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Post by John S. Damm on Aug 22, 2008 21:32:24 GMT -5
On the new Glen Campbell album, Meet Glen Campbell, there is a moving cover of "Grow Old With Me."
Having bought this album last night, I scanned the liner notes and to my horror saw that the songwriting credit for "Grow Old With Me" is "John Lennon-Yoko Ono"!?
Not believing my eyes or trusting my memory, I grabbed the digitally remastred Milk And Honey and GOWM is clearly credited to John only. WTF!
Is Yoko claiming co-writing credits on John's songs now or was this a mistake? Will Yoko Ono be added to the songwriting credits for "Mind Games" or "Whatever Gets You Through The Night?"
I call upon Steve Marinucci to summon his contacts to see if this is a power grab by Ms. Ono or a screw up by Campbell's people, although he is back on Capitol Records.
Yoko Ono did not co-write "Grow Old With Me," damnit!
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Aug 22, 2008 22:20:32 GMT -5
On the new Glen Campbell album, Meet Glen Campbell, there is a moving cover of "Grow Old With Me." Having bought this album last night, I scanned the liner notes and to my horror saw that the songwriting credit for "Grow Old With Me" is "John Lennon-Yoko Ono"!? Not believing my eyes or trusting my memory, I grabbed the digitally remastred Milk And Honey and GOWM is clearly credited to John only. WTF! Is Yoko claiming co-writing credits on John's songs now or was this a mistake? Will Yoko Ono be added to the songwriting credits for "Mind Games" or "Whatever Gets You Through The Night?" I call upon Steve Marinucci to summon his contacts to see if this is a power grab by Ms. Ono or a screw up by Campbell's people, although he is back on Capitol Records. Yoko Ono did not co-write "Grow Old With Me," damnit! Yup, the BMI Song Index lists Lennon as the composer, but Lenono Music as the publisher, which isn't the same thing. Is that what you saw? In any event, I sent a note about it. We'll see what comes back. steve
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Post by John S. Damm on Aug 22, 2008 23:08:49 GMT -5
On the new Glen Campbell album, Meet Glen Campbell, there is a moving cover of "Grow Old With Me." Having bought this album last night, I scanned the liner notes and to my horror saw that the songwriting credit for "Grow Old With Me" is "John Lennon-Yoko Ono"!? Not believing my eyes or trusting my memory, I grabbed the digitally remastred Milk And Honey and GOWM is clearly credited to John only. WTF! Is Yoko claiming co-writing credits on John's songs now or was this a mistake? Will Yoko Ono be added to the songwriting credits for "Mind Games" or "Whatever Gets You Through The Night?" I call upon Steve Marinucci to summon his contacts to see if this is a power grab by Ms. Ono or a screw up by Campbell's people, although he is back on Capitol Records. Yoko Ono did not co-write "Grow Old With Me," damnit! Yup, the BMI Song Index lists Lennon as the composer, but Lenono Music as the publisher, which isn't the same thing. Is that what you saw? In any event, I sent a note about it. We'll see what comes back. steve Thanks Steve! Maybe this budding controversy will be squelched. No, Glen Campbell's album has Yoko on the songwriting credits. It has "Grow Old With Me" John Lennon-Yoko Ono If Yoko is adding herself to the songwriting credits, there will be riots in the streets. The Paul McCartney "Fatso Controversy" will instantly become yesterday's news. I am reserving judgment on this highly explosive situation until we possess more information.
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Post by mikev on Aug 22, 2008 23:30:12 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but John's song was influenced by a Yoko song and some poetry they both loved. I guess she decided to give herself credit. Maybe she figured he plageried her after all of this time.
Since she only released a demo-who knows-John may have wanted her to take a co-writing credit.
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Joseph McCabe
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A rebel to his last breath ...
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Aug 22, 2008 23:55:48 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but John's song was influenced by a Yoko song and some poetry they both loved. I guess she decided to give herself credit. Maybe she figured he plageried her after all of this time. I'd agree with this. The poetry mikev refers to was by Robert Browning (Grow Old ...) and Let Me Count The Ways (Elizabeth Barrett Browning). Definitely a Lennon-Ono-Browning-Browning effort! While we're at it, let's plug for some more Ono credit. "Because" lyrics reek of Yoko's style. "Imagine" always sounded like a set of Yoko slogans to my ears.
