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Post by coachbk on Jun 13, 2015 20:49:22 GMT -5
I liked the song Woman when it first came out, but it was never one of my very favorites. It seemed a little too overproduced. But today it came on my i-pod and I found John's vocal and lyrics to be so sincere. He really meant what he was singing and of course the tragedy that followed made the impact even more profound. I found myself getting really teary and thinking about my own life and how lucky I am to still be married to the same woman coming up on 34 years. Perhaps it means more to me today. I was just 22 when the song first came out and marriage was 6 months away. Anyway the song really struck my emotions strongly and I wanted to share that on here.
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Post by stavros on Jun 14, 2015 17:46:28 GMT -5
Yes it's a great Lennon love song. If I recall John referred to it as "the Beatle Song" in one of his last interviews. I have a feeling it was the BBC radio interview with Andy Peebles but I could be wrong. I often felt John was somewhat stifled and suppressed by Yoko during the latter years of the 1960s and through the 1970s. She often cut across him in interviews or even answered for him. Almost like she wanted him to stay away from his Beatle pals for some reason. At least that was the impression I had. But a few years ago I listened to his 1980 interviews and he actually seemed to have mellowed a lot. He was more relaxed and seemed to have even come to terms with the fact that he could never get away from being a Beatle. John was in a very good place in 1980. It seems like "Woman" is his celebration at finally reaching that place. Perhaps "Girl" is his first open, conscious meanderings about his personal relationships. "Don't Let Me Down" explores the nervous, uncertainty about the future with Yoko? "Woman" reaches the point where he has found what he was looking for? Maybe "Woman" also contained apologies to Cynthia in there as well. That's the great thing about music. We can all interpret it in different ways. But I do think "Woman" is up there with all of the great love songs John ever wrote.
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Post by winstonoboogie on Jun 14, 2015 20:24:20 GMT -5
Yes it's a great Lennon love song. If I recall John referred to it as "the Beatle Song" in one of his last interviews. I have a feeling it was the BBC radio interview with Andy Peebles but I could be wrong. I often felt John was somewhat stifled and suppressed by Yoko during the latter years of the 1960s and through the 1970s. She often cut across him in interviews or even answered for him. Almost like she wanted him to stay away from his Beatle pals for some reason. At least that was the impression I had. But a few years ago I listened to his 1980 interviews and he actually seemed to have mellowed a lot. He was more relaxed and seemed to have even come to terms with the fact that he could never get away from being a Beatle. John was in a very good place in 1980. It seems like "Woman" is his celebration at finally reaching that place. Perhaps "Girl" is his first open, conscious meanderings about his personal relationships. "Don't Let Me Down" explores the nervous, uncertainty about the future with Yoko? "Woman" reaches the point where he has found what he was looking for? Maybe "Woman" also contained apologies to Cynthia in there as well. That's the great thing about music. We can all interpret it in different ways. But I do think "Woman" is up there with all of the great love songs John ever wrote. Thanks, Stavros! Who are the two people behind John and Yoko? Is that Andy Peebles?
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Post by stavros on Jun 15, 2015 18:51:29 GMT -5
To be honest I have no idea who the lady behind Yoko is. Maybe someone else can help on that one?
But, yes, Andy Peebles is the guy standing behind John.
I actually remember listening to some of this interview way back when it was first broadcast in the Christmas holiday period of 1980/1981. I was still a school kid at the time and the significance of it was probably lost on me.
Listening to it in the 21st century it's actually quite an eye opener on how times and viewpoints change. I also suspect my views on Yoko speaking out had perhaps mellowed because I think she added some interesting points in the interview.
So for anyone who wants to give it a listen here are the full two hours of John's last interview for the BBC. Back in 1980/81 it was also accompanied by his classic tracks. Here it is just the interview.
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Post by John S. Damm on Jun 16, 2015 10:45:30 GMT -5
"Woman" is a great song! Back in late 1980, the kids at my rural high school were not too keen on "Starting Over" because of the retro-1950's groove of it(which is what endears it to many of us and on the "Stripped" version we hear John dedicate it to his 1950's Rock and Roll heroes).
But "Woman" was huge with my peers, particularly the girls. I remember driving around one cold, early January 1981 night in Hanna, Indiana with a female classmate and "Woman" came on the radio, WLS Chicago. My companion said how she loved this song and how horrible it was that John had been murdered and she wasn't even a Beatles' fan! She started to tear-up to my dismay so naturally I had to comfort her and how does a high school boy do that, by parking the car in the first farmer's lane and start making out!
