13:47:55 GMT -5
I realize "better" is subjective--me, I think the YELLOW SUBMARINE SONGTRACK sounds better than the original mixes, but others cringe at the thought--but someone hearing "I Feel Fine" or "Roll Over Beethoven" at its Dexterized best/worst might not come back to buy more of these. JcS Some of the Capitol songs sound better. I haven't compared all the songs yet so I did the test for I Feel Fine. I have to agree, Past Master is the better version. It's especially noticeable when the vocals kicked in. The Capitol Roll Over Beethoven is better to my ears.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 20, 2014 16:00:18 GMT -5
Just a note: the Americanized "I Feel Fine" and "She's A Woman" were done by GEORGE MARTIN (not Dave Dexter). I much prefer the raunchy and rockin' BEATLES '65 mix of "I Feel Fine" to the lightweight and saccharine version of the PAST MASTERS (UK original single).
I also prefer the 1999 YELLOW SUBMARINE SONGTRACK to the original.
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Post by debjorgo on Feb 20, 2014 17:51:21 GMT -5
Just a note: the Americanized "I Feel Fine" and "She's A Woman" were done by GEORGE MARTIN (not Dave Dexter). I much prefer the raunchy and rockin' BEATLES '65 mix of "I Feel Fine" to the lightweight and saccharine version of the PAST MASTERS (UK original single). You're saying George Martin created a duophonic mix for the American stereo release? Why would he do that? He had the master tapes to use for any mixes. From the Beatles Rarity www.thebeatlesrarity.com/2014/01/26/the-u-s-albums-box-set-a-final-word-on-mixes-used/"Beatles ’65 – The original mono album had three unique U.S. mixes for “I’ll Be Back,” “She’s A Woman” (with more echo and a shorter fade out) and “I Feel Fine” (with more echo). All three are used in the upgraded U.S. Albums box set upgrade. The others come from the 2009 remasters and are the same mixes heard on the original album. For the stereo album, almost all tracks were originally the same mixes that are now on the 2009 remasters and are used again for the upgrade. The exceptions are “I Feel Fine” and “She’s A Woman,” which were duophonic mixes that were replaced on The U.S. Albums version with the true stereo version." To me, Past Masters is the obvious better sounding version. You said at one point that you might switch your discs between the Capitol/US jackets. Are you sure you are not listening to the US version and are thinking it's the Capitol release?
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Feb 21, 2014 7:33:11 GMT -5
You're saying George Martin created a duophonic mix for the American stereo release? Why would he do that? He had the master tapes to use for any mixes. You'll have to ask Rob Leonard, host of the radio show "Beatle Songs" and also the podcast "The Fab4Free4All". That's where I recently heard about this. I love the original U.S. Vinyl record of BEATLES '65, and the original Capitol swirl 45rpm single for "I Feel Fine"/"She's A Woman". I know the versions I am talking about here. As for the PAST MASTERS version sounding "better", I can understand what you mean because when I was a teenager I actively sought out the original UK releases on vinyl. And back then I really started to prefer the original UK recordings (and even better sounding Japanese Imports) because "I Feel Fine" and "She's A Woman" (and others) now sounded so much cleaner, sharper, more clear and bright. So I get the appeal -- however, in recent years I have returned to thinking that the Capitol "echo and reverb" mixes just made the songs come more to rock and roll life. They may not sound as "clean" as the originals, but they sound more heavy and rockin' to me.
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Post by debjorgo on Feb 21, 2014 9:09:16 GMT -5
I love the original U.S. Vinyl record of BEATLES '65, and the original Capitol swirl 45rpm single for "I Feel Fine"/"She's A Woman". I know the versions I am talking about here. As for the PAST MASTERS version sounding "better", I can understand what you mean because when I was a teenager I actively sought out the original UK releases on vinyl. And back then I really started to prefer the original UK recordings (and even better sounding Japanese Imports) because "I Feel Fine" and "She's A Woman" (and others) now sounded so much cleaner, sharper, more clear and bright. So I get the appeal -- however, in recent years I have returned to thinking that the Capitol "echo and reverb" mixes just made the songs come more to rock and roll life. They may not sound as "clean" as the originals, but they sound more heavy and rockin' to me. I'm on record here for saying that they should had used the Capitol mixes for the new collection. I would prefer to like the Capitol mixes. In general, I like the added effects on the songs. I'm trying to listen with a fresh ear to the Capitol versions vs. the US Albums (mostly the 2009 mixes). I just think the vocals sound a little too lost in the mix on I Feel Fine. Since the US Albums were remixed and tweaked a little to sound like the Capitol mixes, they could have done a good job with this song. With it, they just flat out used the 2009 mix.