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Post by sayne on Aug 23, 2008 2:09:25 GMT -5
. . . Having bought this album last night, I scanned the liner notes and to my horror saw that the songwriting credit for "Grow Old With Me" is "John Lennon-Yoko Ono"!? . . . Yoko Ono did not co-write "Grow Old With Me," damnit! JohnS, don't be so upset. If they end up changing it, you have a collectors' item on your hands. Everybody sing . . . "always look on the bright side of life".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2008 4:29:44 GMT -5
In any case,only a very small number of people will actually see this example of Yoko making herself more important to Johns music than she was.......
JSD might be the only person who buys this album......
Glen Campbell,,,,,,i haven't heard of him for an eon and a half..... ;D
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Post by OldFred on Aug 23, 2008 5:31:32 GMT -5
Remember that Yoko also inserted herself in the credits of 'Give Peace A Chance'. Originally it was credited to 'Lennon/McCartney', a bone John gave to Paul when Paul helped out in the making of 'The Ballad Of John & Yoko'. The current credits lists Yoko as a co-writer. This is mindful of the sad fact that the Badfinger song 'Without You' which was written by Peter Ham and Mike Evans is now credited to the rest of the band and their manager, a very controversial move since they had no hand whatsoever in writing the song. It's another sad example of Evans and Ham getting screwed by the music industry that basically led to them taking their own lives.
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Post by winstonoboogie on Aug 23, 2008 11:41:07 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but John's song was influenced by a Yoko song and some poetry they both loved. I guess she decided to give herself credit. Maybe she figured he plageried her after all of this time. I'd agree with this. The poetry mikev refers to was by Robert Browning (Grow Old ...) and Let Me Count The Ways (Elizabeth Barrett Browning). Definitely a Lennon-Ono-Browning-Browning effort! While we're at it, let's plug for some more Ono credit. "Because" lyrics reek of Yoko's style. "Imagine" always sounded like a set of Yoko slogans to my ears. I mentioned something similar in the other thread before I saw this. So I wasn't trying to "steal your thunder", as it were, Mr. McCabe.
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Post by John S. Damm on Aug 23, 2008 11:57:24 GMT -5
Remember that Yoko also inserted herself in the credits of 'Give Peace A Chance'. Originally it was credited to 'Lennon/McCartney', a bone John gave to Paul when Paul helped out in the making of 'The Ballad Of John & Yoko'. The current credits lists Yoko as a co-writer. Whoa! I knew McCartney had been removed but I didn't know Ono was added to GPAC. I am suddenly warming to Paul's now abandoned position of switching "his" Beatles' songs to "McCartney/Lennon" or removing Lennon altogether on ones John had no imput on. I hear Joseph McCabe on "Imagine" as John himself is quoted as saying that Yoko should have gotten a songwriting credit for some of the lyrics but John and Yoko were always very clear that while Double Fantasy was a joint album, a John and Yoko record, the songs were by one or the other. Same with all the other songs from that session. Just look at the credits on DF or the subsequent Milk and Honey to see that while the Lenono's were very democratic, a John song then a Yoko song, the songwriting credits were separate. If Yoko is saying, "Well I'm just correcting the record, to make the songwriting credits accurate to fit who really helped write these songs as I helped on GPAC and 'Grow Old With Me'," then she was really hypocritical to say no to Paul when he wanted to do the same on the Beatles' songs, make the songwriting credits more accurate. My problem is, John is not able to say whether it is okay for McCartney to be removed from GPAC and Yoko added or Yoko added to Grow Old With Me. Things will get real suspicious if Yoko's name appears on the songwriting credits to "Surprise, Surprise (Sweet Bird of Paradox)." With John gone, I don't want any changes to Lennon/McCartney or just John Lennon songwriting credits.
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Post by OldFred on Aug 23, 2008 16:04:41 GMT -5
It all comes down to following the money. It's a cinch that more comes in from the royalties of John's songs than Yoko's. I don't hear too many covers of 'Kiss, Kiss, Kiss' or 'I'm Your Angel', which in itself pinched the melody of the song 'Makin' Whoopie' by Gus Kahn.
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Joseph McCabe
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A rebel to his last breath ...
Posts: 912
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Post by Joseph McCabe on Aug 23, 2008 18:53:04 GMT -5
I mentioned something similar in the other thread before I saw this. So I wasn't trying to "steal your thunder", as it were, Mr. McCabe. And I didn't think you were, Dr O'Boogie. ...
