markc
Very Clean
Posts: 447
|
Post by markc on Apr 8, 2014 8:43:32 GMT -5
Was the song All Things Must Pass actually rejected by John and Paul for the Get Back/Let It Be and Abbey Road albums, or did George just pull it back from consideration to save for his solo album?
|
|
|
Post by stavros on Apr 8, 2014 14:59:30 GMT -5
Without referring to anything in particular I think it was a case of there not being a decent run through available to make a decent recording out of ATMP for Let it Be rather than it being rejected.
There was also some reluctance on George's part to record it with the Beatles. Perhaps because the band were struggling to find an arrangement, or maybe because he felt the other Beatles were a bit lukewarm to it. Probably both of those reasons.
It would have rounded off "Let it Be" nicely as the last song on the last album released whilst the band were about to part for good.
Although it's not really even a demo, there is a version where Paul, John and George all take turns to sing the first three lines of All Things Must Pass kicking around. This is from the Get Back sessions and was a nice idea that sadly never came to fruition.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 8, 2014 15:34:19 GMT -5
MikeV has studied and listened to probably every Beatles' rehearsal of ATMP. I'd like to read his response although Stavros has a great response.
I'd love to hear that version he mentions where George, Paul and John all take turns singing lead vocal.
|
|
|
Post by vectisfabber on Apr 8, 2014 16:55:48 GMT -5
I've said it before, and I'll say it again here - put every version on computer, use software to timestretch and tempo shift everything to the same speed and key, discard the crap bits, sync beeps and so on, and build a decent version out of the listenable bits. I'm surprised some enterprising techie fan hasn't already done it.
|
|
|
Post by stavros on Apr 8, 2014 17:58:40 GMT -5
I've said it before, and I'll say it again here - put every version on computer, use software to timestretch and tempo shift everything to the same speed and key, discard the crap bits, sync beeps and so on, and build a decent version out of the listenable bits. I'm surprised some enterprising techie fan hasn't already done it. Many have tried Vectis. But there really isn't a particularly good starting point other than the solo George version on Anthology. The backing instrumentation and/or the vocals on most versions are let down by sloppy vocals or instrumentation at some point by at least one of the Beatles. This is one of the "better" versions put together. But it still leaves a lot to be desired. I think we can say that this sort of track would be OK on Anthology. However there was no time when the Beatles were together that a decent recording existed that could be turned into something releasable. Even Let it Be Naked only gives us a snippet of the song. A golden missed opportunity for the Beatles but it obviously worked out well for George.
|
|
|
Post by debjorgo on Apr 8, 2014 18:07:23 GMT -5
George had a hard time getting the other guys interested. If John had brought the song in, Paul would have been all over it, trying to finish it.
Didn't George say when he was introducing I Me Mine "Here's a song. You probably won't like it".
|
|
|
Post by mikev on Apr 8, 2014 21:18:47 GMT -5
Late January they discussed tracking it but went to lunch and never returned to it. There is a version of Dig it where John blurts out titles to songs on the "LP" and ATMP is one of them, so I think there was intention to include it.
Also in late January there is a complete take with Bill Preston but George's vocal is weak. That one could be a base with modern technology, and import George's anthology vocal and some Paul and John backing vocals.
The original movie edit had them rehearsing the song, and perhaps it might have been properly recorded by the Threetles in early 1970. That could have been pretty cool. It is a shame they only did the one song.
In the 90s I played around with early wav editors and managed to import John and Paul's vocals onto the Spector version. It came out amazingly well, but I have long lost it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2014 5:34:11 GMT -5
One of George's great songs and he finally got to record it with muso's who showed more than just a passing interest.
Happy the way it worked out.
|
|
|
Post by Panther on Apr 9, 2014 6:10:31 GMT -5
In fact, if you check the sessions for Get Back/Let It Be, 'All Things Must Pass' was probably the single song they spent the most time on. It's a myth that The Beatles didn't want to do it, or weren't willing. It is probably true, however, that John Lennon was a bit disinterested in general in George's songs. (In fairness, he did say that 'Something' was the best song on Abbey Road.)