I remember thinking John Lennon might have gotten a kick out of that, as long as I was respectful to her! That is the point of the song!
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Jun 16, 2015 10:49:14 GMT -5
"Woman" is a great song! Back in late 1980, the kids at my rural high school were not too keen on "Starting Over" because of the retro-1950's groove of it(which is what endears it to many of us and on the "Stripped" version we hear John dedicate it to his 1950's Rock and Roll heroes). But "Woman" was huge with my peers, particularly the girls. I remember driving around one cold, early January 1981 night in Hanna, Indiana with a female classmate and "Woman" came on the radio, WLS Chicago. My companion said how she loved this song and how horrible it was that John had been murdered and she wasn't even a Beatles' fan! She started to tear-up to my dismay so naturally I had to comfort her and how does a high school boy do that, by parking the car in the first farmer's lane and start making out! I remember thinking John Lennon might have gotten a kick out of that, as long as I was respectful to her! That is the point of the song! But how "respectful" was John to his high school girlfriends?? Scenes from "Nowhere Boy" for example...
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Post by John S. Damm on Jun 16, 2015 11:10:42 GMT -5
"Woman" is a great song! Back in late 1980, the kids at my rural high school were not too keen on "Starting Over" because of the retro-1950's groove of it(which is what endears it to many of us and on the "Stripped" version we hear John dedicate it to his 1950's Rock and Roll heroes). But "Woman" was huge with my peers, particularly the girls. I remember driving around one cold, early January 1981 night in Hanna, Indiana with a female classmate and "Woman" came on the radio, WLS Chicago. My companion said how she loved this song and how horrible it was that John had been murdered and she wasn't even a Beatles' fan! She started to tear-up to my dismay so naturally I had to comfort her and how does a high school boy do that, by parking the car in the first farmer's lane and start making out! I remember thinking John Lennon might have gotten a kick out of that, as long as I was respectful to her! That is the point of the song! But how "respectful" was John to his high school girlfriends?? Scenes from "Nowhere Boy" for example... No question about that lowbasso! He was horrible back then. He was horrible Election Night 1972 when he shagged a woman in the next room where Yoko was! But he was getting better all the time about women(he couldn't get much worse). I sincerely mean that. He said in his later interviews how he regretted his behavior towards women. Now days every celebrity is forgiven his or her sins no matter how bad but not John Lennon on this issue. He was human and his imperfections coupled with his songs are what cause us mere mortals to relate to him. We can't all be perfect! BTW, I know you were not fully condemning him lowbasso and you have a valid point about his youth. In my case mentioned above, I stopped when I was asked to stop. I was no early John Lennon or Paul McCartney for that matter!
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Post by Joe Karlosi on Jun 16, 2015 11:22:24 GMT -5
No question about that lowbasso! He was horrible back then. He was horrible Election Night 1972 when he shagged a woman in the next room where Yoko was! But he was getting better all the time about women(he couldn't get much worse). I sincerely mean that. He said in his later interviews how he regretted his behavior towards women. Now days every celebrity is forgiven his or her sins no matter how bad but not John Lennon on this issue. He was human and his imperfections coupled with his songs are what cause us mere mortals to relate to him. We can't all be perfect! BTW, I know you were not fully condemning him lowbasso and you have a valid point about his youth. Your post is spot on, JSD! Thanks for stepping forward to defend John while so few are willing to do this anymore, these days. Poor John Lennon is forgotten and he's been reduced to a nasty, woman-beating misogynist in the eyes of so many today. Lowbasso's post was not fully condemning John, no... but what was the point in mentioning what Lennon did from his youth? The main thing is that when we're talking about the song "Woman", we celebrate Lennon as coming full-circle and learning from his errors of his past. He is now praising not only Yoko in this song, but also paying tribute to "all women" (as John himself described his intentions in the song at that time). It is a retribution and a redemption. I didn't appreciate "Woman" as much when DF first came out. I was only 18 and it was rather sappy. But these days I see it as a wonderful homage to women of all kinds, and a real sign of growth for Lennon.
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Post by Panther on Jun 16, 2015 18:07:53 GMT -5
I am glad that John wrote the 'Double Fantasy' songs in 1978-1980, whatever, and that he properly recorded (if slightly overproduced) them. They're very important to his legacy, because, as mentioned, they show him hitting middle-age with contentment and becoming very different kind of person, so it seems, from anytime before. The impression you have is that he found himself, finally, after many years of being a bit lost.