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Post by John S. Damm on Feb 21, 2014 10:30:03 GMT -5
Last night was Beatles VI and that is a good album. That is another album I may not have played a lot as a kid but of course I owned all of those on vinyl.
VI in Stereo has good sonics. I had fun listening to it and as it was the first time played, I listened to both Mono and Stereo for quality control.
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Post by joeyself on Feb 21, 2014 14:33:19 GMT -5
I've had a question about the US mix of "I Feel Fine/She's A Woman" for some time. Listening to the UK versions on PAST MASTERS 1 (either the '87 or '09 versions) certainly sound different, so there's no question in my mind that the fans in the USA got something different when it bought the single or BEATLES '65. RM 4 is the one that came to the States, while RM 3, created at the same mixing session, was used in the UK. www.beatlesbible.com/1964/10/21/mixing-i-feel-fine-ill-follow-the-sun-shes-a-woman-everybodys-trying-to-be-my-baby/But the question is: Did it sound at Abbey Road like it sounded when Capitol released it? I'm dubious. I think the US mix was Dexterized, and this supports that conclusion: www.beatlesbible.com/1964/11/23/us-single-i-feel-fine/ as does this quote from www.beatlesebooks.com/i-feel-fine"The British mix had just a touch of reverb while a little more reverb was added for the American mix, as that was what Capitol Records apparently wanted. This didn't appear to be enough, since it is reported that Capitol added even more." The latter quote does not give a source for the report. I still lean toward the conclusion that what was released in America wasn't what left the control room at Abbey Road. I don't know that RM 4 has been released without the extra reverb added by Capitol; I'd like to hear how much Martin thought would be enough to satisfy Capitol. And of course, the stereo version was a duophonic version, since only the mono mix was sent to Capitol at the time. Nothing about this is intended to persuade anyone which is the best version to listen to now--that's totally subjective--but is intended to examine the thesis that what the Americans got was what Martin sent over. I think the evidence is contra, and that Capitol again made changes to what it was provided. JcS
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Post by joeyself on Feb 26, 2014 22:08:27 GMT -5
I actually did both halves of VI tonight. Why? Because the only other one I had in the house that I've not played was HELP!, and I didn't feel like getting up to get it (it was 4 feet away). In the car, I've been playing all the mono songs on a given album, and then switching to another one. I think I have four in the car, two in the house, five with my friend Kim (who is listening to all the '64 stuff for me) and two with Mark (RUBBER SOUL and HEY JUDE), doing the same quality control for me that Kim is. JcS All is well with my set. Kim and Mark listened to what I mentioned above, and both reported no problems. Kim wanted more, so I gave her those released in 1965 (well, I know '65 actually came out in December '64, but she doesn't). I've questioned whether I should have spent the money on this box set, but being able to share them with Kim and hearing her say how much she enjoys them is worth SOMETHING to me! JcS
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Post by joeyself on Mar 1, 2014 11:30:50 GMT -5
I played the stereo portion of AHDN today, and found it to be much more pleasing than the US HELP!. I hadn't heard those instrumentals in close to 30 years, and while I still think they are a net minus for the program, it was nice to hear them again. I preferred the first two--"I Should Have Known Better" and "And I Love Her"-- to the final pair of "Ringo's Theme" and "A Hard Day's Night, but none of them made me want to find the "next" button. Not so with the HELP! instrumentals--had I not been listening to make sure nothing was wrong with the disc, I would have skipped all of them.
JcS
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 1, 2014 19:11:52 GMT -5
I played the stereo portion of AHDN today, and found it to be much more pleasing than the US HELP!. I hadn't heard those instrumentals in close to 30 years, and while I still think they are a net minus for the program, it was nice to hear them again. I preferred the first two--"I Should Have Known Better" and "And I Love Her"-- to the final pair of "Ringo's Theme" and "A Hard Day's Night, but none of them made me want to find the "next" button. Not so with the HELP! instrumentals--had I not been listening to make sure nothing was wrong with the disc, I would have skipped all of them. JcS I got so agitated listening to the Help! instrumentals, particularly the "Can't Buy Me Love/I Should Have Known Better" on cheesy sitars and other Indian music that I wanted to load my 12 Gauge Shotgun and blow my stereo apart. Man is the US Help awful in that regard. I am now sorry I bought that damn US Box. And in Mono then Stereo. BORING!!