Exactly why the song didn't make it to the 'master-stage' is unknown to me. I suspect it was simply a case of George feeling that The Beatles didn't really do the song justice, or maybe he just got pissed off at the lack of interest Lennon (and maybe McCartney) were showing at the time. By the time of the rooftop concert, George was certainly a bit pissed (again), as he didn't sing any lead at all and only did a tiny bit of backing vocal on one song, which is fairly inaudible anyway.
George was really influenced by The Band and Dylan in January 1969, and he may have just given up on The Beatles doing justice to one of his greatest songs. It all worked out well in the end, I guess.
|
|
markc
Very Clean
Posts: 447
|
Post by markc on Apr 9, 2014 8:28:18 GMT -5
The demo is quite nice. They could have done a nice arrangement as they did wither song Let It Be. George must have been thinking about the solo album by then. after all, he had quit the band that month (see you round the clubs). The demo was on his birthday and the other two songs demoed that day were recorded and released in 1969. Maybe he was already thinking ATMP would be a good title track.
One funny thing I've noticed is the rushed tempo in singing the phrase "all things must pass" in the Beatles versions, similar to the way John sang the phrase "'cause I'm going to" in Strawberry Fields Forever out takes.
|
|
|
Post by mikev on Apr 9, 2014 8:46:07 GMT -5
just went three times through Sulpy's book. Jan. 2rd 2 takes, 3rd 37 takes, 6th 9 takes, 8th 12 takes, Jan 28 4 takes, Jan. 29th 4 takes.
Nowhere in the book does it mention them tracking it before they went to lunch, which likely means I heard it on the tapes. But it was discussed either on the 28th or 29th.
|
|
|
Post by stavros on Apr 9, 2014 17:14:38 GMT -5
I thought this over and now it makes me wonder what a full George Martin production on Abbey Road would have delivered?
George's songs are arguably the best two tracks on the album. "All Things Must Pass" with all four Beatles and a George Martin production would not feel out of place on Abbey Road. Although it sounds fine to me with Spector's production on George's album it may (just may) have sounded even better had George had more conviction to record it in 1969 and the other Beatles showed more interest in it.
|
|
|
Post by mikev on Apr 9, 2014 21:29:37 GMT -5
just went three times through Sulpy's book. Jan. 2rd 2 takes, 3rd 37 takes, 6th 9 takes, 8th 12 takes, Jan 28 4 takes, Jan. 29th 4 takes. Nowhere in the book does it mention them tracking it before they went to lunch, which likely means I heard it on the tapes. But it was discussed either on the 28th or 29th. I went to the last take on the 29th(Nagra) . They discussed tracking it there, but went to lunch and never went back to it.
|
|
|
Post by Panther on Apr 11, 2014 2:35:31 GMT -5
...and the other Beatles showed more interest in it. 64 takes isn't enough interest? This song just wasn't suitable for The Beatles.
|
|
|
Post by mikev on Apr 11, 2014 7:00:52 GMT -5
...and the other Beatles showed more interest in it. 64 takes isn't enough interest? This song just wasn't suitable for The Beatles. Although this guy sounds more like Ricky Ricardo than George Harrsion, the music and animation are brilliant. Point is that I think this could have been great on Abbey Road, but his (George's) version is majestic IMO.