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Post by mikev on Aug 23, 2008 19:39:34 GMT -5
One last reason why the Threetles should have rercorded Grow Old With Me scored by George Martin-not only would it have been a poignant albeit ironic ending to the Beatles final recording session, it would have reflected their other final song (not counting I Me Mine)-Golden Slumbers, in which Paul too took lyrics from someone else's poetry.
I know I'm pushing it, but I really really wish they put something on record for this-nothing against Mary Chapin Carpenter.
George Martin's score is a tease for what could have been, even down to the McCartneyesque bass line.
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Post by winstonoboogie on Aug 23, 2008 20:07:27 GMT -5
I mentioned something similar in the other thread before I saw this. So I wasn't trying to "steal your thunder", as it were, Mr. McCabe. And I didn't think you were, Dr O'Boogie. ... OK. So we're on the same page.
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Post by John S. Damm on Aug 25, 2008 0:10:48 GMT -5
Maybe sayne is right and I am holding a valuable collector's item for erroneously listing Yoko on the songwriting credits with John to "Grow Old With Me." The "Meet Glen Campbell" website lists the song as written by just John. meetglencampbell.com/I am going to give notice at work and seek my buyout as I am holding my ticket to a happy retirement.
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Post by mrjinks on Aug 25, 2008 17:41:49 GMT -5
Remember that Yoko also inserted herself in the credits of 'Give Peace A Chance'. Originally it was credited to 'Lennon/McCartney', a bone John gave to Paul when Paul helped out in the making of 'The Ballad Of John & Yoko'. The current credits lists Yoko as a co-writer. Just curious, on which current release is Yoko listed as a co-writer?
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Post by OldFred on Aug 25, 2008 18:11:52 GMT -5
Remember that Yoko also inserted herself in the credits of 'Give Peace A Chance'. Originally it was credited to 'Lennon/McCartney', a bone John gave to Paul when Paul helped out in the making of 'The Ballad Of John & Yoko'. The current credits lists Yoko as a co-writer. Just curious, on which current release is Yoko listed as a co-writer? 'Meet Glen Campbell', Glen Campbell's new CD where he covers Green Day, Tom Petty, Lou Reed, U2 and John Lennon's 'Grow Old With Me'. In the credits of the song Yoko is listed as a co-writer, though in the original release of the song on the 'Milk and Honey' album, only John is listed as the writer. You'll find more about Campbell's new CD at this post: abbeyrd.proboards83.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=187
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Post by mrjinks on Aug 26, 2008 12:54:12 GMT -5
Sorry, but the message I quoted was you saying Yoko inserted herself into the credits for "Give Peace A Chance". That's what I'm asking for. I have never seen Yoko listed as a co-writer for that song.
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Post by OldFred on Aug 26, 2008 16:37:25 GMT -5
Sorry, but the message I quoted was you saying Yoko inserted herself into the credits for "Give Peace A Chance". That's what I'm asking for. I have never seen Yoko listed as a co-writer for that song. When a new version of 'Give Peace A Chance' was recorded and released in 1991 with the Peace Choir with many different artists like Peter Gabriel, Michael McDonald, Adam Ant, Yoko and Sean among others singing some new lyrics, Yoko was listed as a co-writer. Sean and Lenny Kravitz, who co-produced the track, may have had a hand in the new lyrics too. (Steve, is it possible to confirm this?)
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Aug 26, 2008 17:56:48 GMT -5
Sorry, but the message I quoted was you saying Yoko inserted herself into the credits for "Give Peace A Chance". That's what I'm asking for. I have never seen Yoko listed as a co-writer for that song. When a new version of 'Give Peace A Chance' was recorded and released in 1991 with the Peace Choir with many different artists like Peter Gabriel, Michael McDonald, Adam Ant, Yoko and Sean among others singing some new lyrics, Yoko was listed as a co-writer. Sean and Lenny Kravitz, who co-produced the track, may have had a hand in the new lyrics too. (Steve, is it possible to confirm this?) Confirm which part, Fred?
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Post by OldFred on Aug 26, 2008 18:01:50 GMT -5
When a new version of 'Give Peace A Chance' was recorded and released in 1991 with the Peace Choir with many different artists like Peter Gabriel, Michael McDonald, Adam Ant, Yoko and Sean among others singing some new lyrics, Yoko was listed as a co-writer. Sean and Lenny Kravitz, who co-produced the track, may have had a hand in the new lyrics too. (Steve, is it possible to confirm this?) Confirm which part, Fred? If Yoko listed herself as a co-writer on the 91' version of 'Give Peace A Chance' and if Sean and Lenny Kravitz may have co-written it as well. I recall that there was a big to-do at the time about her adding herself as a co-writer on the song.