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 1, 2014 20:13:36 GMT -5
I got so agitated listening to the Help! instrumentals, particularly the "Can't Buy Me Love/I Should Have Known Better" on cheesy sitars and other Indian music that I wanted to load my 12 Gauge Shotgun and blow my stereo apart. Man is the US Help awful in that regard. ! The timing here is amazing! I was just intending to come here and RAVE all about the HELP! soundtrack, because I just had to drive my girl somewhere tonight (and I'll be picking her up in a couple of hours again) -- and by sheer coincidence I chose to bring the AHDN and HELP! CDs in the car with me. On my ride home alone through the dark night I CRANKED UP THE VOLUME -- I elected to play the STEREO version of the U.S. HELP -- and I was IN HEAVEN! Man, the sound to the regular songs in Stereo on this CD just really are astounding in quality and power...! But the main thing was, I still LOVE that Indian instrumental called "Another Hard Day's Night"..! Hey, JSD -- I was actually singing aloud the parts to "Can't Buy Me Love" and "I Should Have Known Better"! Of all the instrumentals from the film, this is the one I play every time... it's great! I know I won't be able to make you appreciate it, but let me try this: the Indian Instrumental should be taken for what it was intended to be -- a scene in HELP! for laughs, where The Beatles go into a restaurant, and the Indian adversaries beat up the house band and impersonate them, playing their Indian versions of popular Beatles songs! As a mish-mash of various Fab Four classics, I consider it a pure joy for fun! I skipped all the other instrumentals this time even though I'll sometimes play them, though I never play the last track ("The Chase"); but man oh man do I ever adore "Another Hard Day's Night"! The first Indian track to ever appear on a Beatles record!
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Post by anyoneanyhow on Mar 1, 2014 20:27:24 GMT -5
Help! Was the second album I ever bought, on a cassette that stopped playing maybe 30 years ago. So that is the one US reissue I bought, I miss those instrumentals and the James Bond intro to Help! I like those instrumentals, but maybe JSD ought to retire his cd.
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Mar 1, 2014 20:29:52 GMT -5
Help! Was the second album I ever bought, on a cassette that stopped playing maybe 30 years ago. So that is the one US reissue I bought, I miss those instrumentals and the James Bond intro to Help! I like those instrumentals, but maybe JSD ought to retire his cd. Oh, pay him no nevermind. It's just like JSD to know what he's getting with the U.S. album -- and then buy it anyway -- and complain again about it anyway!
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 1, 2014 21:18:17 GMT -5
I will say the instrumentals make me appreciate more the Beatle songs on HELP! as I can't wait to get to them after those instrumentals!
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Mar 1, 2014 23:39:11 GMT -5
Ursa, I am glad that you are getting Volumes 1 & 2 as I think they are going to become in huge demand once American fans, sentimental for their past, realize this new complete Box is essentially the 2009 remasters simply put in the American format. Joey linked us to that article where many of the songs in the new Box are graded "Pass" or "Fail" as to being like the the original American vinyl versions and a lot, maybe the majority, "Fail." Folks, don't sell your Volumes 1 & 2 yet if you were otherwise inclined. I predict a huge demand once the dust settles on this new Box. Very much, agree, John. And I'm damn glad I picked up the Japanese Vol. 1 for $11.
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Post by John S. Damm on Mar 1, 2014 23:49:58 GMT -5
Ursa, I am glad that you are getting Volumes 1 & 2 as I think they are going to become in huge demand once American fans, sentimental for their past, realize this new complete Box is essentially the 2009 remasters simply put in the American format. Joey linked us to that article where many of the songs in the new Box are graded "Pass" or "Fail" as to being like the the original American vinyl versions and a lot, maybe the majority, "Fail." Folks, don't sell your Volumes 1 & 2 yet if you were otherwise inclined. I predict a huge demand once the dust settles on this new Box. Very much, agree, John. And I'm damn glad I picked up the Japanese Vol. 1 for $11. Steve, how is the Japanese Vol. 1 different or better than our American counterpart? The Japanese versions of everything always seem to have better extras or better sonics.