|
|
markc
Very Clean
Posts: 447
|
Post by markc on Apr 11, 2014 8:03:59 GMT -5
The problem with most of the Beatles takes of the song is Paul's strange harmony vocal. Maybe George couldn't tell Paul not to sing, and decided to save it for later. To Paul's credit his rendition was powerful and moving at the Concert for George.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 11, 2014 9:44:27 GMT -5
The problem with most of the Beatles takes of the song is Paul's strange harmony vocal. Maybe George couldn't tell Paul not to sing, and decided to save it for later. To Paul's credit his rendition was powerful and moving at the Concert for George. I have felt that Paul's performance of "All Things Must Pass" at The Concert For George is the number 1 greatest live moment for Macca ever! It was sincere, poignant and heartfelt. Paul seems uncharacteristically nervous in the start of the song but seems to pick up steam. There is an interview of Eric Clapton somewhere where he claims he assigned that song to Paul specifically, it wasn't Paul's choice and Paul was said to have briefly objected but Clapton wanted Paul doing that specific song perhaps to show Paul what The Beatles had missed out on. That interview is out there and I can't remember if it is in print or on film but when I read/heard that I went, "Whoa!'
|
|
lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
|
Post by lowbasso on Apr 11, 2014 11:01:19 GMT -5
The problem with most of the Beatles takes of the song is Paul's strange harmony vocal. Maybe George couldn't tell Paul not to sing, and decided to save it for later. To Paul's credit his rendition was powerful and moving at the Concert for George. That version Paul did in 2002 makes up for the fact that the song never appeared on a Beatles album in my book. It made up for a lot of the Paul/George rift that followed them throughout the post Beatles era right up through George's death.
|
|
|
Post by mikev on Apr 11, 2014 11:32:50 GMT -5
The problem with most of the Beatles takes of the song is Paul's strange harmony vocal. Maybe George couldn't tell Paul not to sing, and decided to save it for later. To Paul's credit his rendition was powerful and moving at the Concert for George. That version Paul did in 2002 makes up for the fact that the song never appeared on a Beatles album in my book. It made up for a lot of the Paul/George rift that followed them throughout the post Beatles era right up through George's death. He actually had it on his set list for a couple of years.
|
|
markc
Very Clean
Posts: 447
|
Post by markc on Apr 11, 2014 14:14:18 GMT -5
Holy heck! I'd never seen that! Pretty good arrangement for a five piece.
|
|
lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
|
Post by lowbasso on Apr 11, 2014 16:20:44 GMT -5
That version Paul did in 2002 makes up for the fact that the song never appeared on a Beatles album in my book. It made up for a lot of the Paul/George rift that followed them throughout the post Beatles era right up through George's death. He actually had it on his set list for a couple of years. St. Petersburg concert was 2004 wasn't it? 2 years after Concert For George. I thought Eric told Paul he was doing that song, and Paul was nervous about doing it because it was the first time? ATMP in St. Pete never made the released video did it?
|
|
|
Post by stavros on Apr 11, 2014 16:40:44 GMT -5
...and the other Beatles showed more interest in it. 64 takes isn't enough interest? This song just wasn't suitable for The Beatles. I stand corrected then. I once listened my way through the 30 days set and many of the takes broke down after just a few bars, others sound half hearted. I guess the Beatles just couldn't make it work as you say. It was also another slow to mid tempo number and so perhaps that was another reason it was canned. If I remember George's "Not Guilty" ran on for multiple takes and yet the Beatles seemed unable to get that to work as a band too. Poor old George. It was probably a good idea to bring Clapton in to play on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" otherwise that would have stayed hidden for years as well. Even though George's acoustic version is actually one of the stand out tracks on Anthology IMO.