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Post by Steve Marinucci on Aug 26, 2008 19:57:38 GMT -5
Confirm which part, Fred? If Yoko listed herself as a co-writer on the 91' version of 'Give Peace A Chance' and if Sean and Lenny Kravitz may have co-written it as well. I recall that there was a big to-do at the time about her adding herself as a co-writer on the song. According to this link, Sean is: www.secondhandsongs.com/cgi/song-show.php?theme_id=4&id=70663
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Post by OldFred on Aug 26, 2008 21:01:30 GMT -5
If Yoko listed herself as a co-writer on the 91' version of 'Give Peace A Chance' and if Sean and Lenny Kravitz may have co-written it as well. I recall that there was a big to-do at the time about her adding herself as a co-writer on the song. According to this link, Sean is: www.secondhandsongs.com/cgi/song-show.php?theme_id=4&id=70663If that's the case then I correct myself as I thought Yoko had credited herself on the song. I just remember hearing at some point that Yoko had put herself as a co-writer. I still want to go on record in saying that even though he didn't have a hand in writing the song, I think it was wrong and small of Yoko to remove McCartney's credit from 'Give Peace A Chance' when John magnanimously gave Paul the credit as a thank you for helping him with 'The Ballad of John & Yoko'.
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Post by mrjinks on Aug 27, 2008 12:23:42 GMT -5
If that's the case then I correct myself as I thought Yoko had credited herself on the song. I just remember hearing at some point that Yoko had put herself as a co-writer. I still want to go on record in saying that even though he didn't have a hand in writing the song, I think it was wrong and small of Yoko to remove McCartney's credit from 'Give Peace A Chance' when John magnanimously gave Paul the credit as a thank you for helping him with 'The Ballad of John & Yoko'. I whole-heartedly agree with you about the removal of Macca from the GPAC credits - it was a petty thing to do, and I wish some interviewer would ask her about it... I also did some searching on the "Peace Choir" item you referenced, trying to find detailed photos of the release, with limited success. I saw a promo on ebay with a sticker that says "new lyrics by Sean Ono Lennon, music by John Lennon and Yoko Ono". While this would seem to support your assertion that she "inserted herself" into the credits, in my opinion, this was probably just careless research by whomever was responsible for putting the release together. GPAC has shown up on many releases since 1991 (Legend; The John Lennon Anthology; Working Class Hero; Peace, Love & Truth; The US vs John Lennon); none of those list Yoko as a co-writer. Again, it's all just guesswork, but I suspect this (and the Glen Campbell issue) are just sloppy research by someone, and not a sinister attempt by Yoko to claim writing credit years after the fact. Otherwise, wouldn't she have shown up in the above releases?
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Post by OldFred on Aug 27, 2008 16:39:50 GMT -5
If that's the case then I correct myself as I thought Yoko had credited herself on the song. I just remember hearing at some point that Yoko had put herself as a co-writer. I still want to go on record in saying that even though he didn't have a hand in writing the song, I think it was wrong and small of Yoko to remove McCartney's credit from 'Give Peace A Chance' when John magnanimously gave Paul the credit as a thank you for helping him with 'The Ballad of John & Yoko'. I whole-heartedly agree with you about the removal of Macca from the GPAC credits - it was a petty thing to do, and I wish some interviewer would ask her about it... I also did some searching on the "Peace Choir" item you referenced, trying to find detailed photos of the release, with limited success. I saw a promo on ebay with a sticker that says "new lyrics by Sean Ono Lennon, music by John Lennon and Yoko Ono". While this would seem to support your assertion that she "inserted herself" into the credits, in my opinion, this was probably just careless research by whomever was responsible for putting the release together. GPAC has shown up on many releases since 1991 (Legend; The John Lennon Anthology; Working Class Hero; Peace, Love & Truth; The US vs John Lennon); none of those list Yoko as a co-writer. Again, it's all just guesswork, but I suspect this (and the Glen Campbell issue) are just sloppy research by someone, and not a sinister attempt by Yoko to claim writing credit years after the fact. Otherwise, wouldn't she have shown up in the above releases? I have the cassette of the '91 version of GPAC. Surprisingly, there are no writer's credits on it, even for John. Regarding the credit on the Glen Campbell CD, they would have gotten the credit info from the publisher, so there's still a question of whether Yoko has added herself as a co-writer of 'Grow Old With Me'.