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Post by joeyself on Mar 2, 2014 1:04:42 GMT -5
I got so agitated listening to the Help! instrumentals, particularly the "Can't Buy Me Love/I Should Have Known Better" on cheesy sitars and other Indian music that I wanted to load my 12 Gauge Shotgun and blow my stereo apart. Man is the US Help awful in that regard. I am now sorry I bought that damn US Box. And in Mono then Stereo. BORING!! Yeah, it's the pits, easily my least favorite of the 12 (not counting BEATLES STORY) in the box. I get aggravated at the skimpy nature of many of these, and THE EARLY BEATLES and REVOLVER are really annoying in what wasn't there, but the US HELP! is beyond aggravating and annoying--it is irritating, or as you said, even agitating. 15 seconds of James Bond intro to the title track just doesn't make up for the price of that one. I haven't decided if I'm glad I bought it--I know I'm glad I got it for $110 rather than $160 or more--but I don't think I'm SORRY I bought it, either. I mean, I could have just bought HEY JUDE and YESTERDAY & TODAY and have been done with it, but then I wouldn't have had any reason to lend several of them to Kim and Mark, and they enjoyed what they heard. Criticized--and rightly so--as Capitol was for not making these sound like the original issues, I think if I ever have a yearning to put on one of the eight I already had, I will probably reach for this box instead of the two CAPITOL ALBUMS box set. For one thing, the discs won't fall out and hit me on the feet as they do in the first volume, and second, I prefer the way they sound as compared to the originals. JcS
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Mar 2, 2014 15:49:50 GMT -5
Very much, agree, John. And I'm damn glad I picked up the Japanese Vol. 1 for $11. Steve, how is the Japanese Vol. 1 different or better than our American counterpart? The Japanese versions of everything always seem to have better extras or better sonics. There's a Japanese only book of lyrics. There is a lot of Japanese writing on the back of the longbox and each disc has a cellophane envelope inside the sleeve of each album to hold each disc. The discs and and sound appeared to be completely the same when I A/B'd them a few weeks back.
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Post by debjorgo on Mar 3, 2014 6:23:56 GMT -5
I'm curious about the mastered for iTunes files. Has anyone did any kind of a/b review of these tracks. I thought about getting Meet the Beatles or Yesterday and Today just to do so. But hell, all of the Beatles discs are mastered for iTunes. I might as well get Let it Be or Abbey Road to test. Nobody here has a take on whether the Mastered for iTunes tracks are worth getting? I have all the CDs because I'm a hard disc kind of guy but I'm tempted to get the 2009 albums as iTunes tracks too.
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Post by joeyself on Mar 3, 2014 8:48:35 GMT -5
I'm curious about the mastered for iTunes files. Has anyone did any kind of a/b review of these tracks. I thought about getting Meet the Beatles or Yesterday and Today just to do so. But hell, all of the Beatles discs are mastered for iTunes. I might as well get Let it Be or Abbey Road to test. Nobody here has a take on whether the Mastered for iTunes tracks are worth getting? I have all the CDs because I'm a hard disc kind of guy but I'm tempted to get the 2009 albums as iTunes tracks too. I have no idea; I've never bought anything from iTunes, and it wouldn't dawn on me to pay for something like this that I already owned. JcS
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Post by mikev on Mar 3, 2014 9:07:15 GMT -5
Nobody here has a take on whether the Mastered for iTunes tracks are worth getting? I have all the CDs because I'm a hard disc kind of guy but I'm tempted to get the 2009 albums as iTunes tracks too. I have no idea; I've never bought anything from iTunes, and it wouldn't dawn on me to pay for something like this that I already owned. JcS Mastered for itunes is a fancy way to say: compressed, but in a way that maximizes a mix to hear through the little shi##y buds we provide. I have a better suggestion. Seeing that you already have the CDs..take $200 (US) of your hard earned cash, and set it on fire. All joking aside, unless it is something otherwise not avaialble on disc like 1963 Boots, itunes purchased for CDs already owned is a waste, because you can rip them as 256kbps (superior mp-3)and still fit a lot on your ipod, with audio quality only the most professional audiophiles can discern from wave files (standard CD).
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