|
|
|
Post by mikev on Apr 11, 2014 17:16:56 GMT -5
He actually had it on his set list for a couple of years. St. Petersburg concert was 2004 wasn't it? 2 years after Concert For George. I thought Eric told Paul he was doing that song, and Paul was nervous about doing it because it was the first time? ATMP in St. Pete never made the released video did it? I guess it escapes our collective memories, but 2004 was a year he did a lot of deep cuts. The Madrid concert on youtube (though I only found it in mono) was loaded with great tunes including ATMP.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2014 5:40:09 GMT -5
The problem with most of the Beatles takes of the song is Paul's strange harmony vocal. Maybe George couldn't tell Paul not to sing, and decided to save it for later. To Paul's credit his rendition was powerful and moving at the Concert for George. I have felt that Paul's performance of "All Things Must Pass" at The Concert For George is the number 1 greatest live moment for Macca ever! It was sincere, poignant and heartfelt. Paul seems uncharacteristically nervous in the start of the song but seems to pick up steam. There is an interview of Eric Clapton somewhere where he claims he assigned that song to Paul specifically, it wasn't Paul's choice and Paul was said to have briefly objected but Clapton wanted Paul doing that specific song perhaps to show Paul what The Beatles had missed out on. That interview is out there and I can't remember if it is in print or on film but when I read/heard that I went, "Whoa!' Interesting thoughts JSD, i'm the opposite, i wasn't happy about Paul doing that song because he was part of the reason the song didn't become a Beatles song. George was peaking as a songwriter and i'm not sure Paul and John were comfortable with it.
|
|
|
Post by John S. Damm on Apr 12, 2014 11:22:08 GMT -5
I have felt that Paul's performance of "All Things Must Pass" at The Concert For George is the number 1 greatest live moment for Macca ever! It was sincere, poignant and heartfelt. Paul seems uncharacteristically nervous in the start of the song but seems to pick up steam. There is an interview of Eric Clapton somewhere where he claims he assigned that song to Paul specifically, it wasn't Paul's choice and Paul was said to have briefly objected but Clapton wanted Paul doing that specific song perhaps to show Paul what The Beatles had missed out on. That interview is out there and I can't remember if it is in print or on film but when I read/heard that I went, "Whoa!' Interesting thoughts JSD, i'm the opposite, i wasn't happy about Paul doing that song because he was part of the reason the song didn't become a Beatles song. George was peaking as a songwriter and i'm not sure Paul and John were comfortable with it. I understand your feelings on that fabfour! I think Clapton felt the same way but he was going to make Paul confront that ATMP and thus George got shabby treatment too often by John and Paul. I watched about half of the concert on DVD last night including all of Ringo's and Paul's sets and I got pretty choked up all over again on ATMP. LOL, I forgot how short Paul's hair was back then and he still largely sounded like our Paul of old!
|
|
lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
|
Post by lowbasso on Apr 12, 2014 18:24:20 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts JSD, i'm the opposite, i wasn't happy about Paul doing that song because he was part of the reason the song didn't become a Beatles song. George was peaking as a songwriter and i'm not sure Paul and John were comfortable with it. I understand your feelings on that fabfour! I think Clapton felt the same way but he was going to make Paul confront that ATMP and thus George got shabby treatment too often by John and Paul. I watched about half of the concert on DVD last night including all of Ringo's and Paul's sets and I got pretty choked up all over again on ATMP. LOL, I forgot how short Paul's hair was back then and he still largely sounded like our Paul of old! Maybe George told Eric decades ago it was Paul that shot down any chance of ATMP making it onto a Beatles Album, so Eric decided to do something about that....??
|
|
|
Post by Snookeroo on Apr 12, 2014 23:40:21 GMT -5
Why does legend have it that John and Paul REJECTED the song? Bootlegs show Paul "all over" George's songs toward the end. John was either with Yoko, or just didn't give a crap. George was in a very bad mindset as far as being a Beatle, and may well have not pushed so hard.
The reason the song didn't get onto the LET IT BE album is probably that there simply wasn't a decent recording of it to work with. Maybe it's Spector's fault the song didn't make the cut. Actually, I ME MINE wasn't even long enough and had to be stitched together.