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Post by vectisfabber on Aug 27, 2008 18:18:25 GMT -5
Again, it's all just guesswork, but I suspect this (and the Glen Campbell issue) are just sloppy research by someone, and not a sinister attempt by Yoko to claim writing credit years after the fact. I think you're probably right. Sheds a bit of light, albeit from an oblique angle, on McCartney's wish to see the credits reversed on his main songs, though, doesn't it?
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Post by winstonoboogie on Aug 27, 2008 19:31:40 GMT -5
If that's the case then I correct myself as I thought Yoko had credited herself on the song. I just remember hearing at some point that Yoko had put herself as a co-writer. I still want to go on record in saying that even though he didn't have a hand in writing the song, I think it was wrong and small of Yoko to remove McCartney's credit from 'Give Peace A Chance' when John magnanimously gave Paul the credit as a thank you for helping him with 'The Ballad of John & Yoko'. I whole-heartedly agree with you about the removal of Macca from the GPAC credits - it was a petty thing to do, and I wish some interviewer would ask her about it... Dream on.... That's as likely as someone asking Paul about buying up Northern Songs shares or whether he really abused Linda.
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Post by jimc on Aug 28, 2008 8:02:28 GMT -5
I remember reading at some point that McCartney had no problem with the removal of his name from Give Peace a Chance. I don't if it was way of saying, let's set the record straight, or what, or if it was a trade of good will for current or future considerations...
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Aug 28, 2008 11:11:52 GMT -5
Aug 23, 2008, 12:30am, mikev wrote:I hate to say it, but John's song was influenced by a Yoko song and some poetry they both loved. I guess she decided to give herself credit. Maybe she figured he plageried her after all of this time.
Joseph McCabe wrote: I'd agree with this. The poetry mikev refers to was by Robert Browning (Grow Old ...) and Let Me Count The Ways (Elizabeth Barrett Browning). Definitely a Lennon-Ono-Browning-Browning effort!
While we're at it, let's plug for some more Ono credit. "Because" lyrics reek of Yoko's style. "Imagine" always sounded like a set of Yoko slogans to my ears.
RTP writes: This is ridiculous. How does Ono get credit for the Brownings poetry? John clearly used THEIR poetry as an inspiration. Ono has no involvement even if she turned John on to the poem. Where is there evidence she helped write the melody? As far as Because, the lyrics are pure John. Even with a slight nod to Yoko's style, she in no way deserves writing credit. If John thought she deserved credit on Imagine, he would have given it to her.
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Post by ReturnToPepperland on Aug 28, 2008 11:21:26 GMT -5
If that's the case then I correct myself as I thought Yoko had credited herself on the song. I just remember hearing at some point that Yoko had put herself as a co-writer. I still want to go on record in saying that even though he didn't have a hand in writing the song, I think it was wrong and small of Yoko to remove McCartney's credit from 'Give Peace A Chance' when John magnanimously gave Paul the credit as a thank you for helping him with 'The Ballad of John & Yoko'. I whole-heartedly agree with you about the removal of Macca from the GPAC credits - it was a petty thing to do, and I wish some interviewer would ask her about it... I also did some searching on the "Peace Choir" item you referenced, trying to find detailed photos of the release, with limited success. I saw a promo on ebay with a sticker that says "new lyrics by Sean Ono Lennon, music by John Lennon and Yoko Ono". Again, it's all just guesswork, but I suspect this (and the Glen Campbell issue) are just sloppy research by someone, and not a sinister attempt by Yoko to claim writing credit years after the fact. Otherwise, wouldn't she have shown up in the above releases? Its not sloppy research regarding the Campbell album or the sticker on the '91 release of GPAC. The songwriting credit comes from the publisher. How would someone just randomly or by accident add Yoko's name to a song which was credited to John in the first place. If they are that ignorant about the history of the song, how would they have just happened to add Yoko's name? As far as the sticker, that was Yoko's way of getting credit without officially changing the credits. Believe me, it was carefully orchestrated. It was not a random mistake. Yoko always pays attention to the smallest details.
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