'Woman' is a brilliant song that would be the global #1 hit if released by any major artist today, in an era when (a) songwriters can't write good melodies anymore, and (b) praising a woman for being feminine isn't 'weird' or too edgy. It's harmonically very, very strong and proves (as do a few more 1980 tracks) that John could write melodies with the best of them and could rival McCartney at it, when he was motivated and focused to do so -- the latter being extremely rare after about 1965.
John remains an enigmatic talent. He clearly was brilliant creatively and was a 'visionary', if that doesn't sound too precious. But what did he do, specifically, that was uniquely brilliant? It's hard to say. His songwriting could be at the very highest level, but also seemed listless and uninspired at times; at the very least he was inconsistent. As a musician, opinions vary, but he certainly wasn't a virtuoso. He wasn't a craftsman at all, like George with his solo records or Paul in the studio. He was a great singer for sure, but even there he seemed to lose something after about 1972 (maybe because of years of not touring). Anyway, 'Woman' is craftsmanlike John and melodic-John at his very best.
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lowbasso
A Hard Day's Knight
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Post by lowbasso on Jun 16, 2015 20:34:56 GMT -5
No question about that lowbasso! He was horrible back then. He was horrible Election Night 1972 when he shagged a woman in the next room where Yoko was! But he was getting better all the time about women(he couldn't get much worse). I sincerely mean that. He said in his later interviews how he regretted his behavior towards women. Now days every celebrity is forgiven his or her sins no matter how bad but not John Lennon on this issue. He was human and his imperfections coupled with his songs are what cause us mere mortals to relate to him. We can't all be perfect! BTW, I know you were not fully condemning him lowbasso and you have a valid point about his youth. Your post is spot on, JSD! Thanks for stepping forward to defend John while so few are willing to do this anymore, these days. Poor John Lennon is forgotten and he's been reduced to a nasty, woman-beating misogynist in the eyes of so many today. Lowbasso's post was not fully condemning John, no... but what was the point in mentioning what Lennon did from his youth? The main thing is that when we're talking about the song "Woman", we celebrate Lennon as coming full-circle and learning from his errors of his past. He is now praising not only Yoko in this song, but also paying tribute to "all women" (as John himself described his intentions in the song at that time). It is a retribution and a redemption. I didn't appreciate "Woman" as much when DF first came out. I was only 18 and it was rather sappy. But these days I see it as a wonderful homage to women of all kinds, and a real sign of growth for Lennon. John was no worse than many teenage youths when it came to girls. Agree he finally reached adulthood just before he was snatched from us all. All his songs on Double Fantasy reflect a mature musician who reached a level he hadn't ever seen previously in his crazy life. All the more tragic that we never saw that man take his polished talents back to his ol' Liverpool mates and see what could have transpired in a middle-aged reunion of The Beatles with a whole new perspective brought to brand new material conceived and recorded by the Fabs. A middle-aged Beatle recording period could have been something none of us could even imagine in our wildest dreams.
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Post by debjorgo on Jun 16, 2015 22:24:44 GMT -5
I never did like Woman. I felt sort of guilty with him being shot but as he says at the beginning "For the other half of the sky". A softer, romantic song the ladies would like. That was more so then, than it is now. I've met quite a few ladies that like the harder stuff (drinks included).
I didn't like the whole starting over/doo wop (or is it a waltz?) thing with (Just Like) Starting Over. I was barely finding the cash for Wings' albums at the time. I didn't buy Double Fantasy until after John was gone.
I did surprisingly find, in general, I liked the Yoko songs better. Cleanup Time was good until he got to the "Cleanup time" lyric. I liked I'm Losing You but it was a little slow. I believe I recognized Beautiful Boy (Darling Boys) as the masterpiece it is right away. I took an early liking to Watching the Wheels as well, although I don't think I appreciated it then as much as I do now. It may be top ten Lennon for me(Beatles songs included). There is your great after 1972 Lennon vocals. Dear Yoko was son of Oh Yoko, okay but not rockin'.
I was very glad that Milk and Honey was released. To me, the Lennon songs are much better on it. But that's another thread.
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Post by vectisfabber on Jun 17, 2015 4:05:43 GMT -5
I loved Woman then, love it now. A gorgeous song.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 5:48:58 GMT -5
I loved Woman then, love it now. A gorgeous song. I concur.
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markc
Very Clean
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Post by markc on Jun 17, 2015 9:45:28 GMT -5
Did he take the guitar opening from Thinking of Linking? When the Three played it in Anthology, the beginning reminded me of the start of Woman.
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Post by debjorgo on Jun 17, 2015 18:13:08 GMT -5
It sounds a little like Woman, one of the songs Paul wrote for Peter and Gordon.
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