It's a great song. I believe that George was going for a BAND sound ( as in THE Band). I like this version where they have the layered vocals on the chorus, ala the vocals on THE WEIGHT.
|
|
|
Post by mikev on Apr 13, 2014 7:41:44 GMT -5
Why does legend have it that John and Paul REJECTED the song? Bootlegs show Paul "all over" George's songs toward the end. John was either with Yoko, or just didn't give a crap. George was in a very bad mindset as far as being a Beatle, and may well have not pushed so hard. The reason the song didn't get onto the LET IT BE album is probably that there simply wasn't a decent recording of it to work with. Maybe it's Spector's fault the song didn't make the cut. Actually, I ME MINE wasn't even long enough and had to be stitched together. It's a great song. I believe that George was going for a BAND sound ( as in THE Band). I like this version where they have the layered vocals on the chorus, ala the vocals on THE WEIGHT. Spector had nothing to do with it. He was only handed the 8 track reels, not the nagra reels. Neither ATMP or I Me Mine were tracked. They only went back to I Me Mine in 1970 because the rehearsal was featured in the movie. Now, if Spector was handed the reel with George's studio demo (the Anthology one, not the LIMW one), that could have been cool if he orchestrated it back then. Might have come out similar to Across the Universe. I agree that in listening to the tapes, Paul seemed to be into it. Just before they went to lunch, Paul bragged that he had his bass part down. Maybe its fate was decided over lunch.
|
|
|
Post by pisces on Apr 13, 2014 8:15:12 GMT -5
Was the song All Things Must Pass actually rejected by John and Paul for the Get Back/Let It Be and Abbey Road albums, or did George just pull it back from consideration to save for his solo album? Hi I'm new so I hope you won't mind me adding my five cents... I have a transcript of the get back sessions audio - and right after what turned out to be the last run through of ATMP there was the following exchange. Paul: Do you wan to run through it again George? George: No not really.So I guess George made the call to stop working on it. He never bought it up with the group again. As for George not being able to tell Paul he didn't like the harmony he was singing, unlikely tbh as George was very forthright with Paul and let him know he was annoyed or didn't like something with no problem. George was no pushover he stood up for himself just fine. Also George asked that they not play any of his songs on the roof and so his wishes were respected. George didn't want to do the concert on the roof at all. He went along with it because John, Paul and eventually Ringo wanted to but you can hear him state on Let it be that he didn't want too really. Here is the exchange from the Get Back sessions where Paul really tries to convince George to include his songs George: “Really, I don’t want to [do] any of my songs on the show, because they just turn out shitty, ” he says. “They come out like a compromise. Whereas in a studio, then you can work on them till you get them how you want them.”
(So for a live show, George just wants to be the band’s lead guitarist, nothing more. Paul, audibly unhappy at that remark, is having none of it, still believing in The Beatles.) Paul: Last year, you were telling me that ‘You can do anything that you want, Paul, anything you desire.’ … But you’re saying before the show is finished, and before we’ve done it … letting forth this word of, ‘They’re going to come out a compromise.’ …
I really think we’re very good, and … if we think that we want to do these songs great, we can just do it great. Thinking it’s not going to come out great, you know, that is like meditation. Where you just get into a bummer, and so that's how you come at it, you don’t go through it."
George wasn't persuaded though and his songs weren't part of the rooftop concert.
|
|
lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
Posts: 2,776
|
Post by lowbasso on Apr 13, 2014 11:36:06 GMT -5
So what was Eric's reasoning for telling Paul to do this song in 2002 at the memorial concert? Just that the lyrics were appropriate? I know Eric was in charge of getting the concert together. But you have to admit he has balls telling Paul what he wants him to play at it. Why does Paul finally agree to take a stab at it with very little preparation and rehearsal? Again the lyrics? Or is it Paul's favorite song of George's? Or did he think The Beatles really should have taken more time to finish the song back in the 60's? Maybe he really did like the song, wished it had been on a Beatles album, so he did it out of respect for his Fab Brother.
This was the most emotional moment at that concert for sure, for many reasons.
OK, this is freaky.....
I had my Ipod on playing randomly about 200 songs in "My Top Rated" Category while I was typing the words above. As soon as I finished this thread and posted it, my Ipod choose that moment to randomly start playing Paul's version of the song ATMP from The Concert For George........
Thanks George........Did I guess right?......
